Wouldn't Molly have fun. One thing she can't stand is cats. Unfortunately, most of them are bigger than she is and would kill her if she got close enough. Nightmare if we were out there with them prowling around at night. I'd get no sleep.
msg said
08:14 PM Apr 30, 2013
Sorry, this is s serious issue. Feral cats and dogs are a menace. Saw a few dogs hanging from trees after they had been shot. It was quite confronting. But the one thing I noticed was they were huge. Wouldn't like to come across one in the dark. What can you do with them other than trap and kill.
herbie said
08:25 PM Apr 30, 2013
This is just not a problem re dogs ,the outback is also getting over run with goats,since the goverment slashed these jobs from people who used to trap/control all these feral animals. The farmers around Geraldton in WA were up in arms regarding the damage Emu's were doing to theie crops ,while we were staying there.
GaryKelly said
11:31 PM Apr 30, 2013
What a shame. Pity most voters live in cities. They wouldn't have a clue what's going on out in the bush. Good on the ABC for bringing it to public attention, but it needs more than that. Maybe travelling GNs can make their voices heard more loudly.
Santa said
01:30 AM May 1, 2013
The rise in feral animals has risen to plague proportions ever since the the govt decided to demonize those who even think of owning a firearm.
It once was that every farmer/station owner had a rifle in his vehicle as a tool of trade, now it's simply too hard.
The problem won't solve its self, however listen to the racket the tree huggers make when culling programs are introduced, mind you I suspect the problem is pretty much out of control and culling programs will have little affect.
hako said
02:00 AM May 1, 2013
Here is the possible answer - allowing shooters into national parks. http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/news/queensland-s-brave-new-national-parks
oldboar said
02:02 AM May 1, 2013
How accurate you are Santa. I've spent the past six years in senior executive positions with a national hunting organisation so have first hand knowledge of the inhibitions of the green brigade (non stop battle with them for the whole period). The ones that really annoyed me, unlike the average greenie that lives in fairyland (I've even been asked why can't we get our meat from the supermarket where no animals are hurt) are the National Parks rangers - the majority of whom are great at determining the size of the problem, but lack the guts to do something positive about it.
When I was kid in the late 60's we trapped / shot 2 feral cats that were dragging down newborn lambs,, it was unbelievable they were huge and just killing like foxes,,, just for fun.
Both had teeth about 25mm long and 1 fought like hell in a trap before we shot him,,, he had cleared the blackberry bushes for over 1m around the trap trying to get free.
Before I hear howls of anger re trapping,,, think of multiple 1-10 day old lambs being mauled to death in the night.
The farmer was so pleased we got em.
sandsmere said
01:06 PM May 1, 2013
Yeah , feral cats and pigs are a huge problem .
We are home at Hivesville Qld. for 5 or 6 weeks . Yesterday evening I went out with a mate chasing deer .
Didn't see a deer , but the state is less 3 feral pigs . There is a plague of the bloody things out here .
GaryKelly said
03:37 PM May 1, 2013
When ever feral animals are mentioned, firearms are mentioned, as if there is only one answer to the problem. In America there are over 300 million firearms in private hands and yet they still have problems with feral animals. Am I missing something here?
Gerty Dancer said
03:52 PM May 1, 2013
Santa wrote:
The rise in feral animals has risen to plague proportions ever since the the govt decided to demonize those who even think of owning a firearm.
It once was that every farmer/station owner had a rifle in his vehicle as a tool of trade, now it's simply too hard.
The problem won't solve its self, however listen to the racket the tree huggers make when culling programs are introduced, mind you I suspect the problem is pretty much out of control and culling programs will have little affect.
The farmers I know still do keep a rifle, its licenced nowadays. Even when I was a kid, although the rifle itself didnt need a permit, Dad had to have a shooters permit. He would shoot feral cats/dogs or foxes, tried to eradicate rabbits and failed.
