I ask you: how *do* you suggest I protect myself in the situation I described? The man was 10m from me (not 20m, I checked this morning) and clearly on the verge of doing me serious harm. Had the lights been 20 seconds longer changing to green he may well have attacked. What would you have me do, you people who sit comfortably at home behind your computers?
miroku12g said
05:00 PM Sep 18, 2018
Even if you did have a firearm [legally] and you only just pointed at him, then YOU have a problem as far as the law is concerned, and your firearm will almost certainly be taken from you, and the question will be asked as to why you had a gun in your car if you wasn't going to a practice session or a competition at a range.
Scary though as some people are so full of drugs they become hostile for no real reason.
Dave M
fwdoz said
05:10 PM Sep 18, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
I repeat:
I ask you: how *do* you suggest I protect myself in the situation I described? The man was 10m from me (not 20m, I checked this morning) and clearly on the verge of doing me serious harm. Had the lights been 20 seconds longer changing to green he may well have attacked. What would you have me do, you people who sit comfortably at home behind your computers?
Not sure there is much you can do Mike when confronted by a lunatic. About the only thing I can think of is to get away any way I could. If that meant driving across traffic to get away then so be it. That is provided you were not hemmed in completely.
Just like I was confronted in a back street, staying there was not an option; it was self preservation & get the hell out of there.
Mike Harding said
05:27 PM Sep 18, 2018
fwdoz wrote:Not sure there is much you can do Mike when confronted by a lunatic.
Exactly Bob, one is helpless and that is why no one has confronted the question because there is no solution under the current laws. We are at the mercy (or lack of it) of a thug perhaps high on drugs who does not give one jot what he does to you or your family - and there is no hope whatsoever of the police protecting you.
This is why I argue the law must be changed to make this situation more equal and give those of us who wish to live peaceably power to protect ourselves from the inevitable thugs, sadists and psychopaths in our midst.
If the State and society cannot provide a reasonable surety of personal safety for the individual then what use is it to me and why should I abide by its edicts which state I must make myself defenceless against being killed by nutters? I don't think that is reasonable, does anyone?
fwdoz said
05:41 PM Sep 18, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:This is why I argue the law must be changed to make this situation more equal and give those of us who wish to live peaceably power to protect ourselves from the inevitable thugs, sadists and psychopaths in our midst.
If the State and society cannot provide a reasonable surety of personal safety for the individual then what use is it to me and why should I abide by its edicts which state I must make myself defenceless against being killed by nutters? I don't think that is reasonable, does anyone?
I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen! It is hard to say what one would do, as usually some form of adrenalin kicks in as fear heightens.
In my incident, I had the choice to A) stay & get in a fight B) run the basta%d over or C) get the hell out of there. Luckily I had room to race backwards & spin my car around. If I had precious little choice otherwise, I dont think I would have hesitated to run the pri&k over.
blaze said
07:25 PM Sep 18, 2018
Mike
You had a better weapon than he did, you was sitting in it
cheers
blaze
Kebbin said
08:07 PM Sep 18, 2018
The Commodore rolls to a stop half on, half off the slip lane at the freeway entrance he's about 20m from me. The drivers door opens and a large, solid man aged between 30 and 40 gets out and begins screaming abuse at me and then begins waving a hand axe at me. I hit the central locking. I can't go forward but behind me is still clear I could try a racing reverse turn and hope I don't roll the little Getz I'm driving. He's still screaming and axe waving at me but I can't hear his words as the windows are closed and the AC is on. I sit looking at him rant and wondering how it must feel to carry so much anger around with you.
As you noted in your post Mike, you could have simply reversed as there was no one behind you.
Mike Harding said
09:15 AM Sep 19, 2018
Kebbin: You don't like me and I'm cool with that but try and look beyond your bias for one moment.
As I mentioned; the road was an 80kph four lane road with a concrete division in the centre, I was not keen on turning around and driving against the traffic which would be doing 80kph towards me when the previous traffic lights changed to green. If I had then I have *no* doubt whatsoever you would have chastised me for dangerous driving.
