Pokies -- are they the most disgusting feature of Aussie culture?
Cuppa said
06:01 PM Mar 9, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
weak and feeble minded loosers.
That being your assessment of people addicted to gambling?
Aussie1 said
06:06 PM Mar 9, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
weak and feeble minded loosers.
That being your assessment of people addicted to gambling?
Very perceptive of you, well done.
dorian said
06:15 PM Mar 9, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
Very good points Simon. Last time I checked I got the same result. i.e. nobody forcing anyone. weak and feeble minded loosers.
And you are certainly not blind, deaf or dumb in my opinion.
Likewise, nobody forces drug users to take drugs. Drug pushers and clubs are just filling a need, although some cynical people might see it as exploitation.
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 9th of March 2023 06:19:44 PM
Aussie1 said
06:40 PM Mar 9, 2023
dorian wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Very good points Simon. Last time I checked I got the same result. i.e. nobody forcing anyone. weak and feeble minded loosers.
And you are certainly not blind, deaf or dumb in my opinion.
Likewise, nobody forces drug users to take drugs. Drug pushers and clubs are just filling a need, although some cynical people might see it as exploitation.
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 9th of March 2023 06:19:44 PM
Very good point Dorian, can certainly add drug takers to the "loosers" list
Cuppa said
06:59 PM Mar 9, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
weak and feeble minded loosers.
That being your assessment of people addicted to gambling?
Very perceptive of you, well done.
Your lack of compassion is not unexpected. I hope you never need anyone to lean on. When you look down on others, few would want to take your weight.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:03:17 PM
Xyz said
06:59 PM Mar 9, 2023
Your obviously a very nice, compassionate type of person.
Woops, I see Cuppa beat me too it.
-- Edited by Xyz on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:01:16 PM
smwhiskey said
07:07 PM Mar 9, 2023
Xyz wrote:
Try taking you blinkers off mate, or, are you blind, deaf and dumb, can you not see the damage this industry does to families.
Ian
Unlike a few others, I'm not wearing blinkers and I'm not blind nor deaf nor dumb nor inexperienced when it comes to the effect addictions (including problem gambling) have on families.
So I'll spell it out for you.
You can stop the ads and the apps, ban the pokies, the lotto, the Two up on ANZAC day, the Melbourne Cup sweeps and the Wednesday afternoon bingo. You could even go as far as banning gambling entirely. But that won't stop people from gambling (Australians will bet on 2 flies crawling up a wall) and that won't stop some of them from losing everything. And realistically, the most probable outcome of banning gambling is that the whole industry will head underground and become the domain of the organised criminal. Refer to Prohibition in the USA in the early 20th century for a real world example.
But...
if you can stop people from gambling you will destroy the gambling industry entirely. That doesn't mean just taking away the opportunity to gamble (because people will always find a way to lose their money) but rather take away the impulse to gamble. Similar to a nicotine addict trying to quit smokes where if they can take away the impulse for a nicotine hit they have a much higher chance of giving up the smokes. Take away the impulse to gamble, people will give up gambling and if people don't gamble then there no money to keep the gambling industry afloat and as we've seen numerous times recently, no money mean going out of business.
But short of some scientist developing the magic "easy-fix", "stop gambling" pill, the only successful method I've seen starts with people taking responsibility for their actions and admitting they have a problem.
Simon
Aussie1 said
07:36 PM Mar 9, 2023
Xyz wrote:
Your obviously a very nice, compassionate type of person.
-- Edited by Xyz on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:01:16 PM
Thank you, you got that bit right
Southern Cruizer said
07:40 PM Mar 9, 2023
I worked in the club industry for a total of 33 yrs and I can can tell stories out of school that would make you shudder in your boots. Clubs, pubs, casinos and whatever don't have a lot of control. It's up to the individual to try to help themselves. Even with the now required Responsible Gambling certificate that you are now required to work in the pokie area it limits you to what you can do to help. Unless it's been updated since I finished in 2015, legally all you were allowed to do was to recommend a 1800 number for them to contact. They could put themselves on a self exemption from gambling in the club, pub or wherever till they advised the gambling place otherwise.
And yes, it is a mental disorder. I experienced this with past family but like a lot of things those people can't see it as such.
Aussie1 said
07:55 PM Mar 9, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
weak and feeble minded loosers.
That being your assessment of people addicted to gambling?
Very perceptive of you, well done.
