Attached is the Caravan Compliance plate photo as requested.
Hmmm.Don't know how Jayco can suggest a MAXIMUM ball weight that is only around 7% of ATM when the generally accepted figure for safe towing is 10%.The towball weight at tare is established by simply deducting the GTM from the ATM and means nothing,but having an axle capacity of 3333kg,and loading to that figure,leaves towball weight of only 42kg? Montie,our resident RV dealer who knows all about weights after many years in the industry may be able to offer advice.Good luck.Cheers
This was just something Jayco did at one stage which made very little sense. Some owners were successful in getting the max ball loading removed by Jayco, others weren't.
It basically means that you cannot safely load the van to it's maximum ATM.
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:20 PM Jan 10, 2022
Ball weight is only a small part of caravan stability.
7% for a van that has low yaw inertia is plenty.
Put too much weight at the ends of the van and you will have a problem even with 10% ball weight.
Cheers,
Peter
montie said
12:37 PM Jan 10, 2022
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Ball weight is only a small part of caravan stability. 7% for a van that has low yaw inertia is plenty. Put too much weight at the ends of the van and you will have a problem even with 10% ball weight. Cheers, Peter
Agreed, but there is a high possibility if that van is loaded to it's maximum ATM the measured ball weight will exceed the plated rating.
Are We Lost said
02:55 PM Jan 10, 2022
..... so to fix that ball overloading some will find the obvious solution is to move some weight to the back of the van.
"I will relocate one of the water tanks towards the back and mount two spare wheels and a toolbox on the back". "Washing machine at the back? Sure. It helps take weight off the towball"
Now the problem is much worse for stability.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Monday 10th of January 2022 02:58:34 PM
Derek Barnes said
08:25 AM Jan 11, 2022
How about a Patrol Y62 possibly with upgraded GVM? Would it ever be able to safely tow a 3375kg van?
Just interested.
travelyounger said
04:28 PM Jan 11, 2022
Derek Barnes wrote:
How about a Patrol Y62 possibly with upgraded GVM? Would it ever be able to safely tow a 3375kg van?
Just interested.
Hi I tow a heavier van than yours with the 430 nm 2017 dmax .It does do it hard on those big long hills but overall it has no problem towing in all other conditions they never were built to be race cars but the good thing is they can be tuned or chipped to get up to 30% more power and better economy although you could void your warranty with Izuzu.
I personally not recommend the mux to pull that size van a heavier tug would be more suitable .Tug should weigh near to your vans weight when loaded and taking into account your tow ball weight on car
Cheers
yobarr said
11:30 AM Jan 12, 2022
Derek Barnes wrote:
How about a Patrol Y62 possibly with upgraded GVM? Would it ever be able to safely tow a 3375kg van?
Just interested.
No need to upgrade GVM,Derek,as that car has GCM of 7000kg,I believe.With perfect loading you can safely tow a 3500kg ATM van,reaching 6520kg GCM,dependent on year of manufacture,with 1340kg on front axle,2030kg on rear axle of car and 3150kg GTM,assuming the generally accepted 10% (350kg) towball weight.Good car,big,powerful and luxurious,but being petrol is a minus,in my opinion.Cheers
BDE said
06:44 PM Sep 27, 2022
KevinJ wrote:
As an owner of a 2020 MUX, I can say that it tows very well with up to about 2500 KG though I normally drive at between 80 KM/H and 90 KM/H which probably helps. It has heaps of grunt for what I tow with power to spare. Very well balanced and feels very safe.
I believe the new model has a redesigned engine so I can't comment on that but it may perform better.
From a science point of view though, it looks like you will be well and truly over loaded and well and truly out of safe TBW ratio and GVM to GTM ratio.
I have attached a spreadsheet with some figures for you. You can play with the numbers yourself. See the "Load calculator" TAB. See the "Instructions" TAB to see how it all works.
For the MUX specs on the "Tugs and Vans" TAB, the following were taken from the Isuzu web site:
Kerb weight, Max Payload, Max TBW, Fuel, GVM, Braked Trailer, GCM, Wheelbase, Max Front Axle, Max Rear Axle
The other MUX specs on the "Tugs and Vans" TAB, I have taken from my own vehicle or estimated.
For the Van specs, I have used your numbers for:
Tare, ATM, GTM
The other van specs on the "Tugs and Vans" TAB, I have estimated.
Either way, you should get "Actuals" from a weighbridge.
Hi Kevin
In your load calculator spreadsheet (Tugs and Vans Tab), can you explain why the sum of the "Empty Rear Axle" and "Empty Front Axle" is greater than the overall Kerb Weight?
I am trying to establish front and rear axle kerb weights for my tow vehicle (Ford Everest) and trying to get my head around the calculations. Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Phil
KevinJ said
07:14 PM Sep 27, 2022
BDE wrote:
KevinJ wrote:
As an owner of a 2020 MUX, I can say that it tows very well with up to about 2500 KG though I normally drive at between 80 KM/H and 90 KM/H which probably helps. It has heaps of grunt for what I tow with power to spare. Very well balanced and feels very safe.
