Killing people is too quick, the rest of their life is fast enough & while at it all the prison staff could be from the group of people the person finish off. They could do that person slowly!
outlaw40 said
09:51 AM Aug 30, 2020
bgt , why is it obvious that he has a mental condition ? there have been no mention of him being mentally unfit to stand trial . sometimes people are just plain EVIL and no excuses should be made for them .
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Sunday 30th of August 2020 09:52:52 AM
bgt said
10:15 AM Aug 30, 2020
outlaw40 anyone who kills like he did obviously has a mental problem. Many folks considered 'EVIL' could be argued to be mentally ill. ie they don't meet what is considered 'normal' in todays society.
dabbler said
11:33 AM Aug 30, 2020
A few posters have mentioned numbers when advocating a death penalty is appropriate punishment. Things like costs and fatalities. If you're happy with this as a penalty, what about next time ? Where are your upper and lower limits ? This country made a decision to end death penalty as punishment. Want to change that ? Talk to your local polliem
outlaw40 said
12:49 PM Aug 30, 2020
Well bgt thats just your opinion the facts are that the people with the qualifications to make that ruling say he is mentally capable to stand trial . So i stand by my statement . He is just an evel pr!k and should be put down .
rgren2 said
03:45 PM Aug 30, 2020
This really looks like redneck city.
Aus-Kiwi said
10:31 AM Aug 31, 2020
How can we ever get to understand the thinking of people like this ? Its sort of red neck to start with ! Which brings on red neck decisions, discussion !! Where he serves his time imo wont make much difference to him !! I think hell get a hard time here too ? Wander what his upbringing was like ? Not that its an excuse ? As the topic is about serving time here . Its somewhat different to normal crime !! There maybe a singular one off decision made to put him in detention here !! Either was as Kiwi in Aus
Im just happy he is not out on the streets where he can do it again !
Greg 1 said
10:59 AM Aug 31, 2020
In NZ he is most likely to end his life in jail.Over here, the way things seem to go, some idiot will eventually decide to let him out with no consideration for the victims. We see it happen regularly.
Best thing they could do is give him to the victims families for an hour. Problem solvered.
Magnarc said
01:31 PM Aug 31, 2020
I assume that the "redneck" jibe was aimed at those of us who support capital punishment for certain offences???? Maybe this was intended as a "stir"?? Sensible discussion on this topic was taking place until one person decided to make it personal, sadly this occurs far to often on this forum and is of no credit to those who practice this type of put down. If you can't make a sensible case for your cause it might be better to refrain from writing anything at all.
dabbler said
05:41 PM Aug 31, 2020
Perhaps a review of your initial post is in order Magnarc ? There are a couple of posts in this thread with a suggested course of action that is counter to both NZ and Australian law but offer no justification, including your post. While it's unlikely an appeal will eventuate, under NZ law it still possible whether we like it or not. Stringing someone up without regard to legal process (assuming you didn't mean macrame classes) *is* redneck act. Sending them to an Islamic republic without regard to NZ law *is* a redneck act. In no way do I support or approve this idiot's actions but the sum total of our laws are in place to protect everyone including the guilty. We can't and shouldn't cherry pick laws when it suits our beliefs or we are no better than an unfettered, misguided idiot with a weapon.
yobarr said
06:39 PM Aug 31, 2020
dabbler wrote:
Perhaps a review of your initial post is in order Magnarc ? There are a couple of posts in this thread with a suggested course of action that is counter to both NZ and Australian law but offer no justification, including your post. While it's unlikely an appeal will eventuate, under NZ law it still possible whether we like it or not. Stringing someone up without regard to legal process (assuming you didn't mean macrame classes) *is* redneck act. Sending them to an Islamic republic without regard to NZ law *is* a redneck act. In no way do I support or approve this idiot's actions but the sum total of our laws are in place to protect everyone including the guilty. We can't and shouldn't cherry pick laws when it suits our beliefs or we are no better than an unfettered, misguided idiot with a weapon.
Is it possible to appeal a conviction,and sentence,when the accused has pleaded 'guilty'? Cheers
dabbler said
07:27 PM Aug 31, 2020
Yobarr, apparently an appeal is possible but unlikely in this case and I suspect a zealot would welcome the audience more's the pity. But if it's part of a legal system, it shouldn't be bypassed.
Magnarc said
08:23 AM Sep 1, 2020
G'day Doug. My justification for the post is simple. 51 deaths and 49 injured. We also have a person who has plead guilty to all counts and has not used the insanity defence. Putting this monster behind bars carries a risk however small, that, at some later date, someone will find a loophole to have him set free.
I do abide by the laws of the land but that does not mean that I agree with all of them, and I bet that you don't agree with all of them either. I realise that this topic has now become a roundabout and will not change anyones view, so I thank all those who have posted rational contributions and will retire from the fray on this one.
Gundog said
10:07 AM Sep 1, 2020
From my point of view, there should be no provision for any Australian who is imprisioned in an overseas country, to return to Australia to serve out their sentence.
Like Australian media bosses should place an embargo on any reporting of the individual after the conviction and sentencing by the legal process, however there should be no such embargo's on sentences handed down by kangaroo courts like Iran and China.
The death penalty is a very emotive issue, on the surface I support it but I do have reservations how it sould be applied and when.
DMaxer said
10:53 AM Sep 2, 2020
You can appeal after a plea of guilty and sentence Yobarr. If you consider that the penalty that has been imposed is manifestly excessive then an appeal will lie. Whether it is successful is another thing. In relation to an appeal to change your plea that is very difficult. There would have to be exceptional circumstances to allow your guilty plea to be set aside and for the matter to be sent to trial.
