Well - been to the Sydney camping and RV show and my verdict is....
GregTheComputerGuy said
04:11 AM Apr 29, 2013
....not a comment on the show itself but on me and my future - I didnt see ONE CARAVAN that I would want to buy. You know when you go around a lot to buy a car or look at house after house to buy when moving or are even looking for a mobile phone and suddenly there it is - the one you really think is the best and you just HAVE to buy that....you know that feeling? I trooped from end to end, up and down the stairs and though my price range is limited so that I couldnt actually afford...what was it "Bushtracker"?.... it was the closest to what I wanted. Eg, they make an off road van with all the right suspension to make it safer when on or off road as well as have a lot of other goodies but mostly it was that you could custom design anything on the van at all.
I didnt get that "custom design" anywhere else. I was told by some that I could do this and do that which were not large changes and there were some vans with a reasonable though not great interior layout but nothing met what *I* wanted. This isnt to say there were no great vans but rather that I want what I want. Simple, you think? Nope.
So, I finally got thinking very much about what my dogs have now as opposed to what they WOULD have in a van (or indeed any other thing such as a camper or tent or whatever) if we sold the house and got onto the road never to come back. They are Chows, about Labrador sized though my boy is a TALL and HUGE Chow with enough strength to pull me off my feet if he is being naughty on the lead. What they have now is most of a half acre block to run around in, most of it Aussie bush block and let's face it, dogs need exercise amongst other things. In a van they would barely have (2 Chows) enough room on a day pouring rain, to walk past each other and I am talking about 23 and 24 footers that I saw (I lived in a 38 footer in the 70s for 2 years so maybe I am being a spoiled brat, here) so my question is really - you are travelling with your DOGS and so long as they are around Labrador sized (small dogs you can more easily accommodate), what do you do to exercise and entertain them? My two are good natured lovely Chows that will lay right beside each other and eat treats without any problems so sure, we can walk them on a lead but right now they get most of a half acre to run OFF lead on and if I let either of them off lead outside of a yard, I wouldnt ever see them again. I have trained Chows to walk off lead really well in the past but there are times when you know that they are too head strong to do that and these two (related to each other) are that type so wont ever be allowed off lead outside a yard.
I am really upset about this as I thought that even though I couldnt find my caravan "perfect match" I could find SOME way around it eventually but this problem with the dogs I cannot get around. Has anyone any ideas or help? Eg, I am travelling free camping or in a caravan park and I want to let them off lead in an enclosed area and given that there are precious few of those about, how do I let them do this? I have thought of those leads that extend and wind back in but they arent that long and if it is too long, the silly buggers would end up tying themselves up, no doubt. Any help appreciated because I am not sure that I will be able to sell up, buy the caravan and move onto the road with the dogs until I can fix this problem or if I can, wont be able to go at all. My youngest is 3 and an average life for a Chow where I live is 14. By the time she went I dont like my chances given health considerations.
No, I wont leave my dogs with someone else. I cannot understand people doing that but that is me. Thanks for any help.
scottynbulldog said
05:17 PM Apr 29, 2013
We have 2 Golden Retrievers who travel with us in our 21ft van. We have an annexe and skirt which allows them to be off their leads. If the annexe is not up we have them on long chains which allows them to move around the van. We have found many lead free areas for them to run around in in our travels. They sleep outside most of the time unless it is very wet and windy!! The more we travel the more well behaved they are becoming when off their leads. Hope this helps.
msg said
07:04 PM Apr 29, 2013
Its not only big dogs that "don't hear you" when they see something. Even little dogs do this. Fortunately for me, Molly has to take a packed lunch to go down to my front gate and therefore only needs a long work every now and again. I would never let her off her lead when travelling. I used to have an irish setter but everytime I opened the front door to someone I was on guard as I knew she would be rushing up behind me to go out. Still after some 20 years it is a natural reaction lol. I still miss her terribly. We also had a Chow but he liked to get out and visit the neighbours and steal their chickens. That said, I believe there are lots of lead free places to take your dogs and they will really enjoy travelling. Look up the internet and I think you will find a lot of options to take you dogs.
GregTheComputerGuy said
11:02 PM Apr 29, 2013
scottynbulldog wrote:
We have 2 Golden Retrievers who travel with us in our 21ft van. We have an annexe and skirt which allows them to be off their leads. If the annexe is not up we have them on long chains which allows them to move around the van. We have found many lead free areas for them to run around in in our travels. They sleep outside most of the time unless it is very wet and windy!! The more we travel the more well behaved they are becoming when off their leads. Hope this helps.
Gail,
Thanks for the reply but Goldens are, from about the age of 3 or so onwards, easily able to be trusted off lead with the right training. My two will NEVER be trusted off lead. Chows can be VERY headstrong and often let you know they disagree by grumbling to themselves as they walk off and so on. I love my dogs being able to be natural and I wouldnt want to force them into anything else and have them unhappy. The point is, not able to trust them off leads, what then? I think you mean you can trust yours off the lead. Is that right?
GregTheComputerGuy said
11:12 PM Apr 29, 2013
msg wrote:
Its not only big dogs that "don't hear you" when they see something. Even little dogs do this. Fortunately for me, Molly has to take a packed lunch to go down to my front gate and therefore only needs a long work every now and again. I would never let her off her lead when travelling. I used to have an irish setter but everytime I opened the front door to someone I was on guard as I knew she would be rushing up behind me to go out. Still after some 20 years it is a natural reaction lol. I still miss her terribly. We also had a Chow but he liked to get out and visit the neighbours and steal their chickens. That said, I believe there are lots of lead free places to take your dogs and they will really enjoy travelling. Look up the internet and I think you will find a lot of options to take you dogs.
