Pull ya head in mate and give the guy a break. You can have difference of opinion, this is a democracy, but you don't need to chastise him like you have. Moderator must be asleep?? Ian
Forums are all about people expressing their opinions. That's what a forum is.
We gave our honest opinion, simple really.
If you don't enjoy people posting their opinions don't subscribe to a forum.
montie said
02:41 PM Dec 21, 2018
beiffe wrote:
These councils that cave to the caravan parks take the risk that they drive many people away from the town as many will not stay in these jails.
Beiffe,
Rockhampton CC did not "cave" to the caravan parks association they were ordered to close by the court because the free camping site did not comply with urban regulations.
As a dealer I am all in favour of free or lowcost camping however the reality now is that urban densely populated areas have strict regulatory requirements for such camping grounds which if complied with will render them uneconomical to maintain. In rural areas free or low cost camping is a lot easier because the compliancing requirements are not as strict. When posters refer to "free" they are of course saying it is "free to them", but the reality is that somebody has to pay the insurance and other costs of maintenance. Nothing is free totally.
I think in regional cities like Rockhampton the cost of compliancing and maintenance would far outweigh any economic benefit to the community and rate payers.
beiffe said
03:48 PM Dec 21, 2018
I have no problems with an area that does not want free campers. Actually free camping is a free choice to me, and I support that town where a lot of caravan park patrons come with their supplies from home and half full fuel tanks and after their stay at the park leave and contribute nothing to the town except the money left at the park. When I found and area like this I just put a red ring around it in my camps book and I planned my travels so I did not have to stop for fuel or provisions. I also entered the town in my GPS as an Unfriendly town and when I was about a kilometre from the perimeter it gave me a warning so I did not stop
These same areas are always screaming for volunteers after their disasters and Queensland is very bad as they seem to have their floods etc every year in the same area and they want the nomads etc to come and give their labour for free so it goes both ways. I have no problems with people staying in caravan jails, that is their tight but please dont say we can not have the right to camp and stay where we want when it is legal. If we want to support towns that have the free camps then that is up to us, the same as I never do voluntary work in an area that I know is against free camping and I know a lot of the volunteers are the same, that also is our option.
Kebbin said
03:54 PM Dec 21, 2018
Well put Montie, but it won't appease the self righteous free camper, those that travel from rest area to free camps like Yelgun Calliope and Kershaw. I love a good low cost camp as much as the next traveller but staying at these places would make my head spin, crowded filthy toilets dogs and backpackers all swooning in a cesspit, it would make a good horror movie.
Beiffe, going by your comments I think your more an opportunist than a volunteer, volunteers aren't that tight about accommodation and free meals. And this is just pure spite.
Beiffe wrote ( I am/was involved in a group that help farmers etc after disasters and was involved in the organisation of proposed areas relief camps and was many times advised that any volunteers coming to give their time for free would be required to stay in the caravan park and pay full price. It was a bit of bad luck that their area did not get the proposed base and therefore the farmers got no help in their area.)
-- Edited by Kebbin on Friday 21st of December 2018 04:08:54 PM
-- Edited by Kebbin on Friday 21st of December 2018 04:09:29 PM
Ron-D said
05:02 PM Dec 21, 2018
Were all different DD likes being by himself in the middle of nowhere looking at little birdies and takeing pictures ,two days of that would drive us nuts, we like to be near country towns and going for nice scenic drives,and camped with other people sitting around a nice fire in winter,whos ,whos right ,whos wrong nobody,We like The so called free camps because its a different atmosphere to caravan parks,its not so much a money thing its mainly not paying for cramped sites,paying for things you dont need,there nowhere near as relaxed and social,you dont have much room for rig,in one way they leave caravan parks for dead.
just my opinion....
Dick0 said
05:31 PM Dec 21, 2018
Jeez......
How about a forum at GN for free campers.
Lets have blog space so FREE CAMPERS can communicate and share their experiences over the CP lovers with cash to splash.
Just thinking?
Desert Dweller said
05:36 PM Dec 21, 2018
Ron-D wrote:
Were all different DD likes being by himself in the middle of nowhere looking at little birdies and takeing pictures ,two days of that would drive us nuts, we like to be near country towns and going for nice scenic drives,and camped with other people sitting around a nice fire in winter,whos ,whos right ,whos wrong nobody,We like The so called free camps because its a different atmosphere to caravan parks,its not so much a money thing its mainly not paying for cramped sites,paying for things you dont need,there nowhere near as relaxed and social,you dont have much room for rig,in one way they leave caravan parks for dead.
just my opinion....
