Big Battery threat from E V (thats electric cars gthat will save us)
Cuppa said
07:16 PM Jun 4, 2023
So okay will you please enlighten me
Nope, I don't think that I can. No point in engaging in circular argument. We need to do the best we can to avoid catastrophic man made climate change to our planet. Putting energy into arguing against reasons not to do this are not helpful. If genuine discussion aimed at averting the looming crisis as the goal were possible there would be a reason to try. A simpler course would be to listen to current science to better inform.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 4th of June 2023 07:24:05 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 4th of June 2023 07:27:04 PM
Gundog said
07:26 PM Jun 4, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
So okay will you please enlighten me
Nope, I don't think that I can. No point in engaging in circular argument. We need to do the best we can to avoid catastrophic man made climate change to our planet. Putting energy into arguing against reasons not to do this are not helpful.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 4th of June 2023 07:24:05 PM
Great answer so you have NFI
Cuppa said
08:11 PM Jun 4, 2023
I don't claim expertise, just a willingness to be informed by the best sources available - the overwhelming worldwide scientific consensus. I don't claim that current efforts are perfect, but I also don't simply seek to criticise it in any way I can.
You might rather rudely call that having NFI - an accusation which could be levelled at anyone without scientific expertise.
I wonder how you manage to 'know better'.
My view is that we are in a time of great transition with no fixed map of how to best get to where our best science tells us we need to be, but I am quite sure that all the disbelievers of that science represent the biggest threat to the path forward being derailed, having little but reactive criticism to offer.
If we could agree upon goals then perhaps useful discussion could occur between us as to how best to achieve them, but I feel that there are no agreed goals, because there is no agreement about what the problems are, so any argument simply becomes a circular nonsense, enabling us to move closer to the possibility of worldwide catastrophe. I'm sure some believe their criticisms of science, but I think many are only using argument to stand in the way of change to the selfish detriment of us all.
I don't for a moment expect agreement, but I do hope that you understand & respect an outlook which differs from yours. Modern 'social media influenced life' seems to suggest 'side taking' & tribalism over issues is the way to be, but I don't accept that. I would have far greater respect for attempts to find points of agreement to share than to search for differences to beat each other with. That way, I believe builds respect & makes settling/acceptance of differences easier & more productive.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 4th of June 2023 08:27:59 PM
yobarr said
09:13 PM Jun 4, 2023
rgren2 wrote:
Climate change is real, but, is it caused by man? Australia definitely has little impact.
Too much logic in that comment. In my opinion its all a con-job of unrivalled proportions, with Australias emissions being no more than 1% of the worlds total, while China contributes around 27%.
What a joke it all becomes when we happily close our miserable little coalfired power stations while happily exporting millions of tons of coal to the worlds biggest polluter. Derrrrrr!
And China builds 2 new Coal Fired Power Stations EVERY WEEK. Too much thinking involved, apparently.
WA closes coal-mine at Collie, then ships coal from Victoria to Collie, I believe? Spare me!
Craig1 said
09:23 AM Jun 5, 2023
So, has does anyone know anyone who has bought an E V that has truly considered the consequences 0f the inevitable battery failure and how to Recycle the same dirty thing?
Or are they mostly purchased by people who will trade it or just sell it before it's useby ?
-- Edited by Craig1 on Monday 5th of June 2023 09:24:04 AM
peter67 said
09:55 AM Jun 5, 2023
EV's are being written off readily for one reason after a small crash, the risk to insurance companies of a later fire whether the car is in storage at a repair shop, or has been repaired and is now in the owners garage.
Gundog said
10:11 AM Jun 5, 2023
Cuppa there is a simple explanation I am not a Climate Denier but a Climate Realist
Over the years we have had scientists predicting various event all in the name of climate change, I could find dozens of such failed predictions, Explain this one, about 10 years ago this scientific prediction was made:-
One of the world's leading ice experts has predicted the final collapse of Arctic sea ice in summer months within four years.
