I have an auto and Someone said to me last week, if i wanted to save my gearbox to drive using only up to 3rd gear and NEVER past that, is that correct? I have a 6 speed auto with the ability to drop back the gears (not sure what you call that gear system). It was also mentioned that a second cooler on the gearbox helps.
I'm assuming if you drive only using three gears then your revs are higher so using more fuel??
Tess
rockylizard said
08:40 AM Jan 10, 2012
Gday...
I am sure there will be a flurry of good advice ensuring. However, while they catch up, would assist if we knew the vehicle and whether you are towing etc.
Without knowing the vehicle and how it is used, I would suggest the advice is a little ill-informed.
A modern auto transmission is a complex, but highly intelligent bit of kit. Given you say it is a 6-speed auto, I would assume it is modern. If so, then I would suggest that you leave it in D 90% of the time and let it use its intelligence to decide what the motor needs to work at its optimum.
If towing, then I would do the same unless going down a steep(ish) hill when I would use the apparent ability you have to 'select' a gear and downshift to a lower gear yourself. This will assist the motor in holding the load rather than 'running away'.
Regarding the need to fit a 'second' cooler would depend on what type of vehicle, how you use the vehicle and what you are experiencing.
Regarding fuel economy - driving in 3rd of 6 gears would definitely give a higher fuel consumption and without knowing the vehicle I would suggest it is unnecessary. It again depends on the vehicle/transmission regarding using the 'overdrive' gear when towing.
Having said all that, again it would be helpful to know more about the vehicle and how you are using it.
Cheers
John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 08:46:53 AM
Evie n Rhys said
08:50 AM Jan 10, 2012
Hi john, sorry about that. It's a 2007 Ford fairmont and a territory and yes I am towing an Avan 1280kg. I used the lower gears across the snowy mountains and it worked a treat. different car and different van take a bit of getting used to. Thanks Tess
rockylizard said
09:03 AM Jan 10, 2012
Gday...
Thanks. The Ford Fairmont's 6-speed transmission is the same transmission I have in my LandRover Discovery 3 and it is an excellent box.
I have now towed my 23ft 2600kg tandem van for about 30,000km using 'D' and it sits in 5th gear predominantly and rarely selects 6th gear. It decides to change back to 4th or 3rd when conditions require it. The Discovery motor gets its max torque at 1900rpm and the transmission keeps the motor at or above that rpm depending on conditions when under load. There are some hills I have manually selected 2nd gear to descend.
I am not sure whether the Territory has the same transmission as the Fairmont but I would not be surprised if it does.
There are some who suggest fitting a cooler to the transmission in 2WD vehicles such as Ford and Holden, but given the load you are towing I would doubt if the temp guage shows much variation. May be different climbing long hills on very hot days.
My rule of thumb would be to keep a watchful eye on the temp guage and if it shows rises in temp that don't quickly reduce down hill then I would consider fitting a cooler.
Cheers
John
Evie n Rhys said
09:20 AM Jan 10, 2012
Thanks for that John. I think your right about the Territory gearbox. I believe the motor is the same. It's all trial and error isn't it? It certainly helps to read this forum and hear of others experiences. Cheers Tess
justcruisin01 said
09:22 PM Jan 10, 2012
any auto that is used for towing should have a external cooler fitted. If you have enough room to fit a large cooler then you can bypass the original cooler located in the bottom tank of the radiator, this will eliminate the extra heat from the tranny being piped through the engine cooling system, therefore keeping engine temp down as well.
The original cooler is only a tube running through the bottom tank of the radiator, not what you would call efficient.
JC.
Evie n Rhys said
10:25 PM Jan 10, 2012
Thanks JC I think it was you who told me about that at Greens. Alzheimer's must not have taken hold quite yet. Cheers Tess
rockylizard said
10:29 PM Jan 10, 2012
justcruisin01 wrote:
any auto that is used for towing should have a external cooler fitted. JC.
