We are currently looking into purchasing CLEARVIEW TOWING MIRRORS for our toyota prado,but have just been reading testimonials and while they are great I read that they aren`t legal and people are being pulled over by the police and being told to remove them. Is there anyone out there that has known of this ?
the rocket said
05:16 PM Jan 12, 2012
Haven't heard of that. Rocket n Strop
Cupie said
05:42 PM Jan 12, 2012
The Clear View website says that they are legal.
My mate put them on his Patrol & swears by them .. Much better than the Truck mirrors that he had previously .. he says.
Bit pricey though.
rockylizard said
05:53 PM Jan 12, 2012
Gday...
Just went to my usual 'source' (Google ) ... and found the Clear View Mirror site ... all obvious sales pitch .. including saying they are 'legal'.
I did found some comment from a couple of other forums that they 'knew a bloke' who had been pulled over by a policeperson and given a ticket to remove them and re-present the vehicle to prove they had been removed. These were posters from WA.
One poster was asked to provide the current ADR that says why they were illegal but no response.
So, I dunno if they are or are not legal from that effort.
Quite a few said they were very wide for getting into their garage and/or parking spots without the van.
I must admit my original Aussie Truck Mirrors needed to be removed so I could get into parking spots. Similiarly, the Ora Big Reds I use now - if I am going into town to shop, off come the mirrors. So if they are that wide and stuck on the vehicle, may be a bit of a problem.
Cheers
John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 12th of January 2012 05:55:30 PM
Dellalan said
06:29 PM Jan 12, 2012
I have a set on my Prado and they are worth every cent. Mine have been on the car permanently for about the last 6 months, and I have been driving around the Perth metro area, without any problems. Although we don't see too many Mr Plods patrolling the roads here. Mainly speed cameras and red light cameras. So not sure what would happen if pulled over.
You have to be careful in some tight spots, but if needed I just pull them in, when parked. I have a normal sized double garage at home and park the Prado and Ford ute in there.
I didn't have them on the last trip I did. I relied solely on my rear cameras in car and van. Had perfect view down the road. I got pulled over by a friendly motor cycle cop between Adelaide and Port Augusta and he gave me a written warning for not having mirrors. Said legislation hadn't caught up to just allow cameras. So I decided to go with the Clearview ones. They are great. But be interested to find out if there are any legal issues.
Alan
Gerty Dancer said
06:50 PM Jan 12, 2012
Yes we have had the clearview mirrors on the Prado for almost a year, travelled 20 000 k's with them on the last trip and love them!! So many people came to ask about them and my partner would sing their praises every time. No more putting mirrors on/ taking off every time you hitch/unhitch. Easy to fold in if you are in a tight spot in a supermarket carpark. And I particularly like having just one large mirror to look into when I'm driving. They are a bit tight in the home garage door but it only took 15 minutes to take them off and replace with the regular mirrors, as we werent planning another trip for a few months. Nobody has ever mentioned anything about them being illegal. Cant see how they could be, as they are the same size as Winnebago mirrors.
They are worth every cent!
Two Strays said
06:56 PM Jan 12, 2012
I have a set of Clearview Mirrrors fitted to my 2011 LC200. They have been on the vehicle since new and I have had no complaints from any state police. I have been pulled up for a FBT twice since fitting them with no additional comment.
In 2011 we travelled 26000km from Melb to Perth via Darwin with no problems from the mirrors. I find them to be well worth the money, once you get used to the extra width, particulary in the carpark.
This is the first time I have heard about the subject of their legality. Similiar type of mirrors are fitted to the Ford 250 with no problems.
I would recommend them to any caravanner. They eliminate any damage to the paint work or windows caused by the attachment type mirrors.
Ron and Shirley said
07:25 PM Jan 12, 2012
IMHO they are the greatest side mirrors, whether towing or just driving around. The field of view is just so much better than that of our Patrols factory mirrors around town. We have had ours since Jan 2010, and previously tried all types of towing mirror but these absolutely leave the others for dead.
Legality
This came up on the Caravaners Forum.
The relevant ADR is Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 14/02
Where the lower edge of an exterior mirror is less than 2 m above the ground when the vehicle is loaded to its technically permissible maximum laden mass, this mirror must not project more than 250 mm beyond the overall width of the vehicle measured without mirrors.
