I have bought an old caravan which has a couple of 240V lights, a 240V domestic fridge and a few 240V sockets. My initial thought was to be independent and convert to 12V with a 3 way fridge, 12V lighting etc etc. I looked at deep cycle batteries, chargers, inverters and even solar panels. The cost is HUGE. Am I better off with a cheap generator to run the fridge etc and a few rechageable lamps for the nights?
I'm not looking at being on the road more than a couple of years and hope to be able to hook into mains when fruit picking.
Andy
gst said
07:53 AM Jul 1, 2012
My first van was an old van cost $500 and it had no 12 volt only 240 v so got myself 12v battery and couple of lights and old car fridge and small gen then later picked up a second hand solar panel all did the job till I could up grade
-- Edited by gst on Sunday 1st of July 2012 09:13:17 AM
Yuglamron said
11:40 AM Jul 1, 2012
In a word Yes you do need 12 Volt if you want to have a little bit of independance.
What about the days when you cannot get in a CP or hook up to 240,all the stuff in your fridge is at risk.
You can start small and gradually add bit by bit.
Solar can wait till later,one of the first things I would do is set up the van with a 12 volt battery run from your tug through an anderson plug and a solenoid that cuts out if you run the battery too low.That will still give the main cranking battery power to start your tug.
Basically a two battery set up but with the second battery in the Van. Making sure you use a heavy cable to mitigate power loss in the cabling.The bigger the cable the better.
I am sure somone more qualified will come and give you advice on cable size etc.
A'Proper' caravan fridge can cost over a thousand so one of the smaller two way or three way fridges would be next on my list.
Go for as big a fridge that you can afford that would hold enough food for a couple of weeks .
No point having a small one unless you want to spend half your time shopping.
The lighting for the van.
I would go LED,a decent main light to cover as much as possible of the interior.
I have one about thirty Cm long that cost $59 from an RV/marine store and only draws .5 watts gives good coverage for 90% of the place.Would take a while to draw down a decent battery.Supposed to last for 50K hours.
Even the Bunnings solar panel LED shed light would be good for outside use.Run from a small solar panel included for under twenty bucks. about ten inches by four would be OK for an outside light.
I think you could do all that for a reasonable amount bit by bit and go solar later when you have made some moolah fruit picking.
There are always bargains about that crop up when you travel.Someone upgrading from a 60 to an 80 or 120 panel for example.Someone giving up travel and selling stuff cheaply.Happens all the time.Just have to be in the right place at the right time.
-- Edited by Yuglamron on Sunday 1st of July 2012 11:40:54 AM
Keith19837 said
07:21 PM Jul 1, 2012
Plodnalong wrote:
Hi All,
I have bought an old caravan which has a couple of 240V lights, a 240V domestic fridge and a few 240V sockets. My initial thought was to be independent and convert to 12V with a 3 way fridge, 12V lighting etc etc. I looked at deep cycle batteries, chargers, inverters and even solar panels. The cost is HUGE. Am I better off with a cheap generator to run the fridge etc and a few rechageable lamps for the nights?
I'm not looking at being on the road more than a couple of years and hope to be able to hook into mains when fruit picking.
Andy
You can use a generator but it will become expensive if that's all you use. Also, unless the genny is very quiet, you may be asked to 'go away' due to the noise. Some 240v appliances require a pretty big 'start up' output (a bit like a car starting off from stopped) before settling down to less output being required. Some appliances such as those with in built 'clocks' (computers etc) won't work very well off square wave gennys. You will probably need a larger rather than a small genny and this means you need to find space for it. If you are going the generator route, it might be an idea to get a cheap second hand one for 'trialling' rather than spend many hundreds or even a couple of thousands on a new unit only to find it might not work out for you. I do have a 3.5 kw genny for emergencies, free camping etc and have built a 'sound proof' box to keep the noise down but I've got a good size M.H. with room. I've also put mine on lawnmower wheels for easier moving. Collyn RIVERS has some articles on power for vans and M.H.s He includes generators (sine wave, square and modified square wave types), solar panels and battery systems. If you google Collyn Rivers Articles, there is a web site with alot of interesting stuff. For what it's worth.
