well I too put in place two 10,000 gallon water tanks along with all the computerised irrigation system and mains bypass system, hasnt rained since so they are "as new" and have not been used, I pay something like about half the ammount (about $2.70 or something like that for a kilolitre of water) but we are only allowed hand watering for a total of two wours per week spread over two days, odds and evens system so our lawns are gone, dustbowls for the birds I do however keep my fernery going as I simply refuse to let that die when the irrigators are still allowed to pump out of the murray

Fair enough Dave, but at what stage would you continue to water your ferns at a higher rate of water cost, ---where is your break even point We also use the same water cost to wash the dirt for sapphire which gives me a return on the cost, but if it jumps again it might become a hobby in that it costs to do it, does this apply to your ferns, would it be economical to bring water in, ----can you fill your tanks from an outside source and at what cost??, is it very much dearer?? or can you fill your tanks from your own tap at the 2.70 rate At 4.00 a kl it is pretty steep considereing that there is near zero maintenance on the pump

We live in a semi rural area and have 3 water tanks totalling about 70,000 litres.
Last time i had to have water brought in it cost $95 for 13500 ltrs. thats less than 1 cent per litre? had to do that about six times a year but luckily not since last October. Now only 4 living here, used to be 8.
Additional costs would be electricity to run the house pump and maintennace which has been to replace the black thingy box which gets burnt out occasionally during bad thunderstorms.
Guess a new pump will cost me about $1200 when it goes.
Also the inconvenience of losing power, which means for our city friends, no water and no toilet use.
But were not complaining, would never go back to a city or big town, 70klms from Sydney is still to close.

Forgot to mention that i can do lawns and gardens etc from the dam, although i'm not much of a gardiner.

JohnW





-- Edited by jandas fun on Friday 10th of April 2009 11:20:14 AM

well to me the fernery is my only absolute luxury, I will keep it at any cost, I water it "ilegally" now and I will continue to do so, while they allow big business to irigate then I will water my fernery, the person who comes to stop me will have to be of reasonable stature and well able to handle himself I am not allowed to fill my tanks from the town supply without a permit and that is impossible to get because we dont have fish in them what annoys me is the cost that water is being supplied to irrigators, they buy at $8 per gigalitre, it costs us a hell of a lot more than that, we (taxpayers) are paying $25 per gigalitre to buy out the water rights of stations upstream, multi millions of taxpayers dollars are being wasted down at clare in the vineyards east of town a major winery has built two huge dams, absolutely massive compared to a farm dam, they have filled them with murray water and keep them full all the time, it takes 3 litres of water to make one litre of wine, absolutely crazy it is the same with your "bottled water" 3 litres to make one, gotta stop and think people we dont have that ammount of water to waste on buying bottled water, the city is of course the biggest consumer of these things, the city produces nothing but then uses up all resources to keep itself going, city folk have got to start making themselves more independent of "outside" water, reduce, reuse and recycle people, stop wasting it in your spas and pools I can understand the government taxing the larger dams but what I cant understand is why they are allowing overseas corporations to come in and buy a rundown station, then interfere with a natural watercourse such as the murray and basically divert all the water on to that property, then sell off the water right allocation without producing a damn thing except a huge profit which they take back overseas the holding power of these massive inland basins is huge and far overallocated, cubby station alone takes something like a 1/4 of all water that flows anywhere near it and that is only one of many, melbourne will shortly be syphoning off non existant water from the dead murray while millions of sydharbs flow out to see each year in "rainfall runoff" from that useless city alone, it is simply stupidity it is crazy to think that we can sell off a mythical number of gigalitres or "sydharbs" as they are called, a "sydharb" is the equivelent of the ammount of water that sits in sydney harbour at high tide at any given time, cubby is designed to accept and hold two sydharbs, the numbers are astronomical and mindblowing to even try and follow the stations or they should be called cotton farms are all owned by either chinese or japanese countrys, the finished product is of no financial benefit to australia or australian people we should just simply "kick" these bludgers off the property and return the water to the murray also while I'm on the soapbox another thing that drives me absolutely batty is the thought of "water futures" one purchases an allocation allotment of water, hangs onto it and then sells it to another bidder at a "profit" what wanker came up with that and what idiot minister is allowing it to continue, this can only make the price and scarcity of water go one way and that is up the profit takers are buying the water rights of useless stations up and down the murrays tributarys just for the sole purpose of that stations water allocations, they then place all water allocations together and sell it off at a huge profit, that profit then goes overseas and we are left with NO WATER and no money or income, talk about "selling the farm" what idiot minister is allowing this to happen and why isnt PENNY bloody WONG stopping it this country like every other country is driven by the almighty dollar and we will die by it "capitilism" does not work, all it does is to take the money from the poor and give to the global megarich by whatever means is possible even water our only life dependent resource anyway I forgot the original question Mike, sorry, I get pretty angry about pollies and water rights, so I will return the beaten up old battered soapbox to the corner ready for the next assailant, and go and have a cuppa. and a bex!!! GRRRRRR!!!!