No guns are allowed in National Parks... no traps either, and its the feral animals that breed uncontrolled in National Parks then come out to the nearby farms to wreak havoc.
milo said
06:40 PM May 1, 2013
we nearly hit several feral goats last year when we were travelling to broken hill. they were every where..
dazren said
06:56 PM May 1, 2013
Gary wrote. --- When ever feral animals are mentioned, firearms are mentioned, as if there is only one answer to the problem. In America there are over 300 million firearms in private hands and yet they still have problems with feral animals. Am I missing something here?
Sorry Gaz, two completly different situations there ?? you cannot compare the two?? I am not a Hunter, and don't own a rifle, [ but i used to ] Geez i even give a quick death to any fish i catch, There is a place for firearms in civilised society, and shooting feral animals is one of those area's they should be used, It is a much quicker, death than poison, and is more economical and effecient than any other form of eradication, This is not America, and Aussies have a different mindset, so please do not compare
Santa said
07:55 PM May 1, 2013
dazren wrote:
Gary wrote. --- When ever feral animals are mentioned, firearms are mentioned, as if there is only one answer to the problem. In America there are over 300 million firearms in private hands and yet they still have problems with feral animals. Am I missing something here?
Sorry Gaz, two completly different situations there ?? you cannot compare the two?? I am not a Hunter, and don't own a rifle, [ but i used to ] Geez i even give a quick death to any fish i catch, There is a place for firearms in civilised society, and shooting feral animals is one of those area's they should be used, It is a much quicker, death than poison, and is more economical and effecient than any other form of eradication, This is not America, and Aussies have a different mindset, so please do not compare
Well said Dazren.
GaryKelly said
08:26 PM May 1, 2013
Yep, well said, Dazren. 300 million firearms in the US has nothing to do with their feral animal problem because they have a different mindset. Now why didn't I think of that? Thilly me. I thought my point was that both Oz and the US have a similar problem with ferals despite the difference in gun laws. Oh well, back to the drawing board, Gaz.
herbie said
09:31 PM May 1, 2013
When i was working over in a mine site across the water from Denham in WA not so long ago , the company that owned the lease on the mine site and that included the two big stations ,( Japan based company ) they had a permit to keep 500 goats ,well that might look good on the paper work submitted to the gov depts, but in a 8 month period that i was there there was 1000s of goats roaming that area ,and one must remember this is not all that far from heritiage protected coast line and Nation Parks..Not once did i ever see anyone from any gov dept visit and fine or revoke this over seas company's lease regarding these goats destrying every thing .Not just the vegitation but also pig rooting the ground .I had to resign from contracting to this company as they were a law unto them self with no respect for our country or even the Indian Ocean surounding this mine site...I have put a documented report into the fedural gov regarding the practise of this company,but because it guess it brings in revenue it will fall on deaf ears. The other aspect of all this is Dogs are not permitted into National Parks but these ferral animials are doing more harm than a dog on a leash would ever do.
-- Edited by herbie on Wednesday 1st of May 2013 11:41:08 PM
way2gokev said
09:45 PM May 1, 2013
G'Day
Why is there a problem with feral animals of all types it is because bloody beauricrats are mostly city dwellers and have no idea of what happens in the bush. They will wake up when the feral animals head to the city and start mowing down the lawns and shrubs, I think they have left their run to late, the laws and hassels involved in owning a firearm is turning young people away in droves, even to keep a licence to own a gun is a hassle and we dont have to hunt no more for food.
There are thousands of ferals shot every day somewhere in Australia and most of the carcases are dumped because the beauricrats choose to listen to a minority and act with their head in the clouds instead of using common sense. Look at NZ they have a problem with ferals like deer and possum but they in their common sense attitude utalize the meat and skins and make money from it, here we just bury them.
Sad but true and the problem will only get worse, whats the answer, I dont really know but a bit of commonsense would surely help.
Cheers
Kev
johnq said
10:59 PM May 1, 2013
GaryKelly wrote:
When ever feral animals are mentioned, firearms are mentioned, as if there is only one answer to the problem. In America there are over 300 million firearms in private hands and yet they still have problems with feral animals. Am I missing something here?
All countries have feral pest problems. Multi-faceted control is best. Why shouldn't a camper with a pea rifle take rabbits for the pot? They used to be able to do that. Or hunters take deer as in Europe?