-- Edited by Keith19837 on Sunday 1st of July 2012 07:23:54 PM
PeterD said
10:37 PM Jul 1, 2012
No you don't need a 12 V battery system installed. All the old vans had 12 V lighting driven through pin 2 on the trailer plug. You just need the hot wire from the battery in your tug to the trailer socket. We had trips where we stayed a week without 240 V power. Each night we just plugged the trailer plug into the tug. I had one van like that back in the 70s and another 2 in the 90s. We were very comfortable in every one. The fridge runs OK on gas I take it as you mentioned "My initial thought was to be independent and convert to 12V with a 3 way fridge, 12V lighting etc"
The next thing to consider is, do you want to be lazy and not have to hook up each night? If so then you can possibly get a week or two out of a 100 Ah battery. You just need a good multi stage battery charger to top it up every time you get within range of a mains power supply or run a generator for an afternoon once a week if you are not mobile. I don't stop much over a week in non powered sites so in the van I had from 1996 to 2004 I had a DC - DC charger that was powered from the tugs alternator whilst on the road (and no generator.) That would be cheaper than a full solar system.
If you like having expensive toys around you then you can up the anti and follow Yuglamron's directions. If you you don't want to splash your meagre resources around it is more a question of how little you can get away with and still make yourself comfortable. Campers used to make themselves comfortable with an ice chest and kerosene lights. It was the rich posers who had the gas lights and gas fridges.
jimricho said
04:28 AM Jul 2, 2012
You'll get as many different opinions as there are posts in this thread so I'll add mine....
1. Forget about generators, inverters, solar, charging from the car while on the move etc, at this stage. You can add any or all of these later as the need arises.
2. Replace the 240v fridge with a 3-way and have gas fitted (if not already installed for a stove). 3-ways are not the most efficient but they are the most convenient and least hassle. Ideally you would install a 12v circuit from the car's main battery via the solenoid as suggested above to keep the fridge going while on the move. If this circuit is not installed put some freezer bricks in the freezing compartment of the fridge and it is surprising how well the fridge will hold its cold while travelling. This is a trick that the "oldies" used in some of the older vans that didn't have a 12v fridge connection. Never run the fridge on gas while travelling.
3. Install a 100ah deep cycle battery, preferably AGM type and 240v multi-stage "smart" charger. (Ctek 7 amp or similar)
4. Install LED lights as previously suggested. They are very economical on their draw-down from the battery and you should get at least the week or two, that PeterD suggests, between needing to hook up to power for a recharge (or longer if using LED lights). You can leave the 240v lights in circuit for when you are on a powered site but these are too inefficient to make powering them from 12v (via an inverter) a serious proposition.
In summary, keep it it simple, start small and only add the fancy stuff later when you find you need it and the budget allows.
Jim
Plodnalong said
03:54 AM Jul 4, 2012
Thanks for all your great suggestions. I like, in no particular order, LED lights and battery lasting ages, gas fridge (ie 3 way - but can one get one that is just gas, or would a 3 way be cheaper due to economies of scale ie they make more?), solar outdoor lights from Bunnings, looking for bagains when others upgrade (my first dishwasher, years ago, was from a chap who said he was upgrading as his wife wanted to push buttons rather than turn knobs - worked pefectly!), freezer bricks for the moving days. I notice that no-one seems over keen on generators (but thanks for your suggestions Keith) though the van's previous owner just used a genny and never bothered with anything else. Perhaps she spent most of her time in van parks and hardly ever needed to use it. Next stops are Bunnings, LED lighting place (probably an RV place), and Internet to search for fridges, unless anyone out there is thinking of upgrading to one with buttons rather than knobs - colour irrelevant!
jimricho said
06:47 AM Jul 4, 2012
The fridge will be a 3-way. I very much doubt that there is such an animal as a gas-only caravan fridge. 3-ways aren't cheap but it would be money better spent than on a generator.
I'm not a generator person myself but many do have and use generators. The lack of enthusiasm here is that with a 240v-only fridge you will have to set up the "genny" every time you do not have "ground" power available. This I would find quite inconvenient and in certain places generators are banned or time of day restricted. One way to make yourself unpopular with your fellow campers is to run a generator all night.
