Have just discovered that the standard Caravan electric brake units cannot be fitted to some recent 4x4 vehicles as the have air bags in the driver floor well so you have to fit a unit away from floor well area, my auto electrician suggested fitting the unit in the dash and locating the control button where it can be easily reached, two of the vehicles impacted are the Volvo xc90 and the Rav4 but his comment was most new 4x4 vehicles will have this as an issue, suggest you check prior to buying a break unit for your vehicle.
justcruisin01 said
09:40 PM Oct 10, 2011
The way these new vehicles are going we will not be able to fit anything to them soon,even a second battery needs a dc to dc charger due to computors.
Wombat 280 said
10:16 PM Oct 11, 2011
Maybe electric brake controls should be sold as a mandatory part of any towbar package fitted to new vehicles . I try hard to always have everything I want fitted before I take it out of the yard that way the warranty then forms part of the orginal vehicle warranty even if they send it out to another supplier have it fitted .
Some manufactures will not cover damage resulting from retro fits undertaken other suppliers not authorised by them, that's when the fight starts and it all ends in tears and bad feelings allround
jimricho said
09:00 AM Oct 12, 2011
Many smaller trailers don't have or require electric brakes, or any brakes for that matter. Boat trailers mostly have either no brakes (eg small tinnies etc) or over-rider brakes, conventional electric brakes being unsuitable for boat trailers. So for many owners, fitting a controller would be a pointless exercise.
I agree with the comments about new vehicle warranties and did likewise when I purchased my Pajero.
I think Redarc make a remote control brake controller, but I don't think it's a "proportional" (or inertia) unit. (I may stand to be corrected on that). It's to be hoped that if this situation becomes the norm that other manufacturers such as Tekonsha do likewise.
Re the DC-DC charger mentioned by JC01, I have an idea that the alternator voltage has gone back to the old standard 13.8v on these vehicles rather than the more usual 14.4 (approx), and as alluded to, this has something to do with the computer. (there may be other reasons too, not sure). 13.8 is a bit low to get a "full" (or adequate) charge into an auxiliary battery.
It occurs to me that a DC-DC charger is an excellent idea anyway, especially in the case where the auxiliary battery is installed somewhere other than in the engine bay. It as all the "smarts" of a normal "smart" charger and I understand it also takes the place of a conventional dual battery controller.
Thanks Aussietraveller for starting this thread as I (and probably others) weren't aware of this issue
Jim
gubby said
09:04 AM Oct 12, 2011
Wombat 280, that's not neccessarily so. Have a mate who owns horses, a couple of years ago signed up for a brand new Commodore Ute (from a dealer in Geelong) he said he wanted to tow a double horse float so the dealer was fitting a heavy duty Hayman Reese towbar.
When he told me I said the Commodore ute is not rated to tow that much, did they tell you that, he said no, I asked him about warranty, he was of this opinion that as it was fitted by the dealer he would be covered.
I said ring the dealer and ask them about the warranty on the ute if he tows a double horse float, he done this and they said the warranty would be void... He gave them a bit of a blast for not informing him at the time and cancelled his order...
Don't take it for granted that if the dealer fits or organises it that you are covered....
jimricho said
06:07 PM Oct 12, 2011
Regardless of who fitted what any warranty would be subject to the vehicle being operated within its specified limits. In the case of the horse float, just specifying "a double horse float" is a very imprecise way of specifying the load requirements of a towbar, especially to anyone not familiar with horse floats. Also when dealing with car sales people one should be ready with the proverbial "grain of salt".
justcruisin01 said
07:50 PM Oct 12, 2011
jimricho wrote:
Many smaller trailers don't have or require electric brakes, or any brakes for that matter. Boat trailers mostly have either no brakes (eg small tinnies etc) or over-rider brakes, conventional electric brakes being unsuitable for boat trailers. So for many owners, fitting a controller would be a pointless exercise.
I agree with the comments about new vehicle warranties and did likewise when I purchased my Pajero.
I think Redarc make a remote control brake controller, but I don't think it's a "proportional" (or inertia) unit. (I may stand to be corrected on that). It's to be hoped that if this situation becomes the norm that other manufacturers such as Tekonsha do likewise.
Re the DC-DC charger mentioned by JC01, I have an idea that the alternator voltage has gone back to the old standard 13.8v on these vehicles rather than the more usual 14.4 (approx), and as alluded to, this has something to do with the computer. (there may be other reasons too, not sure). 13.8 is a bit low to get a "full" (or adequate) charge into an auxiliary battery.