The only other solution you leave is to extend the highly expensive contractor drops of 1080 poison.
Maybe some can turn away and not think about what 1080 does to animals. But it does take ages for a deer to die.
We are leaving valuable chemical free meat go to waste and all through hysteria and political correctness.
GaryKelly said
12:40 AM May 2, 2013
Not too keen on campers with pea rifles mistaking me for a rabbit, and I don't like the idea of poisoning our parks or being cruel to animals, feral or not. So what about this for an idea? We have a billion dollar military at our disposal. Put aside a 2 week period once a year (perhaps during breeding season), close the national parks and organize the military into several large groups (one for each park) to conduct a professional cull of all feral activity. We're already paying for our military, so the exercise shouldn't be all that expensive. If it was well coordinated and professional, the cull could hopefully reduce feral activity in any given area to a minimum. After a few regular culls over a few years, we might even get rid of ferals altogether! One thing is certain, ad hoc control doesn't work. The government needs to get serious. Any takers for that idea? After all, if we use the military to help out during floods and other natural disasters, why not use it to control feral plagues?
Baz421 said
12:51 AM May 2, 2013
GaryKelly wrote:
Not too keen on campers with pea rifles mistaking me for a rabbit, and I don't like the idea of poisoning our parks or being cruel to animals, feral or not. So what about this for an idea? We have a billion dollar military at our disposal. Put aside a 2 week period once a year (perhaps during breeding season), close the national parks and organize the military into several large groups (one for each park) to conduct a professional cull of all feral activity. We're already paying for our military, so the exercise shouldn't be all that expensive. If it was well coordinated and professional, the cull could hopefully reduce feral activity in any given area to a minimum. After a few regular culls over a few years, we might even get rid of ferals altogether! One thing is certain, ad hoc control doesn't work. The government needs to get serious. Any takers for that idea? After all, if we use the military to help out during floods and other natural disasters, why not use it to control feral plagues?
A bit of a problem with that Gary,,, even if all the other stars aligned,,, after one hour all the remaining ferals would scatter everywhere and it would be a wasted exercise IMHO. They are crafty and surprise and cunning on our behalf reap the rewards.
sandsmere said
02:41 AM May 2, 2013
I don't like creulty to animals either Gary . That's why I shoot . they die very quickly .
Talking about cruelty , not too long age I saw two pigs grab a lamb about 2 weeks old . One on the head end
and one on the @rse end . then they just ripped it in half .
Neither of the pigs will ever kill another lamb .
A few years ago , we spent a week on a couple of properties in the Mungindi area chasing pigs . At the time we could sell
the pigs after they had been gutted etc. . We caught , killed and gutted 78 pigs in 6 days.
every one of those pigs had lambs inside it .
The do-gooders and a lot of city people wouldn't have a clue what happens in the bush .
johnq said
04:52 AM May 2, 2013
GaryKelly wrote:
Not too keen on campers with pea rifles mistaking me for a rabbit,
[snip]
That is an irrational fear.
It is also most insulting to the many thousands of ordinary, law-abiding, respectable people who pass the character tests and do the training to be awarded a licence.
However, talking about risk, how can you yourself be trusted not to be run amok with a motor vehicle, or not use it for some nefarious purpose? After all, you have never been required to meet and continuously uphold the stringent character and other requirement that are deemed essential to obtain a firearms licence. Yet it is a fact that without access to a vehicle that gives anonymity and mobility, few serious crimes would be committed and lives lost. Maybe it is time to get serious about cars and restrict licences on the same basis as firearms. That would solve the transport problems overnight.
Sorry for the few extra words and not taking a shot at you personally (what am I saying ) but we need to return to Earth and reality.
johnq said
01:58 PM May 2, 2013
Gary,
You are have set a lot of hares running there, a rather busy top paddock.
If you believe as you say, that the 'numbers game' should rule -an authoritarian not a democratic world view- you might like to consider what effect that might have on you personally. In some quarters caravans would not win many popularity contests either, nor do age pensions, and there are other current issues that many are not entirely comfortable with either, read the feckless media.
