I dont think that anyone is knocking caravan park owners or those of us who use them. It is about freedom of choice in a consumer based free enterprise society. We get annoyed sby the caravan park lobby and the individual owners who use their influence on local councils to have freedom camps closed down. The majority of the caravan park owners are great folk and hard workers but this constant attack on our free choice to freedom camp is wearing thin. West Aus is in the process of going through this and potentially mucking up land owners ie farmers, from offering cheap sites on vacant paddocks.
I once got an email from a nice guy who owned a caravan park in tassie. He explained that because he was very inv8lved in his local community and wantedto make a go of his business, that I (we) should not have the right to freedom camp in his district. Or use the local, rate payed for public facilities as he can provide them. Sorry. But that is illogical. He should not have the right then to sell shop items or rent cabins. I am happy to stay in his caravan park occasionally, and will support his community by spending in the area, but he has no right to insist that as he is a local, I must support him. Sort of like the local surfers keeping visitors off their waves. When the guy retires and travels to my aussie community on the mainland, he is welcome to use the facilities that my rates pay for, the toilets, bbq, footpaths etc. We are in danger of ushering in a communist state. Restriction on free enterprise and our demand driven economy. You guys worked hard and made you money due to this free enterprise economy. You identified your market and provide what the market needed and thus, profited from it. Well done.
The caravan park lobby is conning their local councils and the local business owners in their shires and region. They are in fact working against the very feature that will make them the profits that they need to sustain their business. And yes, I was also a multipe small business owner and understand the role that competition and market forces play. I wrote a paper on freedom camping which is in this forum somewhere.
jules47 said
11:11 PM Oct 25, 2015
We are in WA at the moment, and lots of people we meet are talking about the "proposed" legislation re camping. As you know there was a get together over here, held at the property of "sufil". I think we had about 13 vans motorhomes, rooftops, as well as sufil's own van, which they live in on the property, their travelling caravan, and another for grandkids overstays or whatever.
This event cost nothing - Sue and Phil provide the property only, and bore water, which is drinkable. If this legislation passes - they would have to get a permit for an "event", which covers only seven days! Several of us were at Seabird before the weekend, and stayed on afterwards, so you would need at least a month to make it fair.
There is apparently a lot of rigmarole you have to go through as well - OH&S, insurance, etc., etc. and Sue and Phil would have to go through all of this, as well as pay for the permit!
West Australia is shooting itself in the foot if they allow this to be made law!!! We would not come back again if we had to move every three days! It is ridiculous!!!!
Once upon a time a long time ago the story goes we all lived happily in the land of Oz and we packed up our tent or our caravan and went and spent 3 weeks in a caravan park by the beach. Time changes and trends change then we became mobile travellers and tended to want to keep on the move and enjoy our freedom. Then along came vested interests and convinced the Qld Government to stop overnighting in rest areas. That was a roaring success and Peter Beattie had to back pedal quick smart to save the tourism industry in Qld. The Tasmanian government made the same mistake thanks to the complaints of just 4 yess just 4 caravan parks. They eventually learned there lesson. The NSW CP Association made some grand statement at a government enquiry to try and close down rest areas in NSW, the SA Association wrote to all council demanding no freedom camps within 20 k of a CP. The Qld and Vic Associations let loose a tirade of "facts" to all councils when the CMCA announced it was going to build its own member camps sites
WHO STARTED THIS FIGHT against our freedom to choose what level of accommodation we wanted. Not us. It is a fight they cannot win as ultimately the consumer will decide who they support. The consumer is all powerful in the real world and it is high time the CP associations realised that, if they continue down their present path instead of realising they have to adapt to the market then they are doomed. I prefer to think there are some smart business people out there in the industry and we are seeing gradual change.
-- Edited by Bugsy on Monday 26th of October 2015 09:39:06 AM
brickies said
08:18 AM Oct 26, 2015
I free camp but not in a town area , When I free camp I spend money in the town, When I stay in a a caravan park I still spend the same amount in the town , So I don't follow the line that only free campers spend money in small towns .