Exactly! You're dead right, we enjoy bush camping & nature photography, each to their own.
Sitting around doing bugger all while looking at others doing the same would bore us to snorts, but if they enjoy it good on ém.
We like to keep our brains active in retirement by writing magazine articles, our images are used by travel websites, publications/books & lectures.
When we camp with others we enjoy socializing with them but never bore them by talking about our particular interests.
Not everyone is interested in nature.
We rarely mix with ''bird nerds'' & have many other interests, fishing, bush walking, history, wineries etc.
Free/donation camps are under immense pressure these days due to retirees who may not have ever camped in their lifetime previously, looking for a place to park their ''new toys''.
We reckon that in the future it will all end in tears in the playground, too many people doing it & a lot more to come.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Friday 21st of December 2018 07:09:09 PM
Dick0 said
05:45 PM Dec 21, 2018
Tony Bev wrote:
Swampy42 wrote:
Hi everyone and a merry Christmas to you all
i hope this doesnt come across as political, but it now appears that the caravan parks are lobbying their respective councils, with success, to close down the free camping areas, forcing the caravaners to stay at the parks at ridiculous prices. This has started in Rockhampton and in Tasmania. The caravan industry brings in a lot of cash flow to towns.
Is there anything that us, as a collective group can do to stop this evil behaviour of the caravan parks?
-- Edited by Swampy42 on Thursday 20th of December 2018 11:26:56 AM
I shall try and answer the below part of your question Swampy42, from the angle I am looking at it
Is there anything that us, as a collective group can do to stop this evil behaviour of the caravan parks?
To the best of my knowledge, no, there is nothing we can do, as the legal precedent has been set
For those of us who (for whatever reason), would like to keep the free camps open, in the rural areas
I can only say, do as I do, etc
I really have no idea if the below will work, but I do know, it will be better than doing nothing
Keep the free camp clean
Spend money in the area
Let the local shopkeeper know, that you have spent, or planning to spend some time in their free camp, while/after spending your money
In other words, let the locals see the benifit, of having free camps in their area
Well put Tony!
TheHeaths said
05:52 PM Dec 21, 2018
Beiffe
I want to make comment about the comment aimed at people who use caravan parks, and their supposed lack of local spending.
I don't know where you get your information, but caravan park users spend no less than free campers in the towns where they stay from my observations. In fact I wonder what research you based your inference that they only use supplies brought with them, while free campers buy their supplies from the town they camp in comes from?
I suspect it is based on the misleading belief of free campers that they all spend more dollars, on more things, than others in the towns that they have conned into believeing they are worth more to the locals. My observations would be that free campers in fact buy no more than any others where they stay, and in fact, as they don't want to pay for accomodation, probably spend less. I am yet to meet any traveller who buys more than they need anywhere.
As for your comment that you will not volunteer in locations that do not support free campers, I think that says much more about you, and those like you, than the towns that you avoid. Your choice certainly, but hardly the spirit of volunteering I would have thought.
As with Kebbin, I have no bone to pick with free camping in general terms. We use them as we travel, where they are available, and they suit our route. What I do have a problem with is the increasing expectation that all locations will provide a free camp, and if they don't there is a call to black ball the town, and punish them for daring to exercise exactly what the free camping fraternity claim to want to protect. Freedom of Choice!
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 21st of December 2018 05:57:37 PM
Wanda said
06:03 PM Dec 21, 2018
"Opinions Ian, most of us have one and we're all entitled to respectfully express our own."
yep......." Respectfully"..... that would be nice to see
Ian
The Belmont Bear said
07:50 AM Dec 22, 2018
First I'd like to say that I sit in neither camp I have nothing against those travellers who choose to free camp (legally) and I have nothing against those who mainly stay in CPs. What I do find amusing is that the freedom camping side of the argument take offence at being stereotyped as freeloaders yet have no problem in doing the same thing to the other side referring to CPs as being gaols run by greedy owners and used by weekend warriors, dregs of society etc. At the end of the day it is a personal choice how you travel around this vast country and as DD suggested there is still plenty of bush out there where no one is likely to bug you if you choose the freedom camping option.
I am fortunate to live in an area that is surrounded by a lake, surfing beaches, vineyards, national parks etc. and as far as I know there are no designated freecamping areas. Personally I don't mind travellers who do as AK suggested and find themselves a nice quiet reserve to rest up in for a night as long as they leave the place as they found it. As a rate payer I would have a real issue if all of our public spaces started filling up with longer term freecampers regardless of where they spent their money..