You are joking about the army invading Australia of course. Buff young SAS in camo shorts popping up to assist you with a chorus of Kumbaya. Although one idiotic PM had a Canberra bomber sweep Tassie (photos only). Canberra (the national capital) does that to them.
Another thing, you are going to have dump that Easter Bunny suit for your forays into the bush. Or wear a bike helmet. Maybe that is where you are going wrong. You know how any lurking GNs -armed to the teeth with peashooters presumably- are rather partial to chocolate in a basket and would likely crash tackle the said rabbit to get it.
-- Edited by johnq on Thursday 2nd of May 2013 01:59:59 PM
GaryKelly said
03:49 PM May 2, 2013
Politicians, no matter which side of politics they're on, often use the word 'reality'. "The reality is..." they begin. On the issue of private firearms in public places, the reality is there are more people against than there are in favor. It's irrelevant who's right or who's wrong. It's a numbers game. If you're gonna talk about reality, that's the reality. Comparing the licensing of firearms to the licensing of drivers is a red herring. The economy depends far more on the use of motor vehicles than it does on the use of firearms. Placing severe restrictions on driver's licenses would disrupt the economy big time, and make the current cost of providing public transport look like pocket money.
In relation to sending in the military to cull feral animals in National Parks, the argument that feral animals are too cunning to be caught is like saying the Taliban are too smart for Aussie soldiers, so why bother? In a case of Aussie soldiers versus ferals, my money would be on the Aussies.
But I suspect my suggestion has been ignored or dismissed because it might just work. And if it did work, it would make the issue of private firearms in public parks redundant.
As I see it, and I've seen it before on these forums, this issue is never about reality. It's always about emotion. It's like the way pollies behave in Parliament. All yelling abuse and nobody listening. All claiming to be right. Well, we'll see who's right on September 14.
Meanwhile, if you're gonna talk about reality, make sure it's reality and not a version thereof. Amen.
Tea and scones are now being served. That'll be $10 each, thank you.
GaryKelly said
09:16 PM May 2, 2013
Oh dear... here we go again. I didn't say the numbers game should rule. I said the numbers game exists. I need a BEX.
Ontos45 said
11:39 PM May 3, 2013
Blimey! here we go again, the anti/pro gun arguments. After having to put an injured kangaroo out of it's agony after being hit by a car outback with a wheel brace I now carry a cross bow in Qld. It has accounted for a few feral animals too. Just for the record, I carried firearms for my security work both in Australia and Overseas. Now I'm a GN and traveling I don't have a legit reason to have a firearm according to the powers that be, so, the cross bow.
Maybe more resources should put into culling feral cats/dogs/pigs as there is in to killing camels/horses/Buffalo by helicopter shooters?
Feral cats in plague proportions in the outback. ABC News on line
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201304/s3747969.htm
This is just not a problem re dogs ,the outback is also getting over run with goats,since the goverment slashed these jobs from people who used to trap/control all these feral animals. The farmers around Geraldton in WA were up in arms regarding the damage Emu's were doing to theie crops ,while we were staying there.
The rise in feral animals has risen to plague proportions ever since the the govt decided to demonize those who even think of owning a firearm.
It once was that every farmer/station owner had a rifle in his vehicle as a tool of trade, now it's simply too hard.
The problem won't solve its self, however listen to the racket the tree huggers make when culling programs are introduced, mind you I suspect the problem is pretty much out of control and culling programs will have little affect.
http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/news/queensland-s-brave-new-national-parks
Darrell
http://www.shootersandfishers.org.au/news/queensland-s-brave-new-national-parks
When I was kid in the late 60's we trapped / shot 2 feral cats that were dragging down newborn lambs,, it was unbelievable they were huge and just killing like foxes,,, just for fun.
Both had teeth about 25mm long and 1 fought like hell in a trap before we shot him,,, he had cleared the blackberry bushes for over 1m around the trap trying to get free.
Before I hear howls of anger re trapping,,, think of multiple 1-10 day old lambs being mauled to death in the night.
The farmer was so pleased we got em.
Yeah , feral cats and pigs are a huge problem .
We are home at Hivesville Qld. for 5 or 6 weeks . Yesterday evening I went out with a mate chasing deer .
