Temporary stop to solar panels charging house batteries
Burt65 said
08:29 AM Jul 16, 2025
TimTim wrote:
Burt65 wrote:
BarneyBDB wrote:
The fact is that the latest standards are not retrospective and there is nothing to compell us to conform to them.
"Nothing" other than common sense..
lol nice one. Then I hope that you upgraded any house, pool and many other things in your life because many Australian Standards and the Building Code of Australia are continually changing.
So, what you are saying is that, if you do a new solar installation today in your vehicle, you are not going to follow the AUS/NZ Safety Standard, because they are continually changing, therefore you don't see either the point or the need for you to following them?!?
I think you just proved my point of why we had to have Safety Standard..
TimTim said
10:00 AM Jul 16, 2025
No!
You implied that people with common sense would upgrade even if an Australian Standard was not retrospective.
What I'm stating is that every house you have lived in or currently living in has been subject to changes under legislation that include Australian Standards involving safety changes that have far greater risk possibilities than not having a cut off switch on a caravan ELV solar system. Yet you do not upgrade your home to comply with those changes because they are not retrospective and you, like the majority of people, probably wouldn't even know what they are.
Your home, and in fact every building in Australia was or, should of been built, to the applicable Standards at that time just because legislation and Australian Standards change it does not make those building 'against the law' nor are they 'not legal'.
Safety Standard....do you have any statistics on the deaths, serious injuries or damage, caused by people not having a cut off switch on caravan or motor home?
Now i wonder if my portable panels require a cut off switch too .
-- Edited by TimTim on Wednesday 16th of July 2025 10:30:53 AM
Burt65 said
12:59 PM Jul 17, 2025
TimTim wrote:
No!
You implied that people with common sense would upgrade even if an Australian Standard was not retrospective.
What I'm stating is that every house you have lived in or currently living in has been subject to changes under legislation that include Australian Standards involving safety changes that have far greater risk possibilities than not having a cut off switch on a caravan ELV solar system. Yet you do not upgrade your home to comply with those changes because they are not retrospective and you, like the majority of people, probably wouldn't even know what they are.
Your home, and in fact every building in Australia was or, should of been built, to the applicable Standards at that time just because legislation and Australian Standards change it does not make those building 'against the law' nor are they 'not legal'.
Safety Standard....do you have any statistics on the deaths, serious injuries or damage, caused by people not having a cut off switch on caravan or motor home?
Now i wonder if my portable panels require a cut off switch too .
-- Edited by TimTim on Wednesday 16th of July 2025 10:30:53 AM
I definitely do!
If you understand what a Circuit Breaker is for, especially in a vehicle where the wiring is constantly subject to movements and abrasions, you can see the improved safety in having a Circuit break going off, instead of having a wire melting and starting a fire..
Why do you think that every other single wire, already installed in a vehicle, has it own fuse?!? Do you think the manufacturers are stupid?!?
It is not rocket science! Just common sense.. To avoid melting or overheating of wires, we simply use a sacrificial fuse. In a solar installation, it is no different. It took a while for the common sense to catch up, but it is here now..
Again, as individuals, we all have a choice. Honestly, if your vehicle does catch fire (and I hope it never will), because of an unprotected wire, it is not going to make any difference in my life. All it does, it makes the AS/NZ safety standard paying attention, and change the rules. And that's exactly what has already happened.. You are coming to the party a bit too late..
TimTim said
08:23 PM Aug 7, 2025
I understand what a circuit breaker and a fuse is so don't try and conflate the argument when we are talking about a switch. I have a switch on a section of my system and it provides no protection what so ever when it is on and there is current running through the circuit.
There is no "rule" and in another topic you posted that it is law when the Australian Standard is not even referenced in legislation. As I said you haven't upgraded the safety features in your home to meet the latest Standards yet you are here telling people that they need to have a disconnect switch on their solar panels.
It is up to each individual whether they feel they need a switch or not based on their system as there in no law and no rule. As for my system, is it safe? Yes. Do I need a switch? No. Simply because of the way I have designed it.
-- Edited by TimTim on Thursday 7th of August 2025 08:25:06 PM
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:33 PM Aug 7, 2025
Is AS3001.2 a legal requirement? - AUSMOTION - High Quality Vehicle Accessories In the ACT, compliance with AS3000:2018 is mandated by the Electricity Safety Act 1971 Australian Capital Territory and regulation Electricity Safety Regulation 2004 Australian Capital Territory. This means that compliance with AS3000:2018 in the ACT is a legal requirement.
Clause 7.8.2.3 of AS3000:2018 states that a transportable installation that can be connected to a 230V mains supply must comply with AS3001.2
Therefore, modifications and new work performed on Davids caravan must legally comply with AS3001.2
Electrical installations in Queensland must comply with Electrical Safety Regulation 2013 which, mandates compliance with AS3000:2018
Because both the LandCruiser and caravan are now part of a connectable installation theyre a Special Electrical Installation and the entire dual battery system in the caravan and LandCruiser canopy must comply with both AS3000:2018 and AS3001.