In relation to the mental health aspect, the fact that someone has a mental illness is not a defence in itself. It needs to be shown by the defendant that not only did he suffer from a mental illness at the time, but that mental illness took away his ability to understand his actions and be able to form an intent. Gaols are full of people with mental illnesses that have been found guilty.
The death penalty is a pointless exercise in my opinion. There is no factual basis that it acts as a deterent. Murders still occur in countries that have the death penalty, thieving still occurs in countries that cut the hands of thieves, it has no place in modern society.
When sentencing, courts have to apply judicial reasoning. The courts take into account what they call general deterence. The penalty is to reflect to the community the gravity of the offending. They must apply specific deterence. This is to punish the offender and for the offender to be punished and deterred from future offending. There also has to be consideration for the rehabilitation of the offender. It is important that when an offender is released from his custodial sentence that he not be a rescidivist. Discounts also must be given for early pleas of guilty and assistance given to the police or investigating bodies.
Death penalties are just an act of revenge which sanctions the state to murder the offender. It not only has no effect as a deterent but brings the state down to the base level of the offender. It also has the tendency to make martyrs out of some offenders.
This offender, like any other that commits a horrendous crime, will have an hideous existence in gaol. Gaols are not pleasant places no matter what some misinformed people may spruik. I have spent the best part of forty years attending gaols and they are soul destroying. I have seen the effect of a lengthy sentence on prisoners. Their life is over.
Not only will this individual face the daily torment of his sentence, he will be at risk from every inmate and guard that may embrace the faith that he attacked.
Aus-Kiwi said
08:03 PM Sep 2, 2020
Keep in mind he streamed his actions on Face book . I have seen the vid . Gruesome and callous !! He has nothing to appeal!!
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 08:03:55 PM
Killing people is too quick, the rest of their life is fast enough & while at it all the prison staff could be from the group of people the person finish off. They could do that person slowly!
bgt , why is it obvious that he has a mental condition ? there have been no mention of him being mentally unfit to stand trial . sometimes people are just plain EVIL and no excuses should be made for them .
-- Edited by outlaw40 on Sunday 30th of August 2020 09:52:52 AM
Im just happy he is not out on the streets where he can do it again !
I assume that the "redneck" jibe was aimed at those of us who support capital punishment for certain offences???? Maybe this was intended as a "stir"?? Sensible discussion on this topic was taking place until one person decided to make it personal, sadly this occurs far to often on this forum and is of no credit to those who practice this type of put down. If you can't make a sensible case for your cause it might be better to refrain from writing anything at all.
Is it possible to appeal a conviction,and sentence,when the accused has pleaded 'guilty'? Cheers
G'day Doug. My justification for the post is simple. 51 deaths and 49 injured. We also have a person who has plead guilty to all counts and has not used the insanity defence. Putting this monster behind bars carries a risk however small, that, at some later date, someone will find a loophole to have him set free.
I do abide by the laws of the land but that does not mean that I agree with all of them, and I bet that you don't agree with all of them either. I realise that this topic has now become a roundabout and will not change anyones view, so I thank all those who have posted rational contributions and will retire from the fray on this one.
From my point of view, there should be no provision for any Australian who is imprisioned in an overseas country, to return to Australia to serve out their sentence.
Like Australian media bosses should place an embargo on any reporting of the individual after the conviction and sentencing by the legal process, however there should be no such embargo's on sentences handed down by kangaroo courts like Iran and China.
The death penalty is a very emotive issue, on the surface I support it but I do have reservations how it sould be applied and when.
You can appeal after a plea of guilty and sentence Yobarr. If you consider that the penalty that has been imposed is manifestly excessive then an appeal will lie. Whether it is successful is another thing. In relation to an appeal to change your plea that is very difficult. There would have to be exceptional circumstances to allow your guilty plea to be set aside and for the matter to be sent to trial.
In relation to the mental health aspect, the fact that someone has a mental illness is not a defence in itself. It needs to be shown by the defendant that not only did he suffer from a mental illness at the time, but that mental illness took away his ability to understand his actions and be able to form an intent. Gaols are full of people with mental illnesses that have been found guilty.
The death penalty is a pointless exercise in my opinion. There is no factual basis that it acts as a deterent. Murders still occur in countries that have the death penalty, thieving still occurs in countries that cut the hands of thieves, it has no place in modern society.
When sentencing, courts have to apply judicial reasoning. The courts take into account what they call general deterence. The penalty is to reflect to the community the gravity of the offending. They must apply specific deterence. This is to punish the offender and for the offender to be punished and deterred from future offending. There also has to be consideration for the rehabilitation of the offender. It is important that when an offender is released from his custodial sentence that he not be a rescidivist. Discounts also must be given for early pleas of guilty and assistance given to the police or investigating bodies.
Death penalties are just an act of revenge which sanctions the state to murder the offender. It not only has no effect as a deterent but brings the state down to the base level of the offender. It also has the tendency to make martyrs out of some offenders.
This offender, like any other that commits a horrendous crime, will have an hideous existence in gaol. Gaols are not pleasant places no matter what some misinformed people may spruik. I have spent the best part of forty years attending gaols and they are soul destroying. I have seen the effect of a lengthy sentence on prisoners. Their life is over.
Not only will this individual face the daily torment of his sentence, he will be at risk from every inmate and guard that may embrace the faith that he attacked.
Keep in mind he streamed his actions on
Face book . I have seen the vid . Gruesome and callous !! He has nothing to appeal!!
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 2nd of September 2020 08:03:55 PM