No offence meant by last post, I have been thru, all the posts a few times & have gone from solar dimwit to understanding the ,black art, of solar a hell of a lot better,
I was a toolroom supervisor for 40 odd years & had to dumb down My tech. explanations to management so They could see where Their dollars were going.
I jotted down all the relevant points about L.A. batterys on to a sheet,
Separated the wheat from the chaff, stopped My brain hurting too!
Thanks everyone for Your input,
John.
Jaahn said
09:25 PM Nov 1, 2018
Hi
I might think the OP's question was simple enough and could have been answered with a couple of qualified replies to a suitable accuracy.
But for some reason some people chose to reply with a lot of technical jargon mostly off the topic and pushing a couple of personal barrows. On and On and On and O,,,,,,,,,
Then for Terry to imply that it is a particularly technical problem with no easy answer is just BS. The usual putting down of LA and how simple lithium would be to answer. Find another place to spout the BS and leave it to people who want a sensible answer, or there will be no people left looking here .
There would be hundreds of people out there with a similar battery and some panels who could have answered him but would not dare to, because they are reluctant to get in the sh*t fight that was obviously starting. The moderator should step in IMHO.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:30:57 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:31:38 PM
Ron-D said
08:51 AM Nov 2, 2018
Jaahn wrote:
Hi
I might think the OP's question was simple enough and could have been answered with a couple of qualified replies to a suitable accuracy.
But for some reason some people chose to reply with a lot of technical jargon mostly off the topic and pushing a couple of personal barrows. On and On and On and O,,,,,,,,,
Then for Terry to imply that it is a particularly technical problem with no easy answer is just BS. The usual putting down of LA and how simple lithium would be to answer. Find another place to spout the BS and leave it to people who want a sensible answer, or there will be no people left looking here .
There would be hundreds of people out there with a similar battery and some panels who could have answered him but would not dare to, because they are reluctant to get in the sh*t fight that was obviously starting. The moderator should step in IMHO.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:30:57 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:31:38 PM
Perfect answer nothing turns people off more than huge rants that go on and on,for no reason, I just ignor posts like that there self serving and very tedious ,a basic answer to a basic problem helps people,your right it destroys a good segment of the forum,simple answers to simple problems is what people want not Long winded boring Teco rants ,flogging the benefits of lithium batteries , I just dont bother reading his posts ...
T1 Terry said
02:20 PM Nov 3, 2018
Jaahn wrote:
Hi
I might think the OP's question was simple enough and could have been answered with a couple of qualified replies to a suitable accuracy.
But for some reason some people chose to reply with a lot of technical jargon mostly off the topic and pushing a couple of personal barrows. On and On and On and O,,,,,,,,,
Then for Terry to imply that it is a particularly technical problem with no easy answer is just BS. The usual putting down of LA and how simple lithium would be to answer. Find another place to spout the BS and leave it to people who want a sensible answer, or there will be no people left looking here .
There would be hundreds of people out there with a similar battery and some panels who could have answered him but would not dare to, because they are reluctant to get in the sh*t fight that was obviously starting. The moderator should step in IMHO.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:30:57 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:31:38 PM
Here ya go Jaahn, simplify this from an AGM battery manufacturer while keeping it factual to answer the Op's question, how long does it take to recharge a battery
Easy to shoot from the armchair, now time to startle us with your knowledge about lead acid batteries, because we haven't seen much of it sofar
Fantastic Terry that should be a really big help to most people here
T1 Terry said
02:37 PM Nov 5, 2018
As you can see from the factories charging directions, there isn't really a simple answer to the op's question. The fast recharge is the interesting bit. 2.4v per cell x 6 cells for 12v battery = 14.4v. Limit the current to 0.3C(A) or 30 amps per 100Ah battery capacity, so yes you can have too much solar compared to battery capacity, but the bit about min current remaining the same for 3 consecutive hrs will indicate fully charged and that is still maintaining 14.4v. Then the bit about this can reduce the recharge time by half depending on the depth of discharge. That is half of 48 hrs .... it simply can't be achieved using solar only if the batteries are in cyclic use and dropping to 13.8v float half way through the days charging period means they are not likely to reach much into the 90% SOC by the end of the day.