It occurs to me that a DC-DC charger is an excellent idea anyway, especially in the case where the auxiliary battery is installed somewhere other than in the engine bay. It as all the "smarts" of a normal "smart" charger and I understand it also takes the place of a conventional dual battery controller.
Thanks Aussietraveller for starting this thread as I (and probably others) weren't aware of this issue
Jim
Jim , your on the money with the dc dc unit as there is not regulater on new cars as we used to know them , it is all controlled by the puta, at a constant voltage so there are no highs &/or lows to upset the electronics.
Wombat 280 said
08:40 PM Oct 12, 2011
gubby wrote:
Wombat 280, that's not neccessarily so. Have a mate who owns horses, a couple of years ago signed up for a brand new Commodore Ute (from a dealer in Geelong) he said he wanted to tow a double horse float so the dealer was fitting a heavy duty Hayman Reese towbar.
When he told me I said the Commodore ute is not rated to tow that much, did they tell you that, he said no, I asked him about warranty, he was of this opinion that as it was fitted by the dealer he would be covered.
I said ring the dealer and ask them about the warranty on the ute if he tows a double horse float, he done this and they said the warranty would be void... He gave them a bit of a blast for not informing him at the time and cancelled his order...
Don't take it for granted that if the dealer fits or organises it that you are covered....
I think both purchaser and dealer must share the blame in the case you quote . Knowing you intended to tow a double horse float and having the bigger tow bar fitted shows that the purchaser hasn't done his/her homework on tow capacities. The dealer shouldn't have fitted the bigger two package knowing it exceeded the vehicle specs . The vehicle manufacturer sets the max tow weight and ball weight their vehicle is capable of and if you exceed that then it's all on you even insurers will walk away from any damage / accident claim . In NSW if it's fitted to a new vehicle before you take delivery then the dealer has to stand by the entire package that's why most have authorized agents to undertake accessory fitting
Wombat 280 said
08:57 PM Oct 12, 2011
justcruisin01 wrote:
jimricho wrote:
Many smaller trailers don't have or require electric brakes, or any brakes for that matter. Boat trailers mostly have either no brakes (eg small tinnies etc) or over-rider brakes, conventional electric brakes being unsuitable for boat trailers. So for many owners, fitting a controller would be a pointless exercise.
Wouldn't it be worth it to have it fitted based on the towbar capacity. If based on the TB capacity then they would become as cheap as chips as every tow bar would need a brake controller As an add safety feature it would also over come the number of rigs you see around relying on an override braking system or in some cases relying of the tugs brakes to pull it up . In NSW the need for brakes is based on the weight of the trailer not the load capacity hence a 7x5 box trailer doesn't need brakes for rego but has suspension specs to carry 850 , combined weight of load and trailer now comes in at 1000 Kg plus No brakes required
Jon99w said
10:47 PM Oct 19, 2011
I have just taken my new camper on its maiden outing to get a blueslip. I have a Ezytrail Camper which has a base weight of 520kg. After loading it with my gear I expect it to come up to around 900Kgs. It has electric brakes fitted as standard.
I had previously had a Primus IQ brake controller fitted to my tow tug. I didn't know what to expect, but after crusing around a few streets getting used to the adjustments on the controller, I am Very impressed!
Pity I didn't have one of these setups a few years ago when I nearly rear ended a semi after my brakes boiled going down the mountain to Batemans Bay
Setting the controller at near half, the unit pulls up effortlessly without any excess pressure on the brake pedal. There is no push from the camper at all. In mountainous areas you can just up the adjustment to suit. It also has emergency manual full brake overide.
I believe that ALL trailers and vans should be fitted with such a device.
Who has ever gone to the local sand and soil provider to get a Sq metre of sand or stone???.
Guess how much it weighs? Yep you have just overloaded your standard max 750kg trailer x 3
Nuf said?
Elle on Wheels said
12:19 AM Oct 20, 2011
Hi Jon welcome to the forum. Good old Clyde Mountain and Government Bend will test any brakes for sure. I have many fond memories of traveling from Canberra to the coast and some scarey stories of impatient heavy load drivers.
So the little van I am buying does not have electric brakes - it's a little viscount with a tare of 780kg and i will be solo travelling, towing with a ute which will store much of my stuff. Do people suggest I have them fitted and if I buy something off ebay what sort of kit should I get?
Ma said
05:36 AM Oct 20, 2011
If your reference to impatient heavy load drivers means truck drivers I would reckon I have seen a lot more impatient car drivers on the Clyde than anything else.
We use that road very frequently and in fact will travel on it again today.
