Noting I live in Central Vic, I have solar on my roof (4.8Kw) and I also run evacuated tube solar hot water. This is where I believe that we can make the most difference (and stop our cities having a love affair with Mac Mansions).
While I don't disagree with any comments here in relation to our energy future, except for those advocating more eyesore wind turbines, or those advocating equally horrendous and far more farm land grabbing solar arrays especially when they are are on prime irrigated agricultural land (Shepparton area, particularly but just about anywhere in Vic), nuclear is so obvious for a country like Australia.
Unfortunately politics, interferes with EVERY decision made in the state and federal parliaments of Australia. It does not matter one iota what the issues is, politics stuffs it up. So, so many of our politicians are in it for themselves, and/or their party first and not all for their constituents or Australia as a whole.
Our politicians, it doesn't matter what party, cannot see past the next election and keeping themselves on the gravy train.
It is time we, as voters, forced the/our politicians to firstly look after their State/Australia, secondly their constituents and a very distant last their party and keeping themselves on the gravy train.
Sadly, many may enter politics with all sorts of good intentions, but so very, very often the are quickly corrupted.
This is so true of this country Australia.
Because of this our children will be saddled with a massive financial burden in the future.
Regards
Rob
Aussie1 said
12:32 PM Nov 10, 2020
Sarco Harris wrote:
Noting I live in Central Vic, I have solar on my roof (4.8Kw) and I also run evacuated tube solar hot water. This is where I believe that we can make the most difference (and stop our cities having a love affair with Mac Mansions).
While I don't disagree with any comments here in relation to our energy future, except for those advocating more eyesore wind turbines, or those advocating equally horrendous and far more farm land grabbing solar arrays especially when they are are on prime irrigated agricultural land (Shepparton area, particularly but just about anywhere in Vic), nuclear is so obvious for a country like Australia.
Unfortunately politics, interferes with EVERY decision made in the state and federal parliaments of Australia. It does not matter one iota what the issues is, politics stuffs it up. So, so many of our politicians are in it for themselves, and/or their party first and not all for their constituents or Australia as a whole.
Our politicians, it doesn't matter what party, cannot see past the next election and keeping themselves on the gravy train.
It is time we, as voters, forced the/our politicians to firstly look after their State/Australia, secondly their constituents and a very distant last their party and keeping themselves on the gravy train.
Sadly, many may enter politics with all sorts of good intentions, but so very, very often the are quickly corrupted.
X2 And spot on about nuclear.
Aus-Kiwi said
02:20 PM Nov 12, 2020
One thing having battery storage as we do in our vans etc . Its another thing to have the energy to supply industries. Although many seem to be happy closing them down . Then the manufacturing is overseas. What we have now as renewables is heavily subsidised. Trouble with AC power is its not easy to store !! Only DC can be stored . Then large inverters are required !Imagine the size required to run a smelter etc ? Those holes in the ground etc are no worse than cities . Every time I drive over the Blue Mountains to Sydney I see heaps of pollution. Also consider the mining of battery contents overseas !! It seems no one wants to take responsibility for this ! Its always someone elses fault for pollution!!
Aussie1 said
02:27 PM Nov 12, 2020
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
One thing having battery storage as we do in our vans etc . Its another thing to have the energy to supply industries. Although many seem to be happy closing them down . Then the manufacturing is overseas. What we have now as renewables is heavily subsidised. Trouble with AC power is its not easy to store !! Only DC can be stored . Then large inverters are required !Imagine the size required to run a smelter etc ? Those holes in the ground etc are no worse than cities . Every time I drive over the Blue Mountains to Sydney I see heaps of pollution. Also consider the mining of battery contents overseas !! It seems no one wants to take responsibility for this ! Its always someone elses fault for pollution!!
And just another (of many) really good reasons for good clean Nuclear !
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:47 PM Nov 12, 2020
Most renewable energy won't be stored in batteries. It will be stored as pumped hydro, hydrogen and ammonia, amongst others, which are easily converted back to AC.
Nuclear's time has past. Ask Japan or Germany or Russia.