JackoFJR said
10:36 AM Sep 19, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
I repeat:
I ask you: how *do* you suggest I protect myself in the situation I described? The man was 10m from me (not 20m, I checked this morning) and clearly on the verge of doing me serious harm. Had the lights been 20 seconds longer changing to green he may well have attacked. What would you have me do, you people who sit comfortably at home behind your computers
--------------------------------------
I guess all you could do would be lock the doors , call 000 , yeah the police probably won't get there in time , hope he doesn't actually attack , fight back if it comes to it , hope others come to your aid ,
I really don't know what you want anyone to suggest , pull out that gun you have stashed under the seat and shoot him .
Kebbin said
11:20 AM Sep 19, 2018
I don't know you Mike and I tend to only like people that I have met and got to know, I'm not of the facebook generation that have thousands of friends they have never met. One thing I have noticed with your postings is you never seem to like the answers given because they are not your solution.
-- Edited by Kebbin on Wednesday 19th of September 2018 11:45:26 AM
The Belmont Bear said
11:41 AM Sep 19, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
Kebbin: You don't like me and I'm cool with that but try and look beyond your bias for one moment.
As I mentioned; the road was an 80kph four lane road with a concrete division in the centre, I was not keen on turning around and driving against the traffic which would be doing 80kph towards me when the previous traffic lights changed to green. If I had then I have *no* doubt whatsoever you would have chastised me for dangerous driving.
Mike seems that if anyone has a different point of view to you they are either key board warriors, they don,t like you or are somehow being bias. If you dont want to hear peoples opinions then dont create the post in the first place, I thought the idea of a forum was to get input from other members on different topics. By the way personally I neither like nor dislike you - we have never had the opportunity to meet so Im really am not in a position to make that sort of call.
I would like to ask you though did you report this incident to the police ? If you didnt take any action this maniac will still be free to run around the streets of Melbourne thinking that intimidation works...
BB
Mike Harding said
02:07 PM Sep 19, 2018
>Mike seems that if anyone has a different point of view to you they >are either key board warriors
You surely must admit BB it's very easy to be righteous when one is facing a computer rather than an armed assailant and we've seen some of that bias on this thread.
>I thought the idea of a forum was to get input from other members on >different topics.
And that's been the problem; no one has offered an alternative. In my initial post I suggested firearms laws needed change, people threw their hands up in horror but not one of them, you included, offered a viable alternative.
It seems to me the approach of you and many is to hope it doesn't happen to them and if it happens to others well... that's not your problem.
>I would like to ask you though did you report this incident to the >police ?
Yes I did. They said they would log it and I could make a statement if I wished but they didn't have very much to go on.
Oddly enough, when this happened, I was on my way to have lunch with a friend who is a lawyer. I related the tale to her and she said "Well, you could report it but I wouldn't waste my time".
Got to look after yourself in this world BB - no one is going to do it for you.
JackoFJR said
02:51 PM Sep 19, 2018
Mike like I said above exactly what do you think people could suggest , who knows what they might do it would depend on the situation is it a built up area , is there a escape route , other people around , what type of vehicles involved , is the offender armed and with what
What would I do in your situation, I have no idea I wasn't there .
Carrying a firearm yep that would be good , probably a good thing the bloke with the axe didn't have one
A long arm could be a bit awkward to handle quickly in a vehicle , so I guess you mean a Handgun , lobbying to change the gun laws have you tried , two chances of that .
If you has Dash Cam evidence I suspect the Police would of looked at it differently , did you ask the Lawer friend what difference video evidence would of made
-- Edited by JackoFJR on Wednesday 19th of September 2018 02:58:03 PM
SouthernComfort said
04:17 PM Sep 19, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
..."And that's been the problem; no one has offered an alternative. In my initial post I suggested firearms laws needed change, people threw their hands up in horror but not one of them, you included, offered a viable alternative"...
..."It seems to me the approach of you and many is to hope it doesn't happen to them and if it happens to others well... that's not your problem"....