In what he calls a "global disaster" now unfolding in northern latitudes as the sea area that freezes and melts each year shrinks to its lowest extent ever recorded, Prof Peter Wadhams of Cambridge University calls for "urgent" consideration of new ideas to reduce global temperatures.
How did that one turn out ?
And then we have Al Gore the biggest bag of hot air, the champion of the climate crazies the world over one of his latest is to reduce agriculture, WTF do that and a lot of people get hungury.
Lets talk about the "Battery" nah lets not go there as its just a bloody joke. Outside of being a city commuter vehicle it has little revelance to the rest of the world outside Europe.
Little anecdote about 2 weeks ago we were on our way to Brisbane from the Whitsunday's, we pulled up at Mount Larcom to go to the toilet, there just happens to be an EV charger there, lo and behold there is an EV there and trying to charge his Hyundai, he tries both chargers multiple times and it appears they are not working, I dont know the result of the owners problem as we left. So depending on how much charge he had left its 76k to Rocky or 32k to Gladstone. Wonder what happened.
Aussie1 said
07:14 PM Jun 6, 2023
Gundog wrote:
Cuppa there is a simple explanation I am not a Climate Denier but a Climate Realist
Over the years we have had scientists predicting various event all in the name of climate change, I could find dozens of such failed predictions, Explain this one, about 10 years ago this scientific prediction was made:-
One of the world's leading ice experts has predicted the final collapse of Arctic sea ice in summer months within four years.
In what he calls a "global disaster" now unfolding in northern latitudes as the sea area that freezes and melts each year shrinks to its lowest extent ever recorded, Prof Peter Wadhams of Cambridge University calls for "urgent" consideration of new ideas to reduce global temperatures.
How did that one turn out ?
And then we have Al Gore the biggest bag of hot air, the champion of the climate crazies the world over one of his latest is to reduce agriculture, WTF do that and a lot of people get hungury.
Lets talk about the "Battery" nah lets not go there as its just a bloody joke. Outside of being a city commuter vehicle it has little revelance to the rest of the world outside Europe.
Little anecdote about 2 weeks ago we were on our way to Brisbane from the Whitsunday's, we pulled up at Mount Larcom to go to the toilet, there just happens to be an EV charger there, lo and behold there is an EV there and trying to charge his Hyundai, he tries both chargers multiple times and it appears they are not working, I dont know the result of the owners problem as we left. So depending on how much charge he had left its 76k to Rocky or 32k to Gladstone. Wonder what happened.
Mate, he hasn't responded to your post because what you have posted is spot on. But he will probably take a shot . Oh, by the way, it's a big NO from me as well.
a 6 year old utube on energy from a now past master, and a fortune teller-predictor
Cuppa said
04:27 AM Jun 7, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
Mate, he hasn't responded to your post because what you have posted is spot on. But he will probably take a shot . Oh, by the way, it's a big NO from me as well.
Cheers.
Aussie1, I haven't responded for the reason I gave in my previous post. Your comment about 'taking a shot' is way off the mark, & I believe suggests your expectation of a combative style of interaction.
a 6 year old utube on energy from a now past master, and a fortune teller-predictor
I think that sums it up to a T.
When it come to climate change and energy, you cannot have a sensible discussion with climate zealots here in Australia, because they have been drinking the Green Kool Aide which some how deletes the common sense portion of their brain.
Ask those who support the headlong rush into destroying load based power generation with renewables, aka wind and solar. And then throw into the mix if acheive 50% saving in carbon emissions, how is that going to help when one country is 27% of the problem and is increasing their levels, which ultimatly will tell the UN climate change commission or whatever its called now to POQADCB.
The simple explanation is it's bit like peeing in a bucket with 27 holes in the bottom!
Look to the other side of the Pacific, the great state of Californica, the place ran by crazies, with a stupid climate agenda. Now telling their EV owners not to charge their vehicles at night, because it will cause blackouts. Go figure that one.
Cuppa said
09:49 AM Jun 7, 2023
Gundog wrote:
When it come to climate change and energy, you cannot have a sensible discussion with climate zealots here in Australia, because they have been drinking the Green Kool Aide which some how deletes the common sense portion of their brain.