03_Troopy said
08:27 AM Oct 26, 2015
I only spend money when I need to buy something, and I buy it from whoever has the item I want to buy, at a reasonable price. I don't feel the obligation to spend anything at a town just because I camped in the bush 10K up the road (that's about the closest to a town I would free camp anyway). The same with caravan parks, I only stay in caravan parks if they are reasonably priced and reasonable well kept, and are located where it suits me. It is simply a case of, if the product is not what the customer wants, then the customer won't buy it, be it a caravan park overnight spot or a dozen eggs.
brickies said
08:44 AM Oct 26, 2015
Troopy spot on , But we kept hearing how much people spend in towns when free camping , We only buy what we need but don't cart a freezer full of food with us . Always pleased to see local shop if we need something and see it has them doing me a favour by being where we need it not us doing them a favour by spending money there .
wasn_me said
09:26 AM Oct 26, 2015
brickies wrote:
I free camp but not in a town area , When I free camp I spend money in the town, When I stay in a a caravan park I still spend the same amount in the town , So I don't follow the line that only free campers spend money in small towns .
Same here. Totally agree
03_Troopy said
09:34 AM Oct 26, 2015
Yes brickies, the same as us. We only stock up for trips when we aren't going to be near anywhere you can get fresh supplies (water, food and grog). We do use small corner stores and cafès, but not if they charge like wounded bulls or are downright rude to you as some have been. A classic case when we were travelling back from Alice in 2011, we stopped to get some breaky at Roadhouse just a bit east if Wilcannia. One of the young blokes who was with us at the time (not travelling with the mrs, but 3 young blokes I went up for the Finke Desert Race with) not thinking left the door open. A bloke sitting in the corner smoking with 2 of his mates, who turned out to be the owner, yelled out "close the f#$%#ing door". We looked at each other stunned. Told him to stick his mouldy pies and walked out. The Marla Roadhouse is another one we don't stop at anymore either, because of the rudeness of staff in the cafe there too.
JayDee said
12:12 PM Oct 26, 2015
An extract from ( go see australia on this blog)
"Those who free camp long term are not spending in the local town they visit other than a trip to the supermarket which in our town is controlled by Woolworths who have 3 outlets and Coles who have 1 store, these profits do not filter back into our community. "
Ok, the company nett profits are distributed back to share holders.. Thank You very much. But all the staff salaries that is received from both these chains or any other style of business is then in turn generate a huge amount of dollars for many other varied business in their town. What is spent in these towns a huge % of the dollars stay in the town.
I am an avid supporter of Bush camping, but we also like to visit a C.Park if and when it suits us. The park owners need to re appraise their particular business plan. That is if they have a plan.
The park owners complain re their opposition that is bush camping. But they in turn have taken away huge dollars from hotel and motels in their town by installing cabins. Bet they never asked these business owners if they were prepared to lose turnover to them. They are really not a caravan park if the have cabins, they are a tourist park. We are all for honesty box at free damps. Ok, not everyone will be supportive, but surely some $$$$ would be generated by doing this.
This discussion will go on forever. One can only hope that the local authorities will see the good sense and find the common ground for all parties to survive and prosper.
Jay&Dee
TommyG said
01:03 PM Oct 26, 2015
@ Brisand
"don't knock other persons who opt to provide a service to those who wish the park life with the facilities provided"
We didn't start this discussion on that footing. You started with: "Everyone with strong thoughts on free camping, put yourselves in the position of a caravan park owner, they employ people, and, just maybe, a family member of maybe you or another family."
This gave the the impression that the poor CP owners are suffering hardship when people choose freedom camping. Looking at real statistics we find. "Caravan Parks can be an excellent business, they are part of a huge growing industry with profits above the general GDP.
