How about we sort this out by declaring if you have experience in using WDH's on not ! .......yes I do use a WDH and couldn't give a rats ar$e about ball weight after the van is hooked up, because all my weight KPI's are within the limits for my Ranger.
Gundog, probably a good way to look at it for peace of mind..I like that, just know your weights are right and go.
You sound like a truckie.
Now, I hope I am not called a troll by the guy on here and after my last post I did follow advice and do a little more research with Hayman Reece.
Anyone interested needs to have a look at the example of weights by HAYMAN R.
We need to do a little arithmetic here so grab your calculators.
The picture by HR gives the weights and the heights with the separate car and caravan sitting on a weigh bridge.
The next row show the car and caravan connected and the weights from HR clearly showing the same GCM as was indicated on the top row if you care to do the additions.
The third row shows the weights once again, but this time with the WDH connected.
If once again you do the additions you will again note that the total of the new weights with the WDH connected is the same as the GCM as weighed in the first row.
This chart clearly shows no weight being recognised on the tow ball as the weight in both cases has been transferred to the other points on the car and caravan while on the weighbridge.
Now this is what HR told me when I rang them the other day but as I said....their claim of their Hitch not removing any tow ball weight is so that the consumer fully understands that when he is weighed correctly by a compliance officer a tow ball weight will be recorded because the car and van will be weighed separately and unhitched.
Someone else above correctly said that when a WDH is fitted, the vehicle and van chassis basically become one due to the simple physics of the interaction of the torsion bars between the two.
Here is the document from Hayman Reece.
Wow, now this topic has finally become a resource on this forum and not just another 7 pages of misinformation as has happened with so many other topics.
Well done Stu and Alan and old bloke and others who just did not just stand by and let this topic go down the path of many other topics.
Stu, you are to be commended to continue on with your research with HR even when your first contribution was ridiculed. I think that the silent majority could see the reason for HR saying the ball weight remained because most could imagine that when a consumer was asked to disconnect his van to record the tow ball weight and this consumer then stands there and argues that HR said the use of their hitch removes extra tow ball weight. HR would not want to be involved.
Anyway THE WINNER IS
The silent majority of members on the forum who now have the true facts as opposed to misguided and confusing thoughts of a few
Regards
Rob
Brenda and Alan said
09:10 AM Mar 5, 2021
Oldbloke the laws of gravity don't say anything about tow ball weight and I think now that we have finally proved that a WDH does. Secondly making the rig more rigid is not a good thing as it induces oversteer which on say down hill cornering can lead to jack-knifing.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 5th of March 2021 09:11:46 AM
yobarr said
09:28 AM Mar 5, 2021
For those with no apparent understanding of how a WDH works,here are copies taken directly from the HR website,which clearly explain that a WDH does NOT change towball weight. Please understand that this information is the 'real deal',for those among us who want to learn,and it is not the dumbed-down version that seems designed to help those who cannot understand that a towball puts weight ONTO the car's rear axle,and a WDH takes that weight OFF the car's rear axle before it DISTRIBUTES that weight to the car,s front axle,and the caravan's axle group.No matter how some choose to duck and weave,and come up with all sorts of theories,these are the simple facts. Again,in an effort to help those in denial,I strongly suggest that you access a video by John Cadogan...just Google "John Cadogan WDH",or similar,and watch his video.If,after viewing that video,you still do not understand the workings of a WDH,there is little hope for you.Sorry
P.S The video is titled "Weight distribution and load levelling hitches for heavy towing..." and is designed to help (Quote) "...an uninformed Dick...", among others,to understand the REAL actions of a WDH.
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 5th of March 2021 09:50:13 AM
It has been explained to you on several occasions why HR documents say that TBW figures remain the same but you appear to be not reading them.
Please read the post from Clarky1 with the explanation on TBWs.
You have made no attempt to refute the fact that once the WDH is tensioned or connected then the torsion action makes both the chassis of the car and the van become one and the weight is distributed along that one plane.
Please look at the post that Clarky1 put up, DIRECTLY FROM HR.
Please dont keep this up until this topic is locked or removed as it has finally become a quality resource for all on the forum.
Just let it go mate....you will have a better day.