So it is based on the widest point of the vehicle, not from the position of the mirror on the vehicles body.
Yes mine are Legal.
Popeye said
07:48 PM Jan 12, 2012
This should put your mind at ease
Hi All, Well it's time to retract my post about the legalities of the Clearview Mirror, I have just got off the phone with Mike Cowan of Clearview Mirrors, we had a very extensive conversion about the product, the thoughts behind the product and how the product has developed and his plans for the future. The Australian Design Rule states that the mirror shall not protrude more than 250mm past the widest part of the car, not the door or window as we have previously been told, the Landcruiser 200 meets the requirements by mms but still remains within the 250mm. After a lengthy conversation I found out that Mark is in Perth for the 4WD show this weekend so I encourage people to go down and have a look at the product.
ozjohn said
07:55 PM Jan 12, 2012
The mirrors must not project more than 150mm beyond the width of the vehicle when a trailer is not attached.
OJ
Ref: VSI18 Oct 2008
Note:Projection of mirrors (Extract)
Where the trailer is wider than the towing vehicle, side mirrors on the towing vehicle may project beyond the extreme width of the trailer.
However, when the trailer is detached, these mirrors must be removed if they project more than 150mm beyond the extreme width of the towing vehicle.
( In the case of the Clearview they would have to be retracted to no more than 150mm)
Heavy Vehicles:
In the case of vehicles of more than 3.5 tonnes Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM), collapsible mirrors may project up to 230mm beyond the width of the vehicle provided they are capable of collapsing to 150mm.
PS> Please ask Mark to post or provide a URL to the approprate legislation that says 250mm when a trailer is not attached.
-- Edited by ozjohn on Thursday 12th of January 2012 07:56:48 PM
-- Edited by ozjohn on Thursday 12th of January 2012 08:00:14 PM
daffy said
08:27 PM Jan 12, 2012
thanks everyone for you replies yeah I think I`ll have to stick with my truck mirrors,there good also just that they bugger the window rubbers and have scratched the windows.
Smokeydk said
08:51 PM Jan 12, 2012
Had Aussie truck mirrors on my Paj.till I got pulled over and told they were too wide and I had to remove them......luckly for me my van is about 1" wider than the Paj.....or I would have been in lot of trouble.....
I've heard on Forums..Clearview...had some problems with rusty water getting in...
justcruisin01 said
09:57 PM Jan 12, 2012
daffy wrote:
thanks everyone for you replies yeah I think I`ll have to stick with my truck mirrors,there good also just that they bugger the window rubbers and have scratched the windows.
I use these & I fit the mounts under the window rubbers & directly on the door top .No damage & you get a firmer fit, this is the only way I have ever fitted them & would not consider fitting on to of the rubber.
I am experimenting with mounting the L/H mirror head in a vertical position verses the horizontal as per standard. This has given a much better depth of veiw down the road, & side of the van & wheels.
Have only done a hour run so far but liked it, will convert R/H side before we leave again.
JC.
Gary said
10:52 AM Jan 13, 2012
justcruisin01 wrote:
daffy wrote:
thanks everyone for you replies yeah I think I`ll have to stick with my truck mirrors,there good also just that they bugger the window rubbers and have scratched the windows.
I use these & I fit the mounts under the window rubbers & directly on the door top .No damage & you get a firmer fit, this is the only way I have ever fitted them & would not consider fitting on to of the rubber.
I am experimenting with mounting the L/H mirror head in a vertical position verses the horizontal as per standard. This has given a much better depth of veiw down the road, & side of the van & wheels.
Have only done a hour run so far but liked it, will convert R/H side before we leave again.
JC.
I find that I can leave the truck mirriors set horizontally on both sides and they are out beyond the standard mirrors on the vehicle. This allows me to adjust the standard mirrors downward so that I can see the area along much of lower sides of the van. I particularly like to be able to see at least the tyres on the front axle of the van in case of developing problems in that area. It's easy if needed from time to time with the standard mirrors being electrically operated from the driver's seat to make small or larger focusing adjustments while driving. Gary
Dunco said
12:30 PM Jan 13, 2012
I just read some ADR's and it said
"The minors(sp) may project 230 mm on each side beyond the point of 'Overall Width' of the vehicle provided that the mirror is capable of collapsing to 150 mm." (Yes, it did have a spelling mistake)
Nothing about heavy vehicles there OJ.
