As a newbie I thought I would throw this one in for discussion by members. I have travelled now for over 10 years and have not had to use my radio in an emergency situation, but I have made a lot of friends that I have never met. Let's hear from other users, whether good or bad reports. Cheers


-- Edited by wilnomad on Wednesday 3rd of June 2009 07:57:21 PM

-- Edited by wilnomad on Wednesday 3rd of June 2009 07:57:45 PM

Welcome to the Nomads. We seem to be a friendly bunch comparing and sharing travel notes. I love my UHF. All those voices keep me company when I'm on the road. Apart from that I get lots of road information from other travellers, including the truckies who always keep each other informed about road conditions and the location of radars, as well as roadworks etc. Even the language can quite "entertaining". If I never have to use it for an emergency I'll be ever so thankful. In the meantime, I utilise the info. Chrisrs

I agree with Cruising Granny, UHF is handy to have, except in the cities and large towns, but HF is a different matter. If your going to stay on highways and major roads, a HF radio is a big expenditure for little or no return, but if you are travelling in remote areas, Tanami, Anne Beadell, Canning Stock route etc, it is an essential because you are going to be way out of UHF range.

Hi there Will ..

.. and welcome to the GN group. Like you, I am a long term user of HF .. and formerly a VKS 737 member too.  These days just content to be a member with the HF Radio Club and hopefully before too long, I'll be on the road indefinitely too .. just in the process of selling the house.

Quite a few members of the HF Radio Club are also members of the VKS as well, so we may have also swapped signals ourselves in the past ..

For me, Radio is a luxury and hobby, so its part of my comfort zone as well .. but I haven't been on much lately. I will be keen to get back into it in the near future ..

Enjoy the GN group !

cheers .. Jon

Thanks Granny and Mike for your input. I must define the difference between UHF and HF Radios,as they are like chalk and cheese. UHF is a short range unit and mainly used on highways etc or by groups travelling together wheras HF is long range (measured in thousands of k's ) and is commonly known by it's early name of 'Flying Doctor' radio. As Jon indicated there are various networks serving users around Oz. and I favour VKS-737 as they were the original service that took over from RFDS,however the HF radio club has a more active number of 'listeners' eager for a chat. Keep the comments coming. Cheers.

hi wilnomad had my hf for 10 odd years luckily never had to use for my self, but have used it twice to help other people out. came a cross a land cruiser on the anne beadell highway 3 years ago had a stuffed front bearing ,did not have a spare. we were about 400 km. from coober peedy. got on to vks. who organised the parts to be sent to coober peedy and another traveller had heard the radio call said he would bring the part out to us as he was going that way. we stayed with the broken down car (wife & i) as the female passenger was freaked out being out there by themselves with a broken vehicle. two days later part arrived 2 hours to put back together and we are on our way. on a bush track in N.T. came across a rolled car with 4 people in it 3 were ok one badly injured radioed for help took 5 hours for help to arrive ,luckily wife is a trauma nurse . we did not move the injured for fear of spinal injury. never did find out how the person got on. so yes an expensive item to have but would not be with out it. regards al

I've had a HF radio for the last twenty five years of bush travelling and have been fortunate enough to never have been in the situation where I have HAD to use it. But I would hate to be without it. It is very much my security blanket when I go off road. I like to listen in to the radio club scheds although I have never been a member.

I thought that HF propogation from ground level was not that good but from an aircraft it was superior, I am not a radio tech so I'm curious.

Hi Basil,
Not being technically qualified I can only speak from my own experience on the topic you have brought up. I have had a number of HF radios over the years and have never not been able to make contact with one of my network base stations (there are 10 of them around Oz). If you use the rule of thumb i.e. the frequency used should be greater as midday approaches and then lower on a sliding scale towards evening when the lower range of freqs. are more suitable it should be OK. If you do not get an answer first up you should continue to call as someone will respond on one of the frequencies used. As the VKS-737 base stations are all manned 24/7, either personally or remotely help will be available albeit that it may take some time, which if you are broken down in the ooloo you will have plenty of that. Also remember as Al pointed out other travellers are earwigging (like the old party phone lines) and are willing to help.(the unwritten law) Cheers.

