I have 2 , 80 w panels and a reg that came with the panels. I have checked with a multimeter , and there is plenty of amps going in , but not coming out to charge batterys. I think this is the cheap reg. Does anybody know of a smart reg that will show how much amps is going in, and the volts?The one I have only has leds, and only shows battery state.Your help would be apreciated.Thanks, Bill
Ma said
03:09 PM Oct 4, 2011
Same as you Bill with ours.
Will wait with baited breath for any info.
-- Edited by Ma on Tuesday 4th of October 2011 03:09:33 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:39 PM Oct 4, 2011
Plasmatronics Dingo or PL20. Google it. Made in Australia, excelent service, excelent products.
Cheers, Peter
jimricho said
08:43 PM Oct 4, 2011
Ma wrote:
Will wait with baited breath for any info.
baited breath???? I know Blue's a keen fisherman but baiting his wife's breath????
(I suspect you mean bated breath)
(only joking)
justcruisin01 said
10:08 PM Oct 6, 2011
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Plasmatronics Dingo or PL20. Google it. Made in Australia, excelent service, excelent products.
Cheers, Peter
I have two of the plasmatronics PL 20
One in the tug & one that I alternate between the van & camper trailer.
They are great units, full 30 day history of volt peaks & lows, amps in & out, load, state of battery charge,saftey shut down,programable to battery amp cap.etc etc etc.
Ma said
10:13 PM Oct 6, 2011
jimricho wrote:
Ma wrote:
Will wait with baited breath for any info.
baited breath???? I know Blue's a keen fisherman but baiting his wife's breath????
(I suspect you mean bated breath)
(only joking)
Have you ever kissed a fisherperson (note I didn't say man) after he/she/it has done a Rex Hunt.......................................I thought not.................
bill12 said
02:50 PM Oct 7, 2011
I don,t just kiss them, I give them tungis.Old fishermen never die- they only taste that way!
Jacko said
09:12 PM Oct 8, 2011
Darling Bill12 if you are going to spend money a wise investment is always the prudent way to go darling. Darling the Morningstar Prostar will meet your needs just perfectly dear. Darling have a little squizzie at the website http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/pro-star
Darling the Prostar is temperature compensated precision regulator unlike Plasmatronics. Darling the Plasmatronics is like the T model Ford of the solar world, outdated, old tired positive regulation technology with no temp compensation as standard. Darling the other issue is having to push buttons on the Plasmatronics to get a readout. Darling another failure of Plasmatronics you need to change the charging settings all through the year as the seasons change to charge your battery correctly.
Mr Red said
01:35 PM Oct 16, 2011
Hi Guy`s,
While on the subject of solar,I would like to ask anyone who has a solar kit did you buy them already assembled or buy the parts and you assembled them yourself.
Thanks Mr Red.
blaze said
03:11 PM Oct 16, 2011
Mr Red wrote:
Hi Guy`s,
While on the subject of solar,I would like to ask anyone who has a solar kit did you buy them already assembled or buy the parts and you assembled them yourself.
Thanks Mr Red.
I purchased seperate units, it pays to have the regulatop as close to the battery as possible to help eliminate voltage drop. When its mounted on the solar paneland is regulated back to 13.5 volts, it may be only 12.75 volts by the time it gets to the battery but if its mounted at the battery it may come to the regulator at 17.5 volts, go into the regulator and come out to the battery a 13.5 vplts (figures used as just fictitious)
cheers
blaze
Mr Red said
05:56 PM Oct 16, 2011
Hi Blaze,
Yes i agree with what you say about the regulator being as close to battery as possible.
I have looked at a lot of pre made kits and every regulator is mounted to back of panel.
So now I am looking at buying each part and assembling it myself,so now I to have get good quality parts.
Thanks Mr Red.
jimricho said
07:11 PM Oct 16, 2011
I'm not a solar expert but it would seem to me that 13.5v would take "forever" to fully charge a wet or AGM battery regardless of how much sunshine there is, and that's before the voltage drop mentioned by Blaze. It would therefore also seem to me that a regulator with a few "smarts" would be a better option than just using larger (or more) panels to make up the deficiency. I'm a bit out of my league on solar so I'd be interested in any thoughts.