Didn't see a deer , but the state is less 3 feral pigs . There is a plague of the bloody things out here .
The farmers I know still do keep a rifle, its licenced nowadays. Even when I was a kid, although the rifle itself didnt need a permit, Dad had to have a shooters permit. He would shoot feral cats/dogs or foxes, tried to eradicate rabbits and failed.
No guns are allowed in National Parks... no traps either, and its the feral animals that breed uncontrolled in National Parks then come out to the nearby farms to wreak havoc.
Gary wrote. --- When ever feral animals are mentioned, firearms are mentioned, as if there is only one answer to the problem. In America there are over 300 million firearms in private hands and yet they still have problems with feral animals. Am I missing something here?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry Gaz, two completly different situations there ?? you cannot compare the two?? I am not a Hunter, and don't own a rifle, [ but i used to ] Geez i even give a quick death to any fish i catch, There is a place for firearms in civilised society, and shooting feral animals is one of those area's they should be used, It is a much quicker, death than poison, and is more economical and effecient than any other form of eradication, This is not America, and Aussies have a different mindset, so please do not compare
Well said Dazren.
When i was working over in a mine site across the water from Denham in WA not so long ago , the company that owned the lease on the mine site and that included the two big stations ,( Japan based company ) they had a permit to keep 500 goats ,well that might look good on the paper work submitted to the gov depts, but in a 8 month period that i was there there was 1000s of goats roaming that area ,and one must remember this is not all that far from heritiage protected coast line and Nation Parks..Not once did i ever see anyone from any gov dept visit and fine or revoke this over seas company's lease regarding these goats destrying every thing .Not just the vegitation but also pig rooting the ground .I had to resign from contracting to this company as they were a law unto them self with no respect for our country or even the Indian Ocean surounding this mine site...I have put a documented report into the fedural gov regarding the practise of this company,but because it guess it brings in revenue it will fall on deaf ears. The other aspect of all this is Dogs are not permitted into National Parks but these ferral animials are doing more harm than a dog on a leash would ever do.
-- Edited by herbie on Wednesday 1st of May 2013 11:41:08 PM
G'Day
Why is there a problem with feral animals of all types it is because bloody beauricrats are mostly city dwellers and have no idea of what happens in the bush. They will wake up when the feral animals head to the city and start mowing down the lawns and shrubs, I think they have left their run to late, the laws and hassels involved in owning a firearm is turning young people away in droves, even to keep a licence to own a gun is a hassle and we dont have to hunt no more for food.
There are thousands of ferals shot every day somewhere in Australia and most of the carcases are dumped because the beauricrats choose to listen to a minority and act with their head in the clouds instead of using common sense. Look at NZ they have a problem with ferals like deer and possum but they in their common sense attitude utalize the meat and skins and make money from it, here we just bury them.
Sad but true and the problem will only get worse, whats the answer, I dont really know but a bit of commonsense would surely help.
Cheers
Kev
All countries have feral pest problems. Multi-faceted control is best. Why shouldn't a camper with a pea rifle take rabbits for the pot? They used to be able to do that. Or hunters take deer as in Europe?
The only other solution you leave is to extend the highly expensive contractor drops of 1080 poison.
Maybe some can turn away and not think about what 1080 does to animals. But it does take ages for a deer to die.
We are leaving valuable chemical free meat go to waste and all through hysteria and political correctness.
So what about this for an idea? We have a billion dollar military at our disposal. Put aside a 2 week period once a year (perhaps during breeding season),
close the national parks and organize the military into several large groups (one for each park) to conduct a professional cull of all feral activity. We're already
paying for our military, so the exercise shouldn't be all that expensive. If it was well coordinated and professional, the cull could hopefully reduce feral
activity in any given area to a minimum. After a few regular culls over a few years, we might even get rid of ferals altogether! One thing is certain, ad hoc
control doesn't work. The government needs to get serious. Any takers for that idea? After all, if we use the military to help out during floods and other
natural disasters, why not use it to control feral plagues?