Re the battery set-up: If the purchase of the 3-way drains the budget you may find a jump starter battery pack may give you sufficient battery capacity if you are only using it to power LEDs and nothing else. If you do this I would recommend you go for the largest capacity available such as the 1900 amp job that is available from Supercheap. These have an amphour capacity of over 30ah. I use one of these myself as a backup for both my house battery in the van and the auxiliary battery in the car.
I don't know what the camping/RV store situation is in Bowen but there is a very good one in Cannonvale if you're down that way. It's on the left hand side coming into town before you get to Woolworths/BigW etc. They are also in the caravan repair business so may be worth a trip down there to talk about your fridge set up.
Jim
-- Edited by jimricho on Wednesday 4th of July 2012 07:20:33 AM
patrolst said
05:33 PM Jul 23, 2012
Could you show us a photo of your light fittings are they the older caravan type with the 240vlt and 12volt globes in the one fitting.
Hi All,
I have bought an old caravan which has a couple of 240V lights, a 240V domestic fridge and a few 240V sockets. My initial thought was to be independent and convert to 12V with a 3 way fridge, 12V lighting etc etc. I looked at deep cycle batteries, chargers, inverters and even solar panels. The cost is HUGE. Am I better off with a cheap generator to run the fridge etc and a few rechageable lamps for the nights?
I'm not looking at being on the road more than a couple of years and hope to be able to hook into mains when fruit picking.
Andy
My first van was an old van cost $500 and it had no 12 volt only 240 v so got myself 12v battery and couple of lights and old car fridge and small gen then later picked up a second hand solar panel all did the job till I could up grade
-- Edited by gst on Sunday 1st of July 2012 09:13:17 AM
In a word Yes you do need 12 Volt if you want to have a little bit of independance.
What about the days when you cannot get in a CP or hook up to 240,all the stuff in your fridge is at risk.
You can start small and gradually add bit by bit.
Solar can wait till later,one of the first things I would do is set up the van with a 12 volt battery run from your tug through an anderson plug and a solenoid that cuts out if you run the battery too low.That will still give the main cranking battery power to start your tug.
Basically a two battery set up but with the second battery in the Van. Making sure you use a heavy cable to mitigate power loss in the cabling.The bigger the cable the better.
I am sure somone more qualified will come and give you advice on cable size etc.
A'Proper' caravan fridge can cost over a thousand so one of the smaller two way or three way fridges would be next on my list.
Go for as big a fridge that you can afford that would hold enough food for a couple of weeks .
No point having a small one unless you want to spend half your time shopping.
The lighting for the van.
I would go LED,a decent main light to cover as much as possible of the interior.
I have one about thirty Cm long that cost $59 from an RV/marine store and only draws .5 watts gives good coverage for 90% of the place.Would take a while to draw down a decent battery.Supposed to last for 50K hours.
Even the Bunnings solar panel LED shed light would be good for outside use.Run from a small solar panel included for under twenty bucks. about ten inches by four would be OK for an outside light.
I think you could do all that for a reasonable amount bit by bit and go solar later when you have made some moolah fruit picking.
There are always bargains about that crop up when you travel.Someone upgrading from a 60 to an 80 or 120 panel for example.Someone giving up travel and selling stuff cheaply.Happens all the time.Just have to be in the right place at the right time.
-- Edited by Yuglamron on Sunday 1st of July 2012 11:40:54 AM
You can use a generator but it will become expensive if that's all you use. Also, unless the genny is very quiet, you may be asked to 'go away' due to the noise. Some 240v appliances require a pretty big 'start up' output (a bit like a car starting off from stopped) before settling down to less output being required. Some appliances such as those with in built 'clocks' (computers etc) won't work very well off square wave gennys. You will probably need a larger rather than a small genny and this means you need to find space for it. If you are going the generator route, it might be an idea to get a cheap second hand one for 'trialling' rather than spend many hundreds or even a couple of thousands on a new unit only to find it might not work out for you. I do have a 3.5 kw genny for emergencies, free camping etc and have built a 'sound proof' box to keep the noise down but I've got a good size M.H. with room. I've also put mine on lawnmower wheels for easier moving. Collyn RIVERS has some articles on power for vans and M.H.s He includes generators (sine wave, square and modified square wave types), solar panels and battery systems. If you google Collyn Rivers Articles, there is a web site with alot of interesting stuff. For what it's worth.