Even though it may be an ADR, there is nothing I can find where you would be issued with an on the spot fine....maybe a defect notice, but I doubt it very very much as cops have better things to do and defects are usually for hoon drivers, not old buggers like us
And in saying all that, I have had a set on my Landcruiser for over 12 months with no problems....and they do NOT damage the door like the Aussie mirrors I had...best towing mirrors I have tried and will not go back to anything else.
And if I did get pulled over for them I would certainly be arguing the point with the Police !!
ozjohn said
02:23 PM Jan 13, 2012
Hiya Garry,
I added the HEAVY VEHICLE heading in my post to avoid any confusion with the preceeding text.
The ADR also includes as I posted under the Heavy Vehicle Heading. "In the case of vehicles of more than 3.5 tonnes Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM), collapsible mirrors may project up to 230mm beyond the width of the vehicle provided they are capable of collapsing to 150mm".
Such as the mirrors on trucks etc. OJ
justcruisin01 said
08:04 PM Jan 13, 2012
Gary wrote:
justcruisin01 wrote:
daffy wrote:
thanks everyone for you replies yeah I think I`ll have to stick with my truck mirrors,there good also just that they bugger the window rubbers and have scratched the windows.
I use these & I fit the mounts under the window rubbers & directly on the door top .No damage & you get a firmer fit, this is the only way I have ever fitted them & would not consider fitting on to of the rubber.
I am experimenting with mounting the L/H mirror head in a vertical position verses the horizontal as per standard. This has given a much better depth of veiw down the road, & side of the van & wheels.
Have only done a hour run so far but liked it, will convert R/H side before we leave again.
JC.
I find that I can leave the truck mirriors set horizontally on both sides and they are out beyond the standard mirrors on the vehicle. This allows me to adjust the standard mirrors downward so that I can see the area along much of lower sides of the van. I particularly like to be able to see at least the tyres on the front axle of the van in case of developing problems in that area. It's easy if needed from time to time with the standard mirrors being electrically operated from the driver's seat to make small or larger focusing adjustments while driving. Gary
That sounds ok as well, but dont have the luxury of elect ones, however I did have a customers car in the shop long ago with a trailer attached, being able to adjust the L/H elect. mirror out wide as I backed it out of the driveway was a great advantage.
A little cheating but what the hell.
JC.
rodandjean said
10:31 AM Jan 14, 2012
Hi Justcruisin
This is the modification that I made to my truck mirrors. The horizontal bar was made almost the full length of the frame so I can adjust them outwards but not inwards. I have also added a bolt to the adjustable bar to the mirror frame as well. To get the correct material you willl have to go to any aluminium supplier who also has a laser cutter because of the measurements of the aluminium bar which needs to be specially made as it is not a standard size off the shelf. (See attached picture)
-- Edited by rodandjean on Saturday 14th of January 2012 10:39:59 AM
Boroma577 said
04:48 AM Jan 21, 2012
I have Clearview mirrors on my Landcruiser and have had them for more than 2 years now. I have travelled extensively through SA, NSW and Qld during that time and with no issues.
I have been pulled up for breathalyser testing on a few occasions and no issues.
I have had a police officer actually come up to me and comment on them so I doubt very much they'd be illegal.
I also can't see Mike Cowan, the owner of the company putting out all that money on establishing his business around them without doing his homework first.
They are without doubt the best mirror on the market IMO and as far as being illegal....well I can't see that being the case.
Two of my family members also have them on their vehicles and again with no issues.
Boroma577 said
05:02 AM Jan 21, 2012
Dunco wrote:
I just read some ADR's and it said
"The minors(sp) may project 230 mm on each side beyond the point of 'Overall Width' of the vehicle provided that the mirror is capable of collapsing to 150 mm." (Yes, it did have a spelling mistake)
Dunco, is it possible for you to post the link here for those ADR specifications??
ashpix said
11:36 PM Jun 27, 2014
Legal or not. Victoria Police fit them to their TLC 200s. If you need em, fit em.
