Yobar, details of my car are in my Signature. I also corrected the typo. I dont know how you can or will get any weight differences other than what i quoted as they are taken directly from my owners manual. As JLR Aus have verified what I have said (and not a dealer) and the fact that some people on the AULRO website have displayed direct copies of correspondance from JLR, I am sorry to say again you just dont understand the weights and towing capacities of LandRovers. Rest assured you are in the majority of non LandRover owners, who just cannot comprehend why such a car with such a "chequered" history can tow 3.5T unlike most other vehicles and especially some from the "unbreakable" brand. I will not comment on this topic any further as the OEM was about a Dodge Ram and my initial response was to a question about what can legally tow 3.5T. And clearly the three models I mentioned can and has been verified by people who I believe are experts in this area. I dont know what your quals are (and personally I dont care) as I know that my figures and comments stack up against my original claim.
yobarr said
08:52 AM Sep 8, 2019
HandyWalter wrote:
Yobar, details of my car are in my Signature. I also corrected the typo. I dont know how you can or will get any weight differences other than what i quoted as they are taken directly from my owners manual. As JLR Aus have verified what I have said (and not a dealer) and the fact that some people on the AULRO website have displayed direct copies of correspondance from JLR, I am sorry to say again you just dont understand the weights and towing capacities of LandRovers. Rest assured you are in the majority of non LandRover owners, who just cannot comprehend why such a car with such a "chequered" history can tow 3.5T unlike most other vehicles and especially some from the "unbreakable" brand. I will not comment on this topic any further as the OEM was about a Dodge Ram and my initial response was to a question about what can legally tow 3.5T. And clearly the three models I mentioned can and has been verified by people who I believe are experts in this area. I dont know what your quals are (and personally I dont care) as I know that my figures and comments stack up against my original claim.
Walter,again I will try to help you understand.On a Landrover website search for a D4,I found that it is stated that a 350kg towball weight removes 147kg from the front axle,so my 150kg estimate was very close.Your GVM is 3240kg,but you have lost 150kg of that with the weight transferred to the rear axle,so you have only 3090kg left.In view of the fact that,if safety is of any concern,the weight on the wheels of the car should be at least 10% more than the weight on the vans wheels (GTM),only a fool would tow a 3150kg GTM van behind a car with GVM of only 3090kg.And you still will be overloaded on your rear axle if you wish to carry anything in the car.Your flash suspension does not in any way affect the transfer of weight from your front axle to the rear axle......absolutely none.All it does is level the car to make it look pretty.Sad but true....Sorry.Cheers.
Rob Driver said
09:58 AM Sep 8, 2019
Some good points in this topic.
Unfortunately we have a member here that seems to insist that we all tow our respective vans or for that other loaded trailers with a 79 series Toyota ute. Apparently according to him, no other vehicle is capable of towing a van no matter how sensibly we have loaded it or how any of us may have legally modified our tow vehicle or van.
Well just in case he has convinced the OP or anyone else for that matter to consider one of these vehicles, then, have a read of this.
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 8th of September 2019 10:22:06 AM
TheHeaths said
11:19 AM Sep 8, 2019
Yes. But what about the Dodge?
Rob Driver said
11:58 AM Sep 8, 2019
TheHeaths wrote:
Yes. But what about the Dodge?
Unfortunately Ian, the topic has been dragged to the point of little recovery.
The Ram seems like a nice vehicle and it is a shame if, infact, the rear axle only has that rating.
I am no authority but the different load ratings on some of these American utes varies a lot if the diff ratio varies, or if the vehicle has dual wheels fitted to the rear. I did note once some time ago that tyre size and rating could change the load capacity of some of these vehicles.
Unfortunately these facts are not mentioned by the member who seems to enjoy informing all other members that their vehicles are not suitable. Many of us DO know all our weights and travel within all laws and guidelines and to us, many of his rankings do not apply.
If I were to consider a new Ram I would do some research as to what may and may not be achieved by simply just choosing different available combinations of the above. I would doubt very much if the diff assembly was only rated that low as far as its load rating is concerned.
A little research may be the secret formula.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 8th of September 2019 11:59:16 AM
yobarr said
12:09 PM Sep 8, 2019
TheHeaths wrote:
Yes. But what about the Dodge?
The Dodge has been exposed for what it is,and thus relegated to its rightful position,among those vehicles that cannot safely tow more than 3000kg as a PIG trailer.Cheers
Dougwe said
01:10 PM Sep 8, 2019
I wasn't going to get involved but can't help myself.