I believe the new model has a redesigned engine so I can't comment on that but it may perform better.
From a science point of view though, it looks like you will be well and truly over loaded and well and truly out of safe TBW ratio and GVM to GTM ratio.
I have attached a spreadsheet with some figures for you. You can play with the numbers yourself. See the "Load calculator" TAB. See the "Instructions" TAB to see how it all works.
For the MUX specs on the "Tugs and Vans" TAB, the following were taken from the Isuzu web site:
Kerb weight, Max Payload, Max TBW, Fuel, GVM, Braked Trailer, GCM, Wheelbase, Max Front Axle, Max Rear Axle
The other MUX specs on the "Tugs and Vans" TAB, I have taken from my own vehicle or estimated.
For the Van specs, I have used your numbers for:
Tare, ATM, GTM
The other van specs on the "Tugs and Vans" TAB, I have estimated.
Either way, you should get "Actuals" from a weighbridge.
Hi Kevin
In your load calculator spreadsheet (Tugs and Vans Tab), can you explain why the sum of the "Empty Rear Axle" and "Empty Front Axle" is greater than the overall Kerb Weight?
I am trying to establish front and rear axle kerb weights for my tow vehicle (Ford Everest) and trying to get my head around the calculations. Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Phil
The sum of the Empty Rear Axle plus Empty Front Axle should be equal to the Tare. That said, I have a bit of cosmetic work to do on the calculator regarding heading names. I am going to replace the term "Tare" with "Empty weight" as "Tare" is really meaningless whereas "Empty weight" will mean the empty weight of the vehicle plus 10 litres of fuel as weighed on the weighbridge. The Empty Rear Axle and the Empty Front Axle will also be as weighed on the weighbridge. Given weighbridges normally weigh +/- 20 kgs, the sum should be within that tolerance. Tare means empty when the vehicle left the factory whereas Empty will mean as it left the factory but with bull bars, tow bars and any other permanent extras added. Don't use my numbers in the "Tugs and Vans page of the spreadsheet as they will differ from yours. I'm more than happy to take suggestions to improve the spreadsheet and can talk on the phone if you need more.
This was just something Jayco did at one stage which made very little sense. Some owners were successful in getting the max ball loading removed by Jayco, others weren't.
It basically means that you cannot safely load the van to it's maximum ATM.
7% for a van that has low yaw inertia is plenty.
Put too much weight at the ends of the van and you will have a problem even with 10% ball weight.
Cheers,
Peter
Agreed, but there is a high possibility if that van is loaded to it's maximum ATM the measured ball weight will exceed the plated rating.
..... so to fix that ball overloading some will find the obvious solution is to move some weight to the back of the van.
"I will relocate one of the water tanks towards the back and mount two spare wheels and a toolbox on the back". "Washing machine at the back? Sure. It helps take weight off the towball"
Now the problem is much worse for stability.
-- Edited by Are We Lost on Monday 10th of January 2022 02:58:34 PM
How about a Patrol Y62 possibly with upgraded GVM? Would it ever be able to safely tow a 3375kg van?
Just interested.
Hi I tow a heavier van than yours with the 430 nm 2017 dmax .It does do it hard on those big long hills but overall it has no problem towing in all other conditions they never were built to be race cars but the good thing is they can be tuned or chipped to get up to 30% more power and better economy although you could void your warranty with Izuzu.
I personally not recommend the mux to pull that size van a heavier tug would be more suitable .Tug should weigh near to your vans weight when loaded and taking into account your tow ball weight on car
Cheers
No need to upgrade GVM,Derek,as that car has GCM of 7000kg,I believe.With perfect loading you can safely tow a 3500kg ATM van,reaching 6520kg GCM,dependent on year of manufacture,with 1340kg on front axle,2030kg on rear axle of car and 3150kg GTM,assuming the generally accepted 10% (350kg) towball weight.Good car,big,powerful and luxurious,but being petrol is a minus,in my opinion.Cheers
Hi Kevin
In your load calculator spreadsheet (Tugs and Vans Tab), can you explain why the sum of the "Empty Rear Axle" and "Empty Front Axle" is greater than the overall Kerb Weight?
I am trying to establish front and rear axle kerb weights for my tow vehicle (Ford Everest) and trying to get my head around the calculations. Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Phil
The sum of the Empty Rear Axle plus Empty Front Axle should be equal to the Tare. That said, I have a bit of cosmetic work to do on the calculator regarding heading names. I am going to replace the term "Tare" with "Empty weight" as "Tare" is really meaningless whereas
"Empty weight" will mean the empty weight of the vehicle plus 10 litres of fuel as weighed on the weighbridge. The Empty Rear Axle and the Empty Front Axle will also be as weighed on the weighbridge. Given weighbridges normally weigh +/- 20 kgs, the sum should be within that tolerance. Tare means empty when the vehicle left the factory whereas Empty will mean as it left the factory but with bull bars, tow bars and any other permanent extras added. Don't use my numbers in the "Tugs and Vans page of the spreadsheet as they will differ from yours. I'm more than happy to take suggestions to improve the spreadsheet and can talk on the phone if you need more.