Dont get confused with the amount of power an engine develops when towing torque and engine capacity is the main consideration,my 2.5ltr challenger developed similar KW power to the Mux ,but The torque in the Isuzu 3ltre truck engine is what makes the Isuzu the towing machine it is ,with its massive torque band and 3 ltr engine thats what gets you up hills and the Mux eats hills towing a medium sized van , this car compared to the old one is fabulous,the Dmax same grunt ,but slightly more towing capacity because its a utility,we would rather have the sedan personal choice,we did not need the extra bit of towing capacity...

The Belmont Bear wrote:

......... I think that the answer to the OPs question is - No .....a loaded 21' Jurgens Lunagazer (according to the BMW specs) will be too heavy for the X3 to tow and remain within legal requirements....BB

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        And THAT is exactly what I suggested waaaaaasy back. The car is too small for the chosen van.Period,Cheers

yobarr wrote:

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The Belmont Bear wrote:

......... I think that the answer to the OPs question is - No .....a loaded 21' Jurgens Lunagazer (according to the BMW specs) will be too heavy for the X3 to tow and remain within legal requirements....BB

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        And THAT is exactly what I suggested waaaaaasy back. The car is too small for the van.Period,Cheers

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No, you've got it completely the wrong way round. The van is too big for the car!

He has the car already. Get a smaller van, period! 

Mamil wrote

No, you've got it completely the wrong way round. The van is too big for the car!

He has the car already. Get a smaller van, period! 

 Of course! How silly of me.I am sure that Mick would be looking forward to living with his wife,and two dogs,in a 2 x 4.8 metre space.(Dog Box?)The OP said he was looking at a 21 van that we know weighs 2200kg.He possibly chose a van that size to minimise the possibility of claustrophobia,and some of us have been actively trying to help him source a suitable tow vehicle.If he had asked for suggestions on tiny vans that he could tow with his present vehicle,do you not think that that is what he would have asked? Cheers

yobarr wrote:

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Mamil wrote

No, you've got it completely the wrong way round. The van is too big for the car!

He has the car already. Get a smaller van, period! 

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 Of course! How silly of me.I am sure that Mick would be looking forward to living with his wife,and two dogs,in a 2 x 4.8 metre space.(Dog Box?)The OP said he was looking at a 21 van that we know weighs 2200kg.He possibly chose a van that size to minimise the possibility of claustrophobia,and some of us have been actively trying to help him source a suitable tow vehicle.If he had asked for suggestions on tiny vans that he could tow with his present vehicle,do you not think that that is what he would have asked? Cheers

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Anyway, didn't mean to wind you up with my previous post, was just a cheeky way of pointing out there's two ways of looking at the problem. I'm sure the OP will find a third!! Never mind, I'll still invite you for a drink in my "dog box" if we ever meet in the blue yonder Yobarr,  but of course you'll have to stand up as there's not enough room for us all to sit down 

-- Edited by Mamil on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 03:04:00 PM

Mamil wrote:

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 Seems my bit of cheeky fun wasn't taken the way it was intended. Hey ho, never mind, I'll still invite you for a drink in my "dog box" if we ever meet in the blue yonder Yobarr,  but of course you'll have to stand up as there's not enough room for us all to sit down 

 Hi Andy....all is good,but I must admit that the cheeky fun went right over my head! When I am back in Perth we could catch up for an ale,but I must be getting old? In my youth,visitors always were prioritised in the seating arrangements.Cheers

I have a 2017 Lunagazer J2405 that tips the weighbridge at a fraction under 2.2t, with 200kg on the towball. Max plated towball is 220kg. People I chat to have the impression it is a lightweight van... well, it ain't, you know it's there. I tow with a Ford Everest 3.2L, and with the right tyre pressures, tows quite well. The van is built well (as well as a caravan can be I guess) and is a step up from our previous vans, Jayco and Coromal. Overall, quite happy, though I do need to get out more.

