Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to live in a flood area Simmo!!!!!
Actually sandsmere, that flood was 5 years ago now and the Govt has spent $80 million on Flood Mitigation bund walls and raised roads etc, and it hasn't been acid tested yet. So we wait with baited breath. Also that event was the highest level in ever recorded, so with a bit of luck it might be 150 years before it happens again. If it is 150 years, I promise not to say a word.
Simmo.
rockylizard said
02:34 PM Dec 29, 2015
Young Simmo wrote:
sandsmere wrote:
Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to live in a flood area Simmo!!!!!
Actually sandsmere, that flood was 5 years ago now and the Govt has spent $80 million on Flood Mitigation bund walls and raised roads etc, and it hasn't been acid tested yet. So we wait with baited breath. Also that event was the highest level in ever recorded, so with a bit of luck it might be 150 years before it happens again. If it is 150 years, I promise not to say a word.
Simmo.
Gday...
Simmo, Maaaaaaaaate your first post said -
Young Simmo wrote:
I hope I am not out of order with this comment but, after watching to-nights news with the vision repeated over and over I am a bit stunned. While I feel very sad and sorry for all the people that have lost their homes in the fires in Vic, seeing all those places with bush and trees growing right up to their front and back doors makes me wonder. I am trying to be tackfull but, I wouldn't set off on a 100 Km drive with enough fuel for 50 Kms.
I expect some flack, but that's life.
Simmo.
So ... given your initial post where you feel that there should be no consideration for fools who build where the bush is up close to their homes because they are prone to disaster, how on earth can you then justify your living in a 'flood-prone' area - albeit with $80million spent on 'flood mitigation' when it is almost guaranteed that a flood will again happen.
There had not been a bushfire in the Otway ranges since 1964 - and I have absolutely no idea of any 'fuel-reduction' efforts in the past 51 years in that area.
Yes, there was bush ..... yes, there was every chance a bush fire would sometime eventuate .... yes, they should have kept the area around their homes clearer ..... but on the other hand, if a flood occurs AGAIN in and around and through your home, should we also just say "tough luck Simmo and all the other residents" live with it.
Cheers - no matter where we build or live or travel there is POTENTIAL for catastrophe ... despite our best efforts - John
Young Simmo said
03:21 PM Dec 29, 2015
rockylizard , Considering I said ::: I hope I am not out of order with this comment but, after watching to-nights news with the vision repeated over and over I am a bit stunned. While I feel very sad and sorryfor all the people that have lost their homes in the fires in Vic, seeing all those places with bush and trees growing right up to their front and back doors makes me wonder. I am trying to be tackfull but, I wouldn't set off on a 100 Km drive with enough fuel for 50 Kms.
I expect some flack, but that's life.
*****************************
So your quote of "feel that there should be no consideration for fools",is your comment not mine.
Here we go again. I also have trees with in 10 feet of my front door. Please do not tell me my lawn needs cutting, tell my wife.
Simmo.
-- Edited by Webmaster on Tuesday 29th of December 2015 05:42:13 PM
In WA, the National Parks staff (who usually carry out the prescribed burning in parks which is often where fires originate from) got it wrong not too long ago down in Southern WA and the out of control fire burnt out many homes. As a result, some staff got sacked or disciplined (rightly or wrongly, who knows) and their replacements now are so scared of stuffing up, along with funding cutbacks from the State govt, that the burning got way behind and it wasn't till we had a large fire in the Perth Hills last year, that someone grew man things and started getting into the burnoffs again - but it will take years before they catch up - even with lack of funding.
But it still amazes me when I drive through the Perth Hills that many of the homes (and theyre mostly city workers who haven't grown up in the bush) are closely surrounded by bush and long dead grass and most of them are in gullies. Fire and emergency staff wont have a hope in hell if theres another fire there.
My concern are with the Fire staff - most volunteers - who risk their lives fighting fires in these sort of areas when they shouldn't have happened. (and of course there are areas where all the precautions have been taken - especially in farming areas - where the fire is in National Parks and grain crops - beyond residents control. These folk do need our sympathy and help
brickies said
11:05 AM Dec 30, 2015
Maybe the heads that be should get some advice from first owner of the Northern Territory on how to do burn offs , To reduce fire loads
jules47 said
04:53 PM Dec 30, 2015
Young Simmo - I have held back putting a post up on this thread, because I just didn't believe anyone could be so unfeeling as to publicly air their opinions during such a sad time for a lot of people.