Something else to note, this is the charging regime used by the factory to recharge the battery when doing the cycle life testing, nothing like the charging regime used by just about every RV, so the factories cycle life should be viewed as an optimistic expected cycle life, even if viewed at the lower limit of the graph. In reality, if you get that many cycles and still have 60% of the advertised capacity remaining, you have done extremely well. Also keep in mind when viewing this chart thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65035593/how-long-to-charge/ the 50% graph means at the end of the 400 cycles there is only 10% capacity remaining before the 50% SOC point is reached (10Ah per 100Ah advertised capacity) and the 30% graph means you are discharging 30Ah per 100Ah advertised capacity when the battery was new, but at the end of the 1200 cycles you only have 30% of that 10 Ah, next to nothing, so at some stage you will be moving out of the 30% depth of discharge scale and into some where between the 50% and 30% graph and quite likely into the 100% graph near the end, but you won't actually realise it until the lights go out just after the sun goes down.
T1 Terry
oldtrack123 said
03:49 PM Nov 20, 2018
Jaahn wrote:
Hi
I might think the OP's question was simple enough and could have been answered with a couple of qualified replies to a suitable accuracy.
But for some reason some people chose to reply with a lot of technical jargon mostly off the topic and pushing a couple of personal barrows. On and On and On and O,,,,,,,,,
Then for Terry to imply that it is a particularly technical problem with no easy answer is just BS. The usual putting down of LA and how simple lithium would be to answer. Find another place to spout the BS and leave it to people who want a sensible answer, or there will be no people left looking here .
There would be hundreds of people out there with a similar battery and some panels who could have answered him but would not dare to, because they are reluctant to get in the sh*t fight that was obviously starting. The moderator should step in IMHO.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:30:57 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:31:38 PM
T1 Terry said
04:24 PM Nov 20, 2018
oldtrack123 wrote:
Jaahn wrote:
Hi
I might think the OP's question was simple enough and could have been answered with a couple of qualified replies to a suitable accuracy.
But for some reason some people chose to reply with a lot of technical jargon mostly off the topic and pushing a couple of personal barrows. On and On and On and O,,,,,,,,,
Then for Terry to imply that it is a particularly technical problem with no easy answer is just BS. The usual putting down of LA and how simple lithium would be to answer. Find another place to spout the BS and leave it to people who want a sensible answer, or there will be no people left looking here .
There would be hundreds of people out there with a similar battery and some panels who could have answered him but would not dare to, because they are reluctant to get in the sh*t fight that was obviously starting. The moderator should step in IMHO.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:30:57 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:31:38 PM
The offer is open to you as well as Jaahn Peter, read my reply post to Jaahn and give that short clear and accurate reply. That way you can show just how clever you are .... or are not, which ever the case maybe
T1 Terry
oldtrack123 said
07:22 PM Nov 20, 2018
T1 Terry wrote:
oldtrack123 wrote:
Jaahn wrote:
Hi
I might think the OP's question was simple enough and could have been answered with a couple of qualified replies to a suitable accuracy.
But for some reason some people chose to reply with a lot of technical jargon mostly off the topic and pushing a couple of personal barrows. On and On and On and O,,,,,,,,,
Then for Terry to imply that it is a particularly technical problem with no easy answer is just BS. The usual putting down of LA and how simple lithium would be to answer. Find another place to spout the BS and leave it to people who want a sensible answer, or there will be no people left looking here .
There would be hundreds of people out there with a similar battery and some panels who could have answered him but would not dare to, because they are reluctant to get in the sh*t fight that was obviously starting. The moderator should step in IMHO.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:30:57 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:31:38 PM
The offer is open to you as well as Jaahn Peter, read my reply post to Jaahn and give that short clear and accurate reply. That way you can show just how clever you are .... or are not, which ever the case maybe
T1 Terry
Hi Terry
I could not be bothered, because all it would bring out is another long irrelevant load of bullS^* from your.
T1 Terry said
12:23 PM Nov 21, 2018
A simple "I can't" would have done Peter
T1 Terry
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Wednesday 21st of November 2018 12:23:54 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
12:31 PM Nov 21, 2018
OP has long gone .
T1 Terry said
01:48 PM Nov 21, 2018
Back here AK https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65035593/how-long-to-charge/?page=2#comment-65055327 the thread was then open to wander off on the usual track driven by the usual suspects
T1 Terry
Joda said
06:17 PM Nov 22, 2018
Nope A.K, still reading the posts, had a technical life in engineering myself & could argue for ages about a problem,
I quite enjoy reading stuff from 2 highly competent blokes who just see things a different way, its called ,passion,.
Besides I gleaned a fair bit of useful info from ALL the posts,
As for one pushing lithium batterys, I will make up my own mind what batteries I will use,
John.
T1 Terry said
12:25 PM Nov 27, 2018
Joda wrote:
Nope A.K, still reading the posts, had a technical life in engineering myself & could argue for ages about a problem, I quite enjoy reading stuff from 2 highly competent blokes who just see things a different way, its called ,passion,. Besides I gleaned a fair bit of useful info from ALL the posts, As for one pushing lithium batterys, I will make up my own mind what batteries I will use, John.