I have had Chows who would, if allowed, walk the block, never cross a road because I trained them that way, even to chase a cat etc but these two are not like that at all. As to stealing chickens, yes I knew a Chow breeder who also bred prize show poultry (chickens) and while she was out one day, a Chow of hers escaped the pen she was in (recently mated to a male and thought to be pregnant) and got into the chicken enclosure. The owner got home to see the Chow do what all Chows do when they catch something - grab it by the neck and without letting go, flick it over their heads to break the caught thing's neck. She put the Chow back and fixed the escape route and went back to the chicken roost to find that all the others had been cleanly plucked. None had been eaten and none otherwise marked in any way. I saw one of my own catch a HUGE rat when an excavator behind our first house went through the middle of a hidden rat nest and this one decided to run under the fence into our yard. With something like glee, she chaed and got it then flicked it as explained above without letting go and I heard a scream from the rat that sounded like a 5 year old human. My wife, transfixed in horror beside me, watched that Chow, who was MY girl, brought the new catch, apparently a great present and dumped it at my wife's feet. My wife started breathing in deeply to scream and I intejected "Pat her and tell her GOOD DOG" and that got my wife's attention who said, in a voice almost cracking "Why?". I replied "If you dont, the next one that comes across your feet may be alive" so she patted the Chow, told her what a good girl she was and rushed inside with all possible haste. I went to pick it up and the darned thing was still alive! It turned its head (couldnt move the body) to snap at me. I had to kill it before disposing of it.
Anyway, back on topic - I cannot trust my two at all and I dont believe there are many enclosed off leash areas anywhere around the country simply because councils dont like them and then they dont want to be sued by those using them. So if you know of any answers, I would appreciate it but so far no search has helped.
Ron and Shirley said
01:38 AM Apr 30, 2013
Unbelievable
I certainly would not want your dogs in an off lead park, or bush camp, with my little fella.
By your own admission they need to be tethered at all times if you ever go on the road. Maybe even muzzled so they don't attack other animals or pick up bait.
GregTheComputerGuy said
04:53 AM Apr 30, 2013
Ron and Shirley wrote:
Unbelievable
I certainly would not want your dogs in an off lead park, or bush camp, with my little fella.
By your own admission they need to be tethered at all times if you ever go on the road. Maybe even muzzled so they don't attack other animals or pick up bait.
I have no idea what it was that you were reading but on the off chance it had something to do with a nice bottle of Drambuie, could you pass it here? I think yours was off and I need to taste test it so next time you read, you dont read something that wasnt written. OTOH, I am a known taste tester of Drambuie! ;-}
No idea what you read but whatever you read wasnt in this thread so you might try again. All I said was that my two arent trustworthy off leash. I can call them and they wont come back. It isnt because they are dumb as doorposts but because they are too damned headstrong and would find adventure in any direction they pleased and I would have no chance of catching them. So whatever you read, I would love to publish that one in a fantasy section book! I reckon making stories from nothing is the backbone of a good author! Keep it up! Look at the millions J.K Rowlings made - you can do it, too, with an imagination like that! ;-}
biggles said
05:02 AM Apr 30, 2013
I don't even have a dog and I read it the same .. sorry 'bout that !
GregTheComputerGuy said
05:15 AM Apr 30, 2013
biggles wrote:
I don't even have a dog and I read it the same .. sorry 'bout that !
Well, it only goes to show you that it is true - we all need to stop putting off getting our glasses prescriptions rechecked! ;-}
GregTheComputerGuy said
05:26 AM Apr 30, 2013
Oh wait - I think I see what I did. You know how you write something with what to say in mind and when you post it and have read it a lot of times, you still never see it? It said I trained them to chase a cat it looks like. It was meant to say I trained the dog so she would walk beside me off lead and would run to the edge of the road and stop and wouldnt even cross the road to chase a cat. That actually happened. I saw the cat on the other side of the road far too late and the Chow flew to the edge of the road (the cat being on the other side) and just stayed there whining and wanting to go over. No, none of my dogs ever caught a cat. Chows are generally not known to be agile but this one was...though not THAT agile. In fact we had a cat at that time that this Chow was still alive. We had 3 Chows, one full grown adult, one almost adult and not fully grown, a 9 month old and a Pomeranian. They saw our cat jump the fence into our yard and thought it would be fun to chase it though they knew full well this cat was a small looking female but a real tiger if she was provoked and it only took walking too close to her to provoke her if you were a dog! Anyway, they took off chasing the cat in descending order of height which was funny enough but the cat was in an exceptionally good mood this day and let them do it. They went three times around the yard until the cat came to adead stop in the manner that only cats can - eg, 100KPH or thereabouts to a 0KPH in about 6 inches!! The dogs skidded on the grass, still in line until the front one stopped and all the others rear ended each other still in line. They stopped looking at the cat and the cat licked her paw then turned around and started stalking the dogs. The dogs turned as one and started running back the other way in asccending height order and the cat chased THEM around the yard. The cat had come in response to the dinner call and I had to remind her just in case she caught the dogs. She had already put a Boxer in hospital and another dog and was about to do the same to a cattle dog when I called her off. Of course the cattle dog had just come into the yard to chase the kittens we had at the time and though she wasnt the mother of the kittens and barely tolerated them, the dog wasnt going to get away with that.
Sorry to all - I didnt teach any dog to chase a cat. I taught it to never cross the road. Of course, the dogs WOULD have chased the cat if on the same side of the road but as cats always were far too agile for them, no harm would have come of it and these Chows back then were trained by that cat of ours to be afraid of cats so even if one of mine DID corner a cat, they would have been too afraid to do anything more than that......though they did corner the gas meter reader once! ;-}
Ron and Shirley said
05:26 AM Apr 30, 2013
GregTheComputerGuy wrote:
I have had Chows who would, if allowed, walk the block, never cross a road because I trained them that way, even to chase a cat etc but these two are not like that at all.
