You can troll the internet to try to prove your point, but nobody is disputing what a WHD does. What is disputed is your claim that the car gets lighter and the van heavier when a WDH is tensioned
So far you still have not chosen your preference as to whether it is the force of gravity or the relevant masses the change to accommodate your belief.
Alan
PS Until you understand some very basic physics concepts you will forever remain in the dark .
Alan
Great to hear from you again, Alan, as I was concerned that you may have discovered the error of your ways, and gone to ground.
Perhaps you should now take the time to view, in its entirity, the video posted by Tony (Eaglemax) which confirms all the facts that I have been tirelessly presenting for the last 5 years. If you still can't accept the truth then there is little more that I can do to help you.
Please note that I cannot be bothered "Trolling the internet" to prove a point, as I live by the words of Desiderata:- "Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others, even to the dull and ignorant. They too have their story."
Everybody is entitled to an opinion, no matter how misguided they may be. Tony's video should open your eyes. Cheers
yobarr said
08:10 PM Oct 23, 2023
BasilB wrote:
hi yobarr, now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
Sorry Bas, I spent a long time compiling a detailed response, but promptly deleted it. However, like Tony, I have tired of presenting information to those who appear to not be interested in actually learning, preferring to "Rock the Boat".
Over the last 5 years I have many times explained the procedure to show what effect a WDH has when it is tensioned, so you might like to use the "Search" facility in search of your answer. Good luck. Cheers
BasilB said
08:25 PM Oct 23, 2023
hi yobarr, if you don't know just say so,
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
yobarr said
08:35 PM Oct 23, 2023
Gundog wrote:
Again in my case I need to measure the front and rear axle heights before hooking up, upon hooking up measuring again the T&R axle heights and the height of the chassis at the F&R of the van. As I'm using a WDH I will engage the bars to lift the rear of the ute to get the front axle back to its pre-measured height.
Hmmm. This makes no sense, to me anyway. Would this not require 100% weight return, at least, to the car's front axle? Given that the towball weight increases the total weight of the car, and is leveraged behind the rear axle, in order to get the front back to its original height you'd have to wind the WDH right up. Interesting assertion. Better to buy a better car, me thinks. Cheers
yobarr said
08:37 PM Oct 23, 2023
BasilB wrote:
hi yobarr, if you don't know just say so,
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
Not interested Bas, and like Tony, I'm not taking the bait. Have a lovely evening.
BasilB said
08:48 PM Oct 23, 2023
hi yobarr, Tony found the elephant in the room, we should thank him.
now if you don't know just say so, it's only a forum.
where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
yobarr said
08:50 PM Oct 23, 2023
BasilB wrote:
hi yobarr, Tony found the elephant in the room, we should thank him.
now if you don't know just say so, it's only a forum.
where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
Much research has shown that it came from a Skyhook. Happy now?
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 23rd of October 2023 08:50:45 PM
BasilB said
08:54 PM Oct 23, 2023
see? that didn't hurt much
cheers
Eaglemax said
12:28 AM Oct 24, 2023
When you attached a WDH to a drawbar and tension it, you lift the rear of the towcar and lower the front of the towcar. But you also add some weight to the drawbar where the WDH chains attach. That tension adds the 30kg or so to the van wheels as residual from the action of the WDH.
This is clearly explained in the video. Therefore if all GCM weights are accounted for the TBW is unchanged.
Gundog- WDH are appropriate in some situations however I personally would seek an alternative unless the manufacturer demands it of their vehicle which is another topic.
Tony
Are We Lost said
12:44 AM Oct 24, 2023
yobarr wrote:Maaaaate! 10/10. That video should be compulsory viewing, with an exam to follow, for ALL caravanners,
The video confirms everything that I have persisted in posting over the years in my efforts to help people, d
So does that include where he suggests a Jeep can tow 3500kg? It just needs attention to axle loads and you may run out of payload. I wonder what words you would use if a forum member on here proposed to tow 3500kg with a Jeep.