Your lack of compassion is not unexpected. I hope you never need anyone to lean on. When you look down on others, few would want to take your weight.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:03:17 PM
Given your past posts I believe I could count on on you to be there for me Cobber if I need someone to lean on . Cheers.
Cuppa said
09:01 PM Mar 9, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
weak and feeble minded loosers.
That being your assessment of people addicted to gambling?
Very perceptive of you, well done.
Your lack of compassion is not unexpected. I hope you never need anyone to lean on. When you look down on others, few would want to take your weight.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:03:17 PM
Given your past posts I believe I could count on on you to be there for me Cobber if I need someone to lean on . Cheers.
You're probably right.
Aussie1 said
11:17 PM Mar 9, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
Aussie1 wrote:
weak and feeble minded loosers.
That being your assessment of people addicted to gambling?
Very perceptive of you, well done.
Your lack of compassion is not unexpected. I hope you never need anyone to lean on. When you look down on others, few would want to take your weight.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:03:17 PM
Given your past posts I believe I could count on on you to be there for me Cobber if I need someone to lean on . Cheers.
You're probably right.
Thanks Cobber, I knew I could count on you. Your just like a true Aussie born and bread.
gold dandelion said
12:05 AM Mar 10, 2023
I used to like reading the banter on some of these topics, pretty sad reading some of these comments though, may be some people have a keyboard addiction they can't own up to. As Mike Tyson said, "social media made you all too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it"
I do see some of the times the comments are made are after the happy hour has finished.
Aussie1 said
12:16 AM Mar 10, 2023
Ahh Mike Tyson, now there is a great roll model for us. Even after happy hour
Webmaster said
10:38 AM Mar 10, 2023
Just a reminder to keep posts focused on the topic rather than on the person who posted it.
Cuppa said
11:37 AM Mar 10, 2023
Several posters on this thread have made reference to the need for folk with addictions to take responsibility for their own actions as the primary factor in their recovery.
I could not agree more.
Where I don't agree is when folk paint them to be unworthy weak losers, which together with assertions that they need to take personal responsibility, infers (un-compassionately IMO) that leaving it all up to them to 'pull themselves up by their own bootstraps' is all that is needed, OR that they are not worth bothering with.
In the past, I worked for a while in both a hospital ward utilised as a 'drying out' facility for alcoholics, & later in an alcohol rehabilitation centre. The goal for every patient in the rehab unit was to support them in reaching a point where they could begin to take personal responsibility for their lives & staying off the bottle There were rules which made it easier for them to do so, importantly including peer group support as well of course as a no drinking rule & a requirement to participate in the unit's group & individual therapy programmes. They were not 'locked up' & were free to come & go, on proviso that they would not leave the facility in the company of less than two fellow patients. If they went out & drank, their time on the facility's programme ceased, but it remained available should they want to try again at a later date.
There were successes & failures, often with multiple admissions required over time.
No-one was admitted without expressing a desire to join the programme. Many times families & other professionals would plead for them to be admitted against their will, but it was always clear that the person concerned needed to be the person who made that decision for themself, no-one else.
Once there, the amount of support each required was enormous & the courage to fight their demons more so. Anyone who has witnessed folk beat their addiction can recognise that these people were not losers, never had been other than in their own minds. The addiction itself had seen to that.
I make the point because I consider that anyone who sees another in the grip of any addiction & dismisses them as weak, or as a loser does nothing but add to that person's already overwhelming load. It doesn't mean that everyone should be willing or able to help out others in strife if they can, but there really is no reason for adding to the burden of folk already suffering more than many of us will ever experience.
The chances of there being members of this forum with addictions is quite possible, & I think those of us lucky enough not to be in that position have a responsibility to be cognisant of that when the temptation to post judgemental comments arises.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Friday 10th of March 2023 11:44:04 AM
Aussie1 said
12:01 PM Mar 10, 2023
Well, I have to admit I have 2 addictions in my life. one being caravanning and the other being golf. On both I am happy to take responsibility for my actions. :) :)
Tony Bev said
12:39 PM Mar 10, 2023
We are all different, (I think)
I really have no idea, why people gamble (pokies/horses/dogs/on line gambling etc), and why other people do not gamble
I have read that gambling becomes an addiction, and that some people loose every dollar they have, trying to recoup what they have already lost
I still remember the wise words of my old grandad, when he said
"Do not start following the horses, until the price of horse manure goes up"
I suppose I was lucky, that by the time I had spare cash, I was also married with one child, and had responsibilities to spend wisely
Also as none of my friends/rellies gambled, I had no peer pressure to go gambling with them
I do notice the adds on TV, encouraging people to gamble with their mates
I suppose if shove does come to push, then I will stand alongside the anti-gamblers
Mike Harding said
12:52 PM Mar 10, 2023
Many years past when I was doing some education in psychology we had a tutor, June, who was a wise woman. June conveyed a simple concept to me which has been a guiding light in my life since; it is "We do what we want to do."