Surely you jest!
You're blaming a system for failing to protect you, you're blaming a system for failing to allow us all to be armed, and you're blaming everyone on this forum for failing to come up with an idea that you might find acceptable. I'm sorry you had this awful experience, but so many people in here have taken the time to post their suggestions as to how they might tackle a similar predicament, along with simple ways to help gather evidence which might give the authorities something tangible to go on - and you've condemned them all. Guns aren't the answer, sorry if you're expecting everyone to agree with your opposite view.
DMaxer said
04:43 PM Sep 19, 2018
I am sure it was a terrifying event for you Mike and I agree, there are some lunatics out there who are also taking some pretty bad substances.
It is a shame that you did not have a description for the police that also included either a part or all of the miscreant's vehicle registration number. Given that, they can soon isolate and apprehend people very quickly. I have a few former clients inside who can vouch for that.
The best advice is as you haven't got this information, try and put it behind you and remember, for every imbecilic thug out there, there are thousands of good people who wish you no ill.
The Belmont Bear said
05:02 PM Sep 19, 2018
Mike you are 100% correct I never offered you a viable alternative because the guy never physically attacked you - you probably did the right thing by locking your doors and staying in your car so as not to provoke him any further. As Kebbin suggested if no one was behind you maybe you could of hit reverse (without doing the spin around thing). Maybe even Blaze's idea of using your car to defend yourself had some merit. Other alternative suggestions were around the use of dashcams, people did offeri you their ideas whether you thought that they were viable or not is another matter.
Actually you are wrong a serious road rage incident did happen to me when I was a lot younger and a little more naive. A mate and I were travelling home one night from a surfing trip on the old Pacific Highway in an isolated area south of Taree. We had come up behind a semi and had to follow him for awhile until I eventually got the opportunity to overtake. He swerved across the lanes as I was passing almost forcing me off the road. He then followed us down the hills and along the flats sitting about a mtr off my rear rear bumper with his high beam on and the airhorns blaring. I tried to outrun him up the hills but he would soon catch us up again going down the other side, when I finally was able to get a bit of a break on him we decided to turn off the lights, pull off the road into a small bush track and wait for him to go past. Unfortunately he must have seen our brake lights or something as we heard the truck coming then the air brakes being applied. Before we could do anything he was standing beside my car with a torch and a tyre lever threatening that if I ever drove behind him again with my headlights lights in his mirrors he would not only break us but my lights, windows and surfboards and just to emphasise his point he smashed the wing mirror off my car before storming off. I wasn't even aware that my lights had been in his mirrors - no I didn't report it to the police because I actually believed that I was in the wrong and being on Ps they would have suspended my licence..You know 45 odd years later when I drive through that area I still think of how terrified I was as a young 17 year old inexperienced driver - we could have easily been just another statistic because of that guys road rage...even if it wasn't called that back then.
Every situation will be different and there is no one answer on how to respond until it happens to you. I personally don't believe that carrying a gun is the best solution as it didn't work as a deterrent in places like SA and probably won't work over here either.. If you are unlucky enough to find youself in a road rage situation the best weapon you are going to have is the one that is between your ears. Glad to hear you actually reported the incident Mike even if nothing does come from it.
BB
PeterInSa said
06:27 PM Sep 19, 2018
re ( no one has offered an alternative.) I would definitely try to drive off, if necessary causing damage to my vehicle in the process, if blocked in and my Fire extinguisher was handy ( it is'nt, its located at the rear of our Cruiser, I would unleash the contents as the axe came thru the window.
( Cindy delete if this is an in appropriate comment Thanks)
Peter
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Wednesday 19th of September 2018 06:28:54 PM
the ginger nomad said
08:16 PM Sep 19, 2018
I can't resist this. you had the best weapon, you could have run over the B------d. Opps what would you have been charged with then. This is why i do not post very often as the "Arguments" detract fromn the original story. I hope that we never go down the path of USA re gun laws. What would you have done if you had a firearm?? I think reversing up the freeway would have been the best idea ,as i think that only about 5% nof people could do a racining reverse turn.
thats my view and now I am out of here.
