EVs are far more expensive & the tax is being paid up front on the purchase of the car. A bit like stamp duty on property.
Oh really!
I dont think any govt will forego fuel tax and GST that they are currently collecting.
The fuel tax currently is $0.442 cpl and with a temporary discount it is $0.221 cpl.
On a rough average motorists are paying $570 per year in fuel tax plus the GST. Today diesel at my corner servo is $2.35 cpl so add another $300 per year for GST.
A similar figure will have to be collected on vehicle electricity to even balance the economy and for the status quo to remain equal.
I dont believe any govt will absorb this cost.
Ivan 01 said
09:34 AM Jun 27, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
Ivan 01 wrote:
I also believe from experience that when we shop with a female we may be in that shopping centre for 2 plus hours.
Decades ago I very quickly learnt not to shop with females.
So to solve the problem of the EV being parked for two hours at a charging station outlet we just ban women from going to the shops.
Ivan 01 said
09:42 AM Jun 27, 2022
Kebbin wrote:
Servo's will be more than EV charging points, Hydrogen will also be in the mix and maybe even replacement batteries in the less expensive cars as well as motorbikes. Restaurants & Cafes, car washes would be another along with petrol & diesel for a fair while yet. So no need to panic Gundog it may never affect you except in price, that may go thru the roof and give a few Boomers early exits.
Servos in their current form will generally not have the room to accomodate many cars in the process of charging and waiting for charging.
I didnt think that anyone was in a panic, but more along the lines of discussing whether the current layout of servos as we know them wont be practical in the future if the majority of folk in Australia are driving EVs in 10 years.
Any increase in prices does not only affect Boomers as you call them, it affects all consumers who are buying that commodity.
smwhiskey said
10:05 AM Jun 27, 2022
Ivan 01 wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
EVs are far more expensive & the tax is being paid up front on the purchase of the car. A bit like stamp duty on property.
Oh really!
I dont think any govt will forego fuel tax and GST that they are currently collecting.
The fuel tax currently is $0.442 cpl and with a temporary discount it is $0.221 cpl.
On a rough average motorists are paying $570 per year in fuel tax plus the GST. Today diesel at my corner servo is $2.35 cpl so add another $300 per year for GST.
A similar figure will have to be collected on vehicle electricity to even balance the economy and for the status quo to remain equal.
I dont believe any govt will absorb this cost.
They're not even forgoing the revenue. From memory at least 2 states (Vic and SA) have created a new per km tax for electric cars. Given the Australian political solution to any problem is Tax, Fine or levy, I won't be entirely surprised if it gets extended to ICE powered vehicles and is on top of the existing fuel excise. :(
Simon
DMaxer said
10:11 AM Jun 27, 2022
I imagine that over a century ago there would have been people lying awake at night wondering what will happen if the Cobb and Co coach depot shut down. Private enterprise and the free market are miles ahead on this one and I imagine have already solved half the problems we haven't even thought about yet.
I read an article the other day where Andrew Forrest from Fortescue Metals is presently overseas lining up his new fleet of electric dump trucks and earth movers for his mining operation. Apparently he is having the bodies built but is going to manufacture the engines and drive trains himself through his own operations and then on sell the surplus to other mining companies. I don't think he is too concerned about whether they will still be selling pies at the local servo or how long it will take to charge up an EV. He seems to think that is not an issue.
dogbox said
10:18 AM Jun 27, 2022
smwhiskey wrote:
Ivan 01 wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
EVs are far more expensive & the tax is being paid up front on the purchase of the car. A bit like stamp duty on property.
Oh really!
I dont think any govt will forego fuel tax and GST that they are currently collecting.
The fuel tax currently is $0.442 cpl and with a temporary discount it is $0.221 cpl.
On a rough average motorists are paying $570 per year in fuel tax plus the GST. Today diesel at my corner servo is $2.35 cpl so add another $300 per year for GST.
A similar figure will have to be collected on vehicle electricity to even balance the economy and for the status quo to remain equal.
I dont believe any govt will absorb this cost.