It's like any road really, (has it's good and bad stretches) drive to the conditions of the road and your rig and things will be OK.
jimricho said
07:06 AM Oct 20, 2011
Elle on Wheels wrote:
So the little van I am buying does not have electric brakes - it's a little viscount with a tare of 780kg and i will be solo travelling, towing with a ute which will store much of my stuff. Do people suggest I have them fitted and if I buy something off ebay what sort of kit should I get?
If you stay with the over-rider brakes make sure you get them correctly adjusted. It's been my experience (with boat trailers) that they need frequent readjusting. Your caravan maintenance person can show you how to do this yourself.
Your "shakedown" trips may influence your decision on whether you feel you need electric brakes.
These will need to be professionally fitted (or by someone with competent mechanical skills) to the van's axle as well as having the wiring installed in the van and the ute as well. This is in addition to the controller. Give Ebay a big miss on this one!
Jim
PS: I'm not familiar with Clyde Mountain but I have driven from Walcha to Gloucester (involves a long steep descent) on more than one occasion with the van in tow and I would be very reluctant to do that with over-riders.
PPS: BTW if purchasing caravan stuff check out http://www.caravansplus.com.au The business is located in Queenbeyan. I don't think they do over the counter sales but they may allow parcel pick-up thus saving freight costs if you live in the area.
-- Edited by jimricho on Thursday 20th of October 2011 07:19:57 AM
Jon99w said
03:50 PM Oct 20, 2011
Hi Ellie
It is now mandentory in all states for all trailers and vans over 750kgs to have brakes fitted to at least one axle. These can be either Mechanical overide, Hydraulic or Electric.
I would suggest that the overide brakes will suit you best (if not allready fitted) The hydro units are great for boat trailers and the electric units seem to be the go on campers
My camper was fitted with the Electric units. I then purchased a Tekonsha Primus IQ controller and wiring kit on Ebay for $105. The local Auto Electrician then fitted the unit including an 50 AMP Anderson plug to the rear for $150.
Cheers
Jon
PeterD said
01:45 PM Oct 28, 2011
Elle on Wheels wrote:So the little van I am buying does not have electric brakes - it's a little Viscount with a tare of 780kg and i will be solo travelling, towing with a ute which will store much of my stuff. Do people suggest I have them fitted , , ,
Is this van a Nipper? We had a Viscount Nipper as our first van. It was fitted with mechanical over-ride brakes. These worked satisfactorily.
Check to see if your intended van has these fitted. If so just get them serviced and they should serve you well.
Have just discovered that the standard Caravan electric brake units cannot be fitted to some recent 4x4 vehicles as the have air bags in the driver floor well so you have to fit a unit away from floor well area, my auto electrician suggested fitting the unit in the dash and locating the control button where it can be easily reached, two of the vehicles impacted are the Volvo xc90 and the Rav4 but his comment was most new 4x4 vehicles will have this as an issue, suggest you check prior to buying a break unit for your vehicle.
The way these new vehicles are going we will not be able to fit anything to them soon,even a second battery needs a dc to dc charger due to computors.
Some manufactures will not cover damage resulting from retro fits undertaken other suppliers not authorised by them, that's when the fight starts and it all ends in tears and bad feelings allround
I agree with the comments about new vehicle warranties and did likewise when I purchased my Pajero.
I think Redarc make a remote control brake controller, but I don't think it's a "proportional" (or inertia) unit. (I may stand to be corrected on that). It's to be hoped that if this situation becomes the norm that other manufacturers such as Tekonsha do likewise.
Re the DC-DC charger mentioned by JC01, I have an idea that the alternator voltage has gone back to the old standard 13.8v on these vehicles rather than the more usual 14.4 (approx), and as alluded to, this has something to do with the computer. (there may be other reasons too, not sure). 13.8 is a bit low to get a "full" (or adequate) charge into an auxiliary battery.
It occurs to me that a DC-DC charger is an excellent idea anyway, especially in the case where the auxiliary battery is installed somewhere other than in the engine bay. It as all the "smarts" of a normal "smart" charger and I understand it also takes the place of a conventional dual battery controller.
Thanks Aussietraveller for starting this thread as I (and probably others) weren't aware of this issue
Jim
Wombat 280, that's not neccessarily so. Have a mate who owns horses, a couple of years ago signed up for a brand new Commodore Ute (from a dealer in Geelong) he said he wanted to tow a double horse float so the dealer was fitting a heavy duty Hayman Reese towbar.
When he told me I said the Commodore ute is not rated to tow that much, did they tell you that, he said no, I asked him about warranty, he was of this opinion that as it was fitted by the dealer he would be covered.
I said ring the dealer and ask them about the warranty on the ute if he tows a double horse float, he done this and they said the warranty would be void... He gave them a bit of a blast for not informing him at the time and cancelled his order...