I have been asked this question with regular abandon by people I meet along the road, and unfortunately the RFDS network is not once what it used to be, although having said that it still works, there are a lot of bases around.

For RFDS bases and freqs:
http://www.flyingdoctor.net/Communications---emergency-contact-numbers.html

There is also the VKS-737 network: http://www.vks737.on.net/

The decision to get a HF rig needs to be considered appropriately.
For example if you are going to just follow the Princess Hwy and major roads etc, then you are probably best suited getting a UHF CB and saving yourself a lot of money.

If you are intending to venture into unchartered areas, eg: very remote isolated areas, then yes an RFDS or HF rig is a good idea, be aware they will set you back around 2/3K, and you need to learn how to use them correctly, and also get yourself a outpost licence, which from memory I think is around 70 dollars.

Now the tricky bit, if you are going to get a HF rig the following should be considered:

- Definately get an auto-tune antenna setup, believe it makes life easy.
- Make sure the radio is programmed for BOTH RFDS and VKS-737.
- Have the sales people give you some training on its use.
If they cant tell you how to use it, go elsewhere and buy.

Definately dont get a radio with maritime freqs programmed into it, regardless of what the sales person may tell you it will be useless to you, as all maritime now uses DCS and there are very few maritime bases in Australia now, actually I think VIB in Brisbane is the only one, with most remoted to them, I know VIM Melbourne is no longer operating and it is remoted to Brisbane.

I would strongly recommend getting the Barrett HF rig, they are an excellent radio, and having had one before myself I can definately endorse them.

Re frequencies, night time freqs are traditionally lower then daytime.
For example: Day may be 5300KHz or 5.3MHz, whatever way you wish to say it, and the night freq may be 2350KHz.

Groundwave on low freqs can be anywhere from 100 to 300 Kms typically.
(I know this varies, its just an indication)

I would personally recommend that the purchase of an EPIRB be strongly considered as well, especially one with GPS in it. They cost around $600-700 dollars for the GPS enabled models, but are well worth it.

If you are right up the creek and in a life threatening situation, activate the EPIRB and your GPS position will be received by RCC Australia, and a SAR will be activated shortly thereafter. The advantage of GPS is obvious as it transmits your exact location to RCC, this cuts down on SARTIME and gets help to you faster.

DO NOT buy one of the older EPIRBS (121.5MHz and 243MHz) they are not monitored anymore by any RCC worldwide, the new models have 121.5 in them (homing beacon), and 406MHz (it may be 403 I cant remember right now) which transmits your emergency signal as well as GPS coordinates if you have a GPS enabled EPIRB.

UHF CB is fine whilst you are on major roads etc, and there is others to talk to, but out in the sticks its going to be as useless as a wet box of matches, as the range on UHF is very limited, and terrain knocks the hell out of it, amoungst other things. Typical simplex UHF range is around 5-15 Kms, depending on terrain etc and your antenna. For example a 1/4 wave will give you the highest angle of radiation, great in mountian type areas, but zero gain. A high gain antenna such as a 9db will give you increased range, but the signal will propagate more directly out from the antenna and a lesser angle of radiation.

I certainly wouldnt stake my life in the remote areas on a UHF CB. insanity.

If you're only going on that once in a life time trip on the Canning Stock Route, or one of Len Beadell's "highways", you can hire an RFDS radio for the duration of your trip. Tthey take lots of details when you organise the radio, so you're not out there all alone. They are available in Alice Springs, and from the Western end of the Canning, either Meekatharra or I believe, Mt. Magnet. If your a regular HF user then purchasing would be you best investment. Something is better than nothing when you're way out there. It's a big country with not a lot in the middle. I'm jealous. I just love the outback of the outback. Safe travels and have fun. Enjoy the big, bright stars, the sound of silence and the night and morning. It's beautiful out there. Cheers Chris

Power in HF is not everything when selecting your equipment either. Back in the early 70's (When I wore a green suit) I used to regulary work Holsworthy NSW to Butterworth in Malaya on voice on 5 watts output. Dont just use a whip antenna, carry a wire antenna, either centre fed or an end fed dipole. In my humble opinon, the current suit of HF radios are over gizmo'd and overpriced.
   

