In the post [ inverter's] there is much discussion between inverter & a 12volt system for a laptop.
As stated the 12v system is a dc dc converter to be able to supply the additional 7volts to make the required 19 volt @ 3.45 amps. The additional 7volts has to be created & therefore must require some amps to do so, cannot appear from thin air.
If a car cig lighter socket is being used then the car accessories has to be on, adding more power usage, this can be elimated if there is a hot wire plug fitted.
Question, has anyone measured the power requirement to run the 12 volt system?, as it has to be more than the 3.45 amps used by the laptop.
I have just ckecked our system, A 400watt inverter running a laptop with a 240 volt modem uses 4amps.
This looks to me that the two systems are six to one & half a dozen to the other.
A proper measure of the 12 volt unit is required.
Happywanderer said
04:46 PM Oct 16, 2011
Very interesting justcruisin. I have wondered the same so going for both. That way I figure I can always charge the laptop while driving like I do with the mobile phone. Not sure about doing that not driving, eg just with the key turned to accessories. How much of my van/driving battery would it use? Not worth the risk of being without my starting battery free camping out somewhere. So thats when the inverter comes in handy. Thats my way of thinking anyway, might have it wrong.
bill12 said
05:10 PM Oct 16, 2011
I have the same problem . I bought a 12v charger on ebay to power my laptop, and it went up in smoke, literally. It got very hot and melted, luckily blowing a fuse. I have an inverter , which , while seeming to use more power, works a charm. I usually charge the laptop while driving, which means that its working off the 75 amp alternator in the vehicle. If I buy another 12v , I want a warrentee. The smell or burnt plastic isn,t nice. Bill
blaze said
05:35 PM Oct 16, 2011
we got a couple of 12/19 volts chargers for the laptops and run the laptops for extended periods of time when free camping and have had no problems, they were ebay jobbies cheers blaze
Happywanderer said
05:36 PM Oct 16, 2011
My understanding is you can't use just a normal 12 v charger on the laptop. It has to be one of those special converter ones with the right voltage as described in the Inverter thread on here Bill.
lilly31 said
05:47 PM Oct 16, 2011
Happywanderer wrote:
My understanding is you can't use just a normal 12 v charger on the laptop. It has to be one of those special converter ones with the right voltage as described in the Inverter thread on here Bill.
That is my understanding to Marj ..But i rather asked here because there are some many on here who have tested all of the things , then in the shop because some time you dont get what you realy need , unless you have all the information about the item .. .sometime's they will sell you anything just to get the sale
Happywanderer said
06:14 PM Oct 16, 2011
Thats why I'm getting the Jaycar one mentioned in the inverter thread, I do know now that is the correct one. Have to be so careful.
jimricho said
06:41 PM Oct 16, 2011
If you already have a suitable inverter (pure sine wave or PSW) and if what you're doing works fine for you, well.....if it ain't broke why fix it?
If deciding between an inverter and a 12v laptop power supply the latter is a neat and less expensive solution with the advantages as detailed in the other thread. You can connect one of these to any 12v outlet that you can connect an inverter to, it doesn't have to be connected to the car's cig lighter. That was just a suggestion as a way of saving on your house battery by charging the laptop while on the move, and yes, you can plug a small inverter into the car's cig lighter too.
As for buying one of these off Ebay or from a Hong Kong website.... Caveat Emptor! Bill you're lucky it was only your power supply and not your laptop as well!
The Jaycar unit comes with all the connectors and information you need to ensure that it is set up correctly for the laptop. Jaycar would have someone in store who would help if you need it.
There are probably laptops out there that are used with inverters that are not pure sine wave (known as modified sine wave, or MSW) without any problems but a different MSW inverter/laptop combination may be a different story, try it if you like, it's your money not mine, but I wouldn't risk it. Note that a pure sine wave (PSW) inverter is fine to use with any laptop.
jimricho said
06:45 PM Oct 16, 2011
lilly31 wrote:
Happywanderer wrote:
My understanding is you can't use just a normal 12 v charger on the laptop. It has to be one of those special converter ones with the right voltage as described in the Inverter thread on here Bill.
