Well here is one for those of you out there that have your spot lights fitted to the top of your vehicle...
A couple of weeks ago I was pulled over by a motorcycle cop on the freeway into Adelaide, the sole purpose was to give me a ticket for the spotlights I had fitted to the roof baskets on my truck. This ticket cost me $227.....
I was quite put back by this at the time as i had enquired with Qld Transport/ RTA NSW/Vic Roads and SA Transpport about the legality of the fitment and all of these agencies advised that the fit woud be legal.
Now after some research into the mater I have come up with the facts - It is laid out in the Australian Design Rules (ADR13/00) and SA Road Traffic (Vehicle Standards) Rules 1999 under the Road traffic Act 1961 quite clearly that it is not permissable to have these driving/spot lights fitted any higher above the road surface than 1.3 - 1.4metres depending on the rule.
So for all those people planning on using this fit reconsider, it could be quite expensive, the cop involved was quite determined that the rule was being enforced vigorously accross all states and territories and that disregard they advice from all regestration and licensing agencies as they don't have a clue....
Funny thing, they do the rego checks, they do the roadside roadworthy inspections, they provide the traffic inspectors when the police are doing a blitz yet they don't know the laws......sounds rather hypocritical I know but it is true.
Hoo Roo Happy Days grumps
ozi2 said
06:18 PM Oct 26, 2010
G'day Grumpyone, geez mate couldnt you challenge this as you certainly have shown what your intent was and it was to meet the legal issues in each state regarding spotties...............and what a p....to issue the infringement, bad luck mate but hope you can resolve it. cheers, ozi2
jimricho said
06:27 PM Oct 26, 2010
Maybe contact your RAA legal department (if there is one)
Wombat 280 said
08:52 PM Oct 26, 2010
It's always been a vexing issue, the NSW rules once clearly stated that no lights could be mounted at a height greater than the required headlights fitted at the time of manufacture
Same as the use of those below bumper bar fog lights they spell out very clearly the conditions under which your are allowed to active them.
ARB after market accessory 4WD specialist actually have a roof rack basket that has spotties fitted as standard in their Cattle Dog.
Good luck fighting the system that keeps moving the try line
Cruising Granny said
10:39 PM Oct 26, 2010
Jeez Qld, NT and WA are full of roof rack lights. Pig and roo shooters use them all the time.
If the lights were fitted when your vehicle was inspected, why didn't they pick it up?
Maybe the 2 sections aren't communicating under the common laws.
It happens all the time.
The precedent has been set. Unfortunately you've been pinged for something you should have been advised about initially.
This country is so confused, and they expect us to get it right?
We don't have a hope boys and girls.
thommo said
01:31 AM Oct 27, 2010
I wouldn't be absolutely certain, however I believe here in WA if you have spotlights fitted, you must have an even number. ie it is illegal to have just one (or three) fitted, must be two or four! Don't know about fitting them on top of the vehicle, however it must be OK as I have noticed many fitted in that manner.
Thommo.
ozjohn said
10:31 AM Oct 27, 2010
Just because you see a lot of vehicles that have lights fitted to roof racks etc. it doesn't make them legal. As Grumps has stated their mounting position is covered by ADR's. These are Federal laws and negate any State laws that may previously existed. It's a bit like Rod Holders on Bull Bars. Boy! I saw heaps on our recent trip to QLD. Under the ADR's they to are illegal and so are loads of other stuff. We all go merrily on our way quite oblivious to the laws until we get booked. That's life I suppose. ozjohn.
GrumpyOne said
12:10 PM Oct 27, 2010
Hey guys n gals,
Thanx for your support, I have explored this issue well and truely now and am just going to pay the fine, but just for the record this is now a national standard, all states are supposed to comply.
Yes ARB and TJM along with numerous other 4x4 suppliers are providing the same items and it is this that gave the idea along with the safety issues that could be overcome by the high positioning.
As for the number of lights, it is a maximum of 6 accessory lights per vehicle, and the only light that may be fitted to the roof area is a work light that is individually switched and powered independantly of the vehicle lighting system and the light source is dispersed evenly so as not to provide a spotlight effect.
Yes this cop must be looking to fill his quota for promotion and he could have got many more tickets for speeders if he had not wasted his time on such a trivial thing as mine, but alas I was his victim.
As for the legal side, I have spoken to a friend who is a lawyer and he has advised that even though I have done the right thing and sought advice regarding the issue prior to doing the fit I am still in breach and the legal cost would far outweight just paying the fine.
Just for interest sake this is why I fitted them to the roof baskets....