Cheers to all...
Greg

Knight wrote:

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yobarr wrote:

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PeterD wrote:

I feel there is a lot of hogwash put forth about European diesel engines. For the last 22 years I have been towing with 2.5 litre engines. My Land Rovers were able to tow my 2 tonne vans, keeping up with the traffic OK. When I was in mountainous country I generally outperformed the Toyotas with their overly large ancient motors. The last one, a tD5 had 260,000 on the clock when I traded it. In hind site we should have kept it.  My current tug is a Nissan D40 (another European diesel) and it has close to 300,000 on the clock.

The Lunagazer is a reasonable size van that you should be able to live in for a few years. I suggest you purchase it and keep the BMW a little longer. 

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 I dont think that the engine,or its power, is the problem? You might like to refer to my first post on this topic,and that of Desert Dweller? Why take the risk of trying to make a boy do a mans job? Be safe,and ultimately better off.Do it once..DO IT WELL.Just buy the DMax.Cheers.

 

Hi Peter

The Land Rovers were sold before the tough Euro Standards on diesel emissions came into effect when vehicle manufacturers using common rail, turbo intercooler and other technology over stressed small capacity engines to produce equivalent power and torque to large capacity engines. The TD5 diesel engine has 5 cylinders, the highly stressed diesels have 4 cylinders.

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-- Edited by Knight on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 06:28:45 AM

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 Hi

Discussing the many over stressed high output diesel engines now on offer from most of the manufacturers I put together a comparison list;

Land Rover TD5 2.5 Litres x 5 cylinders

Power 101 kW

Torque 300 Nm

Mitsubishi Triton/Pajero 2.4 Litres x 4 cylinders

Power  133 kW

Torque 430 Nm

Isuzu MU-X 3.0 Litres x 4 cylinders

Power 130 kW

Torque 430 Nm

Noting that the Isuzu and Land Rover diesel engines were designed for hard work and are therefore under stressed and more likely, when book serviced (example change engine oil and filter every 10,000 and not as Isuzu recommend at 20,000 kilometres - Isuzu has a book service every 10,000 but not oil/filter change) and driven sensibly to easily do 500,000 kilometres of service.

The advice I have from a specialist diesel engine recondition service centre is that highly stressed diesel engines are being reconditioned at 150-200,000 kilometres.

Relating to all the above I'm not an engineer so I cannot comment. Better still I can but my comments are just based on subjective perceptions and comparative ignorance.

With that in mind I wish I knew a qualified mechanical engineer who can explain to me how come a SWB Land Rover Defender can tow 3.5 tons. It just doesn't seem right to me. By qualified I mean an engineer who has actually worked in the Engineering Department of a motor manufacturer.

Bryan wrote:

...... engineer who can explain to me how come a SWB Land Rover Defender can tow 3.5 tons. It just doesn't seem right to me.......

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 I too would like to know how this can be. Defenders are treated with scorn by many mechanics,and have a propensity to break chassis,but I have been told....I dont know how accurately....that the towing capacity relates to some complicated formula of being able to tow a set weight,from a standing start,up a certain gradient? Perhaps someone who KNOWS...not thinks he knows....can elaborate? And with a wheelbase 56mm shorter than an LC200,they would be dangerous with 3500kg behind them.Cheers

One of the things I look at when buying a new vehicle is how confident is the manufacturer in their product i.e. what warranty are they prepared to offer.

Landrover Discovery - 3 years 100,000km

Isuzu MUX - 5 years 130,000km

2019 Triton - 7 years 150,000km

If our specialist diesel engine reconditioners are correct then Mitsubishi may have a few highly stressed motors to replace as they will be hitting their end of life....

Cheers

BB

Most tritons are not towing caravans most Isuzus are 

The Belmont Bear wrote:

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One of the things I look at when buying a new vehicle is how confident is the manufacturer in their product i.e. what warranty are they prepared to offer.

Landrover Discovery - 3 years 100,000km

Isuzu MUX - 5 years 130,000km

2019 Triton - 7 years 150,000km

If our specialist diesel engine reconditioners are correct then Mitsubishi may have a few highly stressed motors to replace as they will be hitting their end of life....