The Bex Dave,The Bex.100% with you Mate.Cheers.Ibbo.

The Murray is supposed to be managed by the River Murray Commission, a three-way management body between the 3 states which are supposed to SHARE the water in the Murray. Being on the down side of the river, SA misses out in all sorts of ways. The major water supply pipelines SA has designed to supply the state, the available irrigation for blocks and farms along the river, the fishing industry, and the lakes at the mouth. No water there, and the river was 1.5 metres below sea level at Murray Bridge more than 12 months ago. All because the greedy cotton and rice farmers have diverted water from the catchment upstream in NSW, and the blockies in Vic. While we live in this beautiful country, this sort of thing, initiated by the international interloping corporations, give me a bad taste in my mouth, and leaves the river to be a stinking swamp downstream. God knows what the salt levels are. Taxing dams is the worst case of beauracracy gone mad. I guess the govt feels if they can't have the water no one can, free of charge. How do they tax a dam the property owner has built for his own use? Next they'll be charging tax on rainwater tanks because the water can't get into storm water drains to get to the rivers to get to the catchment dams. Private dam and tank owners should be rewarded for their initiative and wisdom, not penalised, but those damming the Murray should be severely punished and fined huge amounts to top up the country's revenue, or invested back into the management of the River Murray system. Water has become such a pressured commodity that the govt feels they tax it to discourage people from using it, especially if you have to cart it for private use. What is this country coming too? The rich continue to make millions, while the little guy continues to support that lifestyle through these impositions. I'll get off my soap box now. Cheers Chris

Water,well we live in an area that has no water supply unless it comes from up above.Tank water is our go.We have no shortage of water as long as the rain pays us a visit.We have four tanks that give us approx.anormal amount of water for two people.We do have a sullage tank where waste from the house goes into.Now would you believe that the stupid,silly,mental case that did the original plumbing for the tanks put the overflow pipe from the tanks into the sullage tank.So if the tanks overflow it costs us an arm an a leg.We spend about $200 every 12 weeks to have the sullage pumped out.I guess that we are lucky that we pay for waste water compared with the poor buggers who would be glad of it.Cheers.Ibbo.

It all seems a little one sided when you consider a farmer now pays a dam levy for the very dam he put in because the Wong Penny in Canberra has decreed he's catching water that would have gone to the states reservoirs. Why is it that the city dweller is now paid good sized subsidy to put in tanks to harvest the very same water that falls free of charge from the heavens. In most cases the city dweller is only water lawns and garden beds , nothing that could be classed as essential to life.

Mike and Judy, have a good point I did not know of the dam levy, but should, I would like some more info there M&J What surprises me the most is, I have always been water concious. I have set my place up, based around my water consumption. I have a bore, but use it little. Installed 3 water tanks, approx 40k litres when full. I know my water needs, and use. I have extensive gardens, and a vegie patch. When I get visitors from the city, i shake my head firstly, then go about explaining the situation. If it yellow, let it mellow, if its brown, flush it down. Wash dishes when there is a sink full, wash clothes when there is a machine full. Taps get turned on for a need, and off straight after. I think those in the bush have done this forever, but the city people just look blankly at you. A power failure here means, no water here. Another blank look. The water that falls in a city, goes down the drain, and out to sea. How much of that could be saved and used. But no, tax the rural areas, who harvest it, because doing so, may hinder the city. City people need to know where their food comes from, and its not coles or woolies.

Quite a few years ago here in the Shoalhaven we were put onto water restrictions, which didn't bother me one little bit having grown up in the country with tanks.

What was the biggest bug bear was that Sydney was taking water from our reservoirs for their own use (it was pumped into Warragamba dam) and they had no water restrictions of any kind.