Cheers
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 07:52:51 AM
Wanda said
09:00 AM Dec 22, 2018
Hi BB
If you read the original post by Swampy42, he was just asking a simple question in regards to Caravan Parks lobbying to close some free camps. Nothing wrong with the question and personally from someone who both free camp AND stay and pay at c/parks without complaining about the $$$, its a question that is very relevant today with the huge number of vanners out there on the road.
My Bitch is in the way these "same" people "attack" others while hiding behind their computer showing no respect or decency towards fellow travellers what so ever.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion, very healthy, in most cases, but I think its a reflection on these peoples characters the way in which they reply. Just read DDs first reply post to swampy42, if you think respectful, well, I give in.
We continually here complaints about the "me" generation showing no respect, well guess where they got it from
enough
regards
Ian
Dickodownunder said
09:15 AM Dec 22, 2018
montie wrote:
beiffe wrote:
These councils that cave to the caravan parks take the risk that they drive many people away from the town as many will not stay in these jails.
Beiffe,
Rockhampton CC did not "cave" to the caravan parks association they were ordered to close by the court because the free camping site did not comply with urban regulations.
As a dealer I am all in favour of free or lowcost camping however the reality now is that urban densely populated areas have strict regulatory requirements for such camping grounds which if complied with will render them uneconomical to maintain. In rural areas free or low cost camping is a lot easier because the compliancing requirements are not as strict. When posters refer to "free" they are of course saying it is "free to them", but the reality is that somebody has to pay the insurance and other costs of maintenance. Nothing is free totally.
I think in regional cities like Rockhampton the cost of compliancing and maintenance would far outweigh any economic benefit to the community and rate payers.
You must be getting tired Montie trying to explain the ACTUAL facts.
It is amazing that some continue on with their blinkers firmly mounted against their temples in a blind defence of what they consider is happening to their rite to camp in council reserves.
Belmont Bear has said it accurately but unfortunately there is always
None so blind as those that just dont want to see.
Kebbin said
10:07 AM Dec 22, 2018
Wanda, Desert Dweller has stated his opinion on the matter as we all have but it seems that you do not like opposing opinions, just agree to disagree don't go into attack mode.
What makes an argument volatile is false or misleading information coming into the discussion and continuing along those lines regardless of information received. My opinion only.
montie said
10:13 AM Dec 22, 2018
Wanda wrote:
Hi BB
If you read the original post by Swampy42, he was just asking a simple question in regards to Caravan Parks lobbying to close some free camps. Nothing wrong with the question and personally from someone who both free camp AND stay and pay at c/parks without complaining about the $$$, its a question that is very relevant today with the huge number of vanners out there on the road.
My Bitch is in the way these "same" people "attack" others while hiding behind their computer showing no respect or decency towards fellow travellers what so ever.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion, very healthy, in most cases, but I think its a reflection on these peoples characters the way in which they reply. Just read DDs first reply post to swampy42, if you think respectful, well, I give in. We continually here complaints about the "me" generation showing no respect, well guess where they got it from
enough regards Ian
Wanda,
If any further free camps are closed in urban areas it will be because they are non compliant.
Parks to my knowledge are not "lobbying" anybody but they are however now insisting the "free camps" meet the same strict compliancing regulations that they are required to, which in my view is fair enough. Kershaw Gardens is a perfect example of a Council with double standards where CP's must meet all regulations and the council free camp totally ignores their own compliancing regulations altogether. The Judge made this point in his ruling.
As a dealer I would love to see low cost camping areas everywhere, but the reality now is that urban city areas will find it difficult to provide them. There is no point in blaming CP's, Councils or peoples camping preferences, the reality is they have to be legally compliant or close down.The precedent has been set.
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 10:17:55 AM
blaze said
11:26 AM Dec 22, 2018
I find it a bit weird in town here where a free camp at a local hotel (quiet a big free camp) spend a number of years trying to stop a cv park opening. The cv park finally mounted all the hurdles the free camp put in its way via the local council. So in my local town (rv friendly) we have a caravan park and 2 free camps all well patronised
cheers
blaze
ps
van hooked up and about to set it up 50km away in a cheap nation park run camp $50 per family per week
Santa said
11:32 AM Dec 22, 2018
Wanda wrote:
yep......." Respectfully"..... that would be nice to see
Ian
So! telling someone to "Pull ya head in mate" is respectful.
Phillipn said
12:42 PM Dec 22, 2018
Dickodownunder wrote:
montie wrote:
beiffe wrote:
These councils that cave to the caravan parks take the risk that they drive many people away from the town as many will not stay in these jails.
