Here's the latest installment of getting equipped to get on the road full time and be self sufficient. Probably should start a blog but that is a very formal step especially since I'm still a few months off hitting that endless stretch of bitumen or gravel.
I've been trying to get the electrics sorted in my van. I scored 3 x 190w solar panels off ebay at a bargain basement price with the intention of putting 2 on the caravan and 1 on the canopy of the ute.
The autosparky is very skilled and a top bloke but being the only creature of his species in a small country town is totally stretched with having to sort out all sorts of emergencies on top of his normal bookings. So the poor old girl has been in sparky hospital for a month now.
He thought he had a regulator in stock but could not find it so as I was in Perth yesterday it fell to me to source one for him. That is when a typhoon swirled up and carried me off to the Twilight Zone. Well it was a cross between the twlight zone and Monty Python.
First there were the phonecalls back and forth to the rude and arrogant $%##$@s who supplied solar regulators who insisted the panels had to be 24 volt and to my sparky who was convinced they were 12v. I finally sorted that by ringing the nice ebay supplier and it turned out they were 24v.
Then there was an amazing surreal scene in the shop where I was confronted with 3 sales persons who either ignored or s******ed at my questions and would not explain anything to me unless I repeated the question several times. It was unbelievable and someone sent me a great Monty Python link depicting a similar scenario.
To summarise the staff tried to sell me a horrendously expensive 45amp regulator (24/12v) to service 2 panels and then when I saw a much cheaper 15 amp regulator were forced to admit that this would be more efficient and effective. To cut the story short I walked out of the shop with 3 regulators, one for each panel and that saved me close to $400.
The beauty of all this is that even with having to buy 3 regulators I have a system that has roughly 6 times the wattage of something from a normal retailer for a similar cost.
Sorry about such a long post. But the moral of the story is that the solar panels did not have the voltage specified anywhere - there was stuff written on the back but no voltage. Generally autosparkies are not over familiar with solar. My very comptetent and experienced sparky had to assume they were 12v.
If it had not been for the fortunate missing regulator he would have hooked it up as a full 12v system and it would not have taken too long - a couple of weeks maybe- before the system melted and blew up.
So how fortunate is that. I am one lucky camper.
Mergatroy said
12:15 AM Dec 22, 2011
if the panels are 14v and your car is 12v, you may have to use the panels with a 'house battery' seperate from your car battery, un less you can get a 'down converter' to convert 24v to a 12v system, Im not sure regulators do this. It may be worth posting a question in the techie forum, or finding someone in your area with solar experience.
Mergatroy said
12:37 AM Dec 22, 2011
To test what voltage your panels are get the Autoelectrician to test the open circuit voltage (put his volt meter across the teminals/wires). The panels need to be pounting directly at the sun in both slope of the panels and direction.
If the voltage is about 22v they are 12v panels (goes to 18v under load then 12-14v after the regulator). If the voltage is about 33V they are 24V ( endsup about 26-27v after the regulator)
If you want to know the rough (very rough) wtage get him to do a amps test. He needs an ammeter that can read up to 10 - 15 A measure straight accross the terminals with the ammeter At 190W 12V panels should be about 8.5 -10.5 amps (very sun dependant) (18V * 10.5A = 190W) If 24V should be haff this ie 4 - 6 amps ( 32V * 5.9A = 190W) These are rough figures as the 190W is measured under labatory conditions) but should be enought to check the type of panel and a general idea that they are working
my 120W are 20V and about 5A (quick test they worked and at the price Im happy)
Hope this didnt give you info overload, or ammo for the pundits to shoot me down with.
Have fun, Hurt none Merg
Elle on Wheels said
01:15 AM Dec 22, 2011
Thanks Merg for your very valuable information and advice and I will pass it on and hopefully all will be sorted tomorrow. With the ute set up there will be a 'house' battery separate to the car battery.
It's not my intent for this to be a techie topic otherwise I would have put it somewhere else.
My point was after having done a fair bit of research and looking for the best value options as well as having a good autoelectrician, I still very nearly came undone. And those with the specialist solar knowledge were in the end extremely unhelpful.
I reckon I was extremely lucky how things worked out.
In the end I did check with the seller and he was adamant that they were 24 volt. I am still a novice and will remain so.
cheers
Rip and Rosie said
09:11 AM Dec 22, 2011
I would have been so angry Elle, so I congratulate you on your control.