During the Black Saturday fires in Victoria a few years ago, watching the TV was so sad, couldn't help but cry for people losing everything they own. No amount of money from insurers or fundraising will ever replace the things they have lost - family photos, heirlooms, and so many other items people have in their homes. I had friends in Marysville, which was almost totally destroyed, and we didn't hear from them for about three days, when a phone call came to say they were both ok - we burst into tears, though they had lost a new caravan, and their farm house and contents, some of which were antique.
The Brisbane floods a few years ago were also an eye opener, I was working in a recovery centre, and one young man didn't know where his partner was, alive or dead, he was clutching his baby son, would not let him go, let me hold him while sitting right beside him, as he had to fill out some paperwork. One lady could not believe that people on the hill behind them were having a bbq, standing on their patio laughing at people trying desperately to save their precious items. There was looting as the waters receded - how low is that?
Ok - trees, bushes, etc., right up to their houses - hey they live in the bush - if they wanted to live in a sterile environment, they would be living in a city or suburb with no trees. Also in lots of areas, you are not allowed to cu nativet trees down, unless they are in the way of your original building plan. We had a huge gum tree in our yard which had been declared by a council worker, so we couldn't cut it down - ten weeks later that tree split in half, taking the fence, neighbours pergola and the back corner of my house with it - the SES arborist said the tree was rotten inside.
We need to have empathy for people in times of disaster - not criticise them - some people need to get their brain into order before making statements or comments.
My thoughts for what they are worth.
The Phantom said
11:34 AM Dec 31, 2015
Good post Jules.
It looks as though you have called out most of those without any compassion for people in dire circumstances. They have been quite conspicuous by their lack of comment to your post.
Have a great New Year
The Phantom
Young Simmo said
01:42 PM Dec 31, 2015
jules47 wrote:
Young Simmo - I have held back putting a post up on this thread, because I just didn't believe anyone could be so unfeeling as to publicly air their opinions during such a sad time for a lot of people.
During the Black Saturday fires in Victoria a few years ago, watching the TV was so sad, couldn't help but cry for people losing everything they own. No amount of money from insurers or fundraising will ever replace the things they have lost - family photos, heirlooms, and so many other items people have in their homes. I had friends in Marysville, which was almost totally destroyed, and we didn't hear from them for about three days, when a phone call came to say they were both ok - we burst into tears, though they had lost a new caravan, and their farm house and contents, some of which were antique.
The Brisbane floods a few years ago were also an eye opener, I was working in a recovery centre, and one young man didn't know where his partner was, alive or dead, he was clutching his baby son, would not let him go, let me hold him while sitting right beside him, as he had to fill out some paperwork. One lady could not believe that people on the hill behind them were having a bbq, standing on their patio laughing at people trying desperately to save their precious items. There was looting as the waters receded - how low is that?
Ok - trees, bushes, etc., right up to their houses - hey they live in the bush - if they wanted to live in a sterile environment, they would be living in a city or suburb with no trees. Also in lots of areas, you are not allowed to cu nativet trees down, unless they are in the way of your original building plan. We had a huge gum tree in our yard which had been declared by a council worker, so we couldn't cut it down - ten weeks later that tree split in half, taking the fence, neighbours pergola and the back corner of my house with it - the SES arborist said the tree was rotten inside.
We need to have empathy for people in times of disaster - not criticise them - some people need to get their brain into order before making statements or comments.
My thoughts for what they are worth.
jules47, If you read my post again, I didn't bag anybody I just broached the subject. Also if you want to go through life only hearing nice stories, BRACE yourself.
Simmo.
sandsmere said
02:15 PM Dec 31, 2015
Good stuff Jules. And 100% right.
Happy New year.
jules47 said
03:03 PM Dec 31, 2015
Thanks Phantom and Sandsmere - had to say it - I thought YS post was totally without empathy, even though he "qualified" his words.
Happy New Year to you both as well, and your families!
Young Simmo said
03:24 PM Dec 31, 2015
OK I will pretend it is a perfect world and all Grey Nomads are right, and I am wrong, or at least l'm not in the back patting camp. Simmo.
