READ THIS IN THIS MORNINGS PAPER AND THOUGHT SOME OF YOU MIGHT LIKE TO COMMENT. I AM NOT EXPRESSING MY PERSONAL VIEWS. IF THIS ARTICLE OFFENDS ANYONE OR YOU THINK IT SHOULD NOT BE ON THE FORUM I WILL DELETE IT.
CHILDCARE workers who send tantrum-throwing toddlers to "time out" risk hefty fines under national childcare laws to come into force next year.
New regulations will expose childcare centres to penalties if children are required to take part in religious or cultural activities, such as Christmas tree decoration or Easter hat parades hunts.
Childcare supervisors risk personal fines for the first time, under the national legislation being adopted by state and territory governments.
Centres could be fined as much as $50,000, and supervisors $10,000, for failing to ensure children are adequately supervised, or for using "inappropriate discipline" to keep order.
Centres will be banned from using any form of corporal punishment, as well as "any discipline that is unreasonable in the circumstances".
The Education and Care Services National Act, which has been passed by Victoria as the "host jurisdiction" and will be replicated by other states and territories, does not define "unreasonable" discipline.
But draft regulations with the legislation show childcare supervisors risk $2000 fines for "separating" children.
Supervisors must "ensure that a child being educated and cared for by the service is not separated from other children for any reason other than illness or an accident", the regulations state.
Children cannot be "required to undertake activities that are inappropriate, having regard to each family's family and cultural values, age and physical and intellectual development".
The childcare industry yesterday demanded greater clarity, warning that staff could be fined for putting a toddler in "time out" or asking a child to help decorate a Christmas tree.
The Australian Childcare Alliance, representing private centres, called for a definition of "separation", noting that each state and territory could interpret the law differently.
Childcare centres had banned smacking, and no longer used the "naughty corner" technique of isolating children who were violent or disobedient, alliance president Gwynn Bridge said.
But the regulations left the way open for a supervisor to be fined if a litigious parent objected to a child being taken out of a group for hitting other children, or throwing sand.
"There is time out but naughty corners went out years ago," Ms Bridge said. "You move a child a short way from the group and talk to them about their behaviour.
"But we don't know the meaning of the word 'separate' - is it distance? This needs clarification, otherwise people will be in breach without realising it."
The regulations also require family carers, who normally look after a handful of children in their homes, to ensure regular visitors are "fit and proper persons".
Criminal checks would have to be carried out on any neighbours, friends or relatives who visit while children are present on more than three days in a month, or seven days a year
-- Edited by Ma on Monday 4th of April 2011 07:30:46 AM
Yuglamron said
08:26 AM Apr 4, 2011
YES Politically Correctness at the extreme.
We have had discipline out the window years ago and look at what we reap now.No respect and Americanisms everywhere. No respect for elders ,the law or any self discipline. Binge drinking and so called soft drugs being pushed to legalise.
Dare we imagine what our kids will reap if this goes ahead. How will a child know if he is doing wrong and how will kids learn acceptable behaviour.
There are some wonderful people in childcare centres working very hard to look after and teach our kids.
Underpaid and overworked as they are. I really pity them if they have to work under those projected laws.
Wombat 280 said
09:03 AM Apr 4, 2011
The probem with childcare workers is the government seems to want to only have those with degrees looking after your snotters . It won't be long before if they don't have at least one degree in nappy changing it will be impossible to get a job changing even dirty nappies . Why is it we are hell bent on stopping kids been kids, rather parents have this urge to turn them into Mensa students between the ages of zero to five. At the moment there are many childcare places taken up with 0-1 year old's so Aunt Julia has come up with the scam of having paid maternity leave for the first year so that should now free up spots in paid childcare. Many centers struggle now to fill their books and if it wasn't for the Welfare , Tennis mums and general social butterflies many days of the week would have very reduced numbers in most centers. You are paying for this , there aren't many parents out there paying full fees most of the fees are picked up by US the working poor
Happywanderer said
10:12 AM Apr 4, 2011
I haven't read all your comments yet but did hear it on the news. It's b.....y crazy. How are they supposed to care for these kids if they are not allowed to do what is entirely normal. Aren't you supposed to send a naughty child to time out. Aren't we allowed to celebrate Christmas anymore. No wonder the young generation is growing up a heap of nongs!!!! there is so much bad behaviour out there from teens and it comes from parents not dissiplining them enough. Now their carers cant discipline them either.
My daughter works in childcare, she's just on 20 weeks pregnant with her first baby and has contracted slapcheek from the children she looks after. For anyone who doesn't know what that is. It's Human Parvovirus. 2 children were diagnosed with it last week and she was sent home. Her baby is now at risk. She can't go back to work for the moment since last Monday, she has had all sorts of blood tests, she's back to the doctor this morning at 11am to see what happens next. If it goes through to the baby it could cause the baby to become aenemic and will need to go to Melb for the baby to have blood transfusions while still in the womb. I bet she won't get work cover for that.