1. Incase of an accident I would still have spotlights, as in most cases the bumper mounted ones are damaged/destroyed by animal strike or similar impacts.
2. On long straight country roads with high temperatures the heat haze absorbs headlight and bumper mounted spottie light emissions and as such reduces the distance you are visible to oncoming traffic (roadtrains). Having the spotties on the highest point increases the distance you are visible by a good deal and thus provides a safer situation.
(Yes in daylight running on desolate roads in the far western parts of the easern states I always run with spotties on, I would also do the same on the tanami, strazleki etc...)
This is just my humble opinion and should not be taken as gsopel in anyway shape or form.
Hoo Roo Happy Days
Grumps
milo said
04:57 PM Oct 27, 2010
this is why we need to have one rule for all states, its stupid other wise
Wombat 280 said
10:18 PM Oct 27, 2010
Milo If there was one set of rules then who would win the pissing comp . Each states likes to think they have if just right. Even the hospital system which Uncle Kev took over and then gave the running responsibilities back to the states. The ADR's are a typical example , why is the Great Wall vehicles allowed on our roads without all the essential safety features we demand be fitted to all other vehicles. made here or imported .
Why is stamp duty still payable after the intro of GST The states keep both sources of revenue
Why is stamp duty in QLD only a fraction of that payable in NSW
Why is it that Port Macquarie hosp has just got the funds to build it's long awaited fourth wing but has to lose 60 full time nursing positions in the process. They can't fully staff the existing facility.
Why is it that pensioners living in the city get subsidized travel every day but those living in the country get three one way travel warrants per year .
Why is it that country people have been slugged 78% for electricity while those in the city got only a 48% slug
There are far more questions than answers to our stuffed up commonwealth of states, if you ran a business like they run the country you would be on the skids very fast. The only thing that saves the states is they have perpetual funding by increasing taxes and charges every time they run short of as quid
VHW said
01:38 AM Oct 28, 2010
Cripes, I have inbuilt spotties on the roof bar of my Nissan X Trail, they were fitted on my model (2003) as standard (one on each side) and are built into the housing of the roof bar.
There is a separate switch for them inside the cab and have to be turned on there, however if you dip your main high beam lights they turn off and have to be switched on again. They are ideal for travelling at night on country roads with no street lights, if a vehicle is approaching you dip your lights and they go off.
Also hand on bush tracks to pick out overhanging branches etc.
So now according this what I have read here I could cop a fine, even though the vehicle was manufactured with them like this.......sheesh !
Firefly said
06:47 AM Oct 28, 2010
This is rather amazing I think. I have never been blinded on the roads by the high spotties, the drivers always seem to have the common sense to make sure they are off when vehicles approach. Not so those horrid fog lights that seem to be standard on everything these days. And so many of the drivers of these cars have them on all the time. Never seen a copper fine one of them yet.
Bad luck with that fine Grumpy and thanks for the warning. We will make sure we don't fit any now thats for sure.
Cruising Granny said
12:30 PM Oct 28, 2010
Oh Wombat! So many questions, so little time.
The worst thing this country has done is sell it's utilities and infrastructure to the private sector.
These corporations are only in it for profit. Huge salaries are paid to their executives, and the shareholders are potentially "rolling in it".
We, the humble customer keep them in the manner to which they've become accustomed.
Now we are encouraged to save power, reduce our impact on energy etc.
That doesn't suit the corporations so they up the cost of power to maintain their profits even though you're using less electricity, waster or gas.
The banks work the same. It's really scary how this is panning out since deregulation.
The tollways system has been sold to private operators. So what percentage goes back into the coffers for which tolls were introduced initially. The Sydney Harbour Bridge toll was introduced to recover the cost of the bridge. This doesn't apply now.
Brisbane charges a toll on every road it seems. Yet this is managed by a private company, which I believe also manages the tolls in Sydney and Melbourne. They get the proceeds, but how much do they pay to the Government? The toll management mob want to make a profit. They're not a charity, I'm sure.
Now the Qld Government is selling the railway network - the infrastructure and the trains. It's currently owned by the taxpayer, right?
Well they're offering "cheap shares" to the taxpayers before they hand it over to the private operator. Why don't they offer "free" shares in proportion to the rates they currently pay?
Not Anna Bligh. She's a bigger pirate than her ancestor.
Now I think it's time to give the Aborigines their land back - no houses, no money, no cars, no disposable nappies, not grog, no KFC.
If the early settlers "stole" their land, and they have what they have now, but they want their land back, let's do it. Give it back as it was 250 years ago when the settlers arrived.
If it wasn't for settlement they wouldn't have what they have now. They can't have it both ways.