Cheers,
Peter
bgt said
03:58 PM Nov 12, 2020
Nuclear has past? You must be joking. Germany is relying on coal power from the east and nuclear from France. Choose the facts carefully. Or to suit your argument. California is anti nuclear while importing fossil fuel for their power stations while proclaiming they are green.
Germany is building a coal fired power plant. Nuclear provides 25% of Germany's power. I could go on but I don't want to mention how expensive electricity is in Germany.
Over 80% of Japan's electricity comes from fossil fuel. Japan has over 20 new coal fired power stations being built or planned.
And as for California. No you didn't mention it but I am. California holds it self up as the power poster boy. Do some research on 2 gov. The Browns. Oh yeah Jerry Brown who professed to be green. Killed off more green energy while he and his family profited. Do some research on his association with the Sierra Club.
Follow the money trail. Green isn't about the environment. It's all about the likes of Al Gore and his like making more green money.
China is make green money. China is taking our money and our jobs while we watch our industries fold due to power prices. Aged folks freeze to death or die from heat stroke because they can't afford their electricity. China banks our green money while polluting unabated until we are broke.
Tell the poor folks in developing countries that they can't have what you have. Like cheap reliable power and a job. Tell them it's more important to climb into a warm bed each night because you want to feel all warm and fuzzy. While they curl up on a dirt floor.
Australian's are a wake up to the inner city latte set telling everyone what they can and can't do. Joel Fitzgibbon is a wake up and more from the left will follow.
I'm tired of the haves telling everyone else they can't have.
Most greens are hypocrites that squeal like wounded pigs when their coffee gets cold.
Sorry for the rant. But time to call out the BS.
-- Edited by bgt on Thursday 12th of November 2020 04:57:48 PM
Greystone said
04:50 PM Nov 12, 2020
We are transitioning. Our reliance on fossil fuels will diminish to be replaced by renewables. Storage will take shape in different forms, hydro, batteries, hydrogen etc. There will also be new technologies that we don't know yet. Picking one specific "favourite" type of energy now will only lead to disappointment in the future.
Whenarewethere said
05:06 PM Nov 12, 2020
Heatwaves shut down reactors, France knows this problem too well. The reactors need to be close to massive water supply for cooling. Needs to be near the main transmission infrastructure.
Unless Australia is prepared to rebuild the transmission system at the coast or create massive amounts of inland water it is simply not going to happen.
But the first issue boils down to insurance & liability.
All of us have various opinions on the pros & cons of fossil, renewable energy & will probably never agree.
As a bird watcher, what concerns me most about solar & wind technologies is the effect it has on birds - namely loss of habitat (trees for nesting in, food & water). Quoting our QLD fiend (Mr Palmer), "Birds have wings, they can fly", that's correct but new birds encroaching on others' patches has detrimental effects on both populations - as well, some birds have different feeding needs. Some eat seed off the ground, some eat it on the stalk or in the trees. All require water from some source.
Our farmers are being bashed for run off affecting the GBR - I wonder about the future erosion issues that may occur on the huge solar farms with no roots of trees to hold the ground together. Australia has not seen a good wide spread heavy rain for a number of years - perhaps being a La Nina year 2020-21 might be a trial. As long as the anticipated cyclones don't affect our cities dramatically!
Then we have wind power - some of Australia's most beautiful birds fly from Tasmania, PNG at night! I don't know that the radars built into their brains can cope with spinning blades in the dark. It is known that the critically endangered orange-bellied parrot has been falling foul of these farms.
Don't get me wrong - there is a place for this energy, just some serious homework needs to be done environmentally. We are not the only creatures on this planet but we are the ones that can make the major changes - both good & bad.
Regarding wave power - if it could be developed satisfactory & ok built to be "look good", there are parts of the coast where it could be used well (someone mentioned areas of the Kimberly), there's Darwin, parts of the West Coast of SA e.g. around Elliston. But there are obvious construction issues!
So that is one side - another; when are we going to be pushed to give up our fossil fuelled cars to 100% electric? When there will be charging stations on the Birdsville Road (it gave up being a track decades ago)? Will our battery powered vehicles still be able to tow the juggernauts we see on the road today?
And another is the waste - what will become of it? I did hear a report that there was a stockpile of thousands of failed solar panels in Townsville (don't know where). I'm looking forward to seeing roofs painted with a silicon PV material that won't have the disadvantages of the systems we have now.