Cheers,
Peter
TimTim said
10:43 PM Aug 7, 2025
Burt65 wrote:
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Overload and short circuit protection of PV wiring is required as per the new version of "AS/NZS 3001.2 Electrical Installations", but is not retrospective. Typically that is achieved using a circuit breaker. Cheers, Peter
You are 100% correct. And this also DO apply to RV..
Perhaps I used the wrong term. Instead of Law, I should have said "to make it Legal".
If the qualified installer doesn't want to lose his/her licence and if in the event of a fire, you want to get paid, then the Circuit breaker SHALL be there!
Unfortunately, all the new standard included in the AS?NZS 5033:2021 are not optional for professional installer of solar system in RV, they are actually enforced.
Off course if you do your own installation you can do as you wish, unless the vehicle has to be re-registered as a motorhome (as in a new conversion), in which case the electrician will have to confirm that you have circuit breakers for your solar installation. There is no escape, unless the electrician is a moron and he doesn't know the latest requirements..
As per VSG5 - Converting a vehicle into a motorhome page 6:
Page 6 of 9 201603-0305 Vehicle Standards Guide 5 Converting a vehicle into a motorhome www.nhvr.gov.au Electrical Where electrical systems are capable of being connected to mains electricity, electrical installations and connections must be carried out by a licensed electrician and the motorhome must contain an Electrical Safety Certificate showing compliance with Australian Standards AS/NZS3000 and AS/NZS3001. All other electrical wiring must be done in accordance with the Heavy Vehicle (Vehicle Standards) National Regulation, Schedule 2, Part 2, Section 17. If you are installing a solar panel or solar generated electricity you will need to comply with the Australian Standard AS/NZ 5033. The NHVR recommends you engage the services of a licensed electrician to do this.
I didn't mean to start an argument by using the word law, but the fact is that, you should have circuit breakers to make your own installation safer and up to the latest standard..
-- Edited by Burt65 on Sunday 13th of July 2025 11:24:11 AM
-- Edited by Burt65 on Sunday 13th of July 2025 11:38:48 AM
-- Edited by Burt65 on Sunday 13th of July 2025 11:48:11 AM
If something is to be made legal then there has to be a law.
It is interesting that people post that something is not retrospective yet are unable to provide an authoritative link to back up their statement.
These first 3 links posted are what we call non authoritative links. The information is copied from somewhere posted on the net and then other web sites follow. They usually have no date and do not provide links to the so called legislation. They just sit there and some people take the information as gospel.
Interestingly, the Caravan Industry Association of Australia had a web page with similar information however the changes in legislation they thought would happen did not eventuate and the page has been removed.
Next we have links to the www.nhvr.gov.au which is the National Heavy Vehicles Register. Now 99% of us are not driving heavy vehicles so we can discount that and leave it to the people that do.
VSG5 or Vehicle Standards Guide 5 is a guide and not legislation. It is just a guide and again for heavy vehicles. Vehicles and trailers over 4.5t have been discussed before as we know there is different requirements under the legislation for them.
The Road Vehicles Standards Act sets out the requirements for 99% of us and VBS1 (Version 6) which is written under the Commonwealth Australian Design Rules and was amended in August last year, still calls up AS/NZ 3001:2008. There are no requirements for PV systems in that Standard and there is no requirement for an isolation switch. That is the reason why many caravan manufacturers are not putting isolation switches in.
'7.3 Other electrical systems Electrical installations on a trailer that are intended for connection to an AC power system other than that of the tow vehicle must comply with Australian Standard AS/NZS 3001:2008 Electrical installations Transportable structures and vehicles including their site supplies.'
Lets not conflate the discussion with circuit breakers and fuses and protection of circuits as this is about a temporary stop to solar panels.
So again.....What law?
Corndoggy said
01:07 PM Nov 8, 2025
So how do my portable panels fit into all of this? I'm still connecting solar into a portable relocatable building. If it applies every portable panel sold should come with an isolator to make it "legal". Every time I connect my panels could be considered as a new installation or an alteration of the system.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Saturday 8th of November 2025 01:11:06 PM
Ben Taxyl said
09:12 AM Nov 9, 2025
Peter, if that is the case, why is an Electrical Certificate not required for the car or caravan in Queensland?
So, what you are saying is that, if you do a new solar installation today in your vehicle, you are not going to follow the AUS/NZ Safety Standard, because they are continually changing, therefore you don't see either the point or the need for you to following them?!?
I think you just proved my point of why we had to have Safety Standard..
No!
You implied that people with common sense would upgrade even if an Australian Standard was not retrospective.
What I'm stating is that every house you have lived in or currently living in has been subject to changes under legislation that include Australian Standards involving safety changes that have far greater risk possibilities than not having a cut off switch on a caravan ELV solar system. Yet you do not upgrade your home to comply with those changes because they are not retrospective and you, like the majority of people, probably wouldn't even know what they are.