No one gets to have their cake AND eat it too, all the time.
Here endeth today's lesson. (I think I've just had a Fire Fly binge-thinking moment)
VHW said
04:38 PM Oct 28, 2010
QR (Queensland Rail) have been flogging the shares for sale over here on TV in the West too Chris, nice pic's of ore trains pulling ore etc.
Thought it a bit odd as far as I know our ore trains are privately owned by BHP and another mining group, although I could be wrong.
GrumpyOne said
01:51 AM Oct 29, 2010
Hey Guys n Gals,
VHW buddy I would think that your high set lights being factory fit would make them legal as they are fitted as part of the vehicle build, if a copper were to issue a fine on them they would be a very very brave copper indeed....
In actual fact there is one set of rules Milo, The Australian Design Rules (ADR) and Australian Standards (ASO), the issue is that each state has had differing state based road and traffic acts and when these were aligned over the past few years each state concentrated on different areas and forgot to pass on information regarding small changes (eg..spotties) that affect everyone, they concentrated as a whole on the important daily things like roundabout ettiquette and common daily driving tasks that were more suited to the city folk, they in turn forgot about the minority country and off road drivers who are in fact the majority in the most cases.
For example in SA, Victoria & WA for instance they clamped down on the old style 5 bar bullbar, which is now illegal accross Australia due to pedestrian safety issues, the old style bar was designed to push the struck object down and under the vehicle and away from the body work to offer panel damage protection, whereas the new style is to push the object struck upwards and onto the bonnet to prevent entrapment & subsequent dragging beneath the vehicle.
This has come about because so many people just walk out in front of traffic these days instead of actually looking where they are going, all too busy listening to their ipods and talking on their mobiles.
The traffic laws have become standardised to a great extent accross Australia over the past few years and we will see this more and more as the years go by, it will get better but as with anything the government gets its hands on it will take decades to complete and even longer to be successful.
As for the differing state laws, it all is governed by Federal Law guidelines which all state laws must comply, much the same as the Local Government Association in Qld puts out sample laws for the councils to use as masters for their individual local laws, the Federal ruling body does the same for the states.
As a side to this rather long winded essay and a bit of trivia this is the general heierarchy of laws, it is quite simple in its basis;
Level 1: Federal/Commonwealth is the superior rule/law in ALL cases. Level 2: State Laws are suboardinate to Federal/Commonwealth Level 3: Local (Council/District/Shire) Laws are suboardinate to State
In all cases if the superior law is unsafe or likely to cause unsafe practices then the next Suboardinate law becomes superior for that section only.
If I have made any errors in this long winded diatribe please forgive my malevolence.....you can beat me later....3 whips overthe pee pee witha wet boot lace will suffice.
Hoo Roo Happy Days Grumps
VHW said
11:51 AM Oct 29, 2010
Thanks for the feedback Grumps, hope it works out that way, being a 2003 model X'Trail perhaps they were compliant before the laws were changed or tightented up be interesting to see what happens if ever I am pulled up.......hmmmmm.......I could always paint over the perspex light covers maybe......nah......will take the chance and see what happens
Rolly said
02:07 PM Nov 2, 2010
Small point with 'add-on' lights, if they are not electrically connected, they are not 'fitted'.
Recent challenge in court proved that one.
So, fit a removable section in the wiring like the roo shooters I've known have done.
The section of the ADRs that may fox you though is the bit about air bags, braking assists, stability devices etc.
Anything that interferes with their normal operations will require specific permits.
This for WA, in case.
Cruising Granny said
10:55 PM Nov 2, 2010
I passed a road train heading in the opp direction on my way to Charters. It had 6 spotties over the cab. That's a long way up in vehicle terms.
There were also about 6 at bull bar height, in addition to the headlights.
It would be like daylight within a 5 km of this bloke. I don't know what the UV reading would have been.
The lights weren't part of the structure of the cab. They were added.
I notice in the TV ad, the Qld rail shares are being "offered" at this point. No one can actually buy them yet. The lady here at the park office made some enquiries about buying these shares, but she couldn't buy any yet. I guess the folks just have to express their interest in buying the rail shares.
In this state the lines are owned by Qld Rail. I don't know who owns the actual trains which travel on them from mine to port etc or sugar mill to port, or the passenger trains. I think the govt still owns them at this point. Anna just announced 2 new fast train services between Brisbane and Cairns. It's all narrow guage.
In WA's Pilbara the infrastructure and the trains are owned by the individual mining companies. Twiggy Forrest had to build his own line and set up the trains to service his new mines.