Aussie1 said
12:59 PM Mar 10, 2023
I have also admit we have been to casinos around the world including LasVagas, Monte Carlo etc and found them very boring however the addiction I got at them was as long as you looked like you were participating (didnt have one bet but did enjoy watching the suckers loosing their dollars) drinks arrived at no cost. That I did not find boring. Life is good
Aussie1 said
01:01 PM Mar 10, 2023
Hi Mike, June was a very astute lady. Completely agree.
Are We Lost said
01:06 PM Mar 10, 2023
The governments make too much money out of gambling to make any serious changes that would reduce problem gambling. But small steps are helping. Having cards that make some control do a little, with the benefit of reducing cash, so making it harder to launder illegal income.
One thing I believe they could legislate with poker machines is to reduce the addiction by design. The poker machine is designed to suck you in and grow the addiction. I remember there was talk a while ago of stopping the upbeat "you have won" music when you have actually lost money. For example, if you play 10 rows, and one them wins, maybe you will get a 5 credit win, so you actually lost. Yet the machine will display a win and play positive music or tone so others will see and hear. If it sounded a negative tone for every loss instead, what a disincetive that would be.
A simple reversal of sounds for win and loss would be a game changer. Can you imagine how quickly the sounds would be turned off if the only sound they were allowed to make was a negative tone for every loss? But, there goes revenue so it will never happen.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 10th of March 2023 01:28:52 PM
The Belmont Bear said
02:23 PM Mar 10, 2023
I seem to recall back in my younger days that NSW was the only state that had poker machines so licensed clubs in towns along the Qld and Victorian borders like Tweed Heads benefited greatly. People crossed over in numbers to play the machines and those border clubs just kept getting bigger, they continually improved their facilities and offered more enticements which increased their membership... I guess the other state governments eventually decided that it would be better if they got some of the money gained from fleecing people rather than just leaving it all to that NSW mob.
I remember a few years ago I was in a large, well known club here in Newcastle in the wee hours of the morning and I watched a group of around 6 women of Asian appearance arrive, spread out and start loading handfulls of $50 notes into 3 or 4 machines each, they wedged the maximum play buttons in so they would keep spinning. When a jackpot paid they would print off the tickets and cash them in at the cashiers window. If they were laundering money from ill gotten gains then it didnt really matter if they lost a little because whatever they cashed in could be shown as legally gotten. Were they money laundering - probably, did the club know about it - probably, did anyone care - no because it was a win/win situation for both parties. I actually felt sorry for the next people who played those machines because after a large jackpot the chances are pretty high that they would pay for it - I have developed a strong suspicion that poker machines arent actually programmed in the players favour. I used to have a bit of fun with the old mechanical machines when you put your coins in (not notes) and when you won it fell into the tray with lots of satisfying noise. if you got a jackpot you would have to call the attendant over, sign the book and show them your badge, nowadays I wouldnt play any of those theiving electronic machines even if I was using someone elses money. I'm well aware that I eventually lost on the old mechanical machines as well but they didnt seem to be as efficient in robbing me..something I have learnt is that gambling really is a tax on the stupid.......
BB
Aussie1 said
06:17 PM Mar 10, 2023
A fool and their money are soon parted. No sympathy from me.
Cuppa said
06:48 PM Mar 10, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
A fool and their money are soon parted. No sympathy from me.
Empathy neither.
Aussie1 said
06:58 PM Mar 10, 2023
No empathy from me. Refuse to be responsible for how others feel.
The weak go under and the strong survive.
Cuppa said
07:05 PM Mar 10, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
No empathy from me. Refuse to be responsible for how others feel. The weak go under and the strong survive.
Responsible???
Apologies for he size of the following screenshot, I couldn't make it smaller on the forum.
Funny about that, that was my understanding of that as well.
Cuppa said
07:13 PM Mar 10, 2023
Aussie1 wrote:
Funny about that, that was my understanding of that as well.
So 'No empathy from me' & 'Refuse to be responsible for how others feel' were actually unrelated then?