<snip>
I saw one of my own catch a HUGE rat when an excavator behind our first house went through the middle of a hidden rat nest and this one decided to run under the fence into our yard. With something like glee, she chaed and got it then flicked it as explained above without letting go and I heard a scream from the rat that sounded like a 5 year old human. My wife, transfixed in horror beside me, watched that Chow, who was MY girl, brought the new catch, apparently a great present and dumped it at my wife's feet. My wife started breathing in deeply to scream and I intejected "Pat her and tell her GOOD DOG" and that got my wife's attention who said, in a voice almost cracking "Why?". I replied "If you dont, the next one that comes across your feet may be alive" so she patted the Chow, told her what a good girl she was and rushed inside with all possible haste. I went to pick it up and the darned thing was still alive! It turned its head (couldnt move the body) to snap at me. I had to kill it before disposing of it.
Anyway, back on topic - I cannot trust my two at all and I dont believe there are many enclosed off leash areas anywhere around the country simply because councils dont like them and then they dont want to be sued by those using them. So if you know of any answers, I would appreciate it but so far no search has helped.
Sorry I must have mis read your post.
The above was enough for me to keep our little fella away from free running Chows anywhere, particularly yours as you say you cannot trust the two you have now.
Baz421 said
05:28 AM Apr 30, 2013
I see some passion here,,,
Back to the OP,,,,,,,,, a simple dog run anywhere is a single wire 10. 30 or 50 metres long tied off to vehicles, vans, trees and fence posts. Clip the dogs onto the wire by say 2-5m lead and they can run. Obviously set up to avoid obstacles etc so dogs don't hurt themselves.
At the very least they get execise and are under control.
I may be off the subject ofthe OP, but I've seen these runs work for many people.
hokianga said
03:51 PM Apr 30, 2013
I travelled for six months witha small yorkie and a large nz huntaway, it was very easy but having said that the huntaway was very obedient, and in bad weather was happy to lounge in my van , it sounds like your two love exercise and action, so, if you want to take them, as suggested in the post above, sounds like a running wire is the best option, or, stay home. I think another poster on here was worried by teh sound of your dogs that perhaps they would kill a small dog such as a pug? I would be worried about my yorkie also. Fenced off leash areas are very rare in my limited travel experience.
scottynbulldog said
05:08 PM Apr 30, 2013
Greg
My 2 would still run and chase something so I do not let them off the lead unless it is definitely safe and no one else around. We exercise them at least twice a day which is good for us and good for them!! You say yours would be unhappy chained but they get used to things and they would be unhappy if you left them at home. You would also be unhappy if they did do something wrong.
To me the decision is easy, tie them up and exercise them well and you will all be happy.
Rip and Rosie said
05:12 PM Apr 30, 2013
There is no way around it- dogs in vans need regular exercise, by you, on leash. The leash protects the wild life and other dogs, it also allows you to know where and when they go to the toilet so you can pick it up. If your dog is a threat to smaller dogs or other humans, it needs a muzzle.
We used to travel with a portable pen, and have also used a tethering system and long lead. Other people has quite clever fencing around their awning areas.
I agree with others, fenced off leash areas are rare.
msg said
06:56 PM Apr 30, 2013
Maybe you can get some ideas from here
http://www.traveldogsaustralia.com
gold dandelion said
04:28 AM May 1, 2013
I agree with Ron & Shirley and Biggles also, he did also say he wouldn't trust his own dogs off a tether. seems a good story teller himself actually, or may be his drambui was off.
clbn said
02:29 AM May 6, 2013
hi we travel with 2 dogs 1med the other small, they have plenty of free runs we find spots for them to go , and they have plenty of walks on leads also . always be careful of baits, in doubtful areas always put a muzzle on them :)
Weedy Pigeon said
02:34 AM May 11, 2013
"hi we travel with 2 dogs 1med the other small, they have plenty of free runs we find spots for them to go , and they have plenty of walks on leads also . always be careful of baits, in doubtful areas always put a muzzle on them :)"
Good point.
If you ever happen to stay at the Cania Gorge caravan park [ the one nearest the dam ] take a walk to the end of the park and get through the barbed wire fence. You'll see 2 concrete headstones. The result of dogs running uncontrolled, both victims of 1080.
GregTheComputerGuy said
05:54 AM Jun 15, 2013
scottynbulldog wrote:
Greg
My 2 would still run and chase something so I do not let them off the lead unless it is definitely safe and no one else around. We exercise them at least twice a day which is good for us and good for them!! You say yours would be unhappy chained but they get used to things and they would be unhappy if you left them at home. You would also be unhappy if they did do something wrong.
To me the decision is easy, tie them up and exercise them well and you will all be happy.
It wasnt that they would be unhappy per se though they just may be. I would have to try it to be sure. Many Chows of adult years (3 or older) are very lazy dogs. 10 minutes of exercise and they think they have run 40 kilometres flat out! ;-} It is definitely me not happy with the idea of taking them on the road with no place to run off leash within a fenced off area. While they are happy with 10 minutes at a time of exercise, on a sunny day they can move around a lot and inspect other dogs walking the street, pretend they are king of the world and so on. Added to that, Chows love to bush bash which is basically "see a thicket and run at it full speed ahead". I have many Chow trails through my bush block made by JUST such acts. They are lovely dogs that wouldnt hurt a fly. The boy would run the other way rather than fight if attacked but the girl will stand her ground if attacked. We have visitors bring their dogs of all sizes over to our place and no problems. They both tend to want to sniff the new arrival and wont let the new one alone until they are happy so I keep an eye on it all in case the new one gets upset. Mother in law's poodle will snap at them for doing that but the boy doesnt seem to notice he is being snapped at and the girl thinks the poodle is playing and tends to try and jump up in the air and land on top of him. He is about 10Kg and she is about 25Kg.....one reason to watch when he first gets there. After a short while they both ignore him for the rest of the time. They do the same thing with any dog in the yard, even one that jumped the fence to say hello. Gave the girl a lot of reason to run around and try to play and the boy ran a short distance away! Funny thing is that when they are inside and someone knocks at the door, both charge to the door barking and growling and the boy has a deep throated really terrifying growl if you didnt know him while the girl is rather normal in her bark. Neither really do anything when the door is opened other than try to stickybeak!