That is my understanding to Marj ..But i rather asked here because there are some many on here who have tested all of the things , then in the shop because some time you dont get what you realy need , unless you have all the information about the item .. .sometime's they will sell you anything just to get the sale
Yes Marj, that's spot on. And yes Lilly31, I own and use the Jaycar 90w unit as described. I think there would be others too.
Happywanderer said
06:50 PM Oct 16, 2011
Thats why I am getting the Jaycar one Jimricho. Sick of waiting to get all my in house power connected, have to find an alternative that later can be used in conjunction with, when I am travelling for longer periods.
Sheba said
07:02 PM Oct 16, 2011
That's another reason I'm glad I have Solar Marj. If I remember rightly , it was Jimricho who advisd me a while back, that with a 12V Adaptor for the Lap-top, [Toshiba using 19 V.] I wouldn't need to buy an Inverter.
I can just plug straight in to the 12V supply. I have a Kerio, but haven'tbeen on the road to use it yet.
Cheers,
Sheba.
Happywanderer said
07:07 PM Oct 16, 2011
Solar is on my list too Sheba, but way down the list at the moment. Too many other things to buy first.
justcruisin01 said
08:29 PM Oct 16, 2011
But still no one has been able to answer the question. so I take it that no one has done a load test.
Happywanderer said
08:44 PM Oct 16, 2011
Sorry justcruisin. May have solved a few other queries but that one is beyond my capabilities.
jimricho said
09:00 PM Oct 16, 2011
justcruisin01 wrote:
But still no one has been able to answer the question. so I take it that no one has done a load test.
Any test would have to be with your computer to ensure a we're comparing "apples with apples". My laptop is at the computer doctor at present having a software problem sorted so I can't set up a test. I don't have an suitable inverter to set up a comparison anyway.
I'm inclined to think there's not a lot in it however as laptops are designed to be efficient in their use of power.
In the previous thread I commented that I thought that a 12v TV would be a better option than a 240v (only) unit with an inverter as there is probably less imperative to design power efficency into the 240v product like there is with laptops (and maybe 12v TVs. Unlike a laptop a 12v TV does not require anything more than a "common or garden variety"12v power cord to connect it to the 12v power source. (ie just a pair of wires with a plug at each end)
PS: What is the "standing" current being drawn by your inverter? (ie the current drawn with the inverter switched on but with no load connected.)
-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 16th of October 2011 09:04:15 PM
justcruisin01 said
09:13 PM Oct 16, 2011
jimricho wrote:
justcruisin01 wrote:
But still no one has been able to answer the question. so I take it that no one has done a load test.
PS: What is the "standing" current being drawn by your inverter? (ie the current drawn with the inverter switched on but with no load connected.)
-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 16th of October 2011 09:04:15 PM
Jim, the standing current is one amp.
Evie n Rhys said
09:55 PM Oct 16, 2011
I have been reading this thread and have just poured my second red so should understand more now...... I have a MacBook air and I went into the apple dist the other day to get a car charger and was told quite clearly that there isn't one !!! I had been sent there by other folk to ask for it and that was the response I got. Also I looked online and they have an aircraft power source but it say not suitable for car charging. I am a little confused here. Fortunately I gently became the proud owner of a Honda 1 kva generator through the generosity of a coastal dweller with more money than sense who wanted to get rid of it at the right price so should I just use that option?? Thanks by the way for bringing up these topics I am finding it all very interesting. Confusing but interesting. The Pod
jimricho said
07:12 AM Oct 17, 2011
If your Macbook is one of possibly a few that can't be used with the "Jaycar" (or similar) type device we've been talking about then a Pure sine wave inverter is fine to use. Just plug your 240v lead into the inverter. Supercheap have 300w PSW inverters for an economical price, I think around $130, not sure. I seem to recall that Happywander owns one of these.
