My privacy is very important to me. The big five multinational companies make billions of dollars from data so if they want my data they can pay me for it.
I've locked down my phone so much (no location nor any Google Framework Services) that the QRcode scanner app doesn't work for me in QLD, ACT and TAS. The NSW one worked but not over a period of days. I've complained multiple times but those cowboy coders do nothing about it. If those people developed such an app for me I would not have paid them.
dorian said
12:03 PM Jun 24, 2021
Can I ask those people who have no problem with allowing the government to keep track of their daily activities whether they have disabled privacy settings in their browsers?
I used to be in the camp whose attitude is that any law abiding citizen has nothing to fear from our government, but bitter personal experience has taught me otherwise (long before COVID). At the very outset the government lied to us by telling us that face masks were ineffective against COVID-19, ostensibly to safeguard our health workers at a time when there was insufficient supply, but now these same masks are mandatory. I still believe and act in accordance with the advice of our health professionals, but I don't trust the government at all.
By the way, I always provide my name and phone number at any venue that requires it, even though I don't have a smartphone. It seems to me that anyone who was inadvertently exposed at a COVID hot spot would want to be contacted and alerted to the fact, if only for selfish reasons.
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 24th of June 2021 12:20:07 PM
Possum3 said
01:04 PM Jun 24, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
My privacy is very important to me.
I've locked down my phone so much (no location nor any Google Framework Services)
Buzz, If your cellular telephone is turned on, even for seconds, it's location to closest cell/towers is evident - a mere triangulation from that can/will/does pinpoint your phone's location. Removing apps from your service won't remove your signal - The main reason nefarious persons use "burner" or unregistered phones is that until the ownership is registered, ownership of signal is unknown, although there is still an unique phone identification still being "located" by cell towers, when a phone is activated.
Tony Bev said
03:38 PM Jun 24, 2021
In my opinion
In a normal situation, like many others, I prefer to have my privacy
But...
In this day of a world pandemic, we are not in a normal situation
I regard my health, to be much more important than my privacy
I do not believe that the police having access to where I had been, and at what times, invades my privacy
If by (anyone) having access to the QR codes, it helps my future health, that is OK by me
If the police manage to catch a few crims, especially drug pushers, then I look upon it, as a bonus
Buzz Lightbulb said
05:11 PM Jun 24, 2021
Possum3 wrote:
Buzz, If your cellular telephone is turned on, even for seconds, it's location to closest cell/towers is evident - a mere triangulation from that can/will/does pinpoint your phone's location. Removing apps from your service won't remove your signal - The main reason nefarious persons use "burner" or unregistered phones is that until the ownership is registered, ownership of signal is unknown, although there is still an unique phone identification still being "located" by cell towers, when a phone is activated.
Possum3,
You are right that cell tower location can be determined for my phone but I do not allow any apps to access my location unless I want them to. For example, the open source, privacy assured, 'Magic Earth', navigation app I allow location when I'm navigating.
The police force can get access to the cell tower information but I believe that that information is from the mobile network providers and not via an app.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Friday 25th of June 2021 12:43:00 PM
bgt said
05:38 PM Jun 24, 2021
In many cases the navigation in your car can be downloaded by the authorities. I know Fiat/Chrysler blocked the download at one stage when police asked for it.
There is almost no chance of staying off the radar!!!
Possum3 said
11:00 PM Jun 24, 2021
Buzz, You are correct in your assumption of required Warrant - ICAC made it necessary to obtain prior to actual trawling - and therefore it is so.
Greg 1 said
12:24 AM Jun 25, 2021
For those of you not using the app because you are worried about who is seeing the info and yet you use the paper and pen sign in, have you actually thought about how easy it is for scammers to get your info by quickly taking a photo of the pad pretending they are using the app?
They are doing this and many peoples contact info has been collected by undesirables.
Whenarewethere said
07:44 AM Jun 25, 2021
If one uses a Victron app to monitor your smart solar controller you need to allow it location access.
I have location turned off location for as much as I can, & do searches in remote towns to mininmin the phone guessing where I am.
I don't use Google maps so that is disabled as well.
Also use Kiwi Browser to minimise advertising. It sometimes doesn't work on some websites, but 98% of the time it works well.
You will ultimately be found where you are so get rid of your mobile phone, but it is more the daily crap I try to minimise.
Rob Driver said
10:32 AM Jun 25, 2021
If we all take note of what sites and agencies actually have our personal details then QR codes really fade into insignificance.
The suppliers of Every item we have all bought on line has at the minimum, our name, our address, our telephone number, our email address, sometimes our age, sometimes our marital status, sometimes our credit card details if we have paid over the phone, and the list may go on.
Angie and I went to get our first Covid shot this morning and before being able to get the jab we were required to fill out a form on Australian Govt paperwork stating most of the information I listed above.
Anyone in the chain of people who may handle this information may record and sell it (be it more than likely, illegal to do so ) This could happen even if the company you are supplying the information claim that they do not on-sell your personal info.