Beiffe,
Rockhampton CC did not "cave" to the caravan parks association they were ordered to close by the court because the free camping site did not comply with urban regulations.
As a dealer I am all in favour of free or lowcost camping however the reality now is that urban densely populated areas have strict regulatory requirements for such camping grounds which if complied with will render them uneconomical to maintain. In rural areas free or low cost camping is a lot easier because the compliancing requirements are not as strict. When posters refer to "free" they are of course saying it is "free to them", but the reality is that somebody has to pay the insurance and other costs of maintenance. Nothing is free totally.
I think in regional cities like Rockhampton the cost of compliancing and maintenance would far outweigh any economic benefit to the community and rate payers.
You must be getting tired Montie trying to explain the ACTUAL facts.
It is amazing that some continue on with their blinkers firmly mounted against their temples in a blind defence of what they consider is happening to their rite to camp in council reserves.
Belmont Bear has said it accurately but unfortunately there is always
None so blind as those that just dont want to see.
Their would NOT have been a court case, had the caravan parks not pushed the issue.
This storm was started by the caravan park operators. A storm that will hurt the caravan park operators pockets.
Umpie1 said
01:28 PM Dec 22, 2018
Do we really want free camping or should we be asking for low cost camping?
Wanda said
01:29 PM Dec 22, 2018
Montie
I think you are missing my point Montie, as far as the debate over free camps go, I have an opinion BUT are not really discussing the issue at the moment, as you can see from my last posts
"My Bitch" is in the way these "same" people "attack" others while hiding behind their computer showing no respect or decency towards fellow travellers what so ever." Its NOT about a difference of opinion, every one is entitlled to form an opinon, EVEN free campers.
I DO NOT include you in that list of people, I have found your responses, both respectful of others and fair.
The debate over free camps(hate that word) will continue and like all arguments, there are always two sides to each debate. "Some" caravan parks have lobbied councils, not as a group as far as I know, and successful closed some camps.
I have no doubt the majority of travellers use both free camps and c/van parks from time to time. Its the accusations/attacks of some of these clowns when someone mentions "free camps" you get bombarded with being a tight ass, want everything for free etc etc.
regards
Ian
Santa said
01:54 PM Dec 22, 2018
The issue is not with free campers per se, it's the people who feel they entitled to free/stealth camp within towns/cities, they are wrong.
We have a nice area set up as a self contained free camp close by, only service is a tap, no toilets, you guessed it, back packers and vans without toilet facilities are turning it into a crap and toilet paper festooned area few will care to visit in the near future, no wonder they get closed down, as well as being a health hazard they are an unpleasant eye sore.
TheHeaths said
02:33 PM Dec 22, 2018
Funny thing is with the Rockhampton case is this. A number of years ago, the free/freedom camper movement were vilifying the council for not supporting them with a free camp. They called for a black ban on the town at that time. How times change.
As for there being no court case if the caravan park lobby hadn't pushed for it, so what. They were pushing to try and protect their position, the same as freedon campers calling for a boycott of the town to force their issue.
On another point, the comment regarding attacking people with differing opinions could be equally applied to both sides of this argument, as there are disrespectful comments aplenty directed at people expressing different opinions in both directions. In fact, I often see the irony in the commentators remarks. I often wonder if people were sitting beside each other around a campfire, how many would still comment in the manner they do here. Significantly fewer I suspect!
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 05:12:55 PM
dieseltojo said
03:31 PM Dec 22, 2018
It amazes me that a new member (5 posts), can ask a simple question here and even pray it is not political and get pure venom back for his trouble.
For mine, welcome to the forum Swampy42. Another friendly forum that instead of welcoming members beats them over the face. And the clique quickly climbs on board to sink the boot in.
Any way Swampy, I reckon that what ever caravan parks do is actually beyond our control, and the fact that they are closing camp sites down in favour of cabins is included.
We get continual feed back on the rights of park owners whilst at the same time they compete with the motels in the town. Self righteousness impersonification royally administered ; similar to the nasty replies you received.
When we travel I plan the trip out of the camps book. (New one out in mid Feb). But I also note that many farm stays are are getting up and running. A peaceful river setting might be preferd to a show ground . I guess it all depends on the time constraints. We go to van parks when needed and on the east cost they are generally favorable. When traveling through We have never not found a freecamp if required.
Santa said
03:55 PM Dec 22, 2018
"pure venom" eh, all I see is a bit of banter, nothing to get yer knickers in a twist over.
I guess the perpetually offended types take umbrage at most things.