blaze said
07:28 PM Oct 16, 2011
My volt meter read 14.3 volts at 7.30am this morning, I am using 105amp/h battery, 190 watt 24 volt pannel fixed to the roof of my van, this runs into a 24 to 12volt regulator. My sola guy said to me this system was 30% more efficent than a 12 volt system. The cost of the panel and reg was just under $1000 cheers blaze
Jacko said
07:02 PM Oct 18, 2011
blaze wrote:
My volt meter read 14.3 volts at 7.30am this morning, I am using 105amp/h battery, 190 watt 24 volt pannel fixed to the roof of my van, this runs into a 24 to 12volt regulator. My sola guy said to me this system was 30% more efficent than a 12 volt system. The cost of the panel and reg was just under $1000 cheers blaze
Darling Blaze your sola guy is telling whopping great big doodooos. Darling 12V panel is more efficient with a quality MPPT controller than 24V panel. Darling these people that are telling the whopping great doodooos on MPPT have no idea of the technology and must have issues understanding the technical writings. Darling in fact solar panel mounted on flat roof a quality PWM regulator compared to quality MPPT regulator is so marginal to say no difference. Darling spend the money on an extra solar panel rather than quality MPPT requlator. Darling an extra panel will give you real extra amps not fictional amps some doodooo telling sola guy tells you.
jimricho said
07:18 PM Oct 18, 2011
Solar is not my forte so I'll ask the question.....Is a 24volt panel(s) functionally equivalent to two 12 volt panels in series. If so what is the unregulated output voltage? Is it in the range 32 - 36 volts (ie twice that of a 12v panel).
Jacko said
08:16 PM Oct 18, 2011
jimricho wrote:
Solar is not my forte so I'll ask the question.....Is a 24volt panel(s) functionally equivalent to two 12 volt panels in series. If so what is the unregulated output voltage? Is it in the range 32 - 36 volts (ie twice that of a 12v panel).
Darling Jim yes, equivalent to 2 x 12V panels at 17V each x 2 =34V ± a volt or two. Reducing the voltage to 14.3V from 34V uses more energy than 17V to 14.3V. Darling you cannot have higher voltage reduction without pain.
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:37 PM Oct 18, 2011
The PLT and PLTB are temperature sensors that are optional with the PL20 regulator. Plasmatronics are high quality Australian designed and manufactured product. From personal experience, their technical support is superb. I s generally recognised that a quality MPPT regulator will outperform a PWM regulator during less than optimum sun conditions.
Cheers, Peter
jimricho said
08:51 PM Oct 18, 2011
Jacko wrote:
jimricho wrote:
Solar is not my forte so I'll ask the question.....Is a 24volt panel(s) functionally equivalent to two 12 volt panels in series. If so what is the unregulated output voltage? Is it in the range 32 - 36 volts (ie twice that of a 12v panel).
Darling Jim yes, equivalent to 2 x 12V panels at 17V each x 2 =34V ± a volt or two. Reducing the voltage to 14.3V from 34V uses more energy than 17V to 14.3V. Darling you cannot have higher voltage reduction without pain.
I thought that may have been the case, also confirms my thought that a 24v panel is a waste of volts and money when the end object is to charge a 12v battery
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:31 PM Oct 18, 2011
On the other hand, transmitting the power from the panels to the regulator at twice the voltage will incur considerably less losses due to voltage drop, so it is not a simple yes/no decision.
Cheers, Peter
jimricho said
07:42 AM Oct 19, 2011
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
On the other hand, transmitting the power from the panels to the regulator at twice the voltage will incur considerably less losses due to voltage drop, so it is not a simple yes/no decision.
Cheers, Peter
Wouldn't a heavier gauge cable be a significantly less expensive way of doing that?
Would an appropriate regulator (MPPT?) be necessary to make use of this extra voltage. It seems to me that a "common or garden" variety regulator would just dissipate this extra voltage. Watt for watt you're only going to get half the current out of a 24v panel campared to a 12v panel. (watts = volts X amps) If the regulator can't turn this extra voltage into current it seems an expensive waste.
Would voltage drop be a problem anyway in the smaller systems we've been discussing recently? (Assuming the cable sizes are adequate and the controller is installed close to the battery)
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Friday 21st of October 2011 10:38:34 AM
jimricho said
06:40 PM Oct 21, 2011
Thanks for that link Peter. As I've said previously that although I have a career background in electronics I don't have "hands on" with solar so I'm on a learning curve. However the explanation in that thread does generally line up with my understanding of the various types of controllers. I still fail to see why 24v panels would be better than the much less expensive option of using adequate size cable in the first place, even with an MPPT.
jimricho said
06:51 PM Oct 21, 2011
Getting back to Bill's original question.... I'd suggest doing the measurements when the battery is significantly discharged (but not dead flat! don't do that, batteries cost too much to replace!)
oldtrack123 said
10:11 PM Oct 21, 2011
Hi Jim
RE :"
[Quote]Would an appropriate regulator (MPPT?) be necessary to make use of this extra voltage. It seems to me that a "common or garden" variety regulator would just dissipate this extra voltage. Watt for watt you're only going to get half the current out of a 24v panel campared to a 12v panel. (watts = volts X amps) If the regulator can't turn this extra voltage into current it seems an expensive waste.