How many workers will now leave the child care profession because of these stupid laws. They will leave in droves, they can't afford big fines for doing what seems natural and right.
Wombat 280 said
12:12 PM Apr 4, 2011
The retraining leap from early childhood teaching to primary school is that great so why would anyone stay in a job that involves shift work with only public holidays off and full 8 hour shifts for very poor dollars, beats the hell out of me
valnrob said
12:48 PM Apr 4, 2011
Well, isn't that weird....... Australia is a Christian country !!!!! WTF ???? Not celebrate Easter, Christmas........ What's next ???? Anzac Day ???? Come on wake up to yourselves the so call do gooders and the powers that be. Sure Australia is Multi-Cultural, but heyyyyy.... does that have to mean we can't openly celebrate our beliefs. If we went to another country that isn't Christian don't we have to fit into their way of life, wear their style of clothing??? or run the risk of looking like "meat"
My kids looked forward to the Easter Hat Parade and decorations at Christmas, looks like that will be the end of those celebrations. Sure kids need discipline but they also need to be able to be what they are - KIDS. The whole system is wrong. Political Correctness????? pfttttt.
Happywanderer said
03:07 PM Apr 4, 2011
wombat280. I can't work out your statement, did you miss out some words? It doesn't make sense.
Two Strays said
03:38 PM Apr 4, 2011
Hi All
It is interesting to note that the authors of this law regarding child care centres have not been identified. My guess is that they are hairy armpit academics who do not have children or have intentions of becoming parents.
My daughter, as a secondary school teacher is now on the receiving end of the abuse that is the direct result of children who have not been disciplined when they were younger. There is no recourse for teachers to discipline students. They have got to grin and bear it.
Parents are scared to discipline their children of fear of being charged with abuse.
Bring back old fashion correction methods.
Onedodger said
04:08 PM Apr 4, 2011
I predict a mass exodus of child care workers.
And a new generation of super brats in the making.
What I think of this new regulation can only be .??????????
-- Edited by Onedodger on Monday 4th of April 2011 04:09:22 PM
Happywanderer said
05:05 PM Apr 4, 2011
Just talked to my daughter, she said the naughty corner/timeout has never been allowed. Its been like that for years. Its not an issue as they know they are not allowed and there are better ways. They also have ways of dealing with religious occasions. Its written in the forms from the parents what they require for their children depending on their beliefs and they abide by it. So really nothing much has changed.
Nicholstones said
07:00 PM Apr 4, 2011
Happywanderer wrote:
Just talked to my daughter, she said the naughty corner/timeout has never been allowed. Its been like that for years. Its not an issue as they know they are not allowed and there are better ways. They also have ways of dealing with religious occasions. Its written in the forms from the parents what they require for their children depending on their beliefs and they abide by it. So really nothing much has changed.
Well that's a bit of a cold shower for the frothing-at-the-mouth brigade. What a shame that the world isn't going to end after all, just when everyone was really enjoying the prospect.
Gerty Dancer said
07:10 PM Apr 4, 2011
From my brief foray into a child-care centre with Grandaughter, they all seemed well enough behaved and not running wild.
Who would want to be a child-care worker anyhow? Their pay in no way compensates them for the responsibility they take and training they must undergo (more being required soon).
Happywanderer said
07:54 PM Apr 4, 2011
I called into see daughter one day about a year ago while she was at work. She was in charge of the baby section. 6 weeks to 18 months. There she was with a baby on her lap bottle feeding it. One under each arm giving them a cuddle, and 3 sitting on the floor at her feet. Not one was screaming, having a tantrum or any other horrible thing littles can sometimes too. My only thought at the time was Well I have no worries when she has her own, she will make a better mother than I ever was. And now she's pregnant!!
capt cream bun said
07:59 PM Apr 4, 2011
I think we are being served lots of changes the government beleive are good and wise directions to make on behalf of the general population, but what i believe is we are as a community and as individuals losing more and more freedom. We are being controlled more and more.
jules47 said
08:38 PM Apr 4, 2011
My daughter works in childcare - the pay is atrocious considering these people are helping to raise our young - she has to do training to get her certificate - luckily paid for by the centre. If it got so crazy that only those with a degree could work in this industry, the industry would go out of business, because no one could afford to pay the fees.
Where whe works the atomosphere is always terrific - happy children, care taken of the shy ones, lots of fun for all age groups, and the whole place is an open book, with parents able to visit at any time, if I had little ones I would not hesitate to send my children there.
What's they old saying "if it's not broke, why fix it?"
Beth54 said
06:28 AM Apr 5, 2011
The day care centres around here use 'STOP' with the hand raised, if they're doing something naughty. All the bubs in my family know exactly what it means. In fact, my 22 month old grand-daughter did it to me the other day.