Clearly we are both very different people, apparently both happy in our own skins. I just hope you never find yourself in need of help only to find those around you with similar views.
I say, quite genuinely' that I am surprised that anyone would admit, as you have to being so judgemental & uncaring of anyone you deem less worthy than yourself.
That's all I have to say now.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Friday 10th of March 2023 07:26:20 PM
Aussie1 said
07:17 PM Mar 10, 2023
Don't care probably covers it ;) however I should have mentioned I have selective empathy, just to show flexibility. :):):)
That being your assessment of people addicted to gambling?
Very perceptive of you, well done.
Likewise, nobody forces drug users to take drugs. Drug pushers and clubs are just filling a need, although some cynical people might see it as exploitation.
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 9th of March 2023 06:19:44 PM
Very good point Dorian, can certainly add drug takers to the "loosers" list
Your lack of compassion is not unexpected. I hope you never need anyone to lean on. When you look down on others, few would want to take your weight.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:03:17 PM
Your obviously a very nice, compassionate type of person.
Woops, I see Cuppa beat me too it.
-- Edited by Xyz on Thursday 9th of March 2023 07:01:16 PM
Unlike a few others, I'm not wearing blinkers and I'm not blind nor deaf nor dumb nor inexperienced when it comes to the effect addictions (including problem gambling) have on families.
So I'll spell it out for you.
You can stop the ads and the apps, ban the pokies, the lotto, the Two up on ANZAC day, the Melbourne Cup sweeps and the Wednesday afternoon bingo. You could even go as far as banning gambling entirely. But that won't stop people from gambling (Australians will bet on 2 flies crawling up a wall) and that won't stop some of them from losing everything. And realistically, the most probable outcome of banning gambling is that the whole industry will head underground and become the domain of the organised criminal. Refer to Prohibition in the USA in the early 20th century for a real world example.
But...
if you can stop people from gambling you will destroy the gambling industry entirely. That doesn't mean just taking away the opportunity to gamble (because people will always find a way to lose their money) but rather take away the impulse to gamble. Similar to a nicotine addict trying to quit smokes where if they can take away the impulse for a nicotine hit they have a much higher chance of giving up the smokes. Take away the impulse to gamble, people will give up gambling and if people don't gamble then there no money to keep the gambling industry afloat and as we've seen numerous times recently, no money mean going out of business.
But short of some scientist developing the magic "easy-fix", "stop gambling" pill, the only successful method I've seen starts with people taking responsibility for their actions and admitting they have a problem.
Simon
Thank you, you got that bit right
And yes, it is a mental disorder. I experienced this with past family but like a lot of things those people can't see it as such.
Given your past posts I believe I could count on on you to be there for me Cobber if I need someone to lean on
. Cheers.
You're probably right.
Thanks Cobber, I knew I could count on you. Your just like a true Aussie born and bread.
I do see some of the times the comments are made are after the happy hour has finished.
Just a reminder to keep posts focused on the topic rather than on the person who posted it.
Several posters on this thread have made reference to the need for folk with addictions to take responsibility for their own actions as the primary factor in their recovery.
I could not agree more.
Where I don't agree is when folk paint them to be unworthy weak losers, which together with assertions that they need to take personal responsibility, infers (un-compassionately IMO) that leaving it all up to them to 'pull themselves up by their own bootstraps' is all that is needed, OR that they are not worth bothering with.
In the past, I worked for a while in both a hospital ward utilised as a 'drying out' facility for alcoholics, & later in an alcohol rehabilitation centre. The goal for every patient in the rehab unit was to support them in reaching a point where they could begin to take personal responsibility for their lives & staying off the bottle There were rules which made it easier for them to do so, importantly including peer group support as well of course as a no drinking rule & a requirement to participate in the unit's group & individual therapy programmes. They were not 'locked up' & were free to come & go, on proviso that they would not leave the facility in the company of less than two fellow patients. If they went out & drank, their time on the facility's programme ceased, but it remained available should they want to try again at a later date.
There were successes & failures, often with multiple admissions required over time.
No-one was admitted without expressing a desire to join the programme. Many times families & other professionals would plead for them to be admitted against their will, but it was always clear that the person concerned needed to be the person who made that decision for themself, no-one else.
Once there, the amount of support each required was enormous & the courage to fight their demons more so. Anyone who has witnessed folk beat their addiction can recognise that these people were not losers, never had been other than in their own minds. The addiction itself had seen to that.