The Belmont Bear said
04:32 PM Dec 22, 2018
As I said I sit on the fence when it comes to this argument about designated free camping areas. What I was trying to point out in my earlier post (maybe not clearly enough) was that both sides were just as guilty as each other of attacking the person rather than the subject. Longer term members of the GN site would be well aware that there are certain topics that people have strong and opposing points of view on and Swampie42 as a newbie just happened to find one.
Cheers BB
mezza56 said
06:30 PM Dec 22, 2018
Wow I havent seen a rambling post like this for a while , most of it bored my pants off .
montie said
07:31 PM Dec 22, 2018
Phillipn wrote:
Dickodownunder wrote:
montie wrote:
beiffe wrote:
These councils that cave to the caravan parks take the risk that they drive many people away from the town as many will not stay in these jails.
Beiffe,
Rockhampton CC did not "cave" to the caravan parks association they were ordered to close by the court because the free camping site did not comply with urban regulations.
As a dealer I am all in favour of free or lowcost camping however the reality now is that urban densely populated areas have strict regulatory requirements for such camping grounds which if complied with will render them uneconomical to maintain. In rural areas free or low cost camping is a lot easier because the compliancing requirements are not as strict. When posters refer to "free" they are of course saying it is "free to them", but the reality is that somebody has to pay the insurance and other costs of maintenance. Nothing is free totally.
I think in regional cities like Rockhampton the cost of compliancing and maintenance would far outweigh any economic benefit to the community and rate payers.
You must be getting tired Montie trying to explain the ACTUAL facts.
It is amazing that some continue on with their blinkers firmly mounted against their temples in a blind defence of what they consider is happening to their rite to camp in council reserves.
Belmont Bear has said it accurately but unfortunately there is always
None so blind as those that just dont want to see.
Their would NOT have been a court case, had the caravan parks not pushed the issue.
This storm was started by the caravan park operators. A storm that will hurt the caravan park operators pockets.
Ok, so you own a caravan park within the city bounds who has spent $millions on developement, is paying high rates and is required by local council to meet stringent compliancing regulations. All this investment to provide a service to vanners.
Now the same council to whom these high rates are being paid and regulatory requirements being imposed ignores all it's own legal obligations and opens a "free" camp less than one kilometre away. Now, I think that park operator had every right to ask a few questions.
Kershaw Gardens free camp will close in Feb as ordered by the court unless they meet their obligations to make it compliant the same as park operators must do. That is unlikely to happen.
I seriously doubt it will have any affect on the caravan parks business. If travellers want low cost camping they will seek it out in rural areas.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread the days of free camping in densly populated urban areas are numbered. That's a reality.
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 07:37:27 PM
Desert Dweller said
07:57 PM Dec 22, 2018
Loving some of the comments on this thread.
We're still searching for the venomous ones, can"t find em' anywhere.
As for camping at farm/station stays THEY are generally more expensive than staying in a caravan park.
Lots of newly retired city folk around that have never been anywhere looking for a ''real life'' Aussie bush experience.
See a few sheep, cows & horses, sit around a REAL wood campfire for the first time with a few sherbets & pay a premium price for the experience.
Come in sucker. Drought relief in a tourism nutshell.
Patrons go straight back into a caravan park, wash their rig to keep up appearances & off they go again.
Win, win situation for everyone.
Eaglemax said
07:57 PM Dec 22, 2018
I'm not the jealous type. I'm happy for some to be able to buy their $200,000 rig. Doesnt bother me.
However when some mention "spending just a few dollars in a CP"...a few dollars? Up to $48 in my experience. Being on disability pension, that is a lot of money.
So do we stay home? Are we not entitled to see our country on a shoe string? Are we not entitled to dislike not only the cost but the sardine environment of a CP?
Ratepayers pick up the tab of roadside maintenance...well nomads arriving in my town do the same, it all works out ok in the end.
It seems clear there is class distinction not only on the road but on this forum. The arrogance of old timers here that "the topic's been done to the death" is deplorable towards a new member. After all we have limited topics to chat about. If you dont like a topic just move on...easy. why be nasty?
Forums are all about people expressing their opinions. That's what a forum is.
We gave our honest opinion, simple really.
If you don't enjoy people posting their opinions don't subscribe to a forum.
Beiffe,
Rockhampton CC did not "cave" to the caravan parks association they were ordered to close by the court because the free camping site did not comply with urban regulations.
As a dealer I am all in favour of free or lowcost camping however the reality now is that urban densely populated areas have strict regulatory requirements for such camping grounds which if complied with will render them uneconomical to maintain. In rural areas free or low cost camping is a lot easier because the compliancing requirements are not as strict. When posters refer to "free" they are of course saying it is "free to them", but the reality is that somebody has to pay the insurance and other costs of maintenance. Nothing is free totally.