Gday...
even if you are experiencing no overheating problems?
cheers
John
snapper49 said
10:51 PM Jan 10, 2012
Yes all autos should have an extra cooler fitted even if you are not experiencing heating problems I also drive a territory but mine is 4 speed all towing done in 3rd and in sequential sport shift mode not auto mode 6 speed shouldnt be much different not sure what gear you should run in though Im pretty sure you will find in your manual a detailed summary of how to tow with your terri and Im pretty sure you should be using sportshift mode not auto I tow a 1.6 tonne coromal in 3rd and get 18ltres per 100k on lpg so im pretty happy with that
-- Edited by snapper49 on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 10:57:49 PM
Happywanderer said
10:52 PM Jan 10, 2012
Tess, have you changed your user name from the pod??
snapper49 said
10:59 PM Jan 10, 2012
Have sought some info and the general opinion is that yes you should be using sport shift not auto and running in 5th gear Hope that helps
rockylizard said
08:18 AM Jan 11, 2012
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
I am sure there will be a flurry of good advice ensuring.
Gday...
See, I was right.
cheers
John
aussietraveller said
09:05 PM Jan 11, 2012
When towing it is always better for your tow vehicle to use the gear that has one to one ratio it puts less strain on your transmission I drive a 5 speed auto pajero with 5th gear being overdrive and 4th being one to one ratio I also get better fuel economy towing in 4th mine also has the option to shift gear leaver into sports mode and lock it in a selected gear.
justcruisin01 said
09:25 PM Jan 11, 2012
rockylizard wrote:
justcruisin01 wrote:
any auto that is used for towing should have a external cooler fitted. JC.
Gday...
even if you are experiencing no overheating problems?
cheers
John
Yes, under good conditions you may survive ok with the temp.
On a bad day , high temps & a good mountain climb things wont be so rosey , It only needs a over heat to cause problems & when its happening its too late to say I should have fitted one.
EG, commodors motors will handle a over heating situation far better than a falcon. I have seen this many times with stolen cars that are used for burnouts . The holden survives & the ford will have a blown head gasket.
The old ford inline six has a weak area at the back end of the block, there are two water jackets behind no6 cyl & they tend to have block sinkage in this area.
As the top of the block cannot be re-machined they generely start doing head gaskets more often. Ihave been down this road many times with customers over the years.
A cooler is much cheaper than motor & Trans replacments.
JC.
Evie n Rhys said
11:53 PM Jan 11, 2012
Yes Marj, I have sold the pod to a lovely lady who is thinking of coming on here so thought I would allow her to use that name. My new babies are Evie n Rhys. Very nice they are too. Set up for free camp now so very happy. Hope to introduce you to them some time soon.
Tess
Evie n Rhys said
11:57 PM Jan 11, 2012
Thanks yet again. It never ceases to amaze me how much there is to learn on here. It is fun though..... Ta Tess
NeilandRaine said
07:09 AM Jan 12, 2012
aussietraveller wrote:
When towing it is always better for your tow vehicle to use the gear that has one to one ratio it puts less strain on your transmission I drive a 5 speed auto pajero with 5th gear being overdrive and 4th being one to one ratio I also get better fuel economy towing in 4th mine also has the option to shift gear leaver into sports mode and lock it in a selected gear.
Me to
rockylizard said
10:21 AM Jan 12, 2012
aussietraveller wrote:
When towing it is always better for your tow vehicle to use the gear that has one to one ratio it puts less strain on your transmission I drive a 5 speed auto pajero with 5th gear being overdrive and 4th being one to one ratio I also get better fuel economy towing in 4th mine also has the option to shift gear leaver into sports mode and lock it in a selected gear.
Gday...
Yep - if there is a "one-to-One" ratio in the box it is wise to use that.
However, the 6-speed box in the LandRover models does not have a "one-to-one" ratio - ZF 6-speed.
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th are intermediate ratios (neither are one-to-one) with 5th and 6th as 'overdrive' ratios. Given the transmission in the Falcon is the same as the Discovery (and a whole range of other vehicles) there is no "one-to-one" ratio to choose - in sports mode or otherwise.
The computer in the ZF box will decide which is the best ratio to suit the motor's optimum requirements under load in 99% of conditions. It does with mine. However, I do use it "manually' going down steep descents and hold a 'suitable' gear.
Perhaps the best overall advice in these circumstances, is to contact the Technical Dept of the Manufacturer of your own vehicle and get their informed advice rather than 'blanket advice' from another's personal vehicle which is not your model.
Cheers
John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 12th of January 2012 10:22:37 AM
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 12th of January 2012 10:25:52 AM
rockylizard said
10:55 AM Jan 12, 2012
Gday...
The ZF 6-speed transmission is fitted to a wide range of vehicles - including the LandRover Discovery 3/4, and since 2005 Falcon BF - FG, and Ford Terrritory.