-- Edited by Keith19837 on Sunday 1st of July 2012 07:23:54 PM
The next thing to consider is, do you want to be lazy and not have to hook up each night? If so then you can possibly get a week or two out of a 100 Ah battery. You just need a good multi stage battery charger to top it up every time you get within range of a mains power supply or run a generator for an afternoon once a week if you are not mobile. I don't stop much over a week in non powered sites so in the van I had from 1996 to 2004 I had a DC - DC charger that was powered from the tugs alternator whilst on the road (and no generator.) That would be cheaper than a full solar system.
If you like having expensive toys around you then you can up the anti and follow Yuglamron's directions. If you you don't want to splash your meagre resources around it is more a question of how little you can get away with and still make yourself comfortable. Campers used to make themselves comfortable with an ice chest and kerosene lights. It was the rich posers who had the gas lights and gas fridges.
1. Forget about generators, inverters, solar, charging from the car while on the move etc, at this stage. You can add any or all of these later as the need arises.
2. Replace the 240v fridge with a 3-way and have gas fitted (if not already installed for a stove). 3-ways are not the most efficient but they are the most convenient and least hassle. Ideally you would install a 12v circuit from the car's main battery via the solenoid as suggested above to keep the fridge going while on the move. If this circuit is not installed put some freezer bricks in the freezing compartment of the fridge and it is surprising how well the fridge will hold its cold while travelling. This is a trick that the "oldies" used in some of the older vans that didn't have a 12v fridge connection. Never run the fridge on gas while travelling.
3. Install a 100ah deep cycle battery, preferably AGM type and 240v multi-stage "smart" charger. (Ctek 7 amp or similar)
4. Install LED lights as previously suggested. They are very economical on their draw-down from the battery and you should get at least the week or two, that PeterD suggests, between needing to hook up to power for a recharge (or longer if using LED lights). You can leave the 240v lights in circuit for when you are on a powered site but these are too inefficient to make powering them from 12v (via an inverter) a serious proposition.
In summary, keep it it simple, start small and only add the fancy stuff later when you find you need it and the budget allows.
Jim
I notice that no-one seems over keen on generators (but thanks for your suggestions Keith) though the van's previous owner just used a genny and never bothered with anything else. Perhaps she spent most of her time in van parks and hardly ever needed to use it.
Next stops are Bunnings, LED lighting place (probably an RV place), and Internet to search for fridges, unless anyone out there is thinking of upgrading to one with buttons rather than knobs - colour irrelevant!
The fridge will be a 3-way. I very much doubt that there is such an animal as a gas-only caravan fridge. 3-ways aren't cheap but it would be money better spent than on a generator.
I'm not a generator person myself but many do have and use generators. The lack of enthusiasm here is that with a 240v-only fridge you will have to set up the "genny" every time you do not have "ground" power available. This I would find quite inconvenient and in certain places generators are banned or time of day restricted. One way to make yourself unpopular with your fellow campers is to run a generator all night.
Re the battery set-up: If the purchase of the 3-way drains the budget you may find a jump starter battery pack may give you sufficient battery capacity if you are only using it to power LEDs and nothing else. If you do this I would recommend you go for the largest capacity available such as the 1900 amp job that is available from Supercheap. These have an amphour capacity of over 30ah. I use one of these myself as a backup for both my house battery in the van and the auxiliary battery in the car.
I don't know what the camping/RV store situation is in Bowen but there is a very good one in Cannonvale if you're down that way. It's on the left hand side coming into town before you get to Woolworths/BigW etc. They are also in the caravan repair business so may be worth a trip down there to talk about your fridge set up.
Jim
-- Edited by jimricho on Wednesday 4th of July 2012 07:20:33 AM
Could you show us a photo of your light fittings are they the older caravan type with the 240vlt and 12volt globes in the one fitting.