A bit of a problem with that Gary,,, even if all the other stars aligned,,, after one hour all the remaining ferals would scatter everywhere and it would be a wasted exercise IMHO. They are crafty and surprise and cunning on our behalf reap the rewards.
I don't like creulty to animals either Gary . That's why I shoot . they die very quickly .
Talking about cruelty , not too long age I saw two pigs grab a lamb about 2 weeks old . One on the head end
and one on the @rse end . then they just ripped it in half .
Neither of the pigs will ever kill another lamb .
A few years ago , we spent a week on a couple of properties in the Mungindi area chasing pigs . At the time we could sell
the pigs after they had been gutted etc. . We caught , killed and gutted 78 pigs in 6 days.
every one of those pigs had lambs inside it .
The do-gooders and a lot of city people wouldn't have a clue what happens in the bush .
That is an irrational fear.
It is also most insulting to the many thousands of ordinary, law-abiding, respectable people who pass the character tests and do the training to be awarded a licence.
However, talking about risk, how can you yourself be trusted not to be run amok with a motor vehicle, or not use it for some nefarious purpose? After all, you have never been required to meet and continuously uphold the stringent character and other requirement that are deemed essential to obtain a firearms licence. Yet it is a fact that without access to a vehicle that gives anonymity and mobility, few serious crimes would be committed and lives lost. Maybe it is time to get serious about cars and restrict licences on the same basis as firearms. That would solve the transport problems overnight.
Sorry for the few extra words and not taking a shot at you personally (what am I saying
) but we need to return to Earth and reality.
Gary,
You are have set a lot of hares running there, a rather busy top paddock.
If you believe as you say, that the 'numbers game' should rule -an authoritarian not a democratic world view- you might like to consider what effect that might have on you personally. In some quarters caravans would not win many popularity contests either, nor do age pensions, and there are other current issues that many are not entirely comfortable with either, read the feckless media.
You are joking about the army invading Australia of course. Buff young SAS in camo shorts popping up to assist you with a chorus of Kumbaya. Although one idiotic PM had a Canberra bomber sweep Tassie (photos only). Canberra (the national capital) does that to them.
Another thing, you are going to have dump that Easter Bunny suit for your forays into the bush. Or wear a bike helmet. Maybe that is where you are going wrong. You know how any lurking GNs -armed to the teeth with peashooters presumably- are rather partial to chocolate in a basket and would likely crash tackle the said rabbit to get it.
-- Edited by johnq on Thursday 2nd of May 2013 01:59:59 PM
the reality is there are more people against than there are in favor. It's irrelevant who's right or who's wrong. It's a numbers game. If you're gonna talk
about reality, that's the reality. Comparing the licensing of firearms to the licensing of drivers is a red herring. The economy depends far more on the use of
motor vehicles than it does on the use of firearms. Placing severe restrictions on driver's licenses would disrupt the economy big time, and make the current cost
of providing public transport look like pocket money.
In relation to sending in the military to cull feral animals in National Parks, the argument that feral animals are too cunning to be caught is like saying the
Taliban are too smart for Aussie soldiers, so why bother? In a case of Aussie soldiers versus ferals, my money would be on the Aussies.
But I suspect my suggestion has been ignored or dismissed because it might just work. And if it did work, it would make the issue of private firearms in
public parks redundant.
As I see it, and I've seen it before on these forums, this issue is never about reality. It's always about emotion. It's like the way pollies behave in Parliament.
All yelling abuse and nobody listening. All claiming to be right. Well, we'll see who's right on September 14.
Meanwhile, if you're gonna talk about reality, make sure it's reality and not a version thereof. Amen.
Tea and scones are now being served. That'll be $10 each, thank you.
Blimey! here we go again, the anti/pro gun arguments.
After having to put an injured kangaroo out of it's agony after being hit by a car outback with a wheel brace I now carry a cross bow in Qld. It has accounted for a few feral animals too.
Just for the record, I carried firearms for my security work both in Australia and Overseas. Now I'm a GN and traveling I don't have a legit reason to have a firearm according to the powers that be, so, the cross bow.
Maybe more resources should put into culling feral cats/dogs/pigs as there is in to killing camels/horses/Buffalo by helicopter shooters?
Peter