Your home, and in fact every building in Australia was or, should of been built, to the applicable Standards at that time just because legislation and Australian Standards change it does not make those building 'against the law' nor are they 'not legal'.
Safety Standard....do you have any statistics on the deaths, serious injuries or damage, caused by people not having a cut off switch on caravan or motor home?
Now i wonder if my portable panels require a cut off switch too
.
-- Edited by TimTim on Wednesday 16th of July 2025 10:30:53 AM
I definitely do!
If you understand what a Circuit Breaker is for, especially in a vehicle where the wiring is constantly subject to movements and abrasions, you can see the improved safety in having a Circuit break going off, instead of having a wire melting and starting a fire..
Why do you think that every other single wire, already installed in a vehicle, has it own fuse?!? Do you think the manufacturers are stupid?!?
It is not rocket science! Just common sense.. To avoid melting or overheating of wires, we simply use a sacrificial fuse. In a solar installation, it is no different. It took a while for the common sense to catch up, but it is here now..
Again, as individuals, we all have a choice. Honestly, if your vehicle does catch fire (and I hope it never will), because of an unprotected wire, it is not going to make any difference in my life. All it does, it makes the AS/NZ safety standard paying attention, and change the rules. And that's exactly what has already happened.. You are coming to the party a bit too late..
I understand what a circuit breaker and a fuse is so don't try and conflate the argument when we are talking about a switch. I have a switch on a section of my system and it provides no protection what so ever when it is on and there is current running through the circuit.
There is no "rule" and in another topic you posted that it is law when the Australian Standard is not even referenced in legislation. As I said you haven't upgraded the safety features in your home to meet the latest Standards yet you are here telling people that they need to have a disconnect switch on their solar panels.
It is up to each individual whether they feel they need a switch or not based on their system as there in no law and no rule. As for my system, is it safe? Yes. Do I need a switch? No. Simply because of the way I have designed it.
-- Edited by TimTim on Thursday 7th of August 2025 08:25:06 PM
Is AS3001.2 a legal requirement? - AUSMOTION - High Quality Vehicle Accessories
Electrical installations in Queensland must comply with Electrical Safety Regulation 2013 which, mandates compliance with AS3000:2018
Because both the LandCruiser and caravan are now part of a connectable installation theyre a Special Electrical Installation and the entire dual battery system in the caravan and LandCruiser canopy must comply with both AS3000:2018 and AS3001.
Cheers,
Peter
If something is to be made legal then there has to be a law.
It is interesting that people post that something is not retrospective yet are unable to provide an authoritative link to back up their statement.
So let's look at this 'LAW'
https://www.caravanrvcamping.com.au/new-caravan-industry-electrical-standards-november-2023
https://www.redarcelectronics.com/au/discover/new-caravan-standards/
https://lifepo4.com.au/as-nzs3001-22022-electrical-system-safety-in-rvs-caravans-motor-homes-and-camper-trailers/
These first 3 links posted are what we call non authoritative links. The information is copied from somewhere posted on the net and then other web sites follow. They usually have no date and do not provide links to the so called legislation. They just sit there and some people take the information as gospel.
Interestingly, the Caravan Industry Association of Australia had a web page with similar information however the changes in legislation they thought would happen did not eventuate and the page has been removed.
Next we have links to the www.nhvr.gov.au which is the National Heavy Vehicles Register. Now 99% of us are not driving heavy vehicles so we can discount that and leave it to the people that do.
VSG5 or Vehicle Standards Guide 5 is a guide and not legislation. It is just a guide and again for heavy vehicles. Vehicles and trailers over 4.5t have been discussed before as we know there is different requirements under the legislation for them.
The Road Vehicles Standards Act sets out the requirements for 99% of us and VBS1 (Version 6) which is written under the Commonwealth Australian Design Rules and was amended in August last year, still calls up AS/NZ 3001:2008. There are no requirements for PV systems in that Standard and there is no requirement for an isolation switch. That is the reason why many caravan manufacturers are not putting isolation switches in.
'7.3 Other electrical systems
Electrical installations on a trailer that are intended for connection to an AC power system other than that of the tow
vehicle must comply with Australian Standard AS/NZS 3001:2008 Electrical installations Transportable structures and
vehicles including their site supplies.'
Lets not conflate the discussion with circuit breakers and fuses and protection of circuits as this is about a temporary stop to solar panels.
So again.....What law?
So how do my portable panels fit into all of this? I'm still connecting solar into a portable relocatable building. If it applies every portable panel sold should come with an isolator to make it "legal". Every time I connect my panels could be considered as a new installation or an alteration of the system.
-- Edited by Corndoggy on Saturday 8th of November 2025 01:11:06 PM
Peter, if that is the case, why is an Electrical Certificate not required for the car or caravan in Queensland?
Curious, that's all. Cheers, Ben.