Now that is the most sensible response I've seen for quite some time on this forum. All I'm doing is putting forward the differences between the 2 chemistries, I leave the decision up to the individual, only they know their needs and can weigh those against the initial cost differences. If you don't have the weight or free camping needs or don't expect to be still needing the life expectancy offered so the cost can't be amortised over time or resale value, then there is no value in upgrading is there?
T1 Terry
oldtrack123 said
06:32 PM Nov 27, 2018
T1 Terry wrote:
A simple "I can't" would have done Peter
T1 Terry
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Wednesday 21st of November 2018 12:23:54 PM
No It is simply too hard to teach a blind dog new tricks or more to the point it is loong painful task to try to teach anything electrical to some one who lacks the basic knowledge & understanding.
Come back when you advanced more than 6months in your electrical apprenticeship or is that 2weeks that you have completed
Ron-D said
08:29 AM Nov 28, 2018
Terry your pushing lithium here to suit your own back pocket be honest...
T1 Terry said
03:09 PM Nov 28, 2018
Ron-D wrote:
Terry your pushing lithium here to suit your own back pocket be honest...
:lol: If people who read this forum translated the information into off grid house installs then I'd agree, but that doesn't happen. I doubt I've gained one job through this forum and that doesn't worry me in the slightest because I'm not doing a promotion for my wife's business here. To be honest, there isn't much profit in RV installs in general if the job is done properly. Those that make money out of it cut corners and I'm not interested in doing that.
T1 Terry
Ron-D said
08:36 AM Dec 6, 2018
Glad you dont cut corners Terry.you must be a cut above the rest,your wife must have a good business with you as an employee..
T1 Terry said
12:15 PM Dec 6, 2018
Ron-D wrote:
Glad you dont cut corners Terry.you must be a cut above the rest,your wife must have a good business with you as an employee..
Well thank you Ron. We offer full back up support for every job we do so doing it right the first time saves us a lot of headaches and sometimes cross country trip to sort a problem. WA Perth area was about the longest caused by the semi flexible solar panel failure problems, so finding a solution was the first priority and then travelling around replacing the failed or potential to fail units with the upgraded design with blocking diodes for each panel.
Since the motor vehicle accident my head can not do the business side at all, I end up booking jobs one on top of the other, getting quotes completely wrong and often discovering there were no parts on hand to build the control systems or do the jobs when they arrived. Now my vision is getting foggy for close up work and the shakes, all from the medication side effects, means I can no longer really do the hands on control system building, so Margaret has stepped up to the plate and taken that over as well. I guess while I still have the knowledge accessible in my head she will keep me around to cover the bits she hasn't already learnt, I'll probably be put out to pasture or moved away to a corner where I can't do any damage after that.
Contrary to popular belief, without Margaret running the show there would be no T1 lithium, I offer tech advice where required and do the hands on stuff I can still do. Eventually we will either have to employ a pair of hands either Margaret or I can guide or close up shop, just the realities of life I guess. Fortunately Margaret is a very good student and has learnt a lot, the website is her doing not mine and if you read it you will recognise that because it is not written in my style at all.
T1 Terry
Ron-D said
05:43 PM Dec 6, 2018
Well my wife is the brains in our outfit as well there naturally more intelligent
I was a toolroom supervisor for 40 odd years & had to dumb down My tech. explanations to management so They could see where Their dollars were going.
I jotted down all the relevant points about L.A. batterys on to a sheet,
Separated the wheat from the chaff, stopped My brain hurting too!
Thanks everyone for Your input,
John.
Hi
I might think the OP's question was simple enough and could have been answered with a couple of qualified replies to a suitable accuracy.
But for some reason some people chose to reply with a lot of technical jargon mostly off the topic and pushing a couple of personal barrows. On and On and On and O,,,,,,,,,
Then for Terry to imply that it is a particularly technical problem with no easy answer is just BS. The usual putting down of LA and how simple lithium would be to answer.
Find another place to spout the BS and leave it to people who want a sensible answer, or there will be no people left looking here 
.
There would be hundreds of people out there with a similar battery and some panels who could have answered him but would not dare to, because they are reluctant to get in the sh*t fight that was obviously starting. The moderator should step in IMHO.
Jaahn
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:30:57 PM
-- Edited by Jaahn on Thursday 1st of November 2018 09:31:38 PM
Perfect answer nothing turns people off more than huge rants that go on and on,for no reason, I just ignor posts like that there self serving and very tedious ,a basic answer to a basic problem helps people,your right it destroys a good segment of the forum,simple answers to simple problems is what people want not Long winded boring Teco rants ,flogging the benefits of lithium batteries , I just dont bother reading his posts ...