We may not be "country" as the term implies living on the coast but I think the majority of us down here do conserve water where and when we can and a good many of us have a tank of some shape and size.

There was such an outcry that even though they still take our water, they are usually on restrictions in Sydney before we are.

We are very fortunate down here that we have a good rain fall and even as I type this it is raining.......not heavily but enough to dampen the vegie patch.

It seems to me the politicians and decision makers make all these decisions, and are not affected by the decisions they make. Perhaps we should start The Grey Nomad Party, pool all our wisdom and experience, and sort out the wankers who are now politicians and decision makers. How come we know all these things, and have solutions to problems, but those we "depend" on to do these things can't be depended on. I'll sleep on it. Cheers Chris

If Uncle Kev wanted a project to focus building a debt on why not piping water from the monsoon areas of OZ . Bloody fast internet it will be obsolete before it starts. Lets hope it's not designed by the same wanker who designed digital television transmitters . They will borrow billions from Uncle Kevs O/S mates getting it up and partially running using only O/S resource companies with a $2 Australian shop front . Once complete then the providers will charge the OZ taxpayers an arm and a leg to access it. Net gain to Australia = Nil . If this keeps up there will be more OZ dollars in China than Yen

yep I would support the pipeline 100% by any party that was game enough to try and implement it, after the appropriate charges by the state in charge of that water I really feel we need a large infrastructure construction project on this magnitude to kickstart the economy and get some dole bludgers off their proverbial I have installed every water saving device known to me (and being an ex builder I know most of them) I have consistently cut my water usage every year for in excess of 25 years whilst we have been living here (records of accounts to prove it) and yet my account has consistently increased we shoot down to Adelaide just as a break to see our daughter (well niece actually but we sort of "knicked her" she's always called me "dad" and always came to me with her problems and troubles and cuddles) she now has a lovely little girl of her own, now what was I saying OH YEAH!!! we shoot down to Adelaide quite often and I am shocked and appalled at the waste of our most precious resource most houses have either a pool or a spa or both and most c/parks have spas in their cabins which are all going full tilt along with lush green lawns thanks to sprinklers last time we were down there it was hissing down with rain and yet the sprinklers in the botanic gardens were going full tilt, the place was flooded the city folk (Adelaide, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth) have no idea of water conservation, although Perth is not as bad as the rest they have some pretty good conservation ideas in place so probably shouldn't include Perth in there to be honest I think it will take a new kind of "water meter" to beat the problem, this new meter, which I have sent a copy of the plans to Carlene maywald, is simple in its design and effective in its nature it simply "limits" the amount of water that one may use in a 24 hour period, large family reasonable amount, small family less amount and so on, once that daily quota has been reached the water will slow to a dribble and then shut down until the next 24 hour period use it all in one go and you go without, I grew up with rainwater tanks and wood fired chip heaters and outside drop loos complete with resident redback, and once a month pumping out the septic onto the orange trees down the back when we put the plumbing in, these people have no idea what it is to go without and I think it is up to someone with gumption to show them that what they are doing is WRONG!!! we cannot continue to overuse our resources like this the trouble is that when we conserve water then the idiot government, and it doesn't matter which one because they are all the same, go and sell more water to irrigate cotton and rice bugger!!!!, me soapbox has got a piece coming off the side, using it too much lately, oh well out to the shed for repairs, BUT THIS TIME I WILL MAKE IT BIGGER, BETTER AND FAR STRONGER!!! and it will have an inbuilt step, nearly fell off it once, hell could have broke me hip then they would have put me down!! might also have to look at a handrail for it!! IT WILL BE BACK!!!!

Agreed, Dave.

Metrocentricism(©2008Rolly;) is killing the country.
It always was and probably always will be.
The waste of time, effort and resources that goes into city living is quite incredible.
The silly sods think that the world revolves around them and that they are actually productive in their activities.
There are so many inherent inefficiencies in urban systems that they have to continually draw on rural assets to compensate for their shortcomings.
'Twas ever thus.

Rolly wrote:

---

Agreed, Dave.

Metrocentricism(©2008Rolly;) is killing the country.
It always was and probably always will be.
The waste of time, effort and resources that goes into city living is quite incredible.
The silly sods think that the world revolves around them and that they are actually productive in their activities.
There are so many inherent inefficiencies in urban systems that they have to continually draw on rural assets to compensate for their shortcomings.
'Twas ever thus.