Getting the Honda out especially to just charge the laptop seems a bit overkill and an inconvenience but you may at times be on genny power anyway so charging the Macbook would not be a problem.
PS: I hope that red is good one, life's too short to spend any of it drinking what the French call "vin ordinaire"
-- Edited by jimricho on Monday 17th of October 2011 07:25:24 AM
Evie n Rhys said
08:31 AM Oct 17, 2011
Thanks for that, I'll go into jay car and ask. I thought the generator had an inverter and pure sine wave?? I'll take the info into jay car and let them sort it. By the way the red was very nice, Red Edge from Heathcote. Great reds in that area. I'm sure I'll get the communications sorted one way or the other. Thanks again Tess
jimricho said
09:43 AM Oct 17, 2011
The pod wrote:
Thanks for that, I'll go into jay car and ask. I thought the generator had an inverter and pure sine wave?? I'll take the info into jay car and let them sort it. By the way the red was very nice, Red Edge from Heathcote. Great reds in that area. I'm sure I'll get the communications sorted one way or the other. Thanks again Tess
Technically the generator is fine for charging a laptop and yes these newer type "inverter" generators do incorporate a pure sine wave inverter to convert the "raw" output from an internal alternator to a very clean and stable form of 240v AC. (cleaner than the mains in fact!)
Note that these comments may not apply to some of the "el cheapo" gennies out there
Happywanderer said
10:14 AM Oct 17, 2011
Yes, you are right Jimricho. I do have the 300 w pure sine wave from Supercheap Auto. And have ordered the 90w 12 volt adaptor thingee from Jaycar. Should arrive today or tomorrow.
Jacko said
06:38 PM Oct 18, 2011
Darling a 12V laptop power supply uses approximately <5/8 the power of an inverter and 240V power supply. Darling Jacko tested this today with Jacko's laptop fully charged. Darling that is a worthwhile power saving. Darling Jacko also uses a highly efficient inverter and a cheap inverter would probably use 20% more power.
jimricho said
07:21 PM Oct 18, 2011
Jacko wrote:
Darling a 12V laptop power supply uses approximately <5/8 the power of an inverter and 240V power supply. Darling Jacko tested this today with Jacko's laptop fully charged. Darling that is a worthwhile power saving. Darling Jacko also uses a highly efficient inverter and a cheap inverter would probably use 20% more power.
Thanks for that. That's very useful information. Backs up my view that the 12v power supply is a much better option to the inverter.
-- Edited by milo on Tuesday 18th of October 2011 10:38:12 PM
You still have to recharge the box thingie in the video clip so I fail to see the point in our situation. I can see it being useful perhaps in the case of a business traveller who gets caught out with a flat laptop (or mobile etc) battery and needs to check emails/messages or get out a time critical message.
Perhaps it could also be useful as substitute battery for a laptop whose battery has "seen better days". (depending on the cost of replacing the original battery)
jimricho said
07:04 PM Oct 19, 2011
Ok, let's summarise this whole thread..... based on Jacko's tests, If one uses an inverter to power a laptop from 12v it will use 60% more power than if a 12v laptop power supply is used. So the power supply wins on...
1. Power consumption.
2. Convenience.
3. Cost, (a half to a third the cost of a small PSW inverter.)
Elle on Wheels said
11:50 PM Oct 19, 2011
Thanks Jimricho I was getting awfully confused. And thanks everyone else for your expert comments
03_troopy said
06:52 PM Oct 20, 2011
jimricho wrote:
Ok, let's summarise this whole thread..... based on Jacko's tests, If one uses an inverter to power a laptop from 12v it will use 60% more power than if a 12v laptop power supply is used. So the power supply wins on...
1. Power consumption.
2. Convenience.
3. Cost, (a half to a third the cost of a small PSW inverter.)
Yes maybe... but.. an inverter is probably more versatile for running different equipment, or different chargers etc.