You know, I believe we could have far more reasonable discussion, not necessarily agreement, were you & a few others here to refrain from put downs & insults, & instead to focus on the issues & not the people. I for one find it much harder to respond to some of your points, which seem to be reasonable even if they don't sit well with me. Instead what I see when when you put down those with differing views to yourself is 'attacks' which I either respond to or ignore. The points that you make get lost in that 'battle mentality' which cplours the discussion. Much the same as Aussie1' 'taking a shot' comment. It would be far nicer if name calling & put downs were left out of the mix.
Basher said
12:33 PM Jun 7, 2023
Cuppa, give up, I admire, respect and agree with your opion based on scientific facts, simple really to most educated people. You are wasting your time, inteligence and energy trying to talk logic to some of the people on this subject. Its the same mob that continue to post rubbish on here just to get a bite, stiring the pot, luckily for us they are in the minority. And don't mention the yes or no vote, the same old mob start all over again, and again and again! Cheers Cuppa Basher
Make sure to read the comments below the opinion piece to get the full picture. .
what else would expect from those who have fallen for the BS
As long as there is an us & them mentality ..... it is 'them' who have fallen for the BS.
Gundog said
05:14 AM Jun 13, 2023
Ok Cuppa you want a sensible debate !
Explain why 2 states with the smallest populations that have the majority of their power generation from renewables and are unable to sustain their states electricty needs.
In our headlong rush into so called cheaper renewable power, why is it that power prices are continually rising, Jimbo tells us its because the Russian war, has sent gas and coal prices sky high, that was true to a degree, yes the spot pricing went up but the export contracted priced didn't.
Those that invest in renewables energy generally have 20-30 year guaranteed ROI, which is about the time frame for the end of life of the project, so based on the simplistic argument would you as an investor take the whole project cost without government subsidies.
Now we build these renewable projects hundreds of kilometres away from the population centres, and the more we build the further away they become, thus needing massive infrastructure build of poles and wires across vast tracts land, in some cases this infrastructure renders prime agricultural land useless, also vast tracts of virgin country is destroyed for towers that carry the wires. Even if the governments alone or with investors, its we the people that have to pay for within our power bills, the old transmission costs.
The unseen cost that is eventually passed on to the power consumers is when a coal fired power station is closed down not only is it the loss of base load power but the human element, just like when Port Augusta's coal fired powered ceased operation, it wasn't just the workers their who lost their jobs, but also the coal miners at Leigh Creek, the rail workers who transported the coal.
What has become of the town of Leigh Creek ?
Cuppa I pose this question to you as someone who loves the outback are you happy to see it scarred with Wind Turbines and HT transmission towers.
Cuppa said
10:08 AM Jun 13, 2023
The short answer is that we are in a time of transition & still learning. Add to this the problems associated with the need to make profits. It is quite reasonable to expect that doing something new & allowing 'the market' to take charge of it that there will be mistakes made along the way.
Yes I love the outback, & I don't accept your assertion that it will be scarred by wind turbines & HT Transmission towers. No doubt there will be some, but I think they are far preferable to the ravages that climate change could bring.
Power price increases are, I believe largely a result of price gouging by those who can get away with it.
Whenarewethere said
10:38 AM Jun 13, 2023
I remember when they said lead was not going to be used in petrol & we would not be able to drive cars anymore.
Also no CFCs & we wouldn't have refrigeration or any air conditioning.
The sky hasn't fallen in!
Whenarewethere said
10:51 AM Jun 13, 2023
As a kid I remember the thousands of windmills across Australia. Can't see any issues with new ones.
peter67 said
11:12 AM Jun 14, 2023
As I remember quite a few years back, the greenies were against windmills at a certain aussie location as a few endangered parrots were getting walloped by turbine blades.
WAW, the old wooden windmills are more pleasing to the eye than row upon row of identical looking, and much higher, wind turbines. What a disgusting sight they are.
msg said
07:25 PM Jun 21, 2023
ActewAGL green energy prices are going up along with the normal coal fired energy. Why?