We are currently looking into purchasing CLEARVIEW TOWING MIRRORS for our toyota prado,but have just been reading testimonials and while they are great I read that they aren`t legal and people are being pulled over by the police and being told to remove them. Is there anyone out there that has known of this ?
Haven't heard of that. Rocket n Strop
The Clear View website says that they are legal.
My mate put them on his Patrol & swears by them .. Much better than the Truck mirrors that he had previously .. he says.
Bit pricey though.
Gday...
Just went to my usual 'source' (Google
) ... and found the Clear View Mirror site ... all obvious sales pitch .. including saying they are 'legal'.
I did found some comment from a couple of other forums that they 'knew a bloke' who had been pulled over by a policeperson and given a ticket to remove them and re-present the vehicle to prove they had been removed. These were posters from WA.
One poster was asked to provide the current ADR that says why they were illegal but no response.
So, I dunno if they are or are not legal from that effort.
Quite a few said they were very wide for getting into their garage and/or parking spots without the van.
I must admit my original Aussie Truck Mirrors needed to be removed so I could get into parking spots. Similiarly, the Ora Big Reds I use now - if I am going into town to shop, off come the mirrors. So if they are that wide and stuck on the vehicle, may be a bit of a problem.
Cheers
John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 12th of January 2012 05:55:30 PM
You have to be careful in some tight spots, but if needed I just pull them in, when parked. I have a normal sized double garage at home and park the Prado and Ford ute in there.
I didn't have them on the last trip I did. I relied solely on my rear cameras in car and van. Had perfect view down the road. I got pulled over by a friendly motor cycle cop between Adelaide and Port Augusta and he gave me a written warning for not having mirrors. Said legislation hadn't caught up to just allow cameras. So I decided to go with the Clearview ones. They are great. But be interested to find out if there are any legal issues.
Alan
They are worth every cent!
I have a set of Clearview Mirrrors fitted to my 2011 LC200. They have been on the vehicle since new and I have had no complaints from any state police. I have been pulled up for a FBT twice since fitting them with no additional comment.
In 2011 we travelled 26000km from Melb to Perth via Darwin with no problems from the mirrors. I find them to be well worth the money, once you get used to the extra width, particulary in the carpark.
This is the first time I have heard about the subject of their legality. Similiar type of mirrors are fitted to the Ford 250 with no problems.
I would recommend them to any caravanner. They eliminate any damage to the paint work or windows caused by the attachment type mirrors.
IMHO they are the greatest side mirrors, whether towing or just driving around. The field of view is just so much better than that of our Patrols factory mirrors around town. We have had ours since Jan 2010, and previously tried all types of towing mirror but these absolutely leave the others for dead.
Legality
This came up on the Caravaners Forum.
The relevant ADR is Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 14/02
Rear Vision Mirrors) 2006. (pdf file download http://tinyurl.com/74pfes7)
Page 33 Para 15.2.2.6 states:
Where the lower edge of an exterior mirror is less than 2 m above the ground when the vehicle is loaded to its technically permissible maximum laden mass, this mirror must not project more than 250 mm beyond the overall width of the vehicle measured without mirrors.
So it is based on the widest point of the vehicle, not from the position of the mirror on the vehicles body.
Yes mine are Legal.
This should put your mind at ease
Hi All,
Well it's time to retract my post about the legalities of the Clearview Mirror, I have just got off the phone with Mike Cowan of Clearview Mirrors, we had a very extensive conversion about the product, the thoughts behind the product and how the product has developed and his plans for the future.
The Australian Design Rule states that the mirror shall not protrude more than 250mm past the widest part of the car, not the door or window as we have previously been told, the Landcruiser 200 meets the requirements by mms but still remains within the 250mm.
After a lengthy conversation I found out that Mark is in Perth for the 4WD show this weekend so I encourage people to go down and have a look at the product.
The mirrors must not project more than 150mm beyond the width of the vehicle when a trailer is not attached.
OJ
Ref: VSI 18 Oct 2008
Note: Projection of mirrors (Extract)
Where the trailer is wider than the towing vehicle, side mirrors on the towing vehicle may project beyond the extreme width of the trailer.