I think in regional cities like Rockhampton the cost of compliancing and maintenance would far outweigh any economic benefit to the community and rate payers.
I have no problems with an area that does not want free campers. Actually free camping is a free choice to me, and I support that town where a lot of caravan park patrons come with their supplies from home and half full fuel tanks and after their stay at the park leave and contribute nothing to the town except the money left at the park. When I found and area like this I just put a red ring around it in my camps book and I planned my travels so I did not have to stop for fuel or provisions. I also entered the town in my GPS as an Unfriendly town and when I was about a kilometre from the perimeter it gave me a warning so I did not stop
These same areas are always screaming for volunteers after their disasters and Queensland is very bad as they seem to have their floods etc every year in the same area and they want the nomads etc to come and give their labour for free so it goes both ways. I have no problems with people staying in caravan jails, that is their tight but please dont say we can not have the right to camp and stay where we want when it is legal. If we want to support towns that have the free camps then that is up to us, the same as I never do voluntary work in an area that I know is against free camping and I know a lot of the volunteers are the same, that also is our option.
Well put Montie, but it won't appease the self righteous free camper, those that travel from rest area to free camps like Yelgun Calliope and Kershaw.
I love a good low cost camp as much as the next traveller but staying at these places would make my head spin, crowded filthy toilets dogs and backpackers all swooning in a cesspit, it would make a good horror movie.
Beiffe, going by your comments I think your more an opportunist than a volunteer, volunteers aren't that tight about accommodation and free meals. And this is just pure spite.
Beiffe wrote ( I am/was involved in a group that help farmers etc after disasters and was involved in the organisation of proposed areas relief camps and was many times advised that any volunteers coming to give their time for free would be required to stay in the caravan park and pay full price. It was a bit of bad luck that their area did not get the proposed base and therefore the farmers got no help in their area.)
-- Edited by Kebbin on Friday 21st of December 2018 04:08:54 PM
-- Edited by Kebbin on Friday 21st of December 2018 04:09:29 PM
Were all different DD likes being by himself in the middle of nowhere looking at little birdies and takeing pictures ,two days of that would drive us nuts, we like to be near country towns and going for nice scenic drives,and camped with other people sitting around a nice fire in winter,whos ,whos right ,whos wrong nobody,We like The so called free camps because its a different atmosphere to caravan parks,its not so much a money thing its mainly not paying for cramped sites,paying for things you dont need,there nowhere near as relaxed and social,you dont have much room for rig,in one way they leave caravan parks for dead.
just my opinion....
Jeez......
How about a forum at GN for free campers.
Lets have blog space so FREE CAMPERS can communicate and share their experiences over the CP lovers with cash to splash.
Just thinking?
Exactly! You're dead right, we enjoy bush camping & nature photography, each to their own.
Sitting around doing bugger all while looking at others doing the same would bore us to snorts, but if they enjoy it good on ém.
We like to keep our brains active in retirement by writing magazine articles, our images are used by travel websites, publications/books & lectures.
When we camp with others we enjoy socializing with them but never bore them by talking about our particular interests.
Not everyone is interested in nature.
We rarely mix with ''bird nerds'' & have many other interests, fishing, bush walking, history, wineries etc.
Free/donation camps are under immense pressure these days due to retirees who may not have ever camped in their lifetime previously, looking for a place to park their ''new toys''.
We reckon that in the future it will all end in tears in the playground, too many people doing it & a lot more to come.
-- Edited by Desert Dweller on Friday 21st of December 2018 07:09:09 PM
Well put Tony!
Beiffe
I want to make comment about the comment aimed at people who use caravan parks, and their supposed lack of local spending.
I don't know where you get your information, but caravan park users spend no less than free campers in the towns where they stay from my observations. In fact I wonder what research you based your inference that they only use supplies brought with them, while free campers buy their supplies from the town they camp in comes from?
I suspect it is based on the misleading belief of free campers that they all spend more dollars, on more things, than others in the towns that they have conned into believeing they are worth more to the locals. My observations would be that free campers in fact buy no more than any others where they stay, and in fact, as they don't want to pay for accomodation, probably spend less. I am yet to meet any traveller who buys more than they need anywhere.
As for your comment that you will not volunteer in locations that do not support free campers, I think that says much more about you, and those like you, than the towns that you avoid. Your choice certainly, but hardly the spirit of volunteering I would have thought.