So okay will you please enlighten me
Nope, I don't think that I can. No point in engaging in circular argument. We need to do the best we can to avoid catastrophic man made climate change to our planet. Putting energy into arguing against reasons not to do this are not helpful. If genuine discussion aimed at averting the looming crisis as the goal were possible there would be a reason to try. A simpler course would be to listen to current science to better inform.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 4th of June 2023 07:24:05 PM
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 4th of June 2023 07:27:04 PM
Great answer so you have NFI
I don't claim expertise, just a willingness to be informed by the best sources available - the overwhelming worldwide scientific consensus. I don't claim that current efforts are perfect, but I also don't simply seek to criticise it in any way I can.
You might rather rudely call that having NFI - an accusation which could be levelled at anyone without scientific expertise.
I wonder how you manage to 'know better'.
My view is that we are in a time of great transition with no fixed map of how to best get to where our best science tells us we need to be, but I am quite sure that all the disbelievers of that science represent the biggest threat to the path forward being derailed, having little but reactive criticism to offer.
If we could agree upon goals then perhaps useful discussion could occur between us as to how best to achieve them, but I feel that there are no agreed goals, because there is no agreement about what the problems are, so any argument simply becomes a circular nonsense, enabling us to move closer to the possibility of worldwide catastrophe. I'm sure some believe their criticisms of science, but I think many are only using argument to stand in the way of change to the selfish detriment of us all.
I don't for a moment expect agreement, but I do hope that you understand & respect an outlook which differs from yours. Modern 'social media influenced life' seems to suggest 'side taking' & tribalism over issues is the way to be, but I don't accept that. I would have far greater respect for attempts to find points of agreement to share than to search for differences to beat each other with. That way, I believe builds respect & makes settling/acceptance of differences easier & more productive.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Sunday 4th of June 2023 08:27:59 PM
Too much logic in that comment. In my opinion its all a con-job of unrivalled proportions, with Australias emissions being no more than 1% of the worlds total, while China contributes around 27%.
What a joke it all becomes when we happily close our miserable little coalfired power stations while happily exporting millions of tons of coal to the worlds biggest polluter. Derrrrrr!
And China builds 2 new Coal Fired Power Stations EVERY WEEK.
Too much thinking involved, apparently.
WA closes coal-mine at Collie, then ships coal from Victoria to Collie, I believe?
Spare me!
So, has does anyone know anyone who has bought an E V that has truly considered the consequences 0f the inevitable battery failure and how to Recycle the same dirty thing?
Or are they mostly purchased by people who will trade it or just sell it before it's useby ?
-- Edited by Craig1 on Monday 5th of June 2023 09:24:04 AM
Cuppa there is a simple explanation I am not a Climate Denier but a Climate Realist
Over the years we have had scientists predicting various event all in the name of climate change, I could find dozens of such failed predictions, Explain this one, about 10 years ago this scientific prediction was made:-
One of the world's leading ice experts has predicted the final collapse of Arctic sea ice in summer months within four years.
In what he calls a "global disaster" now unfolding in northern latitudes as the sea area that freezes and melts each year shrinks to its lowest extent ever recorded, Prof Peter Wadhams of Cambridge University calls for "urgent" consideration of new ideas to reduce global temperatures.
How did that one turn out ?
And then we have Al Gore the biggest bag of hot air, the champion of the climate crazies the world over one of his latest is to reduce agriculture, WTF do that and a lot of people get hungury.
Lets talk about the "Battery" nah lets not go there as its just a bloody joke. Outside of being a city commuter vehicle it has little revelance to the rest of the world outside Europe.
Little anecdote about 2 weeks ago we were on our way to Brisbane from the Whitsunday's, we pulled up at Mount Larcom to go to the toilet, there just happens to be an EV charger there, lo and behold there is an EV there and trying to charge his Hyundai, he tries both chargers multiple times and it appears they are not working, I dont know the result of the owners problem as we left. So depending on how much charge he had left its 76k to Rocky or 32k to Gladstone. Wonder what happened.