GregTheComputerGuy said
06:06 AM Jun 15, 2013
Rip and Rosie wrote:
There is no way around it- dogs in vans need regular exercise, by you, on leash. The leash protects the wild life and other dogs, it also allows you to know where and when they go to the toilet so you can pick it up. If your dog is a threat to smaller dogs or other humans, it needs a muzzle.
We used to travel with a portable pen, and have also used a tethering system and long lead. Other people has quite clever fencing around their awning areas.
I agree with others, fenced off leash areas are rare.
Yes off leash areas are rare simply because they cause a lot of trouble when a nasty dog let off leash attacks someone else's dog. Councils CAN be sued by irate rate payers in such cases.
I have to say exercising on a leash probably is enough for a small dog say about the size of a Maltese but for Labrador sized dogs it really isnt unless you are a fit marathon runner and are happy to run a few kilometres with them while on leash. My dogs can cover half an acre before I can take a few steps. They come when called while in the yard but only MOST of the time, not all of it. I also like to train them against being frightened too easily by being down the hallway of our house and making a noise and when they come to investigate, jump out and scare them then roll around on the ground with them, make it a game and give them a treat. I do this because two Chows I had some time back were very FRIGHTENED girls, easily scared by anything. It occurred to me that someone's 6 year old child putting their hand through the fence to pat my scared ones back then may well end badly and my scare tactics worked well. Neither were actually frightened by anything much excepting lightning, after a solid 3 to 6 months of doing it every night. Sure they got used to what I was doing and that is part of the story. My current girl has taken up the game and plays it back on me. She likes to hide in the bush in the yard, especially at dusk and not make a noise until I am close then jump out at ME and run away jumping in the air thinking it is all good fun. Normally it is but when you think they may have escaped or it is raining, it isnt much fun. At those times she wont come until she has sprung her trap.
My boy likes to play inside more than out and stares at the girl until she comes to him to see what is going on then he whacks her in the face with a front paw and runs off. When playing, neither hear "come" unfortunately and honestly, about 37Kg of male chow and nearly 25kg of female Chow hitting you while playing isnt much fun so I like to get the girl worked up in the yard to play with the boy to blow it off outside. If he decides he will do it, he comes inside later and goes to sleep for hours. So you see, I have a real problem without an off leash area if I were permanently on the road. I still havent found anything that may work though. I am not sure I ever will but it also occurs to me that the more people talk about it if they see this as a problem, the more chance someone may come up with an answer.
GregTheComputerGuy said
06:20 AM Jun 15, 2013
msg wrote:
Maybe you can get some ideas from here
http://www.traveldogsaustralia.com
Thanks for that. Looks like a genuine person.
GregTheComputerGuy said
06:42 AM Jun 15, 2013
gold dandelion wrote:
I agree with Ron & Shirley and Biggles also, he did also say he wouldn't trust his own dogs off a tether. seems a good story teller himself actually, or may be his drambui was off.
I dont trust them off leash simply because they wouldnt come back. You have to know your dogs WILL come back to trust them off leash. I have trained Chows to be that way and an elderly old girl I had who died last year was that trustworthy EXCEPT if there was something interesting going on. Even then, I would call her name in a stern voice and she would quickly come to me. My current two couldnt be trusted to be off leash in a pink fit. I would never see them again. They would want to play with anything that moved and actually though I had the boy on leash, a Kanga surprised us when on holidays up near Coffs Harbour. A brand new area had been built out for residential and we were walking in it. Apparently no-one had bothered to tell the kangas anything and just built on their habitat. Anyway, a kanga hopped around the corner coming towards us. I stopped waiting to see what it would do and it stopped and eyed us off. My boy got really excited. He hadnt seen a mouse that size before!! He wanted to play with it. The kanga, as there were 2 Chows and my wife and I, decided to turn and go back the way it had come. As it did, a group of kids who all looked under 12 came around the corner. The poor kanga got such a shock he dived into the road. Fortunately, no traffic. The kids loved the dogs and the dogs loved the attention. One kid warned us about the rip in the surf off Safety Beach. He said:
"You can get pulled out to sea but dont worry as the current goes South and you will go past Woolgoolga and the life savers are almost always on duty. Just wave at them and they will come and get you. Dont know what would happen if you went past when they werent on duty. You'd probably end up in Wollongong!"
I found out, after listening to this earnest 10 year old, how hard it is to hold onto a leash and hold your guts at the same time while laughing. Funny little kid.
Yes, I have been asked to write stories many times. I grew up with a father from the Outback in Qld though. When I could do something REALLY well as a kid and would show off like kids do, he would bring me back to Earth with his Outback Qld "Common sense" approach. It amounted to the "tall poppy syndrome" really. You were brought up to try JUST enough to NOT stand out from the crowd and "Not be a smart a**e". I was actually picked for representative soccer and my father thought that wasnt a good thing. So while I occasionally DO write a story (I tend to find it easier to write science fiction strangely) and it is always well received, I also have my childhood programming stop me. If people like it, I stop doing it! ;-} Yeah yeah grow up and get over it and all. I guess at my age I am too old to be bothered with putting the energy into changing that! ;-}
BTW - and changing the topic - you can buy a jacket from Rivers that looks like leather though isnt (might be vinyl but I cant see anything to identify that and I have my doubts that it is vinyl) that looks for all the world like a copper's leather jacket. In my day job I always wear a blue shirt with breast pockets either side and pencil pocket on the left pocket. I also always wear black jeans and black shoes. The upshot is that when a guy pulled out in front of me and I almost t-boned his car into his driver door but JUST scraped around the rear of his car without touching him then pulled over to park, he came at me as if it was my fault then saw me get out of the car and stopped dead in his tracks. While I didnt mean to look like a copper, I actually must have, to him. If you can make them think twice it saves you getting into a problem with a car rage incident driver like that. I always have the crash cam on and when looking at it later saw the guy was looking left while pulling out in front of me. I think I might try to wear that jacket a lot. I rather like not being punched in the head! ;-}
Ron and Shirley said
10:52 PM Jun 15, 2013
Why do I feel I have just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this stuff??? I should have known better.