As with Kebbin, I have no bone to pick with free camping in general terms. We use them as we travel, where they are available, and they suit our route. What I do have a problem with is the increasing expectation that all locations will provide a free camp, and if they don't there is a call to black ball the town, and punish them for daring to exercise exactly what the free camping fraternity claim to want to protect. Freedom of Choice!
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Friday 21st of December 2018 05:57:37 PM
"Opinions Ian, most of us have one and we're all entitled to respectfully express our own."
that would be nice to see
yep......." Respectfully".....
Ian
First I'd like to say that I sit in neither camp I have nothing against those travellers who choose to free camp (legally) and I have nothing against those who mainly stay in CPs. What I do find amusing is that the freedom camping side of the argument take offence at being stereotyped as freeloaders yet have no problem in doing the same thing to the other side referring to CPs as being gaols run by greedy owners and used by weekend warriors, dregs of society etc. At the end of the day it is a personal choice how you travel around this vast country and as DD suggested there is still plenty of bush out there where no one is likely to bug you if you choose the freedom camping option.
I am fortunate to live in an area that is surrounded by a lake, surfing beaches, vineyards, national parks etc. and as far as I know there are no designated freecamping areas. Personally I don't mind travellers who do as AK suggested and find themselves a nice quiet reserve to rest up in for a night as long as they leave the place as they found it. As a rate payer I would have a real issue if all of our public spaces started filling up with longer term freecampers regardless of where they spent their money..
Cheers
BB
-- Edited by The Belmont Bear on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 07:52:51 AM
If you read the original post by Swampy42, he was just asking a simple question in regards to Caravan Parks lobbying to close some free camps. Nothing wrong with the question and personally from someone who both free camp AND stay and pay at c/parks without complaining about the $$$, its a question that is very relevant today with the huge number of vanners out there on the road.
My Bitch is in the way these "same" people "attack" others while hiding behind their computer showing no respect or decency towards fellow travellers what so ever.
Nothing wrong with having a different opinion, very healthy, in most cases, but I think its a reflection on these peoples characters the way in which they reply. Just read DDs first reply post to swampy42, if you think respectful, well, I give in.
We continually here complaints about the "me" generation showing no respect, well guess where they got it from
enough
regards
Ian
You must be getting tired Montie trying to explain the ACTUAL facts.
It is amazing that some continue on with their blinkers firmly mounted against their temples in a blind defence of what they consider is happening to their rite to camp in council reserves.
Belmont Bear has said it accurately but unfortunately there is always
None so blind as those that just dont want to see.
What makes an argument volatile is false or misleading information coming into the discussion and continuing along those lines regardless of information received. My opinion only.
Wanda,
If any further free camps are closed in urban areas it will be because they are non compliant.
Parks to my knowledge are not "lobbying" anybody but they are however now insisting the "free camps" meet the same strict compliancing regulations that they are required to, which in my view is fair enough. Kershaw Gardens is a perfect example of a Council with double standards where CP's must meet all regulations and the council free camp totally ignores their own compliancing regulations altogether. The Judge made this point in his ruling.
As a dealer I would love to see low cost camping areas everywhere, but the reality now is that urban city areas will find it difficult to provide them. There is no point in blaming CP's, Councils or peoples camping preferences, the reality is they have to be legally compliant or close down.The precedent has been set.
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 10:17:55 AM
cheers
blaze
ps
van hooked up and about to set it up 50km away in a cheap nation park run camp $50 per family per week
So! telling someone to "Pull ya head in mate" is respectful.
Their would NOT have been a court case, had the caravan parks not pushed the issue.
This storm was started by the caravan park operators. A storm that will hurt the caravan park operators pockets.
I think you are missing my point Montie, as far as the debate over free camps go, I have an opinion BUT are not really discussing the issue at the moment, as you can see from my last posts
"My Bitch" is in the way these "same" people "attack" others while hiding behind their computer showing no respect or decency towards fellow travellers what so ever." Its NOT about a difference of opinion, every one is entitlled to form an opinon, EVEN free campers.
I DO NOT include you in that list of people, I have found your responses, both respectful of others and fair.
The debate over free camps(hate that word) will continue and like all arguments, there are always two sides to each debate. "Some" caravan parks have lobbied councils, not as a group as far as I know, and successful closed some camps.
I have no doubt the majority of travellers use both free camps and c/van parks from time to time. Its the accusations/attacks of some of these clowns when someone mentions "free camps" you get bombarded with being a tight ass, want everything for free etc etc.
regards
Ian
The issue is not with free campers per se, it's the people who feel they entitled to free/stealth camp within towns/cities, they are wrong.