So what do I see in the future? Lots more discussions like this one for one. We can agree to disagree nicely without saying "You're wrong & I'm right".
Aussie1 said
12:39 PM Nov 14, 2020
Good post Warren-Pat 01, I would only suggest if using an electric car on the Birdsville Rd, don't forget the GENERATOR !!
Peter_n_Margaret said
02:44 PM Nov 14, 2020
Long range vehicles (including interstate semis) will be electric from hydrogen in the short term at least. The hydrogen tank will be a fraction of the size of the diesel tank for the same range. The hydrogen will come from renewable electrical energy and when converted back to electricity there is zero pollution save a little CO2 and a little pure water. This is done in a fuel cell which is well known technology. We had a small one in a motorhome in Europe. It produced 75W 24/7 almost silently for battery charging and used methanol for the hydrogen source. A brilliant piece of gear. Trucks will use hydrogen directly.
I have never seen a solar farm, here or overseas, that involved the clearing of any trees. Cheers, Peter
One needs to look at bird deaths per GWh of electricity generated, coal is worse than windmills.
Warren-Pat_01 said
10:27 PM Nov 14, 2020
Hi Peter,
It depends on what you class as trees. Trees as in forest or trees as scrub, or previous mango farms, etc. I agree no forests of "big trees" have been cleared. But regarding scrub that does provide home for various species, try the Sun Metals solar farm in Townsville, the big new one at Kelso, even out at Kidston where they have pumped hydro (a great system if they can transport the power at the right price) - they too have a humongous solar farm there as well on ground that had some scrub cover.
You will no doubt remember the issue of the Adani Mine & the black-throated finch (southern species). That bird used to extend down into northern NSW, now there are only small pockets of them to the SW of Townsville. They have very specific needs to survive. Give a decade or two & a very pretty little bird will be all but memories.
We saw various instances of electric trucks in Switzerland but they were then only small (5 ton capacity). I was hanging off changing from our Patrol with it approaching its 500,000km birthday, thinking that perhaps instead of getting the D-max, I'd go straight to an electric 4x4. However we changed - perhaps for the best, as with my last health issue, I'd still be in hospital because there was no way I could get into the Nissan with my leg as it is! Hopefully we're one day from home (600kms).
This is so true of this country Australia.
Because of this our children will be saddled with a massive financial burden in the future.
Regards
Rob
X2 And spot on about nuclear.
And just another (of many) really good reasons for good clean Nuclear !
Nuclear's time has past. Ask Japan or Germany or Russia.
Cheers,
Peter
Nuclear has past? You must be joking. Germany is relying on coal power from the east and nuclear from France. Choose the facts carefully. Or to suit your argument. California is anti nuclear while importing fossil fuel for their power stations while proclaiming they are green.
Germany is building a coal fired power plant. Nuclear provides 25% of Germany's power. I could go on but I don't want to mention how expensive electricity is in Germany.
Over 80% of Japan's electricity comes from fossil fuel. Japan has over 20 new coal fired power stations being built or planned.
And as for California. No you didn't mention it but I am. California holds it self up as the power poster boy. Do some research on 2 gov. The Browns. Oh yeah Jerry Brown who professed to be green. Killed off more green energy while he and his family profited. Do some research on his association with the Sierra Club.
Follow the money trail. Green isn't about the environment. It's all about the likes of Al Gore and his like making more green money.
China is make green money. China is taking our money and our jobs while we watch our industries fold due to power prices. Aged folks freeze to death or die from heat stroke because they can't afford their electricity. China banks our green money while polluting unabated until we are broke.
Tell the poor folks in developing countries that they can't have what you have. Like cheap reliable power and a job. Tell them it's more important to climb into a warm bed each night because you want to feel all warm and fuzzy. While they curl up on a dirt floor.
Australian's are a wake up to the inner city latte set telling everyone what they can and can't do. Joel Fitzgibbon is a wake up and more from the left will follow.
I'm tired of the haves telling everyone else they can't have.
Most greens are hypocrites that squeal like wounded pigs when their coffee gets cold.
Sorry for the rant. But time to call out the BS.
