Great setup Peter, but not for everyone. I don't live in the van, just holiday in it.
Phil
Radar said
02:18 PM Jan 15, 2015
Hi All.