They're not even forgoing the revenue. From memory at least 2 states (Vic and SA) have created a new per km tax for electric cars. Given the Australian political solution to any problem is Tax, Fine or levy, I won't be entirely surprised if it gets extended to ICE powered vehicles and is on top of the existing fuel excise. :(
Simon
are we still not paying john howards 3x3 to fix all the national hyways
peter67 said
10:23 AM Jun 27, 2022
DMaxer wrote:
I imagine that over a century ago there would have been people lying awake at night wondering what will happen if the Cobb and Co coach depot shut down. Private enterprise and the free market are miles ahead on this one and I imagine have already solved half the problems we haven't even thought about yet.
I read an article the other day where Andrew Forrest from Fortescue Metals is presently overseas lining up his new fleet of electric dump trucks and earth movers for his mining operation. Apparently he is having the bodies built but is going to manufacture the engines and drive trains himself through his own operations and then on sell the surplus to other mining companies. I don't think he is too concerned about whether they will still be selling pies at the local servo or how long it will take to charge up an EV. He seems to think that is not an issue.
Given how annoying reverse beeper warnings are on commercial vehicles, how are they going to avoid flattening heaps of workers with the new silent vehicles?
Whenarewethere said
10:34 AM Jun 27, 2022
There are a lot of EVs in my area, you can clearly hear them from their tyre noise. Most ICE are very quiet these days due to smaller engine & turbo.
Ivan 01 said
10:39 AM Jun 27, 2022
Twiggy is such a kind man and a very good businessman.
We should all be proud that he is running such a large mining operation in Australia. Having a clean green operation helps to take away from the fact that he is mining iron ore.
It is a shame that he is overseas buying equipment. At least part of those machines might be made here. That is another topic.
He is a very astute in business and even though of his support for EV equipment, I dont think Andrew Forrest will be opening a chain of EV charging stations.
He is in business to make money.
I think at any time we have all laid awake at night solving *mountainous* problems.
In my case my thoughts have never ever included refuelling any vehicle including how we will cope with the new technology.
I am sure it will all work out, after all we are Aussies.
I would like just one representative from the support for EVs group to come forward an clarify it all for us.
I dont think that points raised on this forum are in the, not to be discussed, basket.
It concerns me that we are being forced with the uptake of all these new green solutions and worse still, it appears that these changes are under the rules of a set timeline.
If all these changes are compulsory to all of us then I think we are entitled to be advised of a plan.
I have little faith in the ability of any of our govts to get this right.
According to all reports, if we started today, it will take ten years for any type of power station to be built.
Maybe the big miners we have in this country could help to build a couple of power stations. They might be better business managers.
Mmmm! The market is there, I wonder why they dont want to get involved.
And still no one addresses the tax we will all pay for electricity in the future.
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:43 PM Jun 27, 2022
Gundog wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Service stations will have to install rapid EV chargers if they want to survive. There is a great opportunity for the service stations to take advantage of the captive audience for the 20 minutes or more whilst people wait for their EVs to be charged.
Buzz you will go broke real quick, say $20 for a 20minute recharge, that's $60 an hour, $720 for 12 hours and that's if you had a 100% usage, wages electricity etc etc
Food and drinks is the obvious one as long as the food is of reasonable quality. Drivers will bypass the poorer quality food options and stop to charge their EVs at the better food options.
The popular option is one of the big fast food companies.
There's also the opportunity to provide services such as WiFi, phone charging stations, Netflix type services, et cetera. People will take the opportunity of having to wait for their EVs to be charged to catch up on their social media and show watching using their phones.
No money to be made from, all those things can be done in your car while recharging.
There may even be shower and of course toilet services. Dunno points and water refills will attract caravans and motorhomes. It's a great opportunity as long as service station owners see those opportunities.
That would be fantastic free water fills, empty you dunny, go and take a shower all free, and then drive off without spending a cent, yeah that's going to be profitable.
Did anybody say the services were free?
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:58 PM Jun 27, 2022
DMaxer wrote:
I imagine that over a century ago there would have been people lying awake at night wondering what will happen if the Cobb and Co coach depot shut down. Private enterprise and the free market are miles ahead on this one and I imagine have already solved half the problems we haven't even thought about yet.