Even the site sponsors above would require at least some of this info to be able to process the purchase. At present I see that there is a tracker for sale. They claim that you can access travel information for 12 months.
Reward cards, purchasing raffle tickets particularly on big ticket items, lotteries and memberships for venues with special prize draws and even the dealer or repairer servicing our vehicle or van will all want some of this information.
If, by an unfortunate set of circumstances I was being accused of a crime and by me being a member in a venue or the use of a QR code could prove I was not a participant in that crime, then I would be more than happy for police to access that info.
This information trail is just a part of life wether we like it or not and all we can do is be aware and remain alert.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 25th of June 2021 10:39:22 AM
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 25th of June 2021 10:39:58 AM
Greg 1 said
02:06 PM Jun 25, 2021
On the money Rob.
The government already know more about you than you know yourself.
They can find you if they want you. You are kidding yourself if you think that turning a phone off or not having one is going to stop it.
There are just so many ways that they can track you.
People think that they can outwit the system but everything is now linked to everything else.
The ATO and Centrelink have direct access to all your banking data, super funds data, licensing data and pretty much every transaction you make. If you use any sort of electronic payment or card payment they know instantly where you are.
They know everything you buy or sell a vehicle, boat or caravan and how much.
It is nieve to believe that you can somehow escape the system. The app is just a very small potatoe in the general scheme of things.
bgt said
02:20 PM Jun 25, 2021
Maybe George Orwell is really in charge!!
Sarco Harris said
09:10 PM Jun 25, 2021
No phone and only ever pay cash still "MOSTLY" works.
However, you still need to draw cash periodically so "THEY" still have a rough idea of where you may be.
Businesses still record things. Eg. rego numbers of the vehicle service, prescriptions filled etc.
There is still ever increasing video surveillance, facial recognition and other peoples social media feeds.
If THEY need to THEY will still find you!
Rob Driver said
09:56 PM Jun 25, 2021
Sarco Harris wrote:
No phone and only ever pay cash still "MOSTLY" works.
However, you still need to draw cash periodically so "THEY" still have a rough idea of where you may be.
Businesses still record things. Eg. rego numbers of the vehicle service, prescriptions filled etc.
There is still ever increasing video surveillance, facial recognition and other peoples social media feeds.
If THEY need to THEY will still find you!
Not having a phone does not exempt you from providing information as the need arises for entering many venues requiring the record of who is actually attending a venue or even a business.
You could provide a * Donald Duck* profile but CCTv may bring that undone as well as any responsible person from the venue actually asking you for proof of ID.
In all reality, unless you are a criminal it is just too hard and even if you are a criminal * they * generally know where you are anyway.
If *they* want you *they* will get you.
The very best of crims who manage to evade detection are always let down by someone else within their group of contacts and acquaintances.
As you said, social media will be a major source of general information to any investigator and to anyone wishing to hack your identity.
If we could live in a cave in the bush and survive as a hunter and gatherer with no contact with others including the computers that we all need to participate on this forum, then we may just stay anonymous to the outside world.
I really don't think that this could happen with 99.999% of us unless intricate planning and expediting could be put into place.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 25th of June 2021 09:58:13 PM
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:23 PM Jun 26, 2021
I think some of you are missing the point. Use of the app was supposed to be only for contact tracking for Covid-19. Using the app for any other purpose is contravening that agreement.
Australia has reasonable privacy laws so use of one's information for anything other than the initial purpose is against the law. The trouble is that people don't read the agreement for many apps that they use because they don't care about their privacy or the terms of use are too long. I've refused to use many apps because of those terms of use are, in my opinion, very invasive. Hence, no Google Services Framework at all and no to many of the social media apps.
Tony Bev said
06:07 PM Jun 26, 2021
Hi Buzz Lightbulb
In answer to the below snip
I think some of you are missing the point. Use of the app was supposed to be only for contact tracking for Covid-19. Using the app for any other purpose is contravening that agreement.
You are correct, my gut feeling is that
The West Australian Premier, was jumping up and down, about the police, having access to the QR code
Because if the crims think they are being traced, they will not use the QR code, and could become unknown virus spreaders
My privacy is very important to me. The big five multinational companies make billions of dollars from data so if they want my data they can pay me for it.
I've locked down my phone so much (no location nor any Google Framework Services) that the QRcode scanner app doesn't work for me in QLD, ACT and TAS. The NSW one worked but not over a period of days. I've complained multiple times but those cowboy coders do nothing about it. If those people developed such an app for me I would not have paid them.
Can I ask those people who have no problem with allowing the government to keep track of their daily activities whether they have disabled privacy settings in their browsers?
I used to be in the camp whose attitude is that any law abiding citizen has nothing to fear from our government, but bitter personal experience has taught me otherwise (long before COVID). At the very outset the government lied to us by telling us that face masks were ineffective against COVID-19, ostensibly to safeguard our health workers at a time when there was insufficient supply, but now these same masks are mandatory. I still believe and act in accordance with the advice of our health professionals, but I don't trust the government at all.