-- Edited by bgt on Thursday 12th of November 2020 04:57:48 PM
Heatwaves shut down reactors, France knows this problem too well. The reactors need to be close to massive water supply for cooling. Needs to be near the main transmission infrastructure.
Unless Australia is prepared to rebuild the transmission system at the coast or create massive amounts of inland water it is simply not going to happen.
But the first issue boils down to insurance & liability.
As a bird watcher, what concerns me most about solar & wind technologies is the effect it has on birds - namely loss of habitat (trees for nesting in, food & water). Quoting our QLD fiend (Mr Palmer), "Birds have wings, they can fly", that's correct but new birds encroaching on others' patches has detrimental effects on both populations - as well, some birds have different feeding needs. Some eat seed off the ground, some eat it on the stalk or in the trees. All require water from some source.
Our farmers are being bashed for run off affecting the GBR - I wonder about the future erosion issues that may occur on the huge solar farms with no roots of trees to hold the ground together. Australia has not seen a good wide spread heavy rain for a number of years - perhaps being a La Nina year 2020-21 might be a trial. As long as the anticipated cyclones don't affect our cities dramatically!
Then we have wind power - some of Australia's most beautiful birds fly from Tasmania, PNG at night! I don't know that the radars built into their brains can cope with spinning blades in the dark. It is known that the critically endangered orange-bellied parrot has been falling foul of these farms.
Don't get me wrong - there is a place for this energy, just some serious homework needs to be done environmentally. We are not the only creatures on this planet but we are the ones that can make the major changes - both good & bad.
Regarding wave power - if it could be developed satisfactory & ok built to be "look good", there are parts of the coast where it could be used well (someone mentioned areas of the Kimberly), there's Darwin, parts of the West Coast of SA e.g. around Elliston. But there are obvious construction issues!
So that is one side - another; when are we going to be pushed to give up our fossil fuelled cars to 100% electric? When there will be charging stations on the Birdsville Road (it gave up being a track decades ago)? Will our battery powered vehicles still be able to tow the juggernauts we see on the road today?
And another is the waste - what will become of it? I did hear a report that there was a stockpile of thousands of failed solar panels in Townsville (don't know where). I'm looking forward to seeing roofs painted with a silicon PV material that won't have the disadvantages of the systems we have now.
So what do I see in the future? Lots more discussions like this one for one. We can agree to disagree nicely without saying "You're wrong & I'm right".
Long range vehicles (including interstate semis) will be electric from hydrogen in the short term at least. The hydrogen tank will be a fraction of the size of the diesel tank for the same range.
The hydrogen will come from renewable electrical energy and when converted back to electricity there is zero pollution save a little CO2 and a little pure water. This is done in a fuel cell which is well known technology.
We had a small one in a motorhome in Europe. It produced 75W 24/7 almost silently for battery charging and used methanol for the hydrogen source. A brilliant piece of gear. Trucks will use hydrogen directly.
I have never seen a solar farm, here or overseas, that involved the clearing of any trees.
Cheers,
Peter
One needs to look at bird deaths per GWh of electricity generated, coal is worse than windmills.
It depends on what you class as trees. Trees as in forest or trees as scrub, or previous mango farms, etc. I agree no forests of "big trees" have been cleared. But regarding scrub that does provide home for various species, try the Sun Metals solar farm in Townsville, the big new one at Kelso, even out at Kidston where they have pumped hydro (a great system if they can transport the power at the right price) - they too have a humongous solar farm there as well on ground that had some scrub cover.
You will no doubt remember the issue of the Adani Mine & the black-throated finch (southern species). That bird used to extend down into northern NSW, now there are only small pockets of them to the SW of Townsville. They have very specific needs to survive. Give a decade or two & a very pretty little bird will be all but memories.
We saw various instances of electric trucks in Switzerland but they were then only small (5 ton capacity). I was hanging off changing from our Patrol with it approaching its 500,000km birthday, thinking that perhaps instead of getting the D-max, I'd go straight to an electric 4x4. However we changed - perhaps for the best, as with my last health issue, I'd still be in hospital because there was no way I could get into the Nissan with my leg as it is! Hopefully we're one day from home (600kms).