And all the Mum's use 'time out', weahter they use it in the centres or not.
Part of the article says 'ensure that the child is being educated'. Well isn't this part of educating...teaching them what innaproriate behaviour is?!
Beth54 said
09:24 AM Apr 5, 2011
Did anyone else see Dr Michael Carr-Gregg on Sunrise this morning? I've listened to him many times in the past and he always makes sense.
On this subject, he said there's nothing wrong with time-out. Children need boundaries, and they need to learn when certain behaviour is unacceptable. They should be given one warning, and then moved away from the other children.
Ma said
09:47 AM Apr 5, 2011
It's like my little grandsons (well not so little anymore). They knew the boundaries when they came to Grandma's place when they were little and still revert to them now that they are quite some years older. They might do things at home that they can't do here, but that's the parent's problem.
We all need boundaries in life or it would be just one big free for all.
Firefly said
10:09 AM Apr 5, 2011
Mine are the same. I will often hear the littlies say, "but we not allowed to that at Nan's house."
Happywanderer said
11:24 AM Apr 5, 2011
I totally agree with Dr Michael Carr-Gregg. I see nothing at all wrong with Timeout. The Nanny did it well on her show. Daughter says that is so outdated and they haven't been allowed to use that method all the time she's been working in childcare which is at least 9 years. She says if a child misbehaves, they take them away from the situation, have a talk to them and put their attention into something else. It works she says. I suppose paid workers have to be careful these days, they can be sued by the parents for the littlest thing if something goes wrong.
CHILDCARE workers who send tantrum-throwing toddlers to "time out" risk hefty fines under national childcare laws to come into force next year.
New regulations will expose childcare centres to penalties if children are required to take part in religious or cultural activities, such as Christmas tree decoration or Easter hat parades hunts.
Childcare supervisors risk personal fines for the first time, under the national legislation being adopted by state and territory governments.
Centres could be fined as much as $50,000, and supervisors $10,000, for failing to ensure children are adequately supervised, or for using "inappropriate discipline" to keep order.
Centres will be banned from using any form of corporal punishment, as well as "any discipline that is unreasonable in the circumstances".
The Education and Care Services National Act, which has been passed by Victoria as the "host jurisdiction" and will be replicated by other states and territories, does not define "unreasonable" discipline.
But draft regulations with the legislation show childcare supervisors risk $2000 fines for "separating" children.
Supervisors must "ensure that a child being educated and cared for by the service is not separated from other children for any reason other than illness or an accident", the regulations state.
Children cannot be "required to undertake activities that are inappropriate, having regard to each family's family and cultural values, age and physical and intellectual development".
The childcare industry yesterday demanded greater clarity, warning that staff could be fined for putting a toddler in "time out" or asking a child to help decorate a Christmas tree.
The Australian Childcare Alliance, representing private centres, called for a definition of "separation", noting that each state and territory could interpret the law differently.
Childcare centres had banned smacking, and no longer used the "naughty corner" technique of isolating children who were violent or disobedient, alliance president Gwynn Bridge said.
But the regulations left the way open for a supervisor to be fined if a litigious parent objected to a child being taken out of a group for hitting other children, or throwing sand.
"There is time out but naughty corners went out years ago," Ms Bridge said. "You move a child a short way from the group and talk to them about their behaviour.
"But we don't know the meaning of the word 'separate' - is it distance? This needs clarification, otherwise people will be in breach without realising it."
The regulations also require family carers, who normally look after a handful of children in their homes, to ensure regular visitors are "fit and proper persons".
Criminal checks would have to be carried out on any neighbours, friends or relatives who visit while children are present on more than three days in a month, or seven days a year
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/ban-on-naughty-corner-easter-egg-hunts/story-e6frfkvr-1226033027252#ixzz1IUtHa6Oz
-- Edited by Ma on Monday 4th of April 2011 07:30:46 AM
YES Politically Correctness at the extreme.
We have had discipline out the window years ago and look at what we reap now.No respect and Americanisms everywhere. No respect for elders ,the law or any self discipline. Binge drinking and so called soft drugs being pushed to legalise.
Dare we imagine what our kids will reap if this goes ahead. How will a child know if he is doing wrong and how will kids learn acceptable behaviour.
There are some wonderful people in childcare centres working very hard to look after and teach our kids.
Underpaid and overworked as they are. I really pity them if they have to work under those projected laws.