I read an article the other day where Andrew Forrest from Fortescue Metals is presently overseas lining up his new fleet of electric dump trucks and earth movers for his mining operation. Apparently he is having the bodies built but is going to manufacture the engines and drive trains himself through his own operations and then on sell the surplus to other mining companies. I don't think he is too concerned about whether they will still be selling pies at the local servo or how long it will take to charge up an EV. He seems to think that is not an issue.
Yes. Things will change, hopefully for the better. There will always be those who want to 'keep banging those rocks together'. A dying breed I'd imagine.
KevinJ said
01:18 PM Jun 27, 2022
How will it work if they put the charging station in a shooping precinct? You turn up to do some shopping while the car is charging. 20 or 30 minutes after you arrive, the car is fully charged but you are still shopping 2 or 3 hours later. 2.5 hours of the charging station occupied which someone else can't use. A bit like laundromats.
Tony Bev said
01:41 PM Jun 27, 2022
I believe that service stations, as we know them today, will change
My reasoning is that, in the past before vehicles became more fuel efficient, I remember more service stations
As we drive through the the smaller towns, we can see where closed down service stations, use to be
They probably closed down due to lack of patronage/profit
I did read (many years ago), that the main oil companies had agreed which service stations would close down, to keep the status quo
In my home town, there are a few EV charging points, but none of them are at a service station site
DMaxer said
01:41 PM Jun 27, 2022
But what if..but what if none of these issues eventuate. What if there are people out there who know more than those who are on caravan forums death riding the fast approaching future of transportation.
Whenarewethere said
01:44 PM Jun 27, 2022
I know pretty much how long my auxiliary batteries take to charge. I don't bother to look at the gauges anymore. A car is the same as a washing machine, it tells you how long.
Are We Lost said
01:59 PM Jun 27, 2022
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Gundog wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Service stations will have to install rapid EV chargers if they want to survive. There is a great opportunity for the service stations to take advantage of the captive audience for the 20 minutes or more whilst people wait for their EVs to be charged.
Buzz you will go broke real quick, say $20 for a 20minute recharge, that's $60 an hour, $720 for 12 hours and that's if you had a 100% usage, wages electricity etc etc
Food and drinks is the obvious one as long as the food is of reasonable quality. Drivers will bypass the poorer quality food options and stop to charge their EVs at the better food options.
The popular option is one of the big fast food companies.
There's also the opportunity to provide services such as WiFi, phone charging stations, Netflix type services, et cetera. People will take the opportunity of having to wait for their EVs to be charged to catch up on their social media and show watching using their phones.
No money to be made from, all those things can be done in your car while recharging.
There may even be shower and of course toilet services. Dunno points and water refills will attract caravans and motorhomes. It's a great opportunity as long as service station owners see those opportunities.
That would be fantastic free water fills, empty you dunny, go and take a shower all free, and then drive off without spending a cent, yeah that's going to be profitable.
Did anybody say the services were free?
Sorry Buzz but the temptation was too great ..... I have to use your words from another post ....
"Why do you keep on concentrating on one tiny little bit of the article"
smwhiskey said
02:35 PM Jun 27, 2022
DMaxer wrote:
What if there are people out there who know more than those who are on caravan forums death riding the fast approaching future of transportation.
Well, I'm waiting for them to step up. Can't see it happening in the near future. Too many self-proclaimed "experts" will shout them down from the loudest media outlet they can find and tell them how wrong they are.
Simon
Whenarewethere said
02:40 PM Jun 27, 2022
A charger is a carrot when you want people to buy your carrots.
Oh really!
I dont think any govt will forego fuel tax and GST that they are currently collecting.
The fuel tax currently is $0.442 cpl and with a temporary discount it is $0.221 cpl.
On a rough average motorists are paying $570 per year in fuel tax plus the GST. Today diesel at my corner servo is $2.35 cpl so add another $300 per year for GST.
A similar figure will have to be collected on vehicle electricity to even balance the economy and for the status quo to remain equal.
I dont believe any govt will absorb this cost.
So to solve the problem of the EV being parked for two hours at a charging station outlet we just ban women from going to the shops.
Servos in their current form will generally not have the room to accomodate many cars in the process of charging and waiting for charging.