This video is from a self confessed non expert on WDH. He said he has never driven with one. Yet when he ignores the fundamentals that the tow vehicle should be heavier than the van you still think he has given good advice? All through the video he is only talking about being legal with weights, but makes no comment on the safety or handling. Just like an accountant who only cares that columns balance, not what the figures mean.
Some expert.
BasilB said
06:37 AM Oct 24, 2023
hi Tony,
you found the elephant, doesn't mean you understand it though.
Basil,
This thread is it seems full of opinions, opinions divided into 2 groups, those with attempts to provide evidence by any means possible and opinions based on throwing rocks at opposing views. You are the latter. We know your views without attempts to provide facts. Repeat repeat repeat.
yobarr said
11:22 AM Oct 24, 2023
Are We Lost wrote:
yobarr wrote:Maaaaate! 10/10. That video should be compulsory viewing, with an exam to follow, for ALL caravanners,
The video confirms everything that I have persisted in posting over the years in my efforts to help people, d
So does that include where he suggests a Jeep can tow 3500kg? It just needs attention to axle loads and you may run out of payload. I wonder what words you would use if a forum member on here proposed to tow 3500kg with a Jeep.
This video is from a self confessed non expert on WDH. He said he has never driven with one. Yet when he ignores the fundamentals that the tow vehicle should be heavier than the van you still think he has given good advice? All through the video he is only talking about being legal with weights, but makes no comment on the safety or handling. Just like an accountant who only cares that columns balance, not what the figures mean.
Some expert.
Once again, Steve, you seem to have taken the "Bull by the Horns", so to speak.
Nowhere have I condoned the stupidity of using a Jeep to tow 3500kg.
What I did say is "confirms everything that I have persisted in posting over the years ".
This does not mean, and NEVER did I say, "I agree with everything he says". Surely you understand the difference?
Please note that "He confirms (agrees with) everything I have said" does NOT, in any way, mean the same as "I agree with everything he has said". Got it?
Make no mistake, there is some bad advice in the video but can you imagine the uproar if he stated on an freely available internet video that "This Jeep can't tow 3500kg" when it has been given a (perhaps unwarranted?) legal tow rating of 3500kg?
The missing operative word is safely as although this car is rated to tow 3500kg it can NEVER safely do so if the trailer is a PIG trailer. The manufacturers "Out" always is that their car can indeed tow 3500kg, but only as a DOG trailer.
Make no mistake. Ignorance is some peoples' biggest asset, as evidenced by the stubborness of some to accept simple truths, such as the stupidity of trying to safely tow a 3500kg van with any of the popular twin-cab utes, or an LC200, among others.
We all know that , if safety is of ANY concern, ALWAYS the car should have at least 10% more weight on its wheels than is on the wheels of the van it is towing, but this was not covered in the video.
I iterate "He agrees with everything I have said" does NOT in any way mean "I agree with everything he has said".
Thankyou for kindly pointing out what you perceived to be an error in my original post, but again you were mistaken. Cheers
BasilB said
11:57 AM Oct 24, 2023
hi Tony, if you don't know just say so,
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
Eaglemax said
02:26 PM Oct 24, 2023
BasilB wrote:
hi Tony, if you don't know just say so,
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
Grow up mate. As I see it there is not a facility to "ignore a member". That being to not receive any posts that members prints. So, on notice I wont tolerate stupid tit for tat remarks from a schoolyard mentality. I'm not here for that rubbish. I recommend others do the same.
Now back to this amusing and interesting thread.
Tony
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 02:30:59 PM
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 02:34:34 PM
Eaglemax said
02:42 PM Oct 24, 2023
Are We Lost wrote:
yobarr wrote:Maaaaate! 10/10. That video should be compulsory viewing, with an exam to follow, for ALL caravanners,
The video confirms everything that I have persisted in posting over the years in my efforts to help people, d
So does that include where he suggests a Jeep can tow 3500kg? It just needs attention to axle loads and you may run out of payload. I wonder what words you would use if a forum member on here proposed to tow 3500kg with a Jeep.