In many cases the chances of finding suitable accommodation at a reasonable price for a one day or a week stay in a CP during holiday season is all but impossible. The prices are inflated only because they can but still they insist that freedom camping within 50 Km of their full to overflowing park is out of the question.
Like others I'm of the opinion that you are in fact a CP operator writing under the guise of a concerned independent.
Bruce and Bev said
02:14 PM Oct 26, 2015
No-one is knocking CP owners.........including me. We often stay in CP's - we always try to support the smaller, independent ones though and not those filled with cabins and very few RV sites and still charge a fortune for providing very little - a site, water and power
But what many of us are saying is they should not get special protection and privileges to support their business.
I think Philw sums it up really well
HiAce98 said
02:40 AM Nov 1, 2015
The Phantom wrote:
My 2 bob's worth.
Buy $60k caravan + $50k car + $2k roo bar + $1k spotties (never used as always parked up by 3pm) + another $10k in superfluous crap that will never be used (includes generator).
Outcome = $123k to get on the road = no money left for a caravan park.
Result = get on Grey Nomads and bag the crap out of caravan parks so you can justify staying in free camps.
The Phantom
Hmm, wish I could have Phantom. In my case, buy $15k HiAce which doubles as normal transport when at home, spend half of the princely sum I get as a pension on overheads and try to buy fuel and food etc for the remaining $230 per week. My choices, eat and drive or stay in caravan park............................. Lucky I prefer the bush eh?
KFT said
01:48 PM Nov 1, 2015
Bruce and Bev wrote:
No-one is knocking CP owners.........including me. We often stay in CP's - we always try to support the smaller, independent ones though and not those filled with cabins and very few RV sites and still charge a fortune for providing very little - a site, water and power
But what many of us are saying is they should not get special protection and privileges to support their business.
I think Philw sums it up really well
I have to agree with this statement, particularly regarding protectionist policy by guvvamint. we do much the same by staying in a CP when it suits us or we are staying at a destination for a while.
We do enjoy bush camping for the serenity and the space. We don't use many of the well advertised free camps because they are just too crowded for us.
we are happy to do an overnight stop in a stockpile site or near an old country church or Hall.
I once got an email from a nice guy who owned a caravan park in tassie. He explained that because he was very inv8lved in his local community and wantedto make a go of his business, that I (we) should not have the right to freedom camp in his district. Or use the local, rate payed for public facilities as he can provide them. Sorry. But that is illogical. He should not have the right then to sell shop items or rent cabins. I am happy to stay in his caravan park occasionally, and will support his community by spending in the area, but he has no right to insist that as he is a local, I must support him. Sort of like the local surfers keeping visitors off their waves. When the guy retires and travels to my aussie community on the mainland, he is welcome to use the facilities that my rates pay for, the toilets, bbq, footpaths etc. We are in danger of ushering in a communist state. Restriction on free enterprise and our demand driven economy. You guys worked hard and made you money due to this free enterprise economy. You identified your market and provide what the market needed and thus, profited from it. Well done.
The caravan park lobby is conning their local councils and the local business owners in their shires and region. They are in fact working against the very feature that will make them the profits that they need to sustain their business. And yes, I was also a multipe small business owner and understand the role that competition and market forces play. I wrote a paper on freedom camping which is in this forum somewhere.
This event cost nothing - Sue and Phil provide the property only, and bore water, which is drinkable. If this legislation passes - they would have to get a permit for an "event", which covers only seven days! Several of us were at Seabird before the weekend, and stayed on afterwards, so you would need at least a month to make it fair.
There is apparently a lot of rigmarole you have to go through as well - OH&S, insurance, etc., etc. and Sue and Phil would have to go through all of this, as well as pay for the permit!
West Australia is shooting itself in the foot if they allow this to be made law!!! We would not come back again if we had to move every three days! It is ridiculous!!!!