However, when the trailer is detached, these mirrors must be removed if they project more than 150mm beyond the extreme width of the towing vehicle.
( In the case of the Clearview they would have to be retracted to no more than 150mm)
Heavy Vehicles:
In the case of vehicles of more than 3.5 tonnes Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM), collapsible mirrors may project up to 230mm beyond the width of the vehicle provided they are capable of collapsing to 150mm.
PS> Please ask Mark to post or provide a URL to the approprate legislation that says 250mm when a trailer is not attached.
-- Edited by ozjohn on Thursday 12th of January 2012 07:56:48 PM
-- Edited by ozjohn on Thursday 12th of January 2012 08:00:14 PM
I've heard on Forums..Clearview...had some problems with rusty water getting in...
I use these & I fit the mounts under the window rubbers & directly on the door top .No damage & you get a firmer fit, this is the only way I have ever fitted them & would not consider fitting on to of the rubber.
I am experimenting with mounting the L/H mirror head in a vertical position verses the horizontal as per standard. This has given a much better depth of veiw down the road, & side of the van & wheels.
Have only done a hour run so far but liked it, will convert R/H side before we leave again.
JC.
I find that I can leave the truck mirriors set horizontally on both sides and they are out beyond the standard mirrors on the vehicle. This allows me to adjust the standard mirrors downward so that I can see the area along much of lower sides of the van. I particularly like to be able to see at least the tyres on the front axle of the van in case of developing problems in that area. It's easy if needed from time to time with the standard mirrors being electrically operated from the driver's seat to make small or larger focusing adjustments while driving. Gary
I just read some ADR's and it said
"The minors(sp) may project 230 mm on each side beyond the point of
'Overall Width' of the vehicle provided that the mirror is capable of
collapsing to 150 mm." (Yes, it did have a spelling mistake)
Nothing about heavy vehicles there OJ.
Even though it may be an ADR, there is nothing I can find where you would be issued with an on the spot fine....maybe a defect notice, but I doubt it very very much as cops have better things to do and defects are usually for hoon drivers, not old buggers like us
And in saying all that, I have had a set on my Landcruiser for over 12 months with no problems....and they do NOT damage the door like the Aussie mirrors I had...best towing mirrors I have tried and will not go back to anything else.
And if I did get pulled over for them I would certainly be arguing the point with the Police !!
Hiya Garry,
I added the HEAVY VEHICLE heading in my post to avoid any confusion with the preceeding text.
The ADR also includes as I posted under the Heavy Vehicle Heading.
"In the case of vehicles of more than 3.5 tonnes Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM), collapsible mirrors may project up to 230mm beyond the width of the vehicle provided they are capable of collapsing to 150mm".
Such as the mirrors on trucks etc.
OJ
That sounds ok as well, but dont have the luxury of elect ones, however I did have a customers car in the shop long ago with a trailer attached, being able to adjust the L/H elect. mirror out wide as I backed it out of the driveway was a great advantage.
A little cheating but what the hell.
JC.
This is the modification that I made to my truck mirrors. The horizontal bar was made almost the full length of the frame so I can adjust them outwards but not inwards. I have also added a bolt to the adjustable bar to the mirror frame as well. To get the correct material you willl have to go to any aluminium supplier who also has a laser cutter because of the measurements of the aluminium bar which needs to be specially made as it is not a standard size off the shelf. (See attached picture)
-- Edited by rodandjean on Saturday 14th of January 2012 10:39:59 AM
I have Clearview mirrors on my Landcruiser and have had them for more than 2 years now. I have travelled extensively through SA, NSW and Qld during that time and with no issues.
I have been pulled up for breathalyser testing on a few occasions and no issues.
I have had a police officer actually come up to me and comment on them so I doubt very much they'd be illegal.
I also can't see Mike Cowan, the owner of the company putting out all that money on establishing his business around them without doing his homework first.
They are without doubt the best mirror on the market IMO and as far as being illegal....well I can't see that being the case.
Two of my family members also have them on their vehicles and again with no issues.
Dunco, is it possible for you to post the link here for those ADR specifications??