Hi Dorian, have they actually got these cells into a commercially available panel format yet? I was reading about a quad junction cell that had achieved very impressive conversion figures but I haven't seen any mention as to whether it scaled up to a marketable product yet.
I have no idea as to what is happening in the solar industry, but aside from misleading references to GaAs at Alibaba, there do not seem to be any consumer panels, only panels for the space industry (satellites, etc). Apparently the price per watt is HUGE. FWIW, I notice that not even the Darwin-Adelaide World Solar Challenge allows for any PV cell chemistries other than silicon based ones.
-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 19th of January 2019 05:38:55 PM
:lol: Buyer Beware, who knows if it actually works as good or better than a Victron MPPT controller, anyone want to do some hands on testing? For $80 it might even be worth looking to see if the battery voltage sensing can be separated from the battery charging leads, that would make it superior to the cheaper Victron range then
T1 Terry
Jaahn said
09:26 PM Jan 19, 2019
dorian wrote:
Baz421 wrote:
Is the Victron MPPT 75 15 controller a genuine MPPT or PWM in disguise?
Is this Hanfong/Victron really a Victron, and is it really "smart" (ie Bluetooth equipped)?
I would not think I was getting a Victron after looking closely at that add. In fact the pictures were of several models with different ratings 10, 15, 20A. None had Victron on them.
And this statement "Protection: "Battery reverse polarity (fuse,not user accesssible) ------" and " there are 8 gears to adjust the voltage to meet different types of batteries"
I expect Victron will take action against them. But who knows if it works OK.
Jaahn
dorian said
08:39 AM Jan 22, 2019
AISI, there are only a few significant differences between an MPPT controller and a "PWM" controller.
inductor and Schottky flywheel diode in buck converter
filter capacitor for panel output
sensor (resistor or Hall effect) for panel current
MPPT routine in firmware
These block diagrams demonstrate that an MPPT controller does not have separate MPPT and PWM hardware, as claimed by some:
In the second diagram the vertical and horizontal switches can be implemented with a Schottky diode and MOSFET chopper, respectively.
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 22nd of January 2019 09:19:42 AM
Whenarewethere said
09:19 AM Jan 22, 2019
dorian wrote:
Baz421 wrote:
Is the Victron MPPT 75 15 controller a genuine MPPT or PWM in disguise?
Is this Hanfong/Victron really a Victron, and is it really "smart" (ie Bluetooth equipped)?
-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 19th of January 2019 05:38:55 PM
That looks nothing like my 75/10 so I would suggest that it is a fake, & people wonder why they are not getting the benifits of real MPPT product.
Pay the correct amout for long term peace of mind & buy one from an authorised retailer in Australia instead of the Chinese fake rubbish. You will have the use of Fair Trading who will most likely be on your side.
dorian said
09:25 AM Jan 22, 2019
ISTM that the only time one can begin to trust anything that comes out of China is when an overseas principal has been involved in all aspects of design, manufacturing, and quality control.
Whenarewethere said
10:03 AM Jan 22, 2019
I am thinking of replacing my 75/10 with a larger unit. Even though the 75/10 can handle 145 watts at 12 volts (6 X 20 watt Projecta panels). It is taking everything it can from my 120 watt setup & stops the current to the battery at exactly 10 amps. So I would suggest give yourself a bit of headroom for the future.
dorian said
10:21 AM Jan 22, 2019
Whenarewethere wrote:
I am thinking of replacing my 75/10 with a larger unit.
If you do, would you mind uploading photos of the innards of the old controller? BTW, thanks for you instructive photos and information.
Whenarewethere said
11:02 AM Jan 22, 2019
dorian wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
I am thinking of replacing my 75/10 with a larger unit.
If you do, would you mind uploading photos of the innards of the old controller? BTW, thanks for you instructive photos and information.
More than happy to do that. But it is a bit of a task to remove the controller the way I mounted it on an aluminium heatsink, partly due to the car itself, & from the best of my ability of my memory (getting old) I have a gut feel that it was bonded into the cover, & I would want to keep it as backup. But if I do replace is I will let you know how I go.
T1 Terry said
12:08 PM Jan 22, 2019
The Victron MPPT controllers have all their componentry encased in a blue compound that also glues it to the inside of the plastic case. Many yrs back I wanted to see if the battery voltage sensing could be separated from the battery output side of the controller and tore a rather expensive 30/100 unit apart. I didn't find anything straight forwardly available that would dissolve the potting goo they use to hide their circuitry, so I gave up.
T1 Terry
dorian said
02:34 PM Jan 22, 2019
Why does this Morningstar 12/24V 15A MPPT controller cost AU$400+ ?
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 22nd of January 2019 02:37:37 PM
Jaahn said
09:55 PM Jan 22, 2019
Whenarewethere wrote:
I am thinking of replacing my 75/10 with a larger unit. Even though the 75/10 can handle 145 watts at 12 volts (6 X 20 watt Projecta panels). It is taking everything it can from my 120 watt setup & stops the current to the battery at exactly 10 amps. So I would suggest give yourself a bit of headroom for the future.
Hi
It seems to me that your problem of the regulator cutting off at 10A is transitory. It will only happen when the voltage is low and the sun is full strength. Under these conditions the battery voltage will usually rise quickly. The voltage rise will remove the problem as the MPPT action will decrease as the voltage difference reduces. Just my comment.
To repeat, for the information of others following this thread, the current considered important for the rating of a MPPT regulator is the output to the battery. NOT the solar panel current. This quality Victron reg does self limit to its rating.
As another comment I recall my Victron reg was made in India.