Mate, he hasn't responded to your post because what you have posted is spot on. But he will probably take a shot
. Oh, by the way, it's a big NO from me as well.
Cheers.
a 6 year old utube on energy from a now past master, and a fortune teller-predictor
Mate, he hasn't responded to your post because what you have posted is spot on. But he will probably take a shot
. Oh, by the way, it's a big NO from me as well.
Cheers.
Aussie1, I haven't responded for the reason I gave in my previous post. Your comment about 'taking a shot' is way off the mark, & I believe suggests your expectation of a combative style of interaction.
I think that sums it up to a T.
When it come to climate change and energy, you cannot have a sensible discussion with climate zealots here in Australia, because they have been drinking the Green Kool Aide which some how deletes the common sense portion of their brain.
Ask those who support the headlong rush into destroying load based power generation with renewables, aka wind and solar. And then throw into the mix if acheive 50% saving in carbon emissions, how is that going to help when one country is 27% of the problem and is increasing their levels, which ultimatly will tell the UN climate change commission or whatever its called now to POQADCB.
The simple explanation is it's bit like peeing in a bucket with 27 holes in the bottom!
Look to the other side of the Pacific, the great state of Californica, the place ran by crazies, with a stupid climate agenda. Now telling their EV owners not to charge their vehicles at night, because it will cause blackouts. Go figure that one.
Cuppa, give up, I admire, respect and agree with your opion based on scientific facts, simple really to most educated people.
You are wasting your time, inteligence and energy trying to talk logic to some of the people on this subject.
Its the same mob that continue to post rubbish on here just to get a bite, stiring the pot, luckily for us they are in the minority.
And don't mention the yes or no vote, the same old mob start all over again, and again and again!
Cheers Cuppa
Basher
Make sure to read the comments below the opinion piece to get the full picture. .
what else would expect from those who have fallen for the BS
Ok Cuppa you want a sensible debate !
Explain why 2 states with the smallest populations that have the majority of their power generation from renewables and are unable to sustain their states electricty needs.
In our headlong rush into so called cheaper renewable power, why is it that power prices are continually rising, Jimbo tells us its because the Russian war, has sent gas and coal prices sky high, that was true to a degree, yes the spot pricing went up but the export contracted priced didn't.
Those that invest in renewables energy generally have 20-30 year guaranteed ROI, which is about the time frame for the end of life of the project, so based on the simplistic argument would you as an investor take the whole project cost without government subsidies.
Now we build these renewable projects hundreds of kilometres away from the population centres, and the more we build the further away they become, thus needing massive infrastructure build of poles and wires across vast tracts land, in some cases this infrastructure renders prime agricultural land useless, also vast tracts of virgin country is destroyed for towers that carry the wires. Even if the governments alone or with investors, its we the people that have to pay for within our power bills, the old transmission costs.
The unseen cost that is eventually passed on to the power consumers is when a coal fired power station is closed down not only is it the loss of base load power but the human element, just like when Port Augusta's coal fired powered ceased operation, it wasn't just the workers their who lost their jobs, but also the coal miners at Leigh Creek, the rail workers who transported the coal.
What has become of the town of Leigh Creek ?
Cuppa I pose this question to you as someone who loves the outback are you happy to see it scarred with Wind Turbines and HT transmission towers.
Yes I love the outback, & I don't accept your assertion that it will be scarred by wind turbines & HT Transmission towers. No doubt there will be some, but I think they are far preferable to the ravages that climate change could bring.
Power price increases are, I believe largely a result of price gouging by those who can get away with it.
I remember when they said lead was not going to be used in petrol & we would not be able to drive cars anymore.
Also no CFCs & we wouldn't have refrigeration or any air conditioning.
The sky hasn't fallen in!
As a kid I remember the thousands of windmills across Australia. Can't see any issues with new ones.
WAW, the old wooden windmills are more pleasing to the eye than row upon row of identical looking, and much higher, wind turbines. What a disgusting sight they are.