The probem with childcare workers is the government seems to want to only have those with degrees looking after your snotters . It won't be long before if they don't have at least one degree in nappy changing it will be impossible to get a job changing even dirty nappies . Why is it we are hell bent on stopping kids been kids, rather parents have this urge to turn them into Mensa students between the ages of zero to five. At the moment there are many childcare places taken up with 0-1 year old's so Aunt Julia has come up with the scam of having paid maternity leave for the first year so that should now free up spots in paid childcare. Many centers struggle now to fill their books and if it wasn't for the Welfare , Tennis mums and general social butterflies many days of the week would have very reduced numbers in most centers. You are paying for this , there aren't many parents out there paying full fees most of the fees are picked up by US the working poor
It's b.....y crazy. How are they supposed to care for these kids if they are not allowed to do what is entirely normal. Aren't you supposed to send a naughty child to time out. Aren't we allowed to celebrate Christmas anymore.
No wonder the young generation is growing up a heap of nongs!!!! there is so much bad behaviour out there from teens and it comes from parents not dissiplining them enough. Now their carers cant discipline them either.
My daughter works in childcare, she's just on 20 weeks pregnant with her first baby and has contracted slapcheek from the children she looks after. For anyone who doesn't know what that is. It's Human Parvovirus. 2 children were diagnosed with it last week and she was sent home. Her baby is now at risk. She can't go back to work for the moment since last Monday, she has had all sorts of blood tests, she's back to the doctor this morning at 11am to see what happens next. If it goes through to the baby it could cause the baby to become aenemic and will need to go to Melb for the baby to have blood transfusions while still in the womb.
I bet she won't get work cover for that.
How many workers will now leave the child care profession because of these stupid laws. They will leave in droves, they can't afford big fines for doing what seems natural and right.
My kids looked forward to the Easter Hat Parade and decorations at Christmas, looks like that will be the end of those celebrations. Sure kids need discipline but they also need to be able to be what they are - KIDS. The whole system is wrong. Political Correctness????? pfttttt.
It is interesting to note that the authors of this law regarding child care centres have not been identified. My guess is that they are hairy armpit academics who do not have children or have intentions of becoming parents.
My daughter, as a secondary school teacher is now on the receiving end of the abuse that is the direct result of children who have not been disciplined when they were younger. There is no recourse for teachers to discipline students. They have got to grin and bear it.
Parents are scared to discipline their children of fear of being charged with abuse.
Bring back old fashion correction methods.
I predict a mass exodus of child care workers.
And a new generation of super brats in the making.
What I think of this new regulation can only be
.??????????
-- Edited by Onedodger on Monday 4th of April 2011 04:09:22 PM
They also have ways of dealing with religious occasions. Its written in the forms from the parents what they require for their children depending on their beliefs and they abide by it.
So really nothing much has changed.
Well that's a bit of a cold shower for the frothing-at-the-mouth brigade. What a shame that the world isn't going to end after all, just when everyone was really enjoying the prospect.
From my brief foray into a child-care centre with Grandaughter, they all seemed well enough behaved and not running wild.
Who would want to be a child-care worker anyhow? Their pay in no way compensates them for the responsibility they take and training they must undergo (more being required soon).
There she was with a baby on her lap bottle feeding it. One under each arm giving them a cuddle, and 3 sitting on the floor at her feet. Not one was screaming, having a tantrum or any other horrible thing littles can sometimes too.
My only thought at the time was Well I have no worries when she has her own, she will make a better mother than I ever was. And now she's pregnant!!
I think we are being served lots of changes the government beleive are good and wise directions to make on behalf of the general population, but what i believe is we are as a community and as individuals losing more and more freedom. We are being controlled more and more.
Where whe works the atomosphere is always terrific - happy children, care taken of the shy ones, lots of fun for all age groups, and the whole place is an open book, with parents able to visit at any time, if I had little ones I would not hesitate to send my children there.
What's they old saying "if it's not broke, why fix it?"
The day care centres around here use 'STOP' with the hand raised, if they're doing something naughty. All the bubs in my family know exactly what it means. In fact, my 22 month old grand-daughter did it to me the other day.
And all the Mum's use 'time out', weahter they use it in the centres or not.
Part of the article says 'ensure that the child is being educated'. Well isn't this part of educating...teaching them what innaproriate behaviour is?!
Did anyone else see Dr Michael Carr-Gregg on Sunrise this morning? I've listened to him many times in the past and he always makes sense.
On this subject, he said there's nothing wrong with time-out. Children need boundaries, and they need to learn when certain behaviour is unacceptable. They should be given one warning, and then moved away from the other children.
It's like my little grandsons (well not so little anymore). They knew the boundaries when they came to Grandma's place when they were little and still revert to them now that they are quite some years older. They might do things at home that they can't do here, but that's the parent's problem.
We all need boundaries in life or it would be just one big free for all.
Mine are the same. I will often hear the littlies say, "but we not allowed to that at Nan's house."
She says if a child misbehaves, they take them away from the situation, have a talk to them and put their attention into something else. It works she says.
I suppose paid workers have to be careful these days, they can be sued by the parents for the littlest thing if something goes wrong.