The ratios of the transmision are -
ZF 6-speed Gear box ratios
1 4.17:1
2 2.34:1
3 1.52:1
4 1.14.1
5 0.87:1
6 0.69:1
Cheers
John
aussietraveller said
05:58 PM Jan 12, 2012
Gday the 1.14 or fourth gear would be close enough for my reasoning if I had one of these boxes. cheers David
Delboy said
11:24 PM Feb 2, 2012
I think rocky lizards point is that with no 1:1 direct drive the gearbox is still spinning additional shafts and gears so selecting a ratio close to 1:1 does not really help.
Most vehicles engine management and gearbox systems are designed to provide the best fuel economy at any given point in time. They adapt to the engine load, road speed, fuel quality, temperatures, humidy in real time and are probably much better placed to make the adjustments themselves rather than trying to compensate for being locked into an inappropriate gear.
I would use the advice provided above to select 'D' for general road use and 'S' if negotiating hilly country to minimize the number of gear shifts and provide additional engine braking if your car does not do that automatically (mine shifts down when it recognizes an over run situation for example to add engine braking when on cruise)
deverall11 said
08:13 PM Dec 31, 2013
In some vehicles, the converter doesn't in 'D' as well as in manual mode. On the Landcruiser, I always tow in 4th and sometimes push it up to 5th keeping an eye on the transmission temperature. I also did fuel consumption runs, and the difference between 4th and 5th is negligible.
It is more important to keep an eye on the transmission temperature then worry about fuel consumption, if driving an auto.
Larry
Plendo said
12:36 AM Jan 1, 2014
The current generation box does not have a direct gear either just like the six speed. I specifically asked the dealer, who in turn asked the manufacturer, I fully expected them to say use sixth, but no the advice was to let the auto decide, but not to expect it to spend too much time in 8th. The one exception to this as John indicated was to select sport mode and engage lower gears for engine braking.
While the manufacturer (Land Rover) indicated to let the auto decide, the service manager indicated that it would be kinder to hold it in a lower gear for extended steep climbs.
As yet I can not tell what impact this has on fuel economy, the van does not arrive until February, but I know economy is excellent when not towing, 10 around town, and 8.1 on a recent trip. On the trip we sat at exactly the speed limit as per the GPS, so GPS says 100, speedo says 104. This on a tight vehicle that is not even close to being run in.
Gday...
I am sure there will be a flurry of good advice ensuring. However, while they catch up, would assist if we knew the vehicle and whether you are towing etc.
Without knowing the vehicle and how it is used, I would suggest the advice is a little ill-informed.
A modern auto transmission is a complex, but highly intelligent bit of kit. Given you say it is a 6-speed auto, I would assume it is modern. If so, then I would suggest that you leave it in D 90% of the time and let it use its intelligence to decide what the motor needs to work at its optimum.
If towing, then I would do the same unless going down a steep(ish) hill when I would use the apparent ability you have to 'select' a gear and downshift to a lower gear yourself. This will assist the motor in holding the load rather than 'running away'.
Regarding the need to fit a 'second' cooler would depend on what type of vehicle, how you use the vehicle and what you are experiencing.
Regarding fuel economy - driving in 3rd of 6 gears would definitely give a higher fuel consumption and without knowing the vehicle I would suggest it is unnecessary. It again depends on the vehicle/transmission regarding using the 'overdrive' gear when towing.
Having said all that, again it would be helpful to know more about the vehicle and how you are using it.
Cheers
John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 08:46:53 AM
Thanks
Tess
Gday...
Thanks. The Ford Fairmont's 6-speed transmission is the same transmission I have in my LandRover Discovery 3 and it is an excellent box.
I have now towed my 23ft 2600kg tandem van for about 30,000km using 'D' and it sits in 5th gear predominantly and rarely selects 6th gear. It decides to change back to 4th or 3rd when conditions require it. The Discovery motor gets its max torque at 1900rpm and the transmission keeps the motor at or above that rpm depending on conditions when under load. There are some hills I have manually selected 2nd gear to descend.
I am not sure whether the Territory has the same transmission as the Fairmont but I would not be surprised if it does.
There are some who suggest fitting a cooler to the transmission in 2WD vehicles such as Ford and Holden, but given the load you are towing I would doubt if the temp guage shows much variation. May be different climbing long hills on very hot days.