Ron-D said
08:57 AM Sep 20, 2018
Mike now your subjected to internet rage,just kidding
Mike Harding said
09:40 AM Sep 20, 2018
Ron-D wrote:
Mike now your subjected to internet rage,just kidding
Yes, indeed :)
rockylizard said
09:45 AM Sep 20, 2018
Mike Harding wrote:
Exactly Bob, one is helpless and that is why no one has confronted the question because there is no solution under the current laws. We are at the mercy (or lack of it) of a thug perhaps high on drugs who does not give one jot what he does to you or your family - and there is no hope whatsoever of the police protecting you.
This is why I argue the law must be changed to make this situation more equal and give those of us who wish to live peaceably power to protect ourselves from the inevitable thugs, sadists and psychopaths in our midst.
If the State and society cannot provide a reasonable surety of personal safety for the individual then what use is it to me and why should I abide by its edicts which state I must make myself defenceless against being killed by nutters? I don't think that is reasonable, does anyone?
Gday...
I can fully understand your fear at the time, and frustration/s since. However, your comment above sums it up really.
There are no suggestions that will appease you because the incident is now in the past, the circumstances may never again raise their head and every one of us would react completely differently in those circumstances.
If you expected to get a 'perfect' solution to how to handle an axe-wielding thug - whether as road rage or simply confronted in the street/pub/cinema/cafe or wherever - you were destined to be very disappointed from the minute you clicked "Submit Post" at the beginning.
Move on Mike, file it under "very lucky this time" and hope it never happens again.
Personally, I would not want to see the law changed so that people could carry LOADED handguns in their vehicles "just in case" they met an axe-wielding person.
I worked in the Philippines for a year or so a few years ago ... they all have handguns in the glovebox, and guards at every shopping centre and enclosed living area with side-arms and long-arms ... not a very relaxed place really.
Maybe, it is time you hit the road and got out in the bush and feel a bit safer and relaxed.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 20th of September 2018 09:45:41 AM
I repeat:
I ask you: how *do* you suggest I protect myself in the situation I
described? The man was 10m from me (not 20m, I checked this morning)
and clearly on the verge of doing me serious harm. Had the lights
been 20 seconds longer changing to green he may well have attacked.
What would you have me do, you people who sit comfortably at home
behind your computers?
Scary though as some people are so full of drugs they become hostile for no real reason.
Dave M
Not sure there is much you can do Mike when confronted by a lunatic. About the only thing I can think of is to get away any way I could. If that meant driving across traffic to get away then so be it. That is provided you were not hemmed in completely.
Just like I was confronted in a back street, staying there was not an option; it was self preservation & get the hell out of there.
Exactly Bob, one is helpless and that is why no one has confronted the question because there is no solution under the current laws. We are at the mercy (or lack of it) of a thug perhaps high on drugs who does not give one jot what he does to you or your family - and there is no hope whatsoever of the police protecting you.
This is why I argue the law must be changed to make this situation more equal and give those of us who wish to live peaceably power to protect ourselves from the inevitable thugs, sadists and psychopaths in our midst.
If the State and society cannot provide a reasonable surety of personal safety for the individual then what use is it to me and why should I abide by its edicts which state I must make myself defenceless against being killed by nutters? I don't think that is reasonable, does anyone?
I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen! It is hard to say what one would do, as usually some form of adrenalin kicks in as fear heightens.
In my incident, I had the choice to A) stay & get in a fight B) run the basta%d over or C) get the hell out of there. Luckily I had room to race backwards & spin my car around. If I had precious little choice otherwise, I dont think I would have hesitated to run the pri&k over.
You had a better weapon than he did, you was sitting in it
cheers
blaze
The Commodore rolls to a stop half on, half off the slip lane at the
freeway entrance he's about 20m from me. The drivers door opens and a
large, solid man aged between 30 and 40 gets out and begins screaming
abuse at me and then begins waving a hand axe at me. I hit the
central locking. I can't go forward but behind me is still clear I
could try a racing reverse turn and hope I don't roll the little Getz
I'm driving. He's still screaming and axe waving at me but I can't
hear his words as the windows are closed and the AC is on. I sit
looking at him rant and wondering how it must feel to carry so much
anger around with you.