He offered to lease AND maintain the existing line, but they wouldn't be in it. Double the traffic, double the maintenance perhaps. There's some serious tonnage on those tracks out there in the heat and floods.
If there was a breakdown 2 companies would suffer delays.
-- Edited by Cruising Granny on Tuesday 2nd of November 2010 10:56:19 PM
A couple of weeks ago I was pulled over by a motorcycle cop on the freeway into Adelaide, the sole purpose was to give me a ticket for the spotlights I had fitted to the roof baskets on my truck. This ticket cost me $227.....
I was quite put back by this at the time as i had enquired with Qld Transport/ RTA NSW/Vic Roads and SA Transpport about the legality of the fitment and all of these agencies advised that the fit woud be legal.
Now after some research into the mater I have come up with the facts - It is laid out in the Australian Design Rules (ADR13/00) and SA Road Traffic (Vehicle Standards) Rules 1999 under the Road traffic Act 1961 quite clearly that it is not permissable to have these driving/spot lights fitted any higher above the road surface than 1.3 - 1.4metres depending on the rule.
So for all those people planning on using this fit reconsider, it could be quite expensive, the cop involved was quite determined that the rule was being enforced vigorously accross all states and territories and that disregard they advice from all regestration and licensing agencies as they don't have a clue....
Funny thing, they do the rego checks, they do the roadside roadworthy inspections, they provide the traffic inspectors when the police are doing a blitz yet they don't know the laws......sounds rather hypocritical I know but it is true.
Hoo Roo Happy Days
grumps
G'day Grumpyone, geez mate couldnt you challenge this as you certainly have shown what your intent was and it was to meet the legal issues in each state regarding spotties...............and what a p....to issue the infringement, bad luck mate but hope you can resolve it.
cheers,
ozi2
Don't know about fitting them on top of the vehicle, however it must be OK as I have noticed many fitted in that manner.
Thommo.
It's a bit like Rod Holders on Bull Bars. Boy! I saw heaps on our recent trip to QLD.
Under the ADR's they to are illegal and so are loads of other stuff. We all go merrily on our way quite oblivious to the laws until we get booked. That's life I suppose.
ozjohn.
Bad luck with that fine Grumpy and thanks for the warning. We will make sure we don't fit any now thats for sure.
Hey Guys n Gals,
VHW buddy I would think that your high set lights being factory fit would make them legal as they are fitted as part of the vehicle build, if a copper were to issue a fine on them they would be a very very brave copper indeed....
In actual fact there is one set of rules Milo, The Australian Design Rules (ADR) and Australian Standards (ASO), the issue is that each state has had differing state based road and traffic acts and when these were aligned over the past few years each state concentrated on different areas and forgot to pass on information regarding small changes (eg..spotties) that affect everyone, they concentrated as a whole on the important daily things like roundabout ettiquette and common daily driving tasks that were more suited to the city folk, they in turn forgot about the minority country and off road drivers who are in fact the majority in the most cases.
For example in SA, Victoria & WA for instance they clamped down on the old style 5 bar bullbar, which is now illegal accross Australia due to pedestrian safety issues, the old style bar was designed to push the struck object down and under the vehicle and away from the body work to offer panel damage protection, whereas the new style is to push the object struck upwards and onto the bonnet to prevent entrapment & subsequent dragging beneath the vehicle.
This has come about because so many people just walk out in front of traffic these days instead of actually looking where they are going, all too busy listening to their ipods and talking on their mobiles.
The traffic laws have become standardised to a great extent accross Australia over the past few years and we will see this more and more as the years go by, it will get better but as with anything the government gets its hands on it will take decades to complete and even longer to be successful.
As for the differing state laws, it all is governed by Federal Law guidelines which all state laws must comply, much the same as the Local Government Association in Qld puts out sample laws for the councils to use as masters for their individual local laws, the Federal ruling body does the same for the states.
As a side to this rather long winded essay and a bit of trivia this is the general heierarchy of laws, it is quite simple in its basis;
Level 1: Federal/Commonwealth is the superior rule/law in ALL cases.
Level 2: State Laws are suboardinate to Federal/Commonwealth
Level 3: Local (Council/District/Shire) Laws are suboardinate to State
In all cases if the superior law is unsafe or likely to cause unsafe practices then the next Suboardinate law becomes superior for that section only.
If I have made any errors in this long winded diatribe please forgive my malevolence.....you can beat me later....3 whips overthe pee pee witha wet boot lace will suffice.
Hoo Roo Happy Days
Grumps
-- Edited by Cruising Granny on Tuesday 2nd of November 2010 10:56:19 PM