My rule of thumb would be to keep a watchful eye on the temp guage and if it shows rises in temp that don't quickly reduce down hill then I would consider fitting a cooler.
Cheers
John
It's all trial and error isn't it? It certainly helps to read this forum and hear of others experiences.
Cheers
Tess
any auto that is used for towing should have a external cooler fitted. If you have enough room to fit a large cooler then you can bypass the original cooler located in the bottom tank of the radiator, this will eliminate the extra heat from the tranny being piped through the engine cooling system, therefore keeping engine temp down as well.
The original cooler is only a tube running through the bottom tank of the radiator, not what you would call efficient.
JC.
Cheers
Tess
Gday...
even if you are experiencing no overheating problems?
cheers
John
Yes all autos should have an extra cooler fitted even if you are not experiencing heating problems
I also drive a territory but mine is 4 speed all towing done in 3rd and in sequential sport shift mode not auto mode
6 speed shouldnt be much different not sure what gear you should run in though
Im pretty sure you will find in your manual a detailed summary of how to tow with your terri and Im pretty sure you should be using sportshift mode not auto
I tow a 1.6 tonne coromal in 3rd and get 18ltres per 100k on lpg so im pretty happy with that
-- Edited by snapper49 on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 10:57:49 PM
Hope that helps
Gday...
See, I was right.
cheers
John
Yes, under good conditions you may survive ok with the temp.
On a bad day , high temps & a good mountain climb things wont be so rosey , It only needs a over heat to cause problems & when its happening its too late to say I should have fitted one.
EG, commodors motors will handle a over heating situation far better than a falcon. I have seen this many times with stolen cars that are used for burnouts . The holden survives & the ford will have a blown head gasket.
The old ford inline six has a weak area at the back end of the block, there are two water jackets behind no6 cyl & they tend to have block sinkage in this area.
As the top of the block cannot be re-machined they generely start doing head gaskets more often. Ihave been down this road many times with customers over the years.
A cooler is much cheaper than motor & Trans replacments.
JC.
Ta
Tess
Me to
Gday...
Yep - if there is a "one-to-One" ratio in the box it is wise to use that.
However, the 6-speed box in the LandRover models does not have a "one-to-one" ratio - ZF 6-speed.
1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th are intermediate ratios (neither are one-to-one) with 5th and 6th as 'overdrive' ratios. Given the transmission in the Falcon is the same as the Discovery (and a whole range of other vehicles) there is no "one-to-one" ratio to choose - in sports mode or otherwise.
The computer in the ZF box will decide which is the best ratio to suit the motor's optimum requirements under load in 99% of conditions. It does with mine. However, I do use it "manually' going down steep descents and hold a 'suitable' gear.
Perhaps the best overall advice in these circumstances, is to contact the Technical Dept of the Manufacturer of your own vehicle and get their informed advice rather than 'blanket advice' from another's personal vehicle which is not your model.
Cheers
John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 12th of January 2012 10:22:37 AM
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 12th of January 2012 10:25:52 AM
Gday...
The ZF 6-speed transmission is fitted to a wide range of vehicles - including the LandRover Discovery 3/4, and since 2005 Falcon BF - FG, and Ford Terrritory.
The ratios of the transmision are -
ZF 6-speed Gear box ratios
1 4.17:1
2 2.34:1
3 1.52:1
4 1.14.1
5 0.87:1
6 0.69:1
Cheers
John
the 1.14 or fourth gear would be close enough for my reasoning if I had one of these boxes.
cheers
David
It is more important to keep an eye on the transmission temperature then worry about fuel consumption, if driving an auto.
Larry
The current generation box does not have a direct gear either just like the six speed. I specifically asked the dealer, who in turn asked the manufacturer, I fully expected them to say use sixth, but no the advice was to let the auto decide, but not to expect it to spend too much time in 8th. The one exception to this as John indicated was to select sport mode and engage lower gears for engine braking.
While the manufacturer (Land Rover) indicated to let the auto decide, the service manager indicated that it would be kinder to hold it in a lower gear for extended steep climbs.
As yet I can not tell what impact this has on fuel economy, the van does not arrive until February, but I know economy is excellent when not towing, 10 around town, and 8.1 on a recent trip. On the trip we sat at exactly the speed limit as per the GPS, so GPS says 100, speedo says 104. This on a tight vehicle that is not even close to being run in.