Nevered bothered with them since the eightys, I had done all the outback tracks Gunbarrel, Canning etc, by then I so sold it Agree with young Wombat, to many gizmos and whistles now, and another point to think about is the quantity of HF that is out there the odds of going for more than a coupla days without meeting another travveller is very scarce now , and with the intro of mobile phone coverage and the old UHF consider them another luxury I can do without

I wouldn't depend on mobile phone coverage any further from a major town on the coast, or Alice Springs than 15 - 20 kms. Please, please, please don't depend on it as your sole tool of contact if you're going off the really beaten tracks, out the back of beyond. Telstra makes all these claims about their 3G coverage, which is probably still the widest, but it's not as wide as they claim. Only around the east coast where the denser population is. Out west of Ceduna and north of Pt. Augusta and Mildure, make plans for something more reliable, and I don't mean another mobile phone service. They all lease small parts of Telstra or Optus infrastructure. If you're planning to go way out back please do your homework to ensure you return from your trip, safe and sound. Cheers Chris

Thanks for your support Chris. couldn't have said it better myself. Cheers

-- Edited by wilnomad on Monday 8th of June 2009 05:36:34 PM

-- Edited by wilnomad on Monday 8th of June 2009 09:27:27 PM

Rolly wrote:

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Cruising Granny wrote:

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Only around the east coast where the denser population is.

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Isn't that so very true

 

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And we here in the West are much less dense. I do mean population wise you know.

 

Gidday Again,

I'm not saying do not use HF, i'm saying be prudent with your hard earnt "dollars". Don't fall for the "Gizmo" attraction that most sets have these days. Self tuning whip antenna's are not always the best way to go either. As one of the previous posters said, take along one of the new EPIRB's as backup. This is an extremely good suggestion. Just make sure it is securely mounted and cannot be accidently activated.

If you buy and instal a HF radio learn to use it and your antenna's "correctly," before you need it. Propagation is more importan than brute power. If you travel in remote areas HF is the way. But don't treat HF as a god........the set is only as good as the person operating it.

Regards
A shriveled up old radio instructor.

Hehehe, I have to beg to differ on a few comments here...

EPIRBS = Yes probably a very good investment, more so then a HF, especially if you have the models that send your GPS coordinates as well. Most EPIRBS these days are in portable format, and cannot be easily activated, just ensure its stored correctly. Also don't buy a marine version, as they activate once immersed in water and can activate during heavy rain as one of my mates discovered.

Now there were a few comments made re antennas for HF.
This can be rather tricky, overall for mobile setups a vertical antenna is the best solution, eg: 9 foot whip with a auto-tuner. Wire antennas are NOT at all suitable for HF in a mobile situation, obviously you need to be stopped to use them, and secondly most (if not all) dipole antennas (eg: centre-fed / dipole) require they be mounted in a horizontal position  to be effective, thats how they were designed to work, and they also require to be mounted quite high from the ground, for example, on say 3.5MHz the antenna would need to be at least 40 meters in the air before it started to exhibit correct radiation patterns. The lower to the ground it is they more effect this will have on radiation, lobes and matching.

Propagation is not a real issue within Australia on HF, as most of the bands RFDS and VKS operate on provide effective groundwave comms for many thousands of K's, you should have no trouble in talking interstate on less then 4 megs most days, and around 5/7/8 megs during night time hours. 5 megs is commonly known as the tropo band, so you can expect to hear many many other stations here at night if you tune around.

Wire antennas are essentially a pain in the arse. I have dipoles for 80/40 meters and a vertical for 15/10 meters. And to be honest I cant setup 80/40 everywhere due to either limited space or no trees of suitable height.

A broadband antenna to cover all RFDS/VKS freqs is going to be around 30 meters in legnth, and would need to be at least 20 meters in the air to be effective. Any less performance would be very average.

Hi Stew .. well presented mate !

Jon    (currently in Berrima, NSW)

VK2/VKE/(ex VKS) operator