The Phantom said
03:48 PM Dec 31, 2015
Simmo, you raised the issue but were followed by a number of others that showed a little less empathy. You are not the only critic, so don't take it too much to heart.
The Phantom
-- Edited by The Phantom on Thursday 31st of December 2015 03:48:58 PM
rockylizard said
08:30 AM Jan 2, 2016
Gday...
On reflection, perhaps we are a bit hard on Simmo.
Let's imagine if sensibility was applied to the choices of residence and industrial activities to alleviate the overall cost to communities supporting those who put themselves, apparently willingly, in the face of catastrophe.
Communities where there is the potential for cyclone should be made to relocate to areas where they will not be exposed to the forces of nature.
Communities where there is the potential for drought should be made to relocate to areas where they will not experience water shortages.
Communities that are near waterways should be made to relocate to areas that have no waterways with the potential to cause damage and loss of property and infrastructure.
Communities that are in areas that have the potential for torrential rain should be made to move to areas where the rainfall is less volatile.
Communities that are in areas with the potential for bushfire should be made to move to areas where the incidence of bushfire is minimal.
I think the governments, Federal, State and Local, should have a special conference to develop legislation and guidelines to ensure that communities are relocated to, and only developed in, areas that are sensible, stable and less catastrophically prone to disaster.
The savings on the public purse would be horrendous and insurance premiums could not only be lowered but could quite probably be discontinued completely as there would be nothing to insure against.
It is the first week of 2016, surely we should focus on achieving these changes to allow for a better future for our country.
Cheers - John
iana said
11:01 AM Jan 2, 2016
The basic house designs that we build to have been around for thousands of years. With the climate becoming more severe, maybe we should be looking at designs that can survive in these instances. In Europe they build houses that can float and raise with rising flood levels. To fire proof our houses maybe we should be building underground, or at least level with the ground, a concrete roof. That will also help with the cooling etc. Cooper Peddie for example.
03_Troopy said
12:13 PM Jan 2, 2016
rockylizard wrote:
Gday...
On reflection, perhaps we are a bit hard on Simmo.
Let's imagine if sensibility was applied to the choices of residence and industrial activities to alleviate the overall cost to communities supporting those who put themselves, apparently willingly, in the face of catastrophe.
Communities where there is the potential for cyclone should be made to relocate to areas where they will not be exposed to the forces of nature.
Communities where there is the potential for drought should be made to relocate to areas where they will not experience water shortages.
Communities that are near waterways should be made to relocate to areas that have no waterways with the potential to cause damage and loss of property and infrastructure.
Communities that are in areas that have the potential for torrential rain should be made to move to areas where the rainfall is less volatile.
Communities that are in areas with the potential for bushfire should be made to move to areas where the incidence of bushfire is minimal.
I think the governments, Federal, State and Local, should have a special conference to develop legislation and guidelines to ensure that communities are relocated to, and only developed in, areas that are sensible, stable and less catastrophically prone to disaster.
The savings on the public purse would be horrendous and insurance premiums could not only be lowered but could quite probably be discontinued completely as there would be nothing to insure against.
It is the first week of 2016, surely we should focus on achieving these changes to allow for a better future for our country.
Cheers - John
hahaha, interesting post John. Any places left in Australia that would meet those stipulations?
jules47 said
12:57 PM Jan 2, 2016
We - the people - would like to see this, but our governments have different agenda - how could you get them all to agree to a meeting, let alone make a sensible decision for the people who pay their salaries!
Good post though John Happy New Year to you!
Aus-Kiwi said
01:12 PM Jan 2, 2016
Cruised through there a few months back . Every 10 minutes I said to the Mrs .. Look at the long grass in there . God help then if fire ever starts here !! If they don't want back burning ? Atleast trim the long dead grass . Wood outside buildings such as patios etc make a fuse to burn through house also .
Young Simmo said
01:54 PM Jan 2, 2016
OK I won that one, and to keep things ticking over I will divert a little on the same general subject. Also this indicates we are not the only mugs on this Earth.
I have seen a lot of News reports lately of all the Monstrous Tornado damage in the USA. The one thing in all the vision that sticks out to me is, almost all their house and buildings appear to be made of skinny timber and match sticks. With Tornados being an annual event, probably more consistent than our Bush Fires, I would have thought that Bricks and Mortar and Concrete might have been a handy little trick. Even steel frame might not be a bad idea.