This video is from a self confessed non expert on WDH. He said he has never driven with one. Yet when he ignores the fundamentals that the tow vehicle should be heavier than the van you still think he has given good advice? All through the video he is only talking about being legal with weights, but makes no comment on the safety or handling. Just like an accountant who only cares that columns balance, not what the figures mean.
Some expert.
This thread started off about an upside down WDH and subsequently expanded, naturally, to ball weight changes yes or no, with a WDH. All good. Then to expand/prove such on either side of the debate videos etc are intorduced to support either side, great. But then the microscopic details of such videos are then focussed on eg Jeeps and their towing capacities.
I dont think there is intent from members to take contributors away from the thread theme but it would be good to stick roughly on track. Pulling out weeds in a forest is pointless.
Tony
Eaglemax said
02:43 PM Oct 24, 2023
shakey55 wrote:
Its getting to me
You want help to exit? Or contribute meaningfully?
Tony
BasilB said
04:31 PM Oct 24, 2023
hi Tony,
this thread is a great opportunity to chat about the dreaded WDH,
they are not a great unknowable mystery,
if you don't know just say so, pretty simple really.
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
cheers
yobarr said
05:47 PM Oct 24, 2023
Eaglemax wrote:
Grow up mate. As I see it there is not a facility to "ignore a member". That being to not receive any posts that members prints. So, on notice I wont tolerate stupid tit for tat remarks from a schoolyard mentality. I'm not here for that rubbish. I recommend others do the same.
Hi Tony. There once was a member, since deleted/banned, who consistently posted what I regarded as faecal material so after some attempts at meaningful dialogue I simply ceased communicating with him. Job done! Cheers
BasilB said
05:53 PM Oct 24, 2023
well,
playing the victim card seems easier than a considered response,
cheers
yobarr said
05:55 PM Oct 24, 2023
BasilB wrote:
hi Tony,
this thread is a great opportunity to chat about the dreaded WDH,
they are not a great unknowable mystery.
if you don't know just say so, pretty simple really.
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
cheers
Using and understanding the effects of a WDH certainly is not a "great unknowable mystery" but it certainly is a great unknowable mystery to me why some members continue to bleat, moan and flatly refuse to accept facts. C'est la vie!
Seems that ignorance is their biggest asset, and they intend to fiercely protect it.
Any mirrors at your house? Cheers
BasilB said
06:10 PM Oct 24, 2023
hi yobarr,
when you post ignorance as facts you're just misleading the good members.
cheers
yobarr said
08:33 PM Oct 24, 2023
BasilB wrote:
hi yobarr,
when you post ignorance as facts you're just misleading the good members.
cheers
How can I possibly dispute that comment as you appear to be a person with intimate knowledge of ignorance.
When it comes to weights never have I written anything that I cannot prove to be true.
My early days as a member of our great forum were spent showing a few old boys who had been "Towing for years Mate, my twin-cab tows my 3500kg van Mate, no worries Mate" that their "achievement" was more a result of good luck than of good management, and that there was NO WAY that they were towing legally.
This quickly got a few offside, but people soon began to realise that, with weights, I know what I'm talking about, so instead of risking input from other well meaning, but mistaken members, these members felt more comfortable sending me PMs.
To that end I have helped many, even travelling to visit them at their homes.
I note that you have been a member for 5 years, and had made very few posts until recently?
Since then you've posted rubbish a few times, but still made no contribution of any value!
You've posted the same couple of lines several times. Boring.
Can we anticipate any intelligent posts from you? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 09:23:09 PM
Eaglemax said
08:46 PM Oct 24, 2023
X2
Tony
Brenda and Alan said
09:48 PM Oct 24, 2023
Yobarr
If you have never printed anything that is not true explain to me how the weight of the tow vehicle becomes less and the caravan heavier with the use of a WDH.
In saying this you are saying Newtons laws of gravitation and his laws of motion are wrong. They state quite implicitly that these weight changes are not possible.
Google his law of universal gravitation and if you can follow it it will prove the the weight that the car applies to the weigh bridge is fixed by its mass and gravity and cannot change.