By the way, I always provide my name and phone number at any venue that requires it, even though I don't have a smartphone. It seems to me that anyone who was inadvertently exposed at a COVID hot spot would want to be contacted and alerted to the fact, if only for selfish reasons.
-- Edited by dorian on Thursday 24th of June 2021 12:20:07 PM
Buzz, If your cellular telephone is turned on, even for seconds, it's location to closest cell/towers is evident - a mere triangulation from that can/will/does pinpoint your phone's location. Removing apps from your service won't remove your signal - The main reason nefarious persons use "burner" or unregistered phones is that until the ownership is registered, ownership of signal is unknown, although there is still an unique phone identification still being "located" by cell towers, when a phone is activated.
In a normal situation, like many others, I prefer to have my privacy
But...
In this day of a world pandemic, we are not in a normal situation
I regard my health, to be much more important than my privacy
I do not believe that the police having access to where I had been, and at what times, invades my privacy
If by (anyone) having access to the QR codes, it helps my future health, that is OK by me
If the police manage to catch a few crims, especially drug pushers, then I look upon it, as a bonus
Possum3,
You are right that cell tower location can be determined for my phone but I do not allow any apps to access my location unless I want them to. For example, the open source, privacy assured, 'Magic Earth', navigation app I allow location when I'm navigating.
The police force can get access to the cell tower information but I believe that that information is from the mobile network providers and not via an app.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Friday 25th of June 2021 12:43:00 PM
If one uses a Victron app to monitor your smart solar controller you need to allow it location access.
I have location turned off location for as much as I can, & do searches in remote towns to mininmin the phone guessing where I am.
I don't use Google maps so that is disabled as well.
Also use Kiwi Browser to minimise advertising. It sometimes doesn't work on some websites, but 98% of the time it works well.
You will ultimately be found where you are so get rid of your mobile phone, but it is more the daily crap I try to minimise.
If we all take note of what sites and agencies actually have our personal details then QR codes really fade into insignificance.
The suppliers of Every item we have all bought on line has at the minimum, our name, our address, our telephone number, our email address, sometimes our age, sometimes our marital status, sometimes our credit card details if we have paid over the phone, and the list may go on.
Angie and I went to get our first Covid shot this morning and before being able to get the jab we were required to fill out a form on Australian Govt paperwork stating most of the information I listed above.
Anyone in the chain of people who may handle this information may record and sell it (be it more than likely, illegal to do so )
This could happen even if the company you are supplying the information claim that they do not on-sell your personal info.
Even the site sponsors above would require at least some of this info to be able to process the purchase. At present I see that there is a tracker for sale. They claim that you can access travel information for 12 months.
Reward cards, purchasing raffle tickets particularly on big ticket items, lotteries and memberships for venues with special prize draws and even the dealer or repairer servicing our vehicle or van will all want some of this information.
If, by an unfortunate set of circumstances I was being accused of a crime and by me being a member in a venue or the use of a QR code could prove I was not a participant in that crime, then I would be more than happy for police to access that info.
This information trail is just a part of life wether we like it or not and all we can do is be aware and remain alert.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 25th of June 2021 10:39:22 AM
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 25th of June 2021 10:39:58 AM
However, you still need to draw cash periodically so "THEY" still have a rough idea of where you may be.
Businesses still record things. Eg. rego numbers of the vehicle service, prescriptions filled etc.
There is still ever increasing video surveillance, facial recognition and other peoples social media feeds.
If THEY need to THEY will still find you!
Not having a phone does not exempt you from providing information as the need arises for entering many venues requiring the record of who is actually attending a venue or even a business.
You could provide a * Donald Duck* profile but CCTv may bring that undone as well as any responsible person from the venue actually asking you for proof of ID.
In all reality, unless you are a criminal it is just too hard and even if you are a criminal * they * generally know where you are anyway.
If *they* want you *they* will get you.
The very best of crims who manage to evade detection are always let down by someone else within their group of contacts and acquaintances.
As you said, social media will be a major source of general information to any investigator and to anyone wishing to hack your identity.
If we could live in a cave in the bush and survive as a hunter and gatherer with no contact with others including the computers that we all need to participate on this forum, then we may just stay anonymous to the outside world.
I really don't think that this could happen with 99.999% of us unless intricate planning and expediting could be put into place.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Friday 25th of June 2021 09:58:13 PM
I think some of you are missing the point. Use of the app was supposed to be only for contact tracking for Covid-19. Using the app for any other purpose is contravening that agreement.
Australia has reasonable privacy laws so use of one's information for anything other than the initial purpose is against the law. The trouble is that people don't read the agreement for many apps that they use because they don't care about their privacy or the terms of use are too long. I've refused to use many apps because of those terms of use are, in my opinion, very invasive. Hence, no Google Services Framework at all and no to many of the social media apps.
Hi Buzz Lightbulb
In answer to the below snip
You are correct, my gut feeling is that
The West Australian Premier, was jumping up and down, about the police, having access to the QR code
Because if the crims think they are being traced, they will not use the QR code, and could become unknown virus spreaders