Don't take it for granted that if the dealer fits or organises it that you are covered....
Jim , your on the money with the dc dc unit as there is not regulater on new cars as we used to know them , it is all controlled by the puta, at a constant voltage so there are no highs &/or lows to upset the electronics.
I think both purchaser and dealer must share the blame in the case you quote . Knowing you intended to tow a double horse float and having the bigger tow bar fitted shows that the purchaser hasn't done his/her homework on tow capacities. The dealer shouldn't have fitted the bigger two package knowing it exceeded the vehicle specs . The vehicle manufacturer sets the max tow weight and ball weight their vehicle is capable of and if you exceed that then it's all on you even insurers will walk away from any damage / accident claim . In NSW if it's fitted to a new vehicle before you take delivery then the dealer has to stand by the entire package that's why most have authorized agents to undertake accessory fitting
Wouldn't it be worth it to have it fitted based on the towbar capacity. If based on the TB capacity then they would become as cheap as chips as every tow bar would need a brake controller As an add safety feature it would also over come the number of rigs you see around relying on an override braking system or in some cases relying of the tugs brakes to pull it up . In NSW the need for brakes is based on the weight of the trailer not the load capacity hence a 7x5 box trailer doesn't need brakes for rego but has suspension specs to carry 850 , combined weight of load and trailer now comes in at 1000 Kg plus No brakes required
I have just taken my new camper on its maiden outing to get a blueslip. I have a Ezytrail Camper which has a base weight of 520kg. After loading it with my gear I expect it to come up to around 900Kgs. It has electric brakes fitted as standard.
I had previously had a Primus IQ brake controller fitted to my tow tug. I didn't know what to expect, but after crusing around a few streets getting used to the adjustments on the controller, I am Very impressed!
Pity I didn't have one of these setups a few years ago when I nearly rear ended a semi after my brakes boiled going down the mountain to Batemans Bay
Setting the controller at near half, the unit pulls up effortlessly without any excess pressure on the brake pedal. There is no push from the camper at all. In mountainous areas you can just up the adjustment to suit. It also has emergency manual full brake overide.
I believe that ALL trailers and vans should be fitted with such a device.
Who has ever gone to the local sand and soil provider to get a Sq metre of sand or stone???.
Guess how much it weighs? Yep you have just overloaded your standard max 750kg trailer x 3
Nuf said?
So the little van I am buying does not have electric brakes - it's a little viscount with a tare of 780kg and i will be solo travelling, towing with a ute which will store much of my stuff. Do people suggest I have them fitted and if I buy something off ebay what sort of kit should I get?
If your reference to impatient heavy load drivers means truck drivers I would reckon I have seen a lot more impatient car drivers on the Clyde than anything else.
We use that road very frequently and in fact will travel on it again today.
It's like any road really, (has it's good and bad stretches) drive to the conditions of the road and your rig and things will be OK.
If you stay with the over-rider brakes make sure you get them correctly adjusted. It's been my experience (with boat trailers) that they need frequent readjusting. Your caravan maintenance person can show you how to do this yourself.
Your "shakedown" trips may influence your decision on whether you feel you need electric brakes.
These will need to be professionally fitted (or by someone with competent mechanical skills) to the van's axle as well as having the wiring installed in the van and the ute as well. This is in addition to the controller. Give Ebay a big miss on this one!
Jim
PS: I'm not familiar with Clyde Mountain but I have driven from Walcha to Gloucester (involves a long steep descent) on more than one occasion with the van in tow and I would be very reluctant to do that with over-riders.
PPS: BTW if purchasing caravan stuff check out http://www.caravansplus.com.au The business is located in Queenbeyan. I don't think they do over the counter sales but they may allow parcel pick-up thus saving freight costs if you live in the area.
-- Edited by jimricho on Thursday 20th of October 2011 07:19:57 AM
Hi Ellie
It is now mandentory in all states for all trailers and vans over 750kgs to have brakes fitted to at least one axle. These can be either Mechanical overide, Hydraulic or Electric.
I would suggest that the overide brakes will suit you best (if not allready fitted) The hydro units are great for boat trailers and the electric units seem to be the go on campers
My camper was fitted with the Electric units. I then purchased a Tekonsha Primus IQ controller and wiring kit on Ebay for $105. The local Auto Electrician then fitted the unit including an 50 AMP Anderson plug to the rear for $150.
Cheers
Jon
Is this van a Nipper? We had a Viscount Nipper as our first van. It was fitted with mechanical over-ride brakes. These worked satisfactorily.
Check to see if your intended van has these fitted. If so just get them serviced and they should serve you well.