Is is a male salesman thing, or just with stuff they think they should be selling to a man? So frustrating when you just want good clear info communicated in a way you can understand.
I took the new tug to the service people, to check where I should be checking under the hood etc (its a diesal), and the bloke just said "Leave it alone, you'll stuff something."
I went off to buy a fridge. Got 3 or so blokes who waved their hands in front of the fridges, and said "we'll beat any other offer you get" In the 4th place got a woman, who discussed how the star rating worked, the advantages of the systems offered, the practical features of the models on the showroom, and how to clean them. She wasn't pushy, she beat the others' prices and she got the business.
Rosie
Elle on Wheels said
09:46 AM Dec 22, 2011
It was certainly a bizzare experience. I would ask a very reasonable question like how come 15 wmps was more than adequate for 1 panel but 30 amps were pushing it for 2 panels and all them of them just stared at me and said nothing. There were other customers watching all this unfold. I was determined to get an answer so kept repeating the questions until I got some sort of response - mainly useless.
The spooky bit was the near disaster and maybe it's a lesson - always make sure you go to the correct specialist but you don't often have that luxury in a small town.
The other thing is needing to know how something works so you can be confident you are getting the best products. In this case it was a real power trip - superior up themselves w#@$@#s having a laugh at my expense and making sure I was kept in the dark.
beiffe said
10:00 AM Dec 22, 2011
If ever you think a salesman is trying to pull the wool over you the best option is to just say (I don't think you are being honest so I best look elsewhere GOODBYE).
If i think this is happening that's what I do.
Even if I know what I want I often play the dumb act (I know that's not hard) to see what they say. If it is BS then I walk away. Sometimes throw the wrong answer at them and see if they recognise your error and try to correct you or they just go along to get the sale.
Its all a great experience. Just glad you are all set up now and it is working. Nothing like looking at the SOC each night and near 100% (voltage right up is usually near enough if you don't have a SOC (State Of Charge) option.
One lessen we should all realise is that MOST auto-elects know NOTHING about Solar.
Regards Brian
Mergatroy said
10:22 AM Dec 22, 2011
I am amazed at the number of 'sales' people who dont know (and dont bother to learn about) thier product. In supermarkts, k-mart and the like, I dont expect it, but specific interest shops I do. To BS someone just to get a sale is so wrong and I would thing discorage me, I would rather be told 'Im not sure Iwill find out' than be fed BS. And to the way they treted you was dispicable. If I was the shop owner (hopefuilly one of the sales people wasnt) I would be 'talking' to the staff about customer service. I agree Ellie, unfortunatly there ate not many places with solar experience so our choices are limited and those places that do, are either down to earth good guys or new to it and think they are the bees knees and everyone else are ignorant and know nothing, and so BS will get a sale.
Opps I will get off the saop box now, but it is so frustrating
Merg
Rip and Rosie said
01:52 PM Dec 22, 2011
Yes, Merg, but when you are a woman there is some barrier that stops clear communication.
Every woman on this forum will be able to recount discussions with mechanics, electricians, plumbers, builders and a host of others which go differently for men v. women. Buying spare parts for car, caravan or trailer is frought with difficulties as if men and women speak different languages.
I prefer to use business where the salespeople are "multi-lingual"
Rosie
Travel Bug said
06:14 PM Dec 22, 2011
Glad that it was all sorted in the end Elle....even though it was a frustrating experience.
Rosie...couldn't agree with you more. Certainly not all...but many tradesmen seem to think that a woman could not possibly understand such complex issues. Grrr!!
Elle on Wheels said
09:38 PM Dec 22, 2011
Hi all it wasn't my intent to turn this into a men vs women sorta thing but that probably was an element. The main issue was the shocking misinformation and the contempt. And the good outcome including the very fortunate avoiding of disaster. Imagine heading out on my first trip and having everything blow up.
Rip and Rosie said
08:52 AM Dec 23, 2011
Sorry Elle, I didn't mean it to be men v women either, except to say that clear communication is a problem, and failure to create an understanding causes problems (like yours) which can have dire consequences.
Rosie
Elle on Wheels said
11:17 AM Dec 23, 2011
Today is friday and I'm hoping the sparky has finished the van otherwise I have to wait at least another week while he has a holiday. Mr Stud is camping at my place for a while are we are chaffing at the bit to go on some practice free camping. All we have managed so far is to take the dogs for runs on various beaches. It's still early here so have to wait another hour before I can ring up.