Mine runs 4 different camera battery chargers, 2 diffent laptops, a TV a soldering iron, an angle grinder.. hmmm... and anything else that has a standard 240V plug and doesn't dissipate more than about 600W.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Thursday 20th of October 2011 06:57:13 PM
Sheba said
06:59 PM Oct 20, 2011
03_troopy wrote:
Yes maybe... but.. an inverter is probably more versatile for running different equipment, or different chargers etc.
Mine runs 4 different camera battery chargers, 2 diffent laptops, a TV a soldering iron, an angle grinder.. hmmm... and anything else that has a standard 240V plug and doesn't dissipate more than about 600W.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Thursday 20th of October 2011 06:57:13 PM
The original Post here was relevant to Laptops only troopy, not everything else you want to run as well.
Cheers,
Sheba.
-- Edited by Sheba on Thursday 20th of October 2011 07:01:10 PM
03_troopy said
07:12 PM Oct 20, 2011
yes Sheba, but the way I see economy is not having a bazillion different things to do the one job... But for the point in question.. the DC-DC converter V the inverter, it depends on the design of both anyway
In the post [ inverter's] there is much discussion between inverter & a 12volt system for a laptop.
As stated the 12v system is a dc dc converter to be able to supply the additional 7volts to make the required 19 volt @ 3.45 amps. The additional 7volts has to be created & therefore must require some amps to do so, cannot appear from thin air.
If a car cig lighter socket is being used then the car accessories has to be on, adding more power usage, this can be elimated if there is a hot wire plug fitted.
Question, has anyone measured the power requirement to run the 12 volt system?, as it has to be more than the 3.45 amps used by the laptop.
I have just ckecked our system, A 400watt inverter running a laptop with a 240 volt modem uses 4amps.
This looks to me that the two systems are six to one & half a dozen to the other.
A proper measure of the 12 volt unit is required.
Not sure about doing that not driving, eg just with the key turned to accessories. How much of my van/driving battery would it use? Not worth the risk of being without my starting battery free camping out somewhere.
So thats when the inverter comes in handy.
Thats my way of thinking anyway, might have it wrong.
cheers
blaze
That is my understanding to Marj ..But i rather asked here because there are some many on here who have tested all of the things , then in the shop because some time you dont get what you realy need , unless you have all the information about the item .. .sometime's they will sell you anything just to get the sale
If deciding between an inverter and a 12v laptop power supply the latter is a neat and less expensive solution with the advantages as detailed in the other thread. You can connect one of these to any 12v outlet that you can connect an inverter to, it doesn't have to be connected to the car's cig lighter. That was just a suggestion as a way of saving on your house battery by charging the laptop while on the move, and yes, you can plug a small inverter into the car's cig lighter too.
As for buying one of these off Ebay or from a Hong Kong website.... Caveat Emptor! Bill you're lucky it was only your power supply and not your laptop as well!
The Jaycar unit comes with all the connectors and information you need to ensure that it is set up correctly for the laptop. Jaycar would have someone in store who would help if you need it.
There are probably laptops out there that are used with inverters that are not pure sine wave (known as modified sine wave, or MSW) without any problems but a different MSW inverter/laptop combination may be a different story, try it if you like, it's your money not mine, but I wouldn't risk it. Note that a pure sine wave (PSW) inverter is fine to use with any laptop.
Yes Marj, that's spot on. And yes Lilly31, I own and use the Jaycar 90w unit as described. I think there would be others too.
That's another reason I'm glad I have Solar Marj. If I remember rightly , it was Jimricho who advisd me a while back, that with a 12V Adaptor for the Lap-top, [Toshiba using 19 V.] I wouldn't need to buy an Inverter.
I can just plug straight in to the 12V supply. I have a Kerio, but haven'tbeen on the road to use it yet.
Cheers,
Sheba.
But still no one has been able to answer the question. so I take it that no one has done a load test.