For God's (and our) sake give it a go on short local trial trip, and give us a break . Tether your dogs, wearing suitable chest padded harnesses, to the van next to your outdoor chairs, and then walk your dogs on lead 2 to 3km twice a day, and see how YOU go.
THEY will love it.
-- Edited by Ron and Shirley on Saturday 15th of June 2013 10:54:24 PM
Rip and Rosie said
04:57 PM Jun 16, 2013
Ron and Shirley wrote:
Why do I feel I have just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this stuff??? I should have known better.
For God's (and our) sake give it a go on short local trial trip, and give us a break . Tether your dogs, wearing suitable chest padded harnesses, to the van next to your outdoor chairs, and then walk your dogs on lead 2 to 3km twice a day, and see how YOU go.
THEY will love it.
-- Edited by Ron and Shirley on Saturday 15th of June 2013 10:54:24 PM
I agree with you, Ron and Shirley.
Dogs adapt, they just want to be with you.
I think you forget they ARE DOGS, although you think they are "boys" and have such human like personalities, they are basically dogs. Despite your wish to customise your van and let them run free, you are doomed to be frustrated and beset with ongoing issues. It won't work, hasn't for others and won't for you.
Your dogs are basically no different to anyone else's, so take advice as offered- use you annex, keep them on a lead/chain or penned up, off lead in designated off lead areas only, don't let them make a nuisance of themselves with other travellers, pick up droppings and control barking.
Try is and see how you go.
Gerty Dancer said
06:08 PM Jun 16, 2013
Ron and Shirley wrote:
Why do I feel I have just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this stuff??? I should have known better.
For God's (and our) sake give it a go on short local trial trip, and give us a break . Tether your dogs, wearing suitable chest padded harnesses, to the van next to your outdoor chairs, and then walk your dogs on lead 2 to 3km twice a day, and see how YOU go.
THEY will love it.
-- Edited by Ron and Shirley on Saturday 15th of June 2013 10:54:24 PM
Well said Ron and Shirley!!
Shogun said
07:15 AM Jul 11, 2013
I hope you have a good solicitor if they are running free and crash into someone. I despise dogs running up to me with the owner screaming behind them "they're ok, they won't bite"...
Re looking like a copper, impersonating police is a criminal offence. I was a cop for 17 years and got "pulled over" once by some idiot Dressing like a cop. When I showed him my real police badge he was very sad...
As for writing stories, stay at home and do that, then the dogs can run free in your yard without annoying anyone.
The dog lady said
06:05 AM Jul 12, 2013
Ron and Shirley wrote:
Why do I feel I have just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this stuff??? I should have known better.
For God's (and our) sake give it a go on short local trial trip, and give us a break . Tether your dogs, wearing suitable chest padded harnesses, to the van next to your outdoor chairs, and then walk your dogs on lead 2 to 3km twice a day, and see how YOU go.
THEY will love it.
-- Edited by Ron and Shirley on Saturday 15th of June 2013 10:54:24 PM
I'm inclined to agree that the best way is to try it and see. My two may be small, but they are greyhounds and will chase kangaroos, rabbits, etc. and it's difficult to make them stop once they become focussed on the chase. So when in doubt, on lead is the only way. But I have found that when travelling they are not as confident of their surroundings as when at home, and are less inclined to run out of sight of my van. They are timid around people and generally give strangers a wide berth, so that's not a problem, but the smaller of mine has an unfortunate tendency to pick fights with big dogs (I confess I don't think they're the smartest breed of dog I've ever owned), so I always keep them on lead until I have checked out the surroundings and the attitude of other campers (if any). Luckily the breed tend to be couch potatoes as I couldn't walk "2 to 3km twice" a year these days (Anyone know where I can get a body transplant? This one's worn out)
....not a comment on the show itself but on me and my future - I didnt see ONE CARAVAN that I would want to buy. You know when you go around a lot to buy a car or look at house after house to buy when moving or are even looking for a mobile phone and suddenly there it is - the one you really think is the best and you just HAVE to buy that....you know that feeling? I trooped from end to end, up and down the stairs and though my price range is limited so that I couldnt actually afford...what was it "Bushtracker"?.... it was the closest to what I wanted. Eg, they make an off road van with all the right suspension to make it safer when on or off road as well as have a lot of other goodies but mostly it was that you could custom design anything on the van at all.
I didnt get that "custom design" anywhere else. I was told by some that I could do this and do that which were not large changes and there were some vans with a reasonable though not great interior layout but nothing met what *I* wanted. This isnt to say there were no great vans but rather that I want what I want. Simple, you think? Nope.
So, I finally got thinking very much about what my dogs have now as opposed to what they WOULD have in a van (or indeed any other thing such as a camper or tent or whatever) if we sold the house and got onto the road never to come back. They are Chows, about Labrador sized though my boy is a TALL and HUGE Chow with enough strength to pull me off my feet if he is being naughty on the lead. What they have now is most of a half acre block to run around in, most of it Aussie bush block and let's face it, dogs need exercise amongst other things. In a van they would barely have (2 Chows) enough room on a day pouring rain, to walk past each other and I am talking about 23 and 24 footers that I saw (I lived in a 38 footer in the 70s for 2 years so maybe I am being a spoiled brat, here) so my question is really - you are travelling with your DOGS and so long as they are around Labrador sized (small dogs you can more easily accommodate), what do you do to exercise and entertain them? My two are good natured lovely Chows that will lay right beside each other and eat treats without any problems so sure, we can walk them on a lead but right now they get most of a half acre to run OFF lead on and if I let either of them off lead outside of a yard, I wouldnt ever see them again. I have trained Chows to walk off lead really well in the past but there are times when you know that they are too head strong to do that and these two (related to each other) are that type so wont ever be allowed off lead outside a yard.