Rip and Rosie said
11:36 AM Dec 23, 2011
Wishing you luck Rosie
yeoeleven said
12:12 PM Dec 23, 2011
As this thread suggests it has been a frustrating time for Ellen, one thing after another but the end is in sight.
We went for a drive the other day to Cosy Corner East where we will go for a couple of days. I spent 9 days there before coming to Denmark, it is just the spot for Ellen to get some hands on experience of free camping in a dog friendly environment and only 40kms from the farm.We have plans for another trip to Shannon National Park but that will be without the dogs so hopefully the sparky will have the van finished today.
As well as the delay in the electrical work there is the problem of housing the van whilst these delays have occurred, the yard where the van is parked is needed by another mechanic and he is pressuring to have it removed. Another reason for the work to be completed.
John
yeoeleven said
08:29 PM Dec 23, 2011
Ellen your new avatar looks very much like Mrs Slocome of "Are You Being Served " fame. Not so sure that you look good in that purple wig
John
Elle on Wheels said
09:46 PM Dec 23, 2011
John you should know that's not a wig. I had a big feed of beetroot last night and got an awful fright when I looked in the mirror this morning.
No word from the autoelectrician despite my messages so it looks as if there's another 7 days or more before I get the van back. Oh well.
Vic said
10:01 PM Dec 23, 2011
Elle on Wheels wrote:
Mr Stud is camping at my place for a while are we are chaffing at the bit to go on some practice free camping.
Mr Stud ? The mind boggles as to how John earned that name !
Elle on Wheels said
10:14 PM Dec 23, 2011
You've got Billieeeee to thank for that one
Vic said
02:24 AM Dec 24, 2011
Hmmmm.......yes, I think Billiiiiii tells a few porkies.....or does he?
By the way, where is he, haven't seen him on here for awhile?
Hello All
Here's the latest installment of getting equipped to get on the road full time and be self sufficient. Probably should start a blog but that is a very formal step especially since I'm still a few months off hitting that endless stretch of bitumen or gravel.
I've been trying to get the electrics sorted in my van. I scored 3 x 190w solar panels off ebay at a bargain basement price with the intention of putting 2 on the caravan and 1 on the canopy of the ute.
The autosparky is very skilled and a top bloke but being the only creature of his species in a small country town is totally stretched with having to sort out all sorts of emergencies on top of his normal bookings. So the poor old girl has been in sparky hospital for a month now.
He thought he had a regulator in stock but could not find it so as I was in Perth yesterday it fell to me to source one for him. That is when a typhoon swirled up and carried me off to the Twilight Zone. Well it was a cross between the twlight zone and Monty Python.
First there were the phonecalls back and forth to the rude and arrogant $%##$@s who supplied solar regulators who insisted the panels had to be 24 volt and to my sparky who was convinced they were 12v. I finally sorted that by ringing the nice ebay supplier and it turned out they were 24v.
Then there was an amazing surreal scene in the shop where I was confronted with 3 sales persons who either ignored or s******ed at my questions and would not explain anything to me unless I repeated the question several times. It was unbelievable and someone sent me a great Monty Python link depicting a similar scenario.
To summarise the staff tried to sell me a horrendously expensive 45amp regulator (24/12v) to service 2 panels and then when I saw a much cheaper 15 amp regulator were forced to admit that this would be more efficient and effective. To cut the story short I walked out of the shop with 3 regulators, one for each panel and that saved me close to $400.
The beauty of all this is that even with having to buy 3 regulators I have a system that has roughly 6 times the wattage of something from a normal retailer for a similar cost.
Sorry about such a long post. But the moral of the story is that the solar panels did not have the voltage specified anywhere - there was stuff written on the back but no voltage. Generally autosparkies are not over familiar with solar. My very comptetent and experienced sparky had to assume they were 12v.
If it had not been for the fortunate missing regulator he would have hooked it up as a full 12v system and it would not have taken too long - a couple of weeks maybe- before the system melted and blew up.
So how fortunate is that. I am one lucky camper.
The panels need to be pounting directly at the sun in both slope of the panels and direction.
If the voltage is about 22v they are 12v panels (goes to 18v under load then 12-14v after the regulator).
If the voltage is about 33V they are 24V ( endsup about 26-27v after the regulator)
If you want to know the rough (very rough) wtage get him to do a amps test.