I make the point because I consider that anyone who sees another in the grip of any addiction & dismisses them as weak, or as a loser does nothing but add to that person's already overwhelming load. It doesn't mean that everyone should be willing or able to help out others in strife if they can, but there really is no reason for adding to the burden of folk already suffering more than many of us will ever experience.
The chances of there being members of this forum with addictions is quite possible, & I think those of us lucky enough not to be in that position have a responsibility to be cognisant of that when the temptation to post judgemental comments arises.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Friday 10th of March 2023 11:44:04 AM
I really have no idea, why people gamble (pokies/horses/dogs/on line gambling etc), and why other people do not gamble
I have read that gambling becomes an addiction, and that some people loose every dollar they have, trying to recoup what they have already lost
I still remember the wise words of my old grandad, when he said
"Do not start following the horses, until the price of horse manure goes up"
I suppose I was lucky, that by the time I had spare cash, I was also married with one child, and had responsibilities to spend wisely
Also as none of my friends/rellies gambled, I had no peer pressure to go gambling with them
I do notice the adds on TV, encouraging people to gamble with their mates
I suppose if shove does come to push, then I will stand alongside the anti-gamblers
Many years past when I was doing some education in psychology we had a tutor, June, who was a wise woman. June conveyed a simple concept to me which has been a guiding light in my life since; it is "We do what we want to do."
The governments make too much money out of gambling to make any serious changes that would reduce problem gambling. But small steps are helping. Having cards that make some control do a little, with the benefit of reducing cash, so making it harder to launder illegal income.
One thing I believe they could legislate with poker machines is to reduce the addiction by design. The poker machine is designed to suck you in and grow the addiction. I remember there was talk a while ago of stopping the upbeat "you have won" music when you have actually lost money. For example, if you play 10 rows, and one them wins, maybe you will get a 5 credit win, so you actually lost. Yet the machine will display a win and play positive music or tone so others will see and hear. If it sounded a negative tone for every loss instead, what a disincetive that would be.
A simple reversal of sounds for win and loss would be a game changer. Can you imagine how quickly the sounds would be turned off if the only sound they were allowed to make was a negative tone for every loss? But, there goes revenue so it will never happen.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Friday 10th of March 2023 01:28:52 PM
I seem to recall back in my younger days that NSW was the only state that had poker machines so licensed clubs in towns along the Qld and Victorian borders like Tweed Heads benefited greatly. People crossed over in numbers to play the machines and those border clubs just kept getting bigger, they continually improved their facilities and offered more enticements which increased their membership... I guess the other state governments eventually decided that it would be better if they got some of the money gained from fleecing people rather than just leaving it all to that NSW mob.
I remember a few years ago I was in a large, well known club here in Newcastle in the wee hours of the morning and I watched a group of around 6 women of Asian appearance arrive, spread out and start loading handfulls of $50 notes into 3 or 4 machines each, they wedged the maximum play buttons in so they would keep spinning. When a jackpot paid they would print off the tickets and cash them in at the cashiers window. If they were laundering money from ill gotten gains then it didnt really matter if they lost a little because whatever they cashed in could be shown as legally gotten. Were they money laundering - probably, did the club know about it - probably, did anyone care - no because it was a win/win situation for both parties. I actually felt sorry for the next people who played those machines because after a large jackpot the chances are pretty high that they would pay for it - I have developed a strong suspicion that poker machines arent actually programmed in the players favour. I used to have a bit of fun with the old mechanical machines when you put your coins in (not notes) and when you won it fell into the tray with lots of satisfying noise. if you got a jackpot you would have to call the attendant over, sign the book and show them your badge, nowadays I wouldnt play any of those theiving electronic machines even if I was using someone elses money. I'm well aware that I eventually lost on the old mechanical machines as well but they didnt seem to be as efficient in robbing me..something I have learnt is that gambling really is a tax on the stupid.......
BB
Empathy neither.
Responsible???
Apologies for he size of the following screenshot, I couldn't make it smaller on the forum.
So 'No empathy from me' & 'Refuse to be responsible for how others feel' were actually unrelated then?
Clearly we are both very different people, apparently both happy in our own skins. I just hope you never find yourself in need of help only to find those around you with similar views.
I say, quite genuinely' that I am surprised that anyone would admit, as you have to being so judgemental & uncaring of anyone you deem less worthy than yourself.
That's all I have to say now.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Friday 10th of March 2023 07:26:20 PM