I didnt think that anyone was in a panic, but more along the lines of discussing whether the current layout of servos as we know them wont be practical in the future if the majority of folk in Australia are driving EVs in 10 years.
Any increase in prices does not only affect Boomers as you call them, it affects all consumers who are buying that commodity.
They're not even forgoing the revenue. From memory at least 2 states (Vic and SA) have created a new per km tax for electric cars. Given the Australian political solution to any problem is Tax, Fine or levy, I won't be entirely surprised if it gets extended to ICE powered vehicles and is on top of the existing fuel excise. :(
Simon
I imagine that over a century ago there would have been people lying awake at night wondering what will happen if the Cobb and Co coach depot shut down. Private enterprise and the free market are miles ahead on this one and I imagine have already solved half the problems we haven't even thought about yet.
I read an article the other day where Andrew Forrest from Fortescue Metals is presently overseas lining up his new fleet of electric dump trucks and earth movers for his mining operation. Apparently he is having the bodies built but is going to manufacture the engines and drive trains himself through his own operations and then on sell the surplus to other mining companies. I don't think he is too concerned about whether they will still be selling pies at the local servo or how long it will take to charge up an EV. He seems to think that is not an issue.
are we still not paying john howards 3x3 to fix all the national hyways
Given how annoying reverse beeper warnings are on commercial vehicles, how are they going to avoid flattening heaps of workers with the new silent vehicles?
There are a lot of EVs in my area, you can clearly hear them from their tyre noise. Most ICE are very quiet these days due to smaller engine & turbo.
We should all be proud that he is running such a large mining operation in Australia. Having a clean green operation helps to take away from the fact that he is mining iron ore.
It is a shame that he is overseas buying equipment. At least part of those machines might be made here. That is another topic.
He is a very astute in business and even though of his support for EV equipment, I dont think Andrew Forrest will be opening a chain of EV charging stations.
He is in business to make money.
I think at any time we have all laid awake at night solving *mountainous* problems.
In my case my thoughts have never ever included refuelling any vehicle including how we will cope with the new technology.
I am sure it will all work out, after all we are Aussies.
I would like just one representative from the support for EVs group to come forward an clarify it all for us.
I dont think that points raised on this forum are in the, not to be discussed, basket.
It concerns me that we are being forced with the uptake of all these new green solutions and worse still, it appears that these changes are under the rules of a set timeline.
If all these changes are compulsory to all of us then I think we are entitled to be advised of a plan.
I have little faith in the ability of any of our govts to get this right.
According to all reports, if we started today, it will take ten years for any type of power station to be built.
Maybe the big miners we have in this country could help to build a couple of power stations. They might be better business managers.
Mmmm! The market is there, I wonder why they dont want to get involved.
And still no one addresses the tax we will all pay for electricity in the future.
Did anybody say the services were free?
Yes. Things will change, hopefully for the better. There will always be those who want to 'keep banging those rocks together'. A dying breed I'd imagine.
How will it work if they put the charging station in a shooping precinct? You turn up to do some shopping while the car is charging. 20 or 30 minutes after you arrive, the car is fully charged but you are still shopping 2 or 3 hours later. 2.5 hours of the charging station occupied which someone else can't use. A bit like laundromats.
My reasoning is that, in the past before vehicles became more fuel efficient, I remember more service stations
As we drive through the the smaller towns, we can see where closed down service stations, use to be
They probably closed down due to lack of patronage/profit
I did read (many years ago), that the main oil companies had agreed which service stations would close down, to keep the status quo
In my home town, there are a few EV charging points, but none of them are at a service station site
I know pretty much how long my auxiliary batteries take to charge. I don't bother to look at the gauges anymore. A car is the same as a washing machine, it tells you how long.
Sorry Buzz but the temptation was too great ..... I have to use your words from another post ....
"Why do you keep on concentrating on one tiny little bit of the article"
Well, I'm waiting for them to step up. Can't see it happening in the near future. Too many self-proclaimed "experts" will shout them down from the loudest media outlet they can find and tell them how wrong they are.
Simon
A charger is a carrot when you want people to buy your carrots.