Here ya go Jaahn, simplify this from an AGM battery manufacturer while keeping it factual to answer the Op's question, how long does it take to recharge a battery
Easy to shoot from the armchair, now time to startle us with your knowledge about lead acid batteries, because we haven't seen much of it sofar
T1 Terry
Fantastic Terry that should be a really big help to most people here
Something else to note, this is the charging regime used by the factory to recharge the battery when doing the cycle life testing, nothing like the charging regime used by just about every RV, so the factories cycle life should be viewed as an optimistic expected cycle life, even if viewed at the lower limit of the graph. In reality, if you get that many cycles and still have 60% of the advertised capacity remaining, you have done extremely well. Also keep in mind when viewing this chart thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65035593/how-long-to-charge/ the 50% graph means at the end of the 400 cycles there is only 10% capacity remaining before the 50% SOC point is reached (10Ah per 100Ah advertised capacity) and the 30% graph means you are discharging 30Ah per 100Ah advertised capacity when the battery was new, but at the end of the 1200 cycles you only have 30% of that 10 Ah, next to nothing, so at some stage you will be moving out of the 30% depth of discharge scale and into some where between the 50% and 30% graph and quite likely into the 100% graph near the end, but you won't actually realise it until the lights go out just after the sun goes down.
T1 Terry
The offer is open to you as well as Jaahn Peter, read my reply post to Jaahn and give that short clear and accurate reply. That way you can show just how clever you are .... or are not, which ever the case maybe
T1 Terry
Hi Terry
I could not be bothered, because all it would bring out is another long irrelevant load of bullS^* from your.
A simple "I can't" would have done Peter
T1 Terry
-- Edited by T1 Terry on Wednesday 21st of November 2018 12:23:54 PM
Back here AK https://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/t65035593/how-long-to-charge/?page=2#comment-65055327 the thread was then open to wander off on the usual track
driven by the usual suspects 
T1 Terry
Now that is the most sensible response I've seen for quite some time on this forum. All I'm doing is putting forward the differences between the 2 chemistries, I leave the decision up to the individual, only they know their needs and can weigh those against the initial cost differences. If you don't have the weight or free camping needs or don't expect to be still needing the life expectancy offered so the cost can't be amortised over time or resale value, then there is no value in upgrading is there?
T1 Terry
No It is simply too hard to teach a blind dog new tricks or more to the point it is loong painful task to try to teach anything electrical to some one who lacks the basic knowledge & understanding.
Come back when you advanced more than 6months in your electrical apprenticeship or is that 2weeks that you have completed
Terry your pushing lithium here to suit your own back pocket be honest...
:lol: If people who read this forum translated the information into off grid house installs then I'd agree, but that doesn't happen. I doubt I've gained one job through this forum and that doesn't worry me in the slightest because I'm not doing a promotion for my wife's business here. To be honest, there isn't much profit in RV installs in general if the job is done properly. Those that make money out of it cut corners and I'm not interested in doing that.
T1 Terry
Glad you dont cut corners Terry.you must be a cut above the rest,your wife must have a good business with you as an employee..
Well thank you Ron. We offer full back up support for every job we do so doing it right the first time saves us a lot of headaches and sometimes cross country trip to sort a problem. WA Perth area was about the longest caused by the semi flexible solar panel failure problems, so finding a solution was the first priority and then travelling around replacing the failed or potential to fail units with the upgraded design with blocking diodes for each panel.
Since the motor vehicle accident my head can not do the business side at all, I end up booking jobs one on top of the other, getting quotes completely wrong and often discovering there were no parts on hand to build the control systems or do the jobs when they arrived. Now my vision is getting foggy for close up work and the shakes, all from the medication side effects, means I can no longer really do the hands on control system building, so Margaret has stepped up to the plate and taken that over as well. I guess while I still have the knowledge accessible in my head she will keep me around to cover the bits she hasn't already learnt, I'll probably be put out to pasture or moved away to a corner where I can't do any damage after that.
Contrary to popular belief, without Margaret running the show there would be no T1 lithium, I offer tech advice where required and do the hands on stuff I can still do. Eventually we will either have to employ a pair of hands either Margaret or I can guide or close up shop, just the realities of life I guess. Fortunately Margaret is a very good student and has learnt a lot, the website is her doing not mine and if you read it you will recognise that because it is not written in my style at all.
T1 Terry
Well my wife is the brains in our outfit as well there naturally more intelligent