I am really upset about this as I thought that even though I couldnt find my caravan "perfect match" I could find SOME way around it eventually but this problem with the dogs I cannot get around. Has anyone any ideas or help? Eg, I am travelling free camping or in a caravan park and I want to let them off lead in an enclosed area and given that there are precious few of those about, how do I let them do this? I have thought of those leads that extend and wind back in but they arent that long and if it is too long, the silly buggers would end up tying themselves up, no doubt. Any help appreciated because I am not sure that I will be able to sell up, buy the caravan and move onto the road with the dogs until I can fix this problem or if I can, wont be able to go at all. My youngest is 3 and an average life for a Chow where I live is 14. By the time she went I dont like my chances given health considerations.
No, I wont leave my dogs with someone else. I cannot understand people doing that but that is me. Thanks for any help.
We also had a Chow but he liked to get out and visit the neighbours and steal their chickens.
That said, I believe there are lots of lead free places to take your dogs and they will really enjoy travelling. Look up the internet and I think you will find a lot of options to take you dogs.
Gail,
Thanks for the reply but Goldens are, from about the age of 3 or so onwards, easily able to be trusted off lead with the right training. My two will NEVER be trusted off lead. Chows can be VERY headstrong and often let you know they disagree by grumbling to themselves as they walk off and so on. I love my dogs being able to be natural and I wouldnt want to force them into anything else and have them unhappy. The point is, not able to trust them off leads, what then? I think you mean you can trust yours off the lead. Is that right?
I have had Chows who would, if allowed, walk the block, never cross a road because I trained them that way, even to chase a cat etc but these two are not like that at all. As to stealing chickens, yes I knew a Chow breeder who also bred prize show poultry (chickens) and while she was out one day, a Chow of hers escaped the pen she was in (recently mated to a male and thought to be pregnant) and got into the chicken enclosure. The owner got home to see the Chow do what all Chows do when they catch something - grab it by the neck and without letting go, flick it over their heads to break the caught thing's neck. She put the Chow back and fixed the escape route and went back to the chicken roost to find that all the others had been cleanly plucked. None had been eaten and none otherwise marked in any way. I saw one of my own catch a HUGE rat when an excavator behind our first house went through the middle of a hidden rat nest and this one decided to run under the fence into our yard. With something like glee, she chaed and got it then flicked it as explained above without letting go and I heard a scream from the rat that sounded like a 5 year old human. My wife, transfixed in horror beside me, watched that Chow, who was MY girl, brought the new catch, apparently a great present and dumped it at my wife's feet. My wife started breathing in deeply to scream and I intejected "Pat her and tell her GOOD DOG" and that got my wife's attention who said, in a voice almost cracking "Why?". I replied "If you dont, the next one that comes across your feet may be alive" so she patted the Chow, told her what a good girl she was and rushed inside with all possible haste. I went to pick it up and the darned thing was still alive! It turned its head (couldnt move the body) to snap at me. I had to kill it before disposing of it.
Anyway, back on topic - I cannot trust my two at all and I dont believe there are many enclosed off leash areas anywhere around the country simply because councils dont like them and then they dont want to be sued by those using them. So if you know of any answers, I would appreciate it but so far no search has helped.
Unbelievable
I certainly would not want your dogs in an off lead park, or bush camp, with my little fella.
By your own admission they need to be tethered at all times if you ever go on the road.
Maybe even muzzled so they don't attack other animals or pick up bait.
I have no idea what it was that you were reading but on the off chance it had something to do with a nice bottle of Drambuie, could you pass it here? I think yours was off and I need to taste test it so next time you read, you dont read something that wasnt written. OTOH, I am a known taste tester of Drambuie! ;-}
No idea what you read but whatever you read wasnt in this thread so you might try again. All I said was that my two arent trustworthy off leash. I can call them and they wont come back. It isnt because they are dumb as doorposts but because they are too damned headstrong and would find adventure in any direction they pleased and I would have no chance of catching them. So whatever you read, I would love to publish that one in a fantasy section book! I reckon making stories from nothing is the backbone of a good author! Keep it up! Look at the millions J.K Rowlings made - you can do it, too, with an imagination like that! ;-}
I don't even have a dog and I read it the same .. sorry 'bout that !
Well, it only goes to show you that it is true - we all need to stop putting off getting our glasses prescriptions rechecked! ;-}
Oh wait - I think I see what I did. You know how you write something with what to say in mind and when you post it and have read it a lot of times, you still never see it? It said I trained them to chase a cat it looks like. It was meant to say I trained the dog so she would walk beside me off lead and would run to the edge of the road and stop and wouldnt even cross the road to chase a cat. That actually happened. I saw the cat on the other side of the road far too late and the Chow flew to the edge of the road (the cat being on the other side) and just stayed there whining and wanting to go over. No, none of my dogs ever caught a cat. Chows are generally not known to be agile but this one was...though not THAT agile. In fact we had a cat at that time that this Chow was still alive. We had 3 Chows, one full grown adult, one almost adult and not fully grown, a 9 month old and a Pomeranian. They saw our cat jump the fence into our yard and thought it would be fun to chase it though they knew full well this cat was a small looking female but a real tiger if she was provoked and it only took walking too close to her to provoke her if you were a dog! Anyway, they took off chasing the cat in descending order of height which was funny enough but the cat was in an exceptionally good mood this day and let them do it. They went three times around the yard until the cat came to adead stop in the manner that only cats can - eg, 100KPH or thereabouts to a 0KPH in about 6 inches!! The dogs skidded on the grass, still in line until the front one stopped and all the others rear ended each other still in line. They stopped looking at the cat and the cat licked her paw then turned around and started stalking the dogs. The dogs turned as one and started running back the other way in asccending height order and the cat chased THEM around the yard. The cat had come in response to the dinner call and I had to remind her just in case she caught the dogs. She had already put a Boxer in hospital and another dog and was about to do the same to a cattle dog when I called her off. Of course the cattle dog had just come into the yard to chase the kittens we had at the time and though she wasnt the mother of the kittens and barely tolerated them, the dog wasnt going to get away with that.