---

Metrocentricism is never going to work. They tried it in Victorian England with row upon row of terrace houses with no bathroom and an outside dunny.

Water is a precious resource, remember the movie with Michael Caine? Yet again I ask why are the solutions to these problems obvious to us on this forum and the elected representatives who have the power to do something about it can't seem to find a solution.

 

Basil Faulty wrote:

---

....... Yet again I ask why are the solutions to these problems obvious to us on this forum and the elected representatives who have the power to do something about it can't seem to find a solution.

---

I think you know the answer to that, Basil:   The Electors; the majority of whom live in the fairyland that is suburbia and have little or no concept of reality.

Pollies can only do what they hope will get them re-elected and the intelligent expenditure of community resources, at the expense of someone's elaborate 'home theatre' in an oversized and inefficient MacMansion, is electoral suicide.

If you want better and more efficient public services you must be prepared to become personally involved in everyday overseeing of their effectiveness and accept that it requires your tax payments to fund them.

Australia has always had an underlying cardiac problem; the aorta.
As in "Aorta do summat about that."  "Aorta clean up the place." "Aorta pay me more."

Et-plurry-cetra.

But, the very nature of the egocentric human animal is not about to change just because we think it should.

As more free-thinking individuals we can only hope that our personal examples and input into the general welfare of our society will rub off onto a few others and induce them, in turn, to take a more holistic perspective on life.

Dave's tale of the broken heirloom crib is such an example.

 

-- Edited by Rolly on Saturday 11th of April 2009 03:20:35 PM

Rolly wrote:

---

 

Basil Faulty wrote:

---

....... Yet again I ask why are the solutions to these problems obvious to us on this forum and the elected representatives who have the power to do something about it can't seem to find a solution.

---

I think you know the answer to that, Basil:   The Electors; the majority of whom live in the fairyland that is suburbia and have little or no concept of reality.

Pollies can only do what they hope will get them re-elected and the intelligent expenditure of community resources, at the expense of someone's elaborate 'home theatre' in an oversized and inefficient MacMansion, is electoral suicide.

If you want better and more efficient public services you must be prepared to become personally involved in everyday overseeing of their effectiveness and accept that it requires your tax payments to fund them.

Australia has always had an underlying cardiac problem; the aorta.
As in "Aorta do summat about that."  "Aorta clean up the place." "Aorta pay me more."

Et-plurry-cetra.

But, the very nature of the egocentric human animal is not about to change just because we think it should.

As more free-thinking individuals we can only hope that our personal examples and input into the general welfare of our society will rub off onto a few others and induce them, in turn, to take a more holistic perspective on life.

Dave's tale of the broken heirloom crib is such an example.

 

-- Edited by Rolly on Saturday 11th of April 2009 03:20:35 PM

 

---

And there again is the round Tuit as in one day I'll get 'round tuit.

 

When I was living in the Kimberleys, and things were so dry down south, I asked someone who knew about these things why they don't construct a pipeline south to Perth and east to Sydney or somewhere. I was told, by the time the pipeline was full in both directions, Lake Argyle would be empty, and it would take more water than in the lake to continue the supply. It's a long way in any direction from that part of the country. One bloke has proposed several ways of taking water to Perth from Lake Argyle or the Fitzroy River. While his motives seem inspirational, there's a catch. He wants to grow GM cotton on Nita Downs, south of Broome, and he's not allowed to take ground water for his crop. He wanted to dam the Fitzroy at Diamond Gorge. The world stopped him with their protests. He then proposed a channel or pipeline, but he doesn't seem to be able to do it by himself, and no one is supporting him , thank goodness. All the pipelines or channels south would just happen to pass through Nita. So far he's been extremely unsuccessful in attracting support and cash for his selfish plans. It takes all kinds, but we need less of his kind, and more of the genuinely kind kind.

I see Florida has now invested in our water buying up some $20,000,000.00 of it through a company registered in the cayman islands (summit) a global company that will no doubt push the cost of water sky high and we will no longer be able to grow our tucker our pollies meantime are showing the world how they went wrong (the world, not us) in the global financial crisis and all the while we have no bloody water what I might do is to grab a couple of buckets and start hauling water down from the eastern states and selling it at a huge profit, gotta be a profit cos it's costing me nothing to go and get it???????