It's about time this thread was locked as it has been taken over and getting nowhere fast.
Give up Y ya getting nowhere
yobarr said
01:30 PM Sep 8, 2019
Dougwe wrote:
I wasn't going to get involved but can't help myself.
It's about time this thread was locked as it has been taken over and getting nowhere fast.
Give up Y ya getting nowhere
Hi Doug....I tend to agree with the last line in your post,as it seems that trying to help others understand weights, and, indeed,physics,is akin to flogging a dead horse.The mob mentality sets in,and they do not want to know,which is the reason we have so many adoring LC200 owners thinking they can safely tow a 3500kg van.They cannot,and th Ram 1500 is even less capable.At least when such people have an accident,and find themselves uninsured because they were overloaded,I can be comfortable that I did my best to prevent such an event happening.Cheers
KevinJ said
05:54 PM Sep 8, 2019
This post interests me as I am yet to decide on a tug and a van as per my intro a few months back. I knew very little on weights and balances and how important they are to caravanning though I flew light aircraft for many years where weight and balance and centre of gravity is critical for safe flight.
I asked a civil engineer who I know about axle loads and how to calculate them and he has given me the formulas which I have put into a spreadsheet so I can understand more. He has never towed a caravan but understood the problem immediately. I am happy to share the spreadsheet and encourage feedback if it is not correct.
There are 9 tests in it with very round numbers so you can get a feel for it. There is also one for you to enter your own numbers to get a result. Just click on the "Solve" hyperlink after you have entered the numbers in the yellow cells. The numbers in the yellow cells at the moment are closely related to the RAM 1500 debate.
This post interests me as I am yet to decide on a tug and a van as per my intro a few months back. I knew very little on weights and balances and how important they are to caravanning though I flew light aircraft for many years where weight and balance and centre of gravity is critical for safe flight.
I asked a civil engineer who I know about axle loads and how to calculate them and he has given me the formulas which I have put into a spreadsheet so I can understand more. He has never towed a caravan but understood the problem immediately. I am happy to share the spreadsheet and encourage feedback if it is not correct.
There are 9 tests in it with very round numbers so you can get a feel for it. There is also one for you to enter your own numbers to get a result. Just click on the "Solve" hyperlink after you have entered the numbers in the yellow cells. The numbers in the yellow cells at the moment are closely related to the RAM 1500 debate.
Hi Kevin...congratulations on your well thought-out spreadsheet,which clearly shows how a 300kg ball weight on a car with a 3 metre wheelbase,and a 1500mm towball overhang,puts 450kg onto the rear axle of the car. The chart clearly shows how the wheelbase to towball overhang ratio affects this weight transfer,with a shorter chassis resulting in a greater weight transfer than that from a car with a longer wheelbase,assuming the same towball overhang.I do know the calculation (and used it to check your figures!)...your civil engineer friend has pointed you in the right direction! Thankyou.Perhaps this will help the people who have been arguing with me to understand weights,and to realise that I do know what I am talking about. And you will no doubt be aware that no matter how many airbags you have,or how advanced is your air suspension,it does not affect the transfer of weight that occurs when weight is applied to the towball.The figures you have supplied are 100% accurate, and I would once again like to congratulate you!Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 8th of September 2019 06:59:54 PM
TheHeaths said
07:32 PM Sep 8, 2019
I was being sarcastic. This thread is now well beyond its use by date.
I find the content reasonable, but the tone leaves a lot to be desired!
KevinJ said
07:35 PM Sep 8, 2019
I can't comment on the air bags but from a flying point of view it is the same as pumping fuel from the front of the plane to the rear of the plane as people walk to the front of the plane or visa versa to keep it in balance.
-- Edited by KevinJ on Sunday 8th of September 2019 07:37:33 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
12:37 PM Sep 14, 2019
Get an LR /MR licence . Buy an appropriate tow vehicle. Just to add to debate !!
Walter,again I will try to help you understand.On a Landrover website search for a D4,I found that it is stated that a 350kg towball weight removes 147kg from the front axle,so my 150kg estimate was very close.Your GVM is 3240kg,but you have lost 150kg of that with the weight transferred to the rear axle,so you have only 3090kg left.In view of the fact that,if safety is of any concern,the weight on the wheels of the car should be at least 10% more than the weight on the vans wheels (GTM),only a fool would tow a 3150kg GTM van behind a car with GVM of only 3090kg.And you still will be overloaded on your rear axle if you wish to carry anything in the car.Your flash suspension does not in any way affect the transfer of weight from your front axle to the rear axle......absolutely none.All it does is level the car to make it look pretty.Sad but true....Sorry.Cheers.