Regards
Rob
Gundog said
10:14 AM Mar 5, 2021
bentaxlebabe wrote:
Yobarr
It has been explained to you on several occasions why HR documents say that TBW figures remain the same but you appear to be not reading them. Please read the post from Clarky1 with the explanation on TBWs.
You have made no attempt to refute the fact that once the WDH is tensioned or connected then the torsion action makes both the chassis of the car and the van become one and the weight is distributed along that one plane.
Please look at the post that Clarky1 put up, DIRECTLY FROM HR.
Please dont keep this up until this topic is locked or removed as it has finally become a quality resource for all on the forum.
Just let it go mate....you will have a better day.
Regards
Rob
Rob why do you continue with this drival, please show me how you can prove that the weight come off the TBW because to the best of my knowelege you cannot weigh the towball when its connected to the vehicle.
Remember these charts provided by HR do not show additional information needed to support your and others arguements, you dont know the plated ATM and GTM limits of the van used, therefore they are only examples for demostration purposes.
montie said
10:16 AM Mar 5, 2021
It seems we have moved from "WDH changes ball weight" to "HR says ball weight does not change"
We have now moved to HR being involved in some sort of conspiracy by saying ball weight does not change when in fact they don't really mean that at all.
Guys you are running out of steam....give it a rest.
The fitment of a WDH does not change ball weight or measured combination weight (except by the weight of the equipment itself) end of story.
All this waffle about a weight that cannot be measured indicates to me that some people have too much time on their hands or are simply "baiting".
Rob Driver said
10:36 AM Mar 5, 2021
Gundog wrote:
bentaxlebabe wrote:
Yobarr
It has been explained to you on several occasions why HR documents say that TBW figures remain the same but you appear to be not reading them. Please read the post from Clarky1 with the explanation on TBWs.
You have made no attempt to refute the fact that once the WDH is tensioned or connected then the torsion action makes both the chassis of the car and the van become one and the weight is distributed along that one plane.
Please look at the post that Clarky1 put up, DIRECTLY FROM HR.
Please dont keep this up until this topic is locked or removed as it has finally become a quality resource for all on the forum.
Just let it go mate....you will have a better day.
Regards
Rob
Rob why do you continue with this drival, please show me how you can prove that the weight come off the TBW because to the best of my knowelege you cannot weigh the towball when its connected to the vehicle.
Remember these charts provided by HR do not show additional information needed to support your and others arguements, you dont know the plated ATM and GTM limits of the van used, therefore they are only examples for demostration purposes.
Hi Gundog,
Both a video and the chart from HR within this topic indicate that the combined weight of the vehicle and van when sitting on a weigh bridge is equal to the GCM. If you care to do the additions of each weight those combined weights add up to the GCM.
GTM and ATM plated weights arent necessary because we arent arguing wether the combination is legal, we are only stating and proving the fact that once a WDH is connected the weight is proportionately distributed along one plane and the measured weights explain that this TBW is transferred to both van and car.
This is not just someone saying this, this is proved on a weigh bridge.
Gundog the drivel you are reading is not from me. Read back how an Authorised Vic Roads inspector and his methods would not stand up in court. This is just one quotation that stood out with me.
Maybe that is worse than his normal drivel as his comments are not only litigeous but are dangerous to the ones who take his word as accurate information.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 5th of March 2021 10:39:51 AM
Gundog said
10:44 AM Mar 5, 2021
bentaxlebabe wrote:
Gundog wrote:
bentaxlebabe wrote:
Yobarr
It has been explained to you on several occasions why HR documents say that TBW figures remain the same but you appear to be not reading them. Please read the post from Clarky1 with the explanation on TBWs.
You have made no attempt to refute the fact that once the WDH is tensioned or connected then the torsion action makes both the chassis of the car and the van become one and the weight is distributed along that one plane.
Please look at the post that Clarky1 put up, DIRECTLY FROM HR.
Please dont keep this up until this topic is locked or removed as it has finally become a quality resource for all on the forum.
Just let it go mate....you will have a better day.
Regards
Rob
Rob why do you continue with this drival, please show me how you can prove that the weight come off the TBW because to the best of my knowelege you cannot weigh the towball when its connected to the vehicle.