Once upon a time a long time ago the story goes we all lived happily in the land of Oz and we packed up our tent or our caravan and went and spent 3 weeks in a caravan park by the beach. Time changes and trends change then we became mobile travellers and tended to want to keep on the move and enjoy our freedom. Then along came vested interests and convinced the Qld Government to stop overnighting in rest areas. That was a roaring success and Peter Beattie had to back pedal quick smart to save the tourism industry in Qld. The Tasmanian government made the same mistake thanks to the complaints of just 4 yess just 4 caravan parks. They eventually learned there lesson. The NSW CP Association made some grand statement at a government enquiry to try and close down rest areas in NSW, the SA Association wrote to all council demanding no freedom camps within 20 k of a CP. The Qld and Vic Associations let loose a tirade of "facts" to all councils when the CMCA announced it was going to build its own member camps sites
WHO STARTED THIS FIGHT against our freedom to choose what level of accommodation we wanted. Not us. It is a fight they cannot win as ultimately the consumer will decide who they support. The consumer is all powerful in the real world and it is high time the CP associations realised that, if they continue down their present path instead of realising they have to adapt to the market then they are doomed. I prefer to think there are some smart business people out there in the industry and we are seeing gradual change.
-- Edited by Bugsy on Monday 26th of October 2015 09:39:06 AM
Same here. Totally agree
An extract from ( go see australia on this blog)
"Those who free camp long term are not spending in the local town they visit other than a trip to the supermarket which in our town is controlled by Woolworths who have 3 outlets and Coles who have 1 store, these profits do not filter back into our community. "
Ok, the company nett profits are distributed back to share holders.. Thank You very much.
But all the staff salaries that is received from both these chains or any other style of business is then in turn generate a huge amount of dollars for many other varied business in their town.
What is spent in these towns a huge % of the dollars stay in the town.
I am an avid supporter of Bush camping, but we also like to visit a C.Park if and when it suits us. The park owners need to re appraise their particular business plan. That is if they have a plan.
The park owners complain re their opposition that is bush camping.
But they in turn have taken away huge dollars from hotel and motels in their town by installing cabins.
Bet they never asked these business owners if they were prepared to lose turnover to them.
They are really not a caravan park if the have cabins, they are a tourist park.
We are all for honesty box at free damps.
Ok, not everyone will be supportive, but surely some $$$$ would be generated by doing this.
This discussion will go on forever. One can only hope that the local authorities will see the good sense and find the common ground for all parties to survive and prosper.
Jay&Dee
"don't knock other persons who opt to provide a service to those who wish the park life with the facilities provided"
We didn't start this discussion on that footing. You started with: "Everyone with strong thoughts on free camping, put yourselves in the position of a caravan park owner, they employ people, and, just maybe, a family member of maybe you or another family."
This gave the the impression that the poor CP owners are suffering hardship when people choose freedom camping. Looking at real statistics we find. "Caravan Parks can be an excellent business, they are part of a huge growing industry with profits above the general GDP.
In many cases the chances of finding suitable accommodation at a reasonable price for a one day or a week stay in a CP during holiday season is all but impossible. The prices are inflated only because they can but still they insist that freedom camping within 50 Km of their full to overflowing park is out of the question.
Like others I'm of the opinion that you are in fact a CP operator writing under the guise of a concerned independent.
But what many of us are saying is they should not get special protection and privileges to support their business.
I think Philw sums it up really well
Hmm, wish I could have Phantom. In my case, buy $15k HiAce which doubles as normal transport when at home, spend half of the princely sum I get as a pension on overheads and try to buy fuel and food etc for the remaining $230 per week. My choices, eat and drive or stay in caravan park............................. Lucky I prefer the bush eh?
I have to agree with this statement, particularly regarding protectionist policy by guvvamint. we do much the same by staying in a CP when it suits us or we are staying at a destination for a while.
We do enjoy bush camping for the serenity and the space. We don't use many of the well advertised free camps because they are just too crowded for us.
we are happy to do an overnight stop in a stockpile site or near an old country church or Hall.
frank