Sorry to all - I didnt teach any dog to chase a cat. I taught it to never cross the road. Of course, the dogs WOULD have chased the cat if on the same side of the road but as cats always were far too agile for them, no harm would have come of it and these Chows back then were trained by that cat of ours to be afraid of cats so even if one of mine DID corner a cat, they would have been too afraid to do anything more than that......though they did corner the gas meter reader once! ;-}
Sorry I must have mis read your post.
The above was enough for me to keep our little fella away from free running Chows anywhere, particularly yours as you say you cannot trust the two you have now.
I see some passion here,,,
Back to the OP,,,,,,,,, a simple dog run anywhere is a single wire 10. 30 or 50 metres long tied off to vehicles, vans, trees and fence posts. Clip the dogs onto the wire by say 2-5m lead and they can run. Obviously set up to avoid obstacles etc so dogs don't hurt themselves.
At the very least they get execise and are under control.
I may be off the subject ofthe OP, but I've seen these runs work for many people.
I think another poster on here was worried by teh sound of your dogs that perhaps they would kill a small dog such as a pug? I would be worried about my yorkie also.
Fenced off leash areas are very rare in my limited travel experience.
My 2 would still run and chase something so I do not let them off the lead unless it is definitely safe and no one else around. We exercise them at least twice a day which is good for us and good for them!! You say yours would be unhappy chained but they get used to things and they would be unhappy if you left them at home. You would also be unhappy if they did do something wrong.
To me the decision is easy, tie them up and exercise them well and you will all be happy.
We used to travel with a portable pen, and have also used a tethering system and long lead. Other people has quite clever fencing around their awning areas.
I agree with others, fenced off leash areas are rare.
Maybe you can get some ideas from here
http://www.traveldogsaustralia.com
"hi we travel with 2 dogs 1med the other small, they have plenty of free runs we find spots for them to go , and they have plenty of walks on leads also . always be careful of baits, in doubtful areas always put a muzzle on them :)"
Good point.
If you ever happen to stay at the Cania Gorge caravan park [ the one nearest the dam ] take a walk to the end of the park and get through the barbed wire fence. You'll see 2 concrete headstones. The result of dogs running uncontrolled, both victims of 1080.
It wasnt that they would be unhappy per se though they just may be. I would have to try it to be sure. Many Chows of adult years (3 or older) are very lazy dogs. 10 minutes of exercise and they think they have run 40 kilometres flat out! ;-} It is definitely me not happy with the idea of taking them on the road with no place to run off leash within a fenced off area. While they are happy with 10 minutes at a time of exercise, on a sunny day they can move around a lot and inspect other dogs walking the street, pretend they are king of the world and so on. Added to that, Chows love to bush bash which is basically "see a thicket and run at it full speed ahead". I have many Chow trails through my bush block made by JUST such acts. They are lovely dogs that wouldnt hurt a fly. The boy would run the other way rather than fight if attacked but the girl will stand her ground if attacked. We have visitors bring their dogs of all sizes over to our place and no problems. They both tend to want to sniff the new arrival and wont let the new one alone until they are happy so I keep an eye on it all in case the new one gets upset. Mother in law's poodle will snap at them for doing that but the boy doesnt seem to notice he is being snapped at and the girl thinks the poodle is playing and tends to try and jump up in the air and land on top of him. He is about 10Kg and she is about 25Kg.....one reason to watch when he first gets there. After a short while they both ignore him for the rest of the time. They do the same thing with any dog in the yard, even one that jumped the fence to say hello. Gave the girl a lot of reason to run around and try to play and the boy ran a short distance away! Funny thing is that when they are inside and someone knocks at the door, both charge to the door barking and growling and the boy has a deep throated really terrifying growl if you didnt know him while the girl is rather normal in her bark. Neither really do anything when the door is opened other than try to stickybeak!
Yes off leash areas are rare simply because they cause a lot of trouble when a nasty dog let off leash attacks someone else's dog. Councils CAN be sued by irate rate payers in such cases.
I have to say exercising on a leash probably is enough for a small dog say about the size of a Maltese but for Labrador sized dogs it really isnt unless you are a fit marathon runner and are happy to run a few kilometres with them while on leash. My dogs can cover half an acre before I can take a few steps. They come when called while in the yard but only MOST of the time, not all of it. I also like to train them against being frightened too easily by being down the hallway of our house and making a noise and when they come to investigate, jump out and scare them then roll around on the ground with them, make it a game and give them a treat. I do this because two Chows I had some time back were very FRIGHTENED girls, easily scared by anything. It occurred to me that someone's 6 year old child putting their hand through the fence to pat my scared ones back then may well end badly and my scare tactics worked well. Neither were actually frightened by anything much excepting lightning, after a solid 3 to 6 months of doing it every night. Sure they got used to what I was doing and that is part of the story. My current girl has taken up the game and plays it back on me. She likes to hide in the bush in the yard, especially at dusk and not make a noise until I am close then jump out at ME and run away jumping in the air thinking it is all good fun. Normally it is but when you think they may have escaped or it is raining, it isnt much fun. At those times she wont come until she has sprung her trap.