Remember these charts provided by HR do not show additional information needed to support your and others arguements, you dont know the plated ATM and GTM limits of the van used, therefore they are only examples for demostration purposes.
Hi Gundog,
Both a video and the chart from HR within this topic indicate that the combined weight of the vehicle and van when sitting on a weigh bridge is equal to the GCM. If you care to do the additions of each weight those combined weights add up to the GCM.
GTM and ATM plated weights arent necessary because we arent arguing wether the combination is legal, we are only stating and proving the fact that once a WDH is connected the weight is proportionately distributed along one plane and the measured weights explain that this TBW is transferred to both van and car.
This is not just someone saying this, this is proved on a weigh bridge.
Gundog the drivel you are reading is not from me. Read back how an Authorised Vic Roads inspector and his methods would not stand up in court. This is just one quotation that stood out with me.
Maybe that is worse than his normal drivel as his comments are not only litigeous but are dangerous to the ones who take his word as accurate information.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 5th of March 2021 10:39:51 AM
Answer the question how do you weigh towball weight when it connected to the tow vehicle?
Rob Driver said
10:47 AM Mar 5, 2021
montie wrote:
It seems we have moved from "WDH changes ball weight" to "HR says ball weight does not change"
We have now moved to HR being involved in some sort of conspiracy by saying ball weight does not change when in fact they don't really mean that at all.
Guys you are running out of steam....give it a rest.
The fitment of a WDH does not change ball weight or measured combination weight (except by the weight of the equipment itself) end of story.
All this waffle about a weight that cannot be measured indicates to me that some people have too much time on their hands or are simply "baiting".
Montie,
We are surprised you are back, we thought you made your last comments a page back.
Anyway,
It is confusing when one document supports your argument, be it without proper clarification and yet another does not support your view but the proof is on the weigh bridge scales.
You can dismiss the explanation and the proven theory that is your choice.
Regards
Rob
montie said
11:23 AM Mar 5, 2021
bentaxlebabe wrote:
montie wrote:
It seems we have moved from "WDH changes ball weight" to "HR says ball weight does not change"
We have now moved to HR being involved in some sort of conspiracy by saying ball weight does not change when in fact they don't really mean that at all.
Guys you are running out of steam....give it a rest.
The fitment of a WDH does not change ball weight or measured combination weight (except by the weight of the equipment itself) end of story.
All this waffle about a weight that cannot be measured indicates to me that some people have too much time on their hands or are simply "baiting".
Montie,
We are surprised you are back, we thought you made your last comments a page back.
Anyway,
It is confusing when one document supports your argument, be it without proper clarification and yet another does not support your view but the proof is on the weigh bridge scales.
You can dismiss the explanation and the proven theory that is your choice.
Regards
Rob
Changed my mind. Who is "we"?
"When using a Weight Distribution System, the ball weight remains the same, however, the load is evenly distributed across all of the axles. This restores the tow vehicle to its correct operating balance, carrying the caravan rather than dragging the load."
There is nothing confusing about that statement from HR and as another poster has pointed out unless you weigh the ball how do you intend to disprove it?
That statement was made by the designer and manufacturer of the product so why do you need further clarification?
As I stated earlier a lot of waffle about nothing.
-- Edited by montie on Friday 5th of March 2021 11:27:24 AM
And again on the HR web site. L O L..
Found the above in about 60 seconds. Lol
This is out of their brochure. Might muddy the water a bit. But seems to support the above screen shots.
Wow, now this topic has finally become a resource on this forum and not just another 7 pages of misinformation as has happened with so many other topics.
Well done Stu and Alan and old bloke and others who just did not just stand by and let this topic go down the path of many other topics.
Stu, you are to be commended to continue on with your research with HR even when your first contribution was ridiculed. I think that the silent majority could see the reason for HR saying the ball weight remained because most could imagine that when a consumer was asked to disconnect his van to record the tow ball weight and this consumer then stands there and argues that HR said the use of their hitch removes extra tow ball weight. HR would not want to be involved.