He needs an ammeter that can read up to 10 - 15 A
measure straight accross the terminals with the ammeter
At 190W 12V panels should be about 8.5 -10.5 amps (very sun dependant) (18V * 10.5A = 190W)
If 24V should be haff this ie 4 - 6 amps ( 32V * 5.9A = 190W)
These are rough figures as the 190W is measured under labatory conditions) but should be enought to check the type of panel and a general idea that they are working
my 120W are 20V and about 5A (quick test they worked and at the price Im happy)
Hope this didnt give you info overload, or ammo for the pundits to shoot me down with.
Have fun, Hurt none
Merg
It's not my intent for this to be a techie topic otherwise I would have put it somewhere else.
My point was after having done a fair bit of research and looking for the best value options as well as having a good autoelectrician, I still very nearly came undone. And those with the specialist solar knowledge were in the end extremely unhelpful.
I reckon I was extremely lucky how things worked out.
In the end I did check with the seller and he was adamant that they were 24 volt. I am still a novice and will remain so.
cheers
Is is a male salesman thing, or just with stuff they think they should be selling to a man? So frustrating when you just want good clear info communicated in a way you can understand.
I took the new tug to the service people, to check where I should be checking under the hood etc (its a diesal), and the bloke just said "Leave it alone, you'll stuff something."
I went off to buy a fridge. Got 3 or so blokes who waved their hands in front of the fridges, and said "we'll beat any other offer you get" In the 4th place got a woman, who discussed how the star rating worked, the advantages of the systems offered, the practical features of the models on the showroom, and how to clean them. She wasn't pushy, she beat the others' prices and she got the business.
Rosie
The spooky bit was the near disaster and maybe it's a lesson - always make sure you go to the correct specialist but you don't often have that luxury in a small town.
The other thing is needing to know how something works so you can be confident you are getting the best products. In this case it was a real power trip - superior up themselves w#@$@#s having a laugh at my expense and making sure I was kept in the dark.
If i think this is happening that's what I do.
Even if I know what I want I often play the dumb act (I know that's not hard) to see what they say. If it is BS then I walk away. Sometimes throw the wrong answer at them and see if they recognise your error and try to correct you or they just go along to get the sale.
Its all a great experience. Just glad you are all set up now and it is working. Nothing like looking at the SOC each night and near 100% (voltage right up is usually near enough if you don't have a SOC (State Of Charge) option.
One lessen we should all realise is that MOST auto-elects know NOTHING about Solar.
Regards
Brian
I agree Ellie, unfortunatly there ate not many places with solar experience so our choices are limited and those places that do, are either down to earth good guys or new to it and think they are the bees knees and everyone else are ignorant and know nothing, and so BS will get a sale.
Opps I will get off the saop box now, but it is so frustrating
Merg
Every woman on this forum will be able to recount discussions with mechanics, electricians, plumbers, builders and a host of others which go differently for men v. women. Buying spare parts for car, caravan or trailer is frought with difficulties as if men and women speak different languages.
I prefer to use business where the salespeople are "multi-lingual"
Rosie
Glad that it was all sorted in the end Elle....even though it was a frustrating experience.
Rosie...couldn't agree with you more. Certainly not all...but many tradesmen seem to think that a woman could not possibly understand such complex issues. Grrr!!
Rosie
Rosie
As this thread suggests it has been a frustrating time for Ellen, one thing after another but the end is in sight.
We went for a drive the other day to Cosy Corner East where we will go for a couple of days. I spent 9 days there before coming to Denmark, it is just the spot for Ellen to get some hands on experience of free camping in a dog friendly environment and only 40kms from the farm.We have plans for another trip to Shannon National Park but that will be without the dogs so hopefully the sparky will have the van finished today.
As well as the delay in the electrical work there is the problem of housing the van whilst these delays have occurred, the yard where the van is parked is needed by another mechanic and he is pressuring to have it removed. Another reason for the work to be completed.
John
Ellen your new avatar looks very much like Mrs Slocome of "Are You Being Served " fame. Not so sure that you look good in that purple wig
John
No word from the autoelectrician despite my messages so it looks as if there's another 7 days or more before I get the van back. Oh well.
Mr Stud ?
The mind boggles as to how John earned that name ! 
Hmmmm.......yes, I think Billiiiiii tells a few porkies.....or does he?
By the way, where is he, haven't seen him on here for awhile?