Would voltage drop be a problem anyway in the smaller systems we've been discussing recently? (Assuming the cable sizes are adequate and the controller is installed close to the batter""quote ]
A MPPT reg is designed to track the solar panel's peak power point
Basically it takes the available solar output & converts its to more current@ a lower voltage
It makes use of the Power lost in the PANELS with a standard PWM reg
eg standard Pwm with a 100Wt 12v nominal [max power @ about 17v panel & the battery voltage @ 13v loss across the reg around 0.6v
Actual useful energy into the battery is 5.88A x13.6v =80 W
The missing 20watts goes into panel heating
Same set up but MPPT reg
The reg searchs for the max power point [which will vary with solar radiation]
The current from the panel remains @ 5.88A but due to impedance matching the whole 17v is available to the MPPT reg
Neglecting losses the output from the reg is now it's input @17v x 5.88A v Theoretically 100watts
The actual extra depend on the panel max powerpoint @ particular time
They work to their best advantage under poor light conditions
Re panels 12v or 24v
I donot like the idea of 2x12 =24 v,if one s shaded the output of the other can be seriously restricted
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 22nd of October 2011 09:56:21 AM
jimricho said
08:04 AM Oct 22, 2011
Thanks Peter (OT123), that's concurs with my understanding of it. Also confirms my view (and that of others on the forum with a technical background) that 24v panels are a pointless exercise when charging 12v batteries. From knowledge that I've gleaned from this thread it seems blindingly obvious that if one has two 12v panels, parallel them, don't series them if one wishes to get the best value out of their hard earned dollars.
jimricho said
08:20 AM Oct 22, 2011
As a "non-solar" person (but may soon become a "solar" person, hence my interest) may I be so bold as to summarise this thread for the benefit of Bill (and Ma and others, including myself).....
1. Don't waste your money on 24v panels to charge 12v batteries, just make sure the cable sizes are adequate.
2. Regulators...
.....Basic regulators/controllers.... least cost, ok but not as good as the following:
.....PWM...smarter and will do a better job of charging the battery but still doesn't make best use of the panel's output
.....MPPT...smartest, advantages of a PWM and makes best use of the panel's output.
3. The Ctek D250S Dual offers the best of both worlds as it combines a 12v - 12v smart charger (for charging from the vehicle's engine) and a MPPT solar regulator.
4. Locate the regulator as close as is practical to the battery.
I have 2 , 80 w panels and a reg that came with the panels. I have checked with a multimeter , and there is plenty of amps going in , but not coming out to charge batterys. I think this is the cheap reg. Does anybody know of a smart reg that will show how much amps is going in, and the volts?The one I have only has leds, and only shows battery state.Your help would be apreciated.Thanks, Bill
Same as you Bill with ours.
Will wait with baited breath for any info.
-- Edited by Ma on Tuesday 4th of October 2011 03:09:33 PM
Made in Australia, excelent service, excelent products.
Cheers,
Peter
baited breath???? I know Blue's a keen fisherman but baiting his wife's breath????
(I suspect you mean bated breath)
(only joking)
I have two of the plasmatronics PL 20
One in the tug & one that I alternate between the van & camper trailer.
They are great units, full 30 day history of volt peaks & lows, amps in & out, load, state of battery charge,saftey shut down,programable to battery amp cap.etc etc etc.
Have you ever kissed a fisherperson (note I didn't say man) after he/she/it has done a Rex Hunt.....................
..................I thought not.................
Darling Bill12 if you are going to spend money a wise investment is always the prudent way to go darling. Darling the Morningstar Prostar will meet your needs just perfectly dear. Darling have a little squizzie at the website http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/pro-star
Darling the Prostar is temperature compensated precision regulator unlike Plasmatronics. Darling the Plasmatronics is like the T model Ford of the solar world, outdated, old tired positive regulation technology with no temp compensation as standard. Darling the other issue is having to push buttons on the Plasmatronics to get a readout. Darling another failure of Plasmatronics you need to change the charging settings all through the year as the seasons change to charge your battery correctly.
Hi Guy`s,
While on the subject of solar,I would like to ask anyone who has a solar kit did you buy them already assembled or buy the parts and you assembled them yourself.
Thanks Mr Red.