If after this you still think I am wrong then please give us your most learned new theory of gravitation. NASA may be interested as Newtons seems to have worked very well for them.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 09:48:42 PM
yobarr said
10:13 PM Oct 24, 2023
Brenda and Alan wrote:
Yobarr
If you have never printed anything that is not true explain to me how the weight of the tow vehicle becomes less and the caravan heavier with the use of a WDH.
In saying this you are saying Newtons laws of gravitation and his laws of motion are wrong. They state quite implicitly that these weight changes are not possible.
Google his law of universal gravitation and if you can follow it it will prove the the weight that the car applies to the weigh bridge is fixed by its mass and gravity and cannot change.
If after this you still think I am wrong then please give us your most learned new theory of gravitation. NASA may be interested as Newtons seems to have worked very well for them.
Alan
Sorry Alan, but I've just about had enough of talking to the wall.
Many times I've explained the procedure, but you seem more interested in being contrary for the sake of being contrary.
Instead of continually presenting your own convoluted theories that are at odds with all material presented by WDH manufacturers and engineers, could I respectfully suggest that you instead approach these people directly to explain to them the error of their ways?
You'd make a name for yourself and could become very rich.
Nah, didn't think you would.
All my advice is offered in the simplest of terms in an effort to assist learners in understanding weights and the effects of using the much over-rated WDH, but you seem more intent on causing as much confusion as you can, for no good reason. Very sad.
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 10:29:50 PM
Gundog said
08:02 AM Oct 25, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Instead of continually presenting your own convoluted theories that are at odds with all material presented by WDH manufacturers and engineers, could I respectfully suggest that you instead approach these people directly to explain to them the error of their ways?
All my advice is offered in the simplest of terms in an effort to assist learners in understanding weights and the effects of using the much over-rated WDH, but you seem more intent on causing as much confusion as you can, for no good reason. Very sad.
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 10:29:50 PM
Please explain how you are such an expert about weight distribution hitches in a country of 26 million people, where in a country 335 million people who use WDH's with towball weight from 600lbs to 1600lbs that manufactures and engineers who design and build them can be so wrong ?
The absolute gaul of you setting yourself as an authority on the subject, that could actually cause someone to have a serious accident by not using one if required.
This simplified answer how a weight distibution hitch works.
Rather than the weight being centered on the point where the trailer and vehicle connect, the weight distribution hitch distributes the weight across the axels of the vehicle and trailer.
Plain Truth said
09:31 AM Oct 25, 2023
Maybe this article can help https://www.truckfriendly.com.au/weight-distribution-hitches-facts-and-fiction/
Maybe this article can help https://www.truckfriendly.com.au/weight-distribution-hitches-facts-and-fiction/
Thanks Alan, for posting this simple truth. Later today I will address Graham's confused diatribe.
Even his LARGE RED highlighted sentence is incorrect as a WDH doesn't shift ANY weight that is "centered (centred?) on the point where the trailer and vehicle connect". That weight stays the same.
Your post AGAIN explains this!
Some weight is shifted from the car's REAR AXLE and distributed to the other axle groups.
Never have I "set yourself up as an authority on the subject", simply presenting the facts. Cheers
Great to hear from you again, Alan, as I was concerned that you may have discovered the error of your ways, and gone to ground.
Perhaps you should now take the time to view, in its entirity, the video posted by Tony (Eaglemax) which confirms all the facts that I have been tirelessly presenting for the last 5 years. If you still can't accept the truth then there is little more that I can do to help you.
Please note that I cannot be bothered "Trolling the internet" to prove a point, as I live by the words of Desiderata:- "Speak your truth quietly and clearly, and listen to others, even to the dull and ignorant. They too have their story."
Everybody is entitled to an opinion, no matter how misguided they may be. Tony's video should open your eyes. Cheers
Sorry Bas, I spent a long time compiling a detailed response, but promptly deleted it. However, like Tony, I have tired of presenting information to those who appear to not be interested in actually learning, preferring to "Rock the Boat".