As you noted in your post Mike, you could have simply reversed as there was no one behind you.
Kebbin: You don't like me and I'm cool with that but try and look
beyond your bias for one moment.
As I mentioned; the road was an 80kph four lane road with a concrete
division in the centre, I was not keen on turning around and driving
against the traffic which would be doing 80kph towards me when the
previous traffic lights changed to green. If I had then I have *no*
doubt whatsoever you would have chastised me for dangerous driving.
--------------------------------------
I guess all you could do would be lock the doors , call 000 , yeah the police probably won't get there in time , hope he doesn't actually attack , fight back if it comes to it , hope others come to your aid ,
I really don't know what you want anyone to suggest , pull out that gun you have stashed under the seat and shoot him .
I don't know you Mike and I tend to only like people that I have met and got to know, I'm not of the facebook generation that have thousands of friends they have never met. One thing I have noticed with your postings is you never seem to like the answers given because they are not your solution.
-- Edited by Kebbin on Wednesday 19th of September 2018 11:45:26 AM
Mike seems that if anyone has a different point of view to you they are either key board warriors, they don,t like you or are somehow being bias. If you dont want to hear peoples opinions then dont create the post in the first place, I thought the idea of a forum was to get input from other members on different topics. By the way personally I neither like nor dislike you - we have never had the opportunity to meet so Im really am not in a position to make that sort of call.
I would like to ask you though did you report this incident to the police ? If you didnt take any action this maniac will still be free to run around the streets of Melbourne thinking that intimidation works...
BB
>Mike seems that if anyone has a different point of view to you they
>are either key board warriors
You surely must admit BB it's very easy to be righteous when one is
facing a computer rather than an armed assailant and we've seen some
of that bias on this thread.
>I thought the idea of a forum was to get input from other members on
>different topics.
And that's been the problem; no one has offered an alternative. In my
initial post I suggested firearms laws needed change, people threw
their hands up in horror but not one of them, you included, offered a
viable alternative.
It seems to me the approach of you and many is to hope it doesn't
happen to them and if it happens to others well... that's not your
problem.
>I would like to ask you though did you report this incident to the
>police ?
Yes I did. They said they would log it and I could make a statement
if I wished but they didn't have very much to go on.
Oddly enough, when this happened, I was on my way to have lunch with
a friend who is a lawyer. I related the tale to her and she said
"Well, you could report it but I wouldn't waste my time".
Got to look after yourself in this world BB - no one is going to do
it for you.
Mike like I said above exactly what do you think people could suggest , who knows what they might do it would depend on the situation
is it a built up area , is there a escape route , other people around , what type of vehicles involved , is the offender armed and with what
What would I do in your situation, I have no idea I wasn't there .
Carrying a firearm yep that would be good , probably a good thing the bloke with the axe didn't have one
A long arm could be a bit awkward to handle quickly in a vehicle , so I guess you mean a Handgun , lobbying to change the gun laws have you tried , two chances of that .
If you has Dash Cam evidence I suspect the Police would of looked at it differently , did you ask the Lawer friend what difference video evidence would of made
-- Edited by JackoFJR on Wednesday 19th of September 2018 02:58:03 PM
Surely you jest!
You're blaming a system for failing to protect you, you're blaming a system for failing to allow us all to be armed, and you're blaming everyone on this forum for failing to come up with an idea that you might find acceptable. I'm sorry you had this awful experience, but so many people in here have taken the time to post their suggestions as to how they might tackle a similar predicament, along with simple ways to help gather evidence which might give the authorities something tangible to go on - and you've condemned them all. Guns aren't the answer, sorry if you're expecting everyone to agree with your opposite view.
I am sure it was a terrifying event for you Mike and I agree, there are some lunatics out there who are also taking some pretty bad substances.