OK I am ready,,,,,,,,,,,Where am I grossly wrong?
Simmo.
jules47 said
10:42 PM Jan 2, 2016
Hey Simmo - you aren't wrong - it does make more sense in a tornado or cyclone area, to build to the prevailing conditions - strong, with a solid foundation is the go. But I have noticed in movies that a lot of American houses are timber, not brick - and I suppose people in very rural areas might not hav e access to bricks or steel frames?
What do you think?
(ps - don't tell anyone, but I like your posts, but i also say what I mean, we are all different!)
Young Simmo said
12:00 AM Jan 3, 2016
jules47 wrote:
Hey Simmo - you aren't wrong - it does make more sense in a tornado or cyclone area, to build to the prevailing conditions - strong, with a solid foundation is the go. But I have noticed in movies that a lot of American houses are timber, not brick - and I suppose people in very rural areas might not hav e access to bricks or steel frames?
What do you think?
(ps - don't tell anyone, but I like your posts, but i also say what I mean, we are all different!)
No worries jules47, I like a challenge and a bit of a competition, but at this very minute in time, The Scorchers only need 4 runs to wrap up the Sydney mob, Oop's game over. Now I can get down to the serious business of making friends on The Grey Nomads.
Like your Australian flag....
Stupidity....you see it on the road everyday.
Actually sandsmere, that flood was 5 years ago now and the Govt has spent $80 million on Flood Mitigation bund walls and raised roads etc, and it hasn't been acid tested yet. So we wait with baited breath. Also that event was the highest level in ever recorded, so with a bit of luck it might be 150 years before it happens again. If it is 150 years, I promise not to say a word.
Simmo.
Gday...
Simmo, Maaaaaaaaate
your first post said -
So ... given your initial post where you feel that there should be no consideration for fools who build where the bush is up close to their homes because they are prone to disaster, how on earth can you then justify your living in a 'flood-prone' area - albeit with $80million spent on 'flood mitigation' when it is almost guaranteed that a flood will again happen.
There had not been a bushfire in the Otway ranges since 1964 - and I have absolutely no idea of any 'fuel-reduction' efforts in the past 51 years in that area.
Yes, there was bush ..... yes, there was every chance a bush fire would sometime eventuate .... yes, they should have kept the area around their homes clearer ..... but on the other hand, if a flood occurs AGAIN in and around and through your home, should we also just say "tough luck Simmo and all the other residents" live with it.
Cheers - no matter where we build or live or travel there is POTENTIAL for catastrophe ... despite our best efforts - John
rockylizard , Considering I said ::: I hope I am not out of order with this comment but, after watching to-nights news with the vision repeated over and over I am a bit stunned. While I feel very sad and sorry for all the people that have lost their homes in the fires in Vic, seeing all those places with bush and trees growing right up to their front and back doors makes me wonder. I am trying to be tackfull but, I wouldn't set off on a 100 Km drive with enough fuel for 50 Kms.
I expect some flack, but that's life.
*****************************
So your quote of "feel that there should be no consideration for fools", is your comment not mine.
Here we go again. I also have trees with in 10 feet of my front door. Please do not tell me my lawn needs cutting, tell my wife.
Simmo.
-- Edited by Webmaster on Tuesday 29th of December 2015 05:42:13 PM
But it still amazes me when I drive through the Perth Hills that many of the homes (and theyre mostly city workers who haven't grown up in the bush) are closely surrounded by bush and long dead grass and most of them are in gullies. Fire and emergency staff wont have a hope in hell if theres another fire there.
My concern are with the Fire staff - most volunteers - who risk their lives fighting fires in these sort of areas when they shouldn't have happened. (and of course there are areas where all the precautions have been taken - especially in farming areas - where the fire is in National Parks and grain crops - beyond residents control. These folk do need our sympathy and help
During the Black Saturday fires in Victoria a few years ago, watching the TV was so sad, couldn't help but cry for people losing everything they own. No amount of money from insurers or fundraising will ever replace the things they have lost - family photos, heirlooms, and so many other items people have in their homes. I had friends in Marysville, which was almost totally destroyed, and we didn't hear from them for about three days, when a phone call came to say they were both ok - we burst into tears, though they had lost a new caravan, and their farm house and contents, some of which were antique.