Any test would have to be with your computer to ensure a we're comparing "apples with apples". My laptop is at the computer doctor at present having a software problem sorted so I can't set up a test. I don't have an suitable inverter to set up a comparison anyway.
I'm inclined to think there's not a lot in it however as laptops are designed to be efficient in their use of power.
In the previous thread I commented that I thought that a 12v TV would be a better option than a 240v (only) unit with an inverter as there is probably less imperative to design power efficency into the 240v product like there is with laptops (and maybe 12v TVs. Unlike a laptop a 12v TV does not require anything more than a "common or garden variety"12v power cord to connect it to the 12v power source. (ie just a pair of wires with a plug at each end)
PS: What is the "standing" current being drawn by your inverter? (ie the current drawn with the inverter switched on but with no load connected.)
-- Edited by jimricho on Sunday 16th of October 2011 09:04:15 PM
Jim, the standing current is one amp.
I have a MacBook air and I went into the apple dist the other day to get a car charger and was told quite clearly that there isn't one !!!
I had been sent there by other folk to ask for it and that was the response I got. Also I looked online and they have an aircraft power source but it say not suitable for car charging. I am a little confused here. Fortunately I gently became the proud owner of a Honda 1 kva generator through the generosity of a coastal dweller with more money than sense who wanted to get rid of it at the right price so should I just use that option??
Thanks by the way for bringing up these topics I am finding it all very interesting. Confusing but interesting.
The Pod
If your Macbook is one of possibly a few that can't be used with the "Jaycar" (or similar) type device we've been talking about then a Pure sine wave inverter is fine to use. Just plug your 240v lead into the inverter. Supercheap have 300w PSW inverters for an economical price, I think around $130, not sure. I seem to recall that Happywander owns one of these.
Getting the Honda out especially to just charge the laptop seems a bit overkill and an inconvenience but you may at times be on genny power anyway so charging the Macbook would not be a problem.
PS: I hope that red is good one, life's too short to spend any of it drinking what the French call "vin ordinaire"
-- Edited by jimricho on Monday 17th of October 2011 07:25:24 AM
I'm sure I'll get the communications sorted one way or the other.
Thanks again
Tess
Technically the generator is fine for charging a laptop and yes these newer type "inverter" generators do incorporate a pure sine wave inverter to convert the "raw" output from an internal alternator to a very clean and stable form of 240v AC. (cleaner than the mains in fact!)
Note that these comments may not apply to some of the "el cheapo" gennies out there
Darling a 12V laptop power supply uses approximately <5/8 the power of an inverter and 240V power supply. Darling Jacko tested this today with Jacko's laptop fully charged. Darling that is a worthwhile power saving. Darling Jacko also uses a highly efficient inverter and a cheap inverter would probably use 20% more power.
Thanks for that. That's very useful information. Backs up my view that the 12v power supply is a much better option to the inverter.
Jim
what about something like this??
any good for laptops
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qbJ4BYhK8o
-- Edited by milo on Tuesday 18th of October 2011 10:38:12 PM
You still have to recharge the box thingie in the video clip so I fail to see the point in our situation. I can see it being useful perhaps in the case of a business traveller who gets caught out with a flat laptop (or mobile etc) battery and needs to check emails/messages or get out a time critical message.
Perhaps it could also be useful as substitute battery for a laptop whose battery has "seen better days". (depending on the cost of replacing the original battery)
1. Power consumption.
2. Convenience.
3. Cost, (a half to a third the cost of a small PSW inverter.)
Yes maybe... but.. an inverter is probably more versatile for running different equipment, or different chargers etc.
Mine runs 4 different camera battery chargers, 2 diffent laptops, a TV a soldering iron, an angle grinder.. hmmm... and anything else that has a standard 240V plug and doesn't dissipate more than about 600W.
-- Edited by 03_troopy on Thursday 20th of October 2011 06:57:13 PM
-- Edited by Sheba on Thursday 20th of October 2011 07:01:10 PM