Some good points in this topic.
Unfortunately we have a member here that seems to insist that we all tow our respective vans or for that other loaded trailers with a 79 series Toyota ute.
Apparently according to him, no other vehicle is capable of towing a van no matter how sensibly we have loaded it or how any of us may have legally modified our tow vehicle or van.
Well just in case he has convinced the OP or anyone else for that matter to consider one of these vehicles, then, have a read of this.
http://www.caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80327
Cheers
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 8th of September 2019 10:22:06 AM
Unfortunately Ian, the topic has been dragged to the point of little recovery.
The Ram seems like a nice vehicle and it is a shame if, infact, the rear axle only has that rating.
I am no authority but the different load ratings on some of these American utes varies a lot if the diff ratio varies, or if the vehicle has dual wheels fitted to the rear. I did note once some time ago that tyre size and rating could change the load capacity of some of these vehicles.
Unfortunately these facts are not mentioned by the member who seems to enjoy informing all other members that their vehicles are not suitable. Many of us DO know all our weights and travel within all laws and guidelines and to us, many of his rankings do not apply.
If I were to consider a new Ram I would do some research as to what may and may not be achieved by simply just choosing different available combinations of the above. I would doubt very much if the diff assembly was only rated that low as far as its load rating is concerned.
A little research may be the secret formula.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Sunday 8th of September 2019 11:59:16 AM
The Dodge has been exposed for what it is,and thus relegated to its rightful position,among those vehicles that cannot safely tow more than 3000kg as a PIG trailer.Cheers
I wasn't going to get involved but can't help myself.
It's about time this thread was locked as it has been taken over and getting nowhere fast.
Give up Y ya getting nowhere
Hi Doug....I tend to agree with the last line in your post,as it seems that trying to help others understand weights, and, indeed,physics,is akin to flogging a dead horse.The mob mentality sets in,and they do not want to know,which is the reason we have so many adoring LC200 owners thinking they can safely tow a 3500kg van.They cannot,and th Ram 1500 is even less capable.At least when such people have an accident,and find themselves uninsured because they were overloaded,I can be comfortable that I did my best to prevent such an event happening.Cheers
This post interests me as I am yet to decide on a tug and a van as per my intro a few months back. I knew very little on weights and balances and how important they are to caravanning though I flew light aircraft for many years where weight and balance and centre of gravity is critical for safe flight.
I asked a civil engineer who I know about axle loads and how to calculate them and he has given me the formulas which I have put into a spreadsheet so I can understand more. He has never towed a caravan but understood the problem immediately. I am happy to share the spreadsheet and encourage feedback if it is not correct.
There are 9 tests in it with very round numbers so you can get a feel for it. There is also one for you to enter your own numbers to get a result. Just click on the "Solve" hyperlink after you have entered the numbers in the yellow cells. The numbers in the yellow cells at the moment are closely related to the RAM 1500 debate.
Hi Kevin...congratulations on your well thought-out spreadsheet,which clearly shows how a 300kg ball weight on a car with a 3 metre wheelbase,and a 1500mm towball overhang,puts 450kg onto the rear axle of the car. The chart clearly shows how the wheelbase to towball overhang ratio affects this weight transfer,with a shorter chassis resulting in a greater weight transfer than that from a car with a longer wheelbase,assuming the same towball overhang.I do know the calculation (and used it to check your figures!)...your civil engineer friend has pointed you in the right direction! Thankyou.Perhaps this will help the people who have been arguing with me to understand weights,and to realise that I do know what I am talking about. And you will no doubt be aware that no matter how many airbags you have,or how advanced is your air suspension,it does not affect the transfer of weight that occurs when weight is applied to the towball.The figures you have supplied are 100% accurate, and I would once again like to congratulate you!Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Sunday 8th of September 2019 06:59:54 PM
I find the content reasonable, but the tone leaves a lot to be desired!
I can't comment on the air bags but from a flying point of view it is the same as pumping fuel from the front of the plane to the rear of the plane as people walk to the front of the plane or visa versa to keep it in balance.
-- Edited by KevinJ on Sunday 8th of September 2019 07:37:33 PM