Anyway THE WINNER IS
The silent majority of members on the forum who now have the true facts as opposed to misguided and confusing thoughts of a few
Regards
Rob
Oldbloke the laws of gravity don't say anything about tow ball weight and I think now that we have finally proved that a WDH does. Secondly making the rig more rigid is not a good thing as it induces oversteer which on say down hill cornering can lead to jack-knifing.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Friday 5th of March 2021 09:11:46 AM
For those with no apparent understanding of how a WDH works,here are copies taken directly from the HR website,which clearly explain that a WDH does NOT change towball weight. Please understand that this information is the 'real deal',for those among us who want to learn,and it is not the dumbed-down version that seems designed to help those who cannot understand that a towball puts weight ONTO the car's rear axle,and a WDH takes that weight OFF the car's rear axle before it DISTRIBUTES that weight to the car,s front axle,and the caravan's axle group.No matter how some choose to duck and weave,and come up with all sorts of theories,these are the simple facts. Again,in an effort to help those in denial,I strongly suggest that you access a video by John Cadogan...just Google "John Cadogan WDH",or similar,and watch his video.If,after viewing that video,you still do not understand the workings of a WDH,there is little hope for you.Sorry
P.S The video is titled "Weight distribution and load levelling hitches for heavy towing..." and is designed to help (Quote) "...an uninformed Dick...", among others,to understand the REAL actions of a WDH.
-- Edited by yobarr on Friday 5th of March 2021 09:50:13 AM
It has been explained to you on several occasions why HR documents say that TBW figures remain the same but you appear to be not reading them.
Please read the post from Clarky1 with the explanation on TBWs.
You have made no attempt to refute the fact that once the WDH is tensioned or connected then the torsion action makes both the chassis of the car and the van become one and the weight is distributed along that one plane.
Please look at the post that Clarky1 put up, DIRECTLY FROM HR.
Please dont keep this up until this topic is locked or removed as it has finally become a quality resource for all on the forum.
Just let it go mate....you will have a better day.
Regards
Rob
Rob why do you continue with this drival, please show me how you can prove that the weight come off the TBW because to the best of my knowelege you cannot weigh the towball when its connected to the vehicle.
Remember these charts provided by HR do not show additional information needed to support your and others arguements, you dont know the plated ATM and GTM limits of the van used, therefore they are only examples for demostration purposes.
We have now moved to HR being involved in some sort of conspiracy by saying ball weight does not change when in fact they don't really mean that at all.
Guys you are running out of steam....give it a rest.
The fitment of a WDH does not change ball weight or measured combination weight (except by the weight of the equipment itself) end of story.
All this waffle about a weight that cannot be measured indicates to me that some people have too much time on their hands or are simply "baiting".
Hi Gundog,
Both a video and the chart from HR within this topic indicate that the combined weight of the vehicle and van when sitting on a weigh bridge is equal to the GCM. If you care to do the additions of each weight those combined weights add up to the GCM.
GTM and ATM plated weights arent necessary because we arent arguing wether the combination is legal, we are only stating and proving the fact that once a WDH is connected the weight is proportionately distributed along one plane and the measured weights explain that this TBW is transferred to both van and car.
This is not just someone saying this, this is proved on a weigh bridge.
Gundog the drivel you are reading is not from me. Read back how an Authorised Vic Roads inspector and his methods would not stand up in court. This is just one quotation that stood out with me.
Maybe that is worse than his normal drivel as his comments are not only litigeous but are dangerous to the ones who take his word as accurate information.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 5th of March 2021 10:39:51 AM
Answer the question how do you weigh towball weight when it connected to the tow vehicle?
Montie,
We are surprised you are back, we thought you made your last comments a page back.
Anyway,
It is confusing when one document supports your argument, be it without proper clarification and yet another does not support your view but the proof is on the weigh bridge scales.
You can dismiss the explanation and the proven theory that is your choice.
Regards
Rob
Changed my mind. Who is "we"?
"When using a Weight Distribution System, the ball weight remains the same, however, the load is evenly distributed across all of the axles. This restores the tow vehicle to its correct operating balance, carrying the caravan rather than dragging the load."
There is nothing confusing about that statement from HR and as another poster has pointed out unless you weigh the ball how do you intend to disprove it?
That statement was made by the designer and manufacturer of the product so why do you need further clarification?
As I stated earlier a lot of waffle about nothing.
-- Edited by montie on Friday 5th of March 2021 11:27:24 AM