I purchased seperate units, it pays to have the regulatop as close to the battery as possible to help eliminate voltage drop. When its mounted on the solar paneland is regulated back to 13.5 volts, it may be only 12.75 volts by the time it gets to the battery but if its mounted at the battery it may come to the regulator at 17.5 volts, go into the regulator and come out to the battery a 13.5 vplts (figures used as just fictitious)
cheers
blaze
Hi Blaze,
Yes i agree with what you say about the regulator being as close to battery as possible.
I have looked at a lot of pre made kits and every regulator is mounted to back of panel.
So now I am looking at buying each part and assembling it myself,so now I to have get good quality parts.
Thanks Mr Red.
cheers
blaze
Darling Blaze your sola guy is telling whopping great big doodooos. Darling 12V panel is more efficient with a quality MPPT controller than 24V panel. Darling these people that are telling the whopping great doodooos on MPPT have no idea of the technology and must have issues understanding the technical writings. Darling in fact solar panel mounted on flat roof a quality PWM regulator compared to quality MPPT regulator is so marginal to say no difference. Darling spend the money on an extra solar panel rather than quality MPPT requlator. Darling an extra panel will give you real extra amps not fictional amps some doodooo telling sola guy tells you.
Darling Jim yes, equivalent to 2 x 12V panels at 17V each x 2 =34V ± a volt or two. Reducing the voltage to 14.3V from 34V uses more energy than 17V to 14.3V. Darling you cannot have higher voltage reduction without pain.
Plasmatronics are high quality Australian designed and manufactured product. From personal experience, their technical support is superb.
I s generally recognised that a quality MPPT regulator will outperform a PWM regulator during less than optimum sun conditions.
Cheers,
Peter
I thought that may have been the case, also confirms my thought that a 24v panel is a waste of volts and money when the end object is to charge a 12v battery
Cheers,
Peter
Wouldn't a heavier gauge cable be a significantly less expensive way of doing that?
Would an appropriate regulator (MPPT?) be necessary to make use of this extra voltage. It seems to me that a "common or garden" variety regulator would just dissipate this extra voltage. Watt for watt you're only going to get half the current out of a 24v panel campared to a 12v panel. (watts = volts X amps) If the regulator can't turn this extra voltage into current it seems an expensive waste.
Would voltage drop be a problem anyway in the smaller systems we've been discussing recently? (Assuming the cable sizes are adequate and the controller is installed close to the battery)
http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20866
Excellent explanation here from Morning Star.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Friday 21st of October 2011 10:38:34 AM
Hi Jim
RE :"
[Quote]Would an appropriate regulator (MPPT?) be necessary to make use of this extra voltage. It seems to me that a "common or garden" variety regulator would just dissipate this extra voltage. Watt for watt you're only going to get half the current out of a 24v panel campared to a 12v panel. (watts = volts X amps) If the regulator can't turn this extra voltage into current it seems an expensive waste.
Would voltage drop be a problem anyway in the smaller systems we've been discussing recently? (Assuming the cable sizes are adequate and the controller is installed close to the batter""quote ]
A MPPT reg is designed to track the solar panel's peak power point
Basically it takes the available solar output & converts its to more current@ a lower voltage
It makes use of the Power lost in the PANELS with a standard PWM reg
eg standard Pwm with a 100Wt 12v nominal [max power @ about 17v panel & the battery voltage @ 13v loss across the reg around 0.6v
Actual useful energy into the battery is 5.88A x13.6v =80 W
The missing 20watts goes into panel heating
Same set up but MPPT reg
The reg searchs for the max power point [which will vary with solar radiation]
The current from the panel remains @ 5.88A but due to impedance matching the whole 17v is available to the MPPT reg
Neglecting losses the output from the reg is now it's input @17v x 5.88A v Theoretically 100watts
The actual extra depend on the panel max powerpoint @ particular time
They work to their best advantage under poor light conditions
Re panels 12v or 24v
I donot like the idea of 2x12 =24 v,if one s shaded the output of the other can be seriously restricted
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Saturday 22nd of October 2011 09:56:21 AM
1. Don't waste your money on 24v panels to charge 12v batteries, just make sure the cable sizes are adequate.
2. Regulators...
.....Basic regulators/controllers.... least cost, ok but not as good as the following:
.....PWM...smarter and will do a better job of charging the battery but still doesn't make best use of the panel's output
.....MPPT...smartest, advantages of a PWM and makes best use of the panel's output.
3. The Ctek D250S Dual offers the best of both worlds as it combines a 12v - 12v smart charger (for charging from the vehicle's engine) and a MPPT solar regulator.
4. Locate the regulator as close as is practical to the battery.
Hi Jim
A pretty good suming up
Peter