The Brisbane floods a few years ago were also an eye opener, I was working in a recovery centre, and one young man didn't know where his partner was, alive or dead, he was clutching his baby son, would not let him go, let me hold him while sitting right beside him, as he had to fill out some paperwork. One lady could not believe that people on the hill behind them were having a bbq, standing on their patio laughing at people trying desperately to save their precious items. There was looting as the waters receded - how low is that?
Ok - trees, bushes, etc., right up to their houses - hey they live in the bush - if they wanted to live in a sterile environment, they would be living in a city or suburb with no trees. Also in lots of areas, you are not allowed to cu nativet trees down, unless they are in the way of your original building plan. We had a huge gum tree in our yard which had been declared by a council worker, so we couldn't cut it down - ten weeks later that tree split in half, taking the fence, neighbours pergola and the back corner of my house with it - the SES arborist said the tree was rotten inside.
We need to have empathy for people in times of disaster - not criticise them - some people need to get their brain into order before making statements or comments.
My thoughts for what they are worth.
Good post Jules.
It looks as though you have called out most of those without any compassion for people in dire circumstances. They have been quite conspicuous by their lack of comment to your post.
Have a great New Year
The Phantom
jules47, If you read my post again, I didn't bag anybody I just broached the subject. Also if you want to go through life only hearing nice stories, BRACE yourself.
Simmo.
Good stuff Jules. And 100% right.
Happy New year.
Happy New Year to you both as well, and your families!
OK I will pretend it is a perfect world and all Grey Nomads are right,
and I am wrong, or at least l'm not in the back patting camp.
Simmo.
Simmo, you raised the issue but were followed by a number of others that showed a little less empathy. You are not the only critic, so don't take it too much to heart.
The Phantom
-- Edited by The Phantom on Thursday 31st of December 2015 03:48:58 PM
Gday...
On reflection, perhaps we are a bit hard on Simmo.
Let's imagine if sensibility was applied to the choices of residence and industrial activities to alleviate the overall cost to communities supporting those who put themselves, apparently willingly, in the face of catastrophe.
Communities where there is the potential for cyclone should be made to relocate to areas where they will not be exposed to the forces of nature.
Communities where there is the potential for drought should be made to relocate to areas where they will not experience water shortages.
Communities that are near waterways should be made to relocate to areas that have no waterways with the potential to cause damage and loss of property and infrastructure.
Communities that are in areas that have the potential for torrential rain should be made to move to areas where the rainfall is less volatile.
Communities that are in areas with the potential for bushfire should be made to move to areas where the incidence of bushfire is minimal.
I think the governments, Federal, State and Local, should have a special conference to develop legislation and guidelines to ensure that communities are relocated to, and only developed in, areas that are sensible, stable and less catastrophically prone to disaster.
The savings on the public purse would be horrendous and insurance premiums could not only be lowered but could quite probably be discontinued completely as there would be nothing to insure against.
It is the first week of 2016, surely we should focus on achieving these changes to allow for a better future for our country.
Cheers - John
hahaha, interesting post John. Any places left in Australia that would meet those stipulations?
Good post though John Happy New Year to you!
OK I won that one, and to keep things ticking over I will divert a little on the same general subject. Also this indicates we are not the only mugs on this Earth.
I have seen a lot of News reports lately of all the Monstrous Tornado damage in the USA. The one thing in all the vision that sticks out to me is, almost all their house and buildings appear to be made of skinny timber and match sticks. With Tornados being an annual event, probably more consistent than our Bush Fires, I would have thought that Bricks and Mortar and Concrete might have been a handy little trick. Even steel frame might not be a bad idea.
OK I am ready,,,,,,,,,,,Where am I grossly wrong?
Simmo.
What do you think?
(ps - don't tell anyone, but I like your posts, but i also say what I mean, we are all different!)
No worries jules47, I like a challenge and a bit of a competition, but at this very minute in time, The Scorchers only need 4 runs to wrap up the Sydney mob, Oop's game over. Now I can get down to the serious business of making friends on The Grey Nomads.
Cheers mate,,,,,,Simmo.