Jaahn
T1 Terry said
01:47 PM Jan 23, 2019
dorian wrote:
Why does this Morningstar 12/24V 15A MPPT controller cost AU$400+ ?
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 22nd of January 2019 02:37:37 PM
And why does a Morningstar MPPT controller derate after the internal temperature passes 40*C yet another brand that does work extremely well and has a 60 amp rating can handle 70*C internal temp without derating yet costs roughly half as much?
T1 Terry
T1 Terry said
12:24 PM Jan 29, 2019
Not sure if this will be of any interest to you Dorian, but it is a solar control and battery balancer designed for lithium batteries funded through one of those type sites electrodacus.com/SBMS120/manual/SBMSmanual.pdf This bloke is in Canada and has built quite a few models leading up to this latest rendition and probably covers quite a few of the ideas you have put forward, all at quite a reasonable price I feel.
I'm about to install one in my Hino motorhome with 6 x 270w Tindo panels charging a 24v lithium battery and do a bit of testing on it to see if it lives up to the claims.
I have no idea as to what is happening in the solar industry, but aside from misleading references to GaAs at Alibaba, there do not seem to be any consumer panels, only panels for the space industry (satellites, etc). Apparently the price per watt is HUGE. FWIW, I notice that not even the Darwin-Adelaide World Solar Challenge allows for any PV cell chemistries other than silicon based ones.
https://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/files/2272_2019_bwsc_regulations_release_version_3.pdf
Is this Hanfong/Victron really a Victron, and is it really "smart" (ie Bluetooth equipped)?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victron-SmartSolar-12-24V-MPPT-Solar-Charge-Controller-20A-Waterproof-Fast-Charg/254073137582
"Item location: NSW, Australia"
-- Edited by dorian on Saturday 19th of January 2019 05:38:55 PM
:lol: Buyer Beware, who knows if it actually works as good or better than a Victron MPPT controller, anyone want to do some hands on testing? For $80 it might even be worth looking to see if the battery voltage sensing can be separated from the battery charging leads, that would make it superior to the cheaper Victron range then
T1 Terry
Hi Dorian
I would not think I was getting a Victron after looking closely at that add. In fact the pictures were of several models with different ratings 10, 15, 20A. None had Victron on them.
And this statement "Protection: "Battery reverse polarity (fuse,not user accesssible) ------"
and " there are 8 gears to adjust the voltage to meet different types of batteries"
I expect Victron will take action against them. But who knows if it works OK.
Jaahn
AISI, there are only a few significant differences between an MPPT controller and a "PWM" controller.
These block diagrams demonstrate that an MPPT controller does not have separate MPPT and PWM hardware, as claimed by some:
In the second diagram the vertical and horizontal switches can be implemented with a Schottky diode and MOSFET chopper, respectively.
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 22nd of January 2019 09:19:42 AM
That looks nothing like my 75/10 so I would suggest that it is a fake, & people wonder why they are not getting the benifits of real MPPT product.
Pay the correct amout for long term peace of mind & buy one from an authorised retailer in Australia instead of the Chinese fake rubbish. You will have the use of Fair Trading who will most likely be on your side.
ISTM that the only time one can begin to trust anything that comes out of China is when an overseas principal has been involved in all aspects of design, manufacturing, and quality control.
I am thinking of replacing my 75/10 with a larger unit. Even though the 75/10 can handle 145 watts at 12 volts (6 X 20 watt Projecta panels). It is taking everything it can from my 120 watt setup & stops the current to the battery at exactly 10 amps. So I would suggest give yourself a bit of headroom for the future.
If you do, would you mind uploading photos of the innards of the old controller? BTW, thanks for you instructive photos and information.
More than happy to do that. But it is a bit of a task to remove the controller the way I mounted it on an aluminium heatsink, partly due to the car itself, & from the best of my ability of my memory (getting old) I have a gut feel that it was bonded into the cover, & I would want to keep it as backup. But if I do replace is I will let you know how I go.
T1 Terry
Why does this Morningstar 12/24V 15A MPPT controller cost AU$400+ ?
http://www.kg4cyx.net/under-the-hood-morningstar-sunsaver-mppt/
https://2n1s7w3qw84d2ysnx3ia2bct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/SSMPPT_ENG10_1111.pdf (datasheet)
https://2n1s7w3qw84d2ysnx3ia2bct-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/SSMPPT.IOM_.EN_.03-4-131.pdf (manual)
This 60A unit costs between US$50 and $300, depending on the configuration:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/60A-12V-24V-48V-solar-panel_60493357599.html
Here is a German made MPPT controller:
https://www.laptop-junction.com/toast/content/mppt-solar-power-battery-charging
-- Edited by dorian on Tuesday 22nd of January 2019 02:37:37 PM
Hi
It seems to me that your problem of the regulator cutting off at 10A is transitory. It will only happen when the voltage is low and the sun is full strength. Under these conditions the battery voltage will usually rise quickly. The voltage rise will remove the problem as the MPPT action will decrease as the voltage difference reduces. Just my comment.
To repeat, for the information of others following this thread, the current considered important for the rating of a MPPT regulator is the output to the battery. NOT the solar panel current. This quality Victron reg does self limit to its rating.
As another comment I recall my Victron reg was made in India.
Jaahn
And why does a Morningstar MPPT controller derate after the internal temperature passes 40*C yet another brand that does work extremely well and has a 60 amp rating can handle 70*C internal temp without derating yet costs roughly half as much?
T1 Terry
I'm about to install one in my Hino motorhome with 6 x 270w Tindo panels charging a 24v lithium battery and do a bit of testing on it to see if it lives up to the claims.
T1 Terry