Over the last 5 years I have many times explained the procedure to show what effect a WDH has when it is tensioned, so you might like to use the "Search" facility in search of your answer. Good luck. Cheers
hi yobarr, if you don't know just say so,
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
Hmmm. This makes no sense, to me anyway. Would this not require 100% weight return, at least, to the car's front axle? Given that the towball weight increases the total weight of the car, and is leveraged behind the rear axle, in order to get the front back to its original height you'd have to wind the WDH right up. Interesting assertion. Better to buy a better car, me thinks. Cheers
Not interested Bas, and like Tony, I'm not taking the bait. Have a lovely evening.
hi yobarr, Tony found the elephant in the room, we should thank him.
now if you don't know just say so, it's only a forum.
where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
Much research has shown that it came from a Skyhook. Happy now?
-- Edited by yobarr on Monday 23rd of October 2023 08:50:45 PM
see? that didn't hurt much
cheers
So does that include where he suggests a Jeep can tow 3500kg? It just needs attention to axle loads and you may run out of payload. I wonder what words you would use if a forum member on here proposed to tow 3500kg with a Jeep.
This video is from a self confessed non expert on WDH. He said he has never driven with one. Yet when he ignores the fundamentals that the tow vehicle should be heavier than the van you still think he has given good advice? All through the video he is only talking about being legal with weights, but makes no comment on the safety or handling. Just like an accountant who only cares that columns balance, not what the figures mean.
Some expert.
hi Tony,
you found the elephant, doesn't mean you understand it though.
cheers
Its getting to me
Once again, Steve, you seem to have taken the "Bull by the Horns", so to speak.
Nowhere have I condoned the stupidity of using a Jeep to tow 3500kg.
What I did say is "confirms everything that I have persisted in posting over the years ".
This does not mean, and NEVER did I say, "I agree with everything he says". Surely you understand the difference?
Please note that "He confirms (agrees with) everything I have said" does NOT, in any way, mean the same as "I agree with everything he has said". Got it?
Make no mistake, there is some bad advice in the video but can you imagine the uproar if he stated on an freely available internet video that "This Jeep can't tow 3500kg" when it has been given a (perhaps unwarranted?) legal tow rating of 3500kg?
The missing operative word is safely as although this car is rated to tow 3500kg it can NEVER safely do so if the trailer is a PIG trailer. The manufacturers "Out" always is that their car can indeed tow 3500kg, but only as a DOG trailer.
Make no mistake. Ignorance is some peoples' biggest asset, as evidenced by the stubborness of some to accept simple truths, such as the stupidity of trying to safely tow a 3500kg van with any of the popular twin-cab utes, or an LC200, among others.
We all know that , if safety is of ANY concern, ALWAYS the car should have at least 10% more weight on its wheels than is on the wheels of the van it is towing, but this was not covered in the video.
I iterate "He agrees with everything I have said" does NOT in any way mean "I agree with everything he has said".
Thankyou for kindly pointing out what you perceived to be an error in my original post, but again you were mistaken. Cheers
hi Tony, if you don't know just say so,
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
in your own words
cheers
Grow up mate. As I see it there is not a facility to "ignore a member". That being to not receive any posts that members prints. So, on notice I wont tolerate stupid tit for tat remarks from a schoolyard mentality. I'm not here for that rubbish. I recommend others do the same.
Now back to this amusing and interesting thread.
Tony
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 02:30:59 PM
-- Edited by Eaglemax on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 02:34:34 PM
This thread started off about an upside down WDH and subsequently expanded, naturally, to ball weight changes yes or no, with a WDH. All good. Then to expand/prove such on either side of the debate videos etc are intorduced to support either side, great. But then the microscopic details of such videos are then focussed on eg Jeeps and their towing capacities.
I dont think there is intent from members to take contributors away from the thread theme but it would be good to stick roughly on track. Pulling out weeds in a forest is pointless.
Tony
You want help to exit? Or contribute meaningfully?