Cheers

BB

 

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 Roy Morgan research published in 2013 ...

Just ask any motorist whos been caught in a peak-hour traffic jam lately: theyll tell you that Australias roads are crowded. But even they might be surprised at the latest figures from Roy Morgans automotive data, which reveal that there are almost 15.5 million drivers on our roads nationwide, driving an average of 15,530km each per annum.

However, there are significant variations in distance depending on what type of vehicle is being driven. Longer-distance motorists are concentrated among the Light Commercial and Larger SUV vehicle segments, clocking up annual averages of 24,030km and 18,350km respectively.

Drivers of Light or Small Passenger vehicles and Small SUVs tend to cover the least distance per annum, all travelling less than 14,000 km on average.

WRon-D wrote:

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Most tritons are not towing caravans most Isuzus are 

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Ron when I had my Pajero Sport I dont remember Mitsubishi ever saying that the warranty only applied to those vehicles not towing vans so as a manufacturer they seem to have more confidence in their product than Isuzu have 

knight as the Triton is  classed as a light commercial vehicle the numbers suggest the 24000km avg. is right on the money for the 150000km x 7 year warranty. I reckon the reason small SUVs and small sedans are averaging less is because they are more popular as second cars and for using around town. Of those estimated 15.5 million drivers the vast majority would live in the major cities and probably only drive to work and go on holidays once or twice a year.

Cheers

BB

BB you soon got rid of your fabulous Pajero sport after trying to tow a van with it. There good cars mine was too but there not in the same class as some vehicles of even similar capacity,just read car towing reviews everywhere on the net,they can tow vans obviously,but if you think there in the class of an Isuzu you dont know what your on about..my Isuzu is an absolute rocket ship compared to the Mitsubishi I towed my two ton van with for five years,good car but absolutely gutless compared to the Mux,I considered the Jeep but my friend has had nothing but trouble with his,each to there own ...

You are right Ron I thought that the Sport was a great car but I think that it was a little out of it's depth pulling 2.7T that's why I bought a Jeep with it's 570Nm 180kw 3 ltr V6. I probably would have kept the Sport if the van had been 500kg less as I'm sure it would have been operating more within it's comfort zone. My brother recently replaced his Nissan with the new Isuzu D Max and is pulling the same weight van as ours, the reason he bought it was because of Isuzu's reputation for reliability. In terms of it being a rocket if I put the GC in sports mode I could probably give him 30 metres start over a 100 and still get there ahead of him .

By the way Ron don't compare the performance of the old 2.5ltr Challenger with the new 2.4ltr Pajero Sport although similar in numbers with their new 8 speed transmission they go pretty well it's just how hard they need to work to do it. Touch wood I've had no troubles or recalls with my Jeep but it's still only early days. On the other hand my wife's new Mitsubishi Ecplipse X has already been back twice since we bought it in October - at this rate we may well need their 7 year warranty .

Cheers

BB

BB no dought the Jeep has the grunt and is a good tow vehicle perfect for what your towing,Iam not comparing the challenger or the sport with the Mux ,I think you hnow there both good cars in there own way,but I towed with my 2011 challenger for years ,and the big difference between the cars is the massive torque band ,the challenger used to hunt up and down on the really steep stuff and rev like mad and go into lymp mode,the Mux selects one gear usually and just holds it to the top,just like the truck engine it is,the onlly  thing I can think of is the toroque BAND must be huge thats why every towing test report you read on this vehicle gives it the thumbs up,and I dont care if there are more powerful vehicles this car was a real surprise packet grunt wise,compared to what I had it just eats hills towing 2.2 ton,no wonder theres so many towing vans talking to owners over the years is what got me behind the wheel....

I could be wrong but from what others have said two vehicles can have similar amounts of torque but its the depth of those torque bands that gets you up hills,skinny torque bands are no good towing on hills ,thats what passenger cars have,truck engines have deep torque bands...