We have a nice area set up as a self contained free camp close by, only service is a tap, no toilets, you guessed it, back packers and vans without toilet facilities are turning it into a crap and toilet paper festooned area few will care to visit in the near future, no wonder they get closed down, as well as being a health hazard they are an unpleasant eye sore.
Funny thing is with the Rockhampton case is this. A number of years ago, the free/freedom camper movement were vilifying the council for not supporting them with a free camp. They called for a black ban on the town at that time. How times change.
As for there being no court case if the caravan park lobby hadn't pushed for it, so what. They were pushing to try and protect their position, the same as freedon campers calling for a boycott of the town to force their issue.
On another point, the comment regarding attacking people with differing opinions could be equally applied to both sides of this argument, as there are disrespectful comments aplenty directed at people expressing different opinions in both directions. In fact, I often see the irony in the commentators remarks. I often wonder if people were sitting beside each other around a campfire, how many would still comment in the manner they do here. Significantly fewer I suspect!
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 05:12:55 PM
It amazes me that a new member (5 posts), can ask a simple question here and even pray it is not political and get pure venom back for his trouble.
For mine, welcome to the forum Swampy42. Another friendly forum that instead of welcoming members beats them over the face. And the clique quickly climbs on board to sink the boot in.
Any way Swampy, I reckon that what ever caravan parks do is actually beyond our control, and the fact that they are closing camp sites down in favour of cabins is included.
We get continual feed back on the rights of park owners whilst at the same time they compete with the motels in the town. Self righteousness impersonification royally administered ; similar to the nasty replies you received.
When we travel I plan the trip out of the camps book. (New one out in mid Feb). But I also note that many farm stays are are getting up and running. A peaceful river setting might be preferd to a show ground . I guess it all depends on the time constraints. We go to van parks when needed and on the east cost they are generally favorable. When traveling through We have never not found a freecamp if required.
"pure venom" eh, all I see is a bit of banter, nothing to get yer knickers in a twist over.
I guess the perpetually offended types take umbrage at most things.
As I said I sit on the fence when it comes to this argument about designated free camping areas. What I was trying to point out in my earlier post (maybe not clearly enough) was that both sides were just as guilty as each other of attacking the person rather than the subject. Longer term members of the GN site would be well aware that there are certain topics that people have strong and opposing points of view on and Swampie42 as a newbie just happened to find one.
Cheers
BB
Ok, so you own a caravan park within the city bounds who has spent $millions on developement, is paying high rates and is required by local council to meet stringent compliancing regulations. All this investment to provide a service to vanners.
Now the same council to whom these high rates are being paid and regulatory requirements being imposed ignores all it's own legal obligations and opens a "free" camp less than one kilometre away. Now, I think that park operator had every right to ask a few questions.
Kershaw Gardens free camp will close in Feb as ordered by the court unless they meet their obligations to make it compliant the same as park operators must do. That is unlikely to happen.
I seriously doubt it will have any affect on the caravan parks business. If travellers want low cost camping they will seek it out in rural areas.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread the days of free camping in densly populated urban areas are numbered. That's a reality.
-- Edited by montie on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 07:37:27 PM
Loving some of the comments on this thread.
We're still searching for the venomous ones, can"t find em' anywhere.
As for camping at farm/station stays THEY are generally more expensive than staying in a caravan park.
Lots of newly retired city folk around that have never been anywhere looking for a ''real life'' Aussie bush experience.
See a few sheep, cows & horses, sit around a REAL wood campfire for the first time with a few sherbets & pay a premium price for the experience.
Come in sucker. Drought relief in a tourism nutshell.
Patrons go straight back into a caravan park, wash their rig to keep up appearances & off they go again.
Win, win situation for everyone.
I'm not the jealous type. I'm happy for some to be able to buy their $200,000 rig. Doesnt bother me.
However when some mention "spending just a few dollars in a CP"...a few dollars? Up to $48 in my experience. Being on disability pension, that is a lot of money.
So do we stay home? Are we not entitled to see our country on a shoe string? Are we not entitled to dislike not only the cost but the sardine environment of a CP?
Ratepayers pick up the tab of roadside maintenance...well nomads arriving in my town do the same, it all works out ok in the end.
It seems clear there is class distinction not only on the road but on this forum. The arrogance of old timers here that "the topic's been done to the death" is deplorable towards a new member. After all we have limited topics to chat about. If you dont like a topic just move on...easy. why be nasty?
Welcome Swampy. I hope you enjoy the forum.
Tony
Nasty, venomous? think I'm missing something.