My boy likes to play inside more than out and stares at the girl until she comes to him to see what is going on then he whacks her in the face with a front paw and runs off. When playing, neither hear "come" unfortunately and honestly, about 37Kg of male chow and nearly 25kg of female Chow hitting you while playing isnt much fun so I like to get the girl worked up in the yard to play with the boy to blow it off outside. If he decides he will do it, he comes inside later and goes to sleep for hours. So you see, I have a real problem without an off leash area if I were permanently on the road. I still havent found anything that may work though. I am not sure I ever will but it also occurs to me that the more people talk about it if they see this as a problem, the more chance someone may come up with an answer.
Thanks for that. Looks like a genuine person.
I dont trust them off leash simply because they wouldnt come back. You have to know your dogs WILL come back to trust them off leash. I have trained Chows to be that way and an elderly old girl I had who died last year was that trustworthy EXCEPT if there was something interesting going on. Even then, I would call her name in a stern voice and she would quickly come to me. My current two couldnt be trusted to be off leash in a pink fit. I would never see them again. They would want to play with anything that moved and actually though I had the boy on leash, a Kanga surprised us when on holidays up near Coffs Harbour. A brand new area had been built out for residential and we were walking in it. Apparently no-one had bothered to tell the kangas anything and just built on their habitat. Anyway, a kanga hopped around the corner coming towards us. I stopped waiting to see what it would do and it stopped and eyed us off. My boy got really excited. He hadnt seen a mouse that size before!! He wanted to play with it. The kanga, as there were 2 Chows and my wife and I, decided to turn and go back the way it had come. As it did, a group of kids who all looked under 12 came around the corner. The poor kanga got such a shock he dived into the road. Fortunately, no traffic. The kids loved the dogs and the dogs loved the attention. One kid warned us about the rip in the surf off Safety Beach. He said:
"You can get pulled out to sea but dont worry as the current goes South and you will go past Woolgoolga and the life savers are almost always on duty. Just wave at them and they will come and get you. Dont know what would happen if you went past when they werent on duty. You'd probably end up in Wollongong!"
I found out, after listening to this earnest 10 year old, how hard it is to hold onto a leash and hold your guts at the same time while laughing. Funny little kid.
Yes, I have been asked to write stories many times. I grew up with a father from the Outback in Qld though. When I could do something REALLY well as a kid and would show off like kids do, he would bring me back to Earth with his Outback Qld "Common sense" approach. It amounted to the "tall poppy syndrome" really. You were brought up to try JUST enough to NOT stand out from the crowd and "Not be a smart a**e". I was actually picked for representative soccer and my father thought that wasnt a good thing. So while I occasionally DO write a story (I tend to find it easier to write science fiction strangely) and it is always well received, I also have my childhood programming stop me. If people like it, I stop doing it! ;-} Yeah yeah grow up and get over it and all. I guess at my age I am too old to be bothered with putting the energy into changing that! ;-}
BTW - and changing the topic - you can buy a jacket from Rivers that looks like leather though isnt (might be vinyl but I cant see anything to identify that and I have my doubts that it is vinyl) that looks for all the world like a copper's leather jacket. In my day job I always wear a blue shirt with breast pockets either side and pencil pocket on the left pocket. I also always wear black jeans and black shoes. The upshot is that when a guy pulled out in front of me and I almost t-boned his car into his driver door but JUST scraped around the rear of his car without touching him then pulled over to park, he came at me as if it was my fault then saw me get out of the car and stopped dead in his tracks. While I didnt mean to look like a copper, I actually must have, to him. If you can make them think twice it saves you getting into a problem with a car rage incident driver like that. I always have the crash cam on and when looking at it later saw the guy was looking left while pulling out in front of me. I think I might try to wear that jacket a lot. I rather like not being punched in the head! ;-}
Why do I feel I have just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this stuff???
I should have known better.
For God's (and our) sake give it a go on short local trial trip, and give us a break
.
Tether your dogs, wearing suitable chest padded harnesses, to the van next to your outdoor chairs, and then walk your dogs on lead 2 to 3km twice a day, and see how YOU go.
THEY will love it.
-- Edited by Ron and Shirley on Saturday 15th of June 2013 10:54:24 PM
I agree with you, Ron and Shirley.
Dogs adapt, they just want to be with you.
I think you forget they ARE DOGS, although you think they are "boys" and have such human like personalities, they are basically dogs. Despite your wish to customise your van and let them run free, you are doomed to be frustrated and beset with ongoing issues. It won't work, hasn't for others and won't for you.
Your dogs are basically no different to anyone else's, so take advice as offered- use you annex, keep them on a lead/chain or penned up, off lead in designated off lead areas only, don't let them make a nuisance of themselves with other travellers, pick up droppings and control barking.
Try is and see how you go.
Well said Ron and Shirley!!
Re looking like a copper, impersonating police is a criminal offence. I was a cop for 17 years and got "pulled over" once by some idiot Dressing like a cop. When I showed him my real police badge he was very sad...
As for writing stories, stay at home and do that, then the dogs can run free in your yard without annoying anyone.
I'm inclined to agree that the best way is to try it and see. My two may be small, but they are greyhounds and will chase kangaroos, rabbits, etc. and it's difficult to make them stop once they become focussed on the chase. So when in doubt, on lead is the only way. But I have found that when travelling they are not as confident of their surroundings as when at home, and are less inclined to run out of sight of my van. They are timid around people and generally give strangers a wide berth, so that's not a problem, but the smaller of mine has an unfortunate tendency to pick fights with big dogs (I confess I don't think they're the smartest breed of dog I've ever owned), so I always keep them on lead until I have checked out the surroundings and the attitude of other campers (if any). Luckily the breed tend to be couch potatoes as I couldn't walk "2 to 3km twice" a year these days (Anyone know where I can get a body transplant? This one's worn out)