Tony
hi Tony,
this thread is a great opportunity to chat about the dreaded WDH,
they are not a great unknowable mystery,
if you don't know just say so, pretty simple really.
now where did that 30KG (294N) come from?
cheers
Hi Tony. There once was a member, since deleted/banned, who consistently posted what I regarded as faecal material so after some attempts at meaningful dialogue I simply ceased communicating with him. Job done! Cheers
well,
playing the victim card seems easier than a considered response,
cheers
Using and understanding the effects of a WDH certainly is not a "great unknowable mystery" but it certainly is a great unknowable mystery to me why some members continue to bleat, moan and flatly refuse to accept facts. C'est la vie!
Seems that ignorance is their biggest asset, and they intend to fiercely protect it.
Any mirrors at your house? Cheers
hi yobarr,
when you post ignorance as facts you're just misleading the good members.
cheers
How can I possibly dispute that comment as you appear to be a person with intimate knowledge of ignorance.
When it comes to weights never have I written anything that I cannot prove to be true.
My early days as a member of our great forum were spent showing a few old boys who had been "Towing for years Mate, my twin-cab tows my 3500kg van Mate, no worries Mate" that their "achievement" was more a result of good luck than of good management, and that there was NO WAY that they were towing legally.
This quickly got a few offside, but people soon began to realise that, with weights, I know what I'm talking about, so instead of risking input from other well meaning, but mistaken members, these members felt more comfortable sending me PMs.
To that end I have helped many, even travelling to visit them at their homes.
I note that you have been a member for 5 years, and had made very few posts until recently?
Since then you've posted rubbish a few times, but still made no contribution of any value!
You've posted the same couple of lines several times. Boring.
Can we anticipate any intelligent posts from you? Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 09:23:09 PM
Yobarr
If you have never printed anything that is not true explain to me how the weight of the tow vehicle becomes less and the caravan heavier with the use of a WDH.
In saying this you are saying Newtons laws of gravitation and his laws of motion are wrong. They state quite implicitly that these weight changes are not possible.
Google his law of universal gravitation and if you can follow it it will prove the the weight that the car applies to the weigh bridge is fixed by its mass and gravity and cannot change.
If after this you still think I am wrong then please give us your most learned new theory of gravitation. NASA may be interested as Newtons seems to have worked very well for them.
Alan
-- Edited by Brenda and Alan on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 09:48:42 PM
Sorry Alan, but I've just about had enough of talking to the wall.
Many times I've explained the procedure, but you seem more interested in being contrary for the sake of being contrary.
Instead of continually presenting your own convoluted theories that are at odds with all material presented by WDH manufacturers and engineers, could I respectfully suggest that you instead approach these people directly to explain to them the error of their ways?
You'd make a name for yourself and could become very rich.
Nah, didn't think you would.
All my advice is offered in the simplest of terms in an effort to assist learners in understanding weights and the effects of using the much over-rated WDH, but you seem more intent on causing as much confusion as you can, for no good reason. Very sad.
-- Edited by yobarr on Tuesday 24th of October 2023 10:29:50 PM
Please explain how you are such an expert about weight distribution hitches in a country of 26 million people, where in a country 335 million people who use WDH's with towball weight from 600lbs to 1600lbs that manufactures and engineers who design and build them can be so wrong ?
The absolute gaul of you setting yourself as an authority on the subject, that could actually cause someone to have a serious accident by not using one if required.
This simplified answer how a weight distibution hitch works.
Rather than the weight being centered on the point where the trailer and vehicle connect, the weight distribution hitch distributes the weight across the axels of the vehicle and trailer.
Maybe this article can help https://www.truckfriendly.com.au/weight-distribution-hitches-facts-and-fiction/
Thanks Alan, for posting this simple truth. Later today I will address Graham's confused diatribe.
Even his LARGE RED highlighted sentence is incorrect as a WDH doesn't shift ANY weight that is "centered (centred?) on the point where the trailer and vehicle connect". That weight stays the same.
Your post AGAIN explains this!
Some weight is shifted from the car's REAR AXLE and distributed to the other axle groups.
Never have I "set yourself up as an authority on the subject", simply presenting the facts. Cheers