It is a shame that you did not have a description for the police that also included either a part or all of the miscreant's vehicle registration number. Given that, they can soon isolate and apprehend people very quickly. I have a few former clients inside who can vouch for that.
The best advice is as you haven't got this information, try and put it behind you and remember, for every imbecilic thug out there, there are thousands of good people who wish you no ill.
Mike you are 100% correct I never offered you a viable alternative because the guy never physically attacked you - you probably did the right thing by locking your doors and staying in your car so as not to provoke him any further. As Kebbin suggested if no one was behind you maybe you could of hit reverse (without doing the spin around thing). Maybe even Blaze's idea of using your car to defend yourself had some merit. Other alternative suggestions were around the use of dashcams, people did offeri you their ideas whether you thought that they were viable or not is another matter.
Actually you are wrong a serious road rage incident did happen to me when I was a lot younger and a little more naive. A mate and I were travelling home one night from a surfing trip on the old Pacific Highway in an isolated area south of Taree. We had come up behind a semi and had to follow him for awhile until I eventually got the opportunity to overtake. He swerved across the lanes as I was passing almost forcing me off the road. He then followed us down the hills and along the flats sitting about a mtr off my rear rear bumper with his high beam on and the airhorns blaring. I tried to outrun him up the hills but he would soon catch us up again going down the other side, when I finally was able to get a bit of a break on him we decided to turn off the lights, pull off the road into a small bush track and wait for him to go past. Unfortunately he must have seen our brake lights or something as we heard the truck coming then the air brakes being applied. Before we could do anything he was standing beside my car with a torch and a tyre lever threatening that if I ever drove behind him again with my headlights lights in his mirrors he would not only break us but my lights, windows and surfboards and just to emphasise his point he smashed the wing mirror off my car before storming off. I wasn't even aware that my lights had been in his mirrors - no I didn't report it to the police because I actually believed that I was in the wrong and being on Ps they would have suspended my licence..You know 45 odd years later when I drive through that area I still think of how terrified I was as a young 17 year old inexperienced driver - we could have easily been just another statistic because of that guys road rage...even if it wasn't called that back then.
Every situation will be different and there is no one answer on how to respond until it happens to you. I personally don't believe that carrying a gun is the best solution as it didn't work as a deterrent in places like SA and probably won't work over here either.. If you are unlucky enough to find youself in a road rage situation the best weapon you are going to have is the one that is between your ears. Glad to hear you actually reported the incident Mike even if nothing does come from it.
BB
re ( no one has offered an alternative.)
I would definitely try to drive off, if necessary causing damage to my vehicle in the process, if blocked in and my Fire extinguisher was handy ( it is'nt, its located at the rear of our Cruiser, I would unleash the contents as the axe came thru the window.
( Cindy delete if this is an in appropriate comment Thanks)
Peter
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Wednesday 19th of September 2018 06:28:54 PM
thats my view and now I am out of here.
Mike now your subjected to internet rage,just kidding
Yes, indeed :)
Gday...
I can fully understand your fear at the time, and frustration/s since. However, your comment above sums it up really.
There are no suggestions that will appease you because the incident is now in the past, the circumstances may never again raise their head and every one of us would react completely differently in those circumstances.
If you expected to get a 'perfect' solution to how to handle an axe-wielding thug - whether as road rage or simply confronted in the street/pub/cinema/cafe or wherever - you were destined to be very disappointed from the minute you clicked "Submit Post" at the beginning.
Move on Mike, file it under "very lucky this time" and hope it never happens again.
Personally, I would not want to see the law changed so that people could carry LOADED handguns in their vehicles "just in case" they met an axe-wielding person.
I worked in the Philippines for a year or so a few years ago ... they all have handguns in the glovebox, and guards at every shopping centre and enclosed living area with side-arms and long-arms ... not a very relaxed place really.
Maybe, it is time you hit the road and got out in the bush and feel a bit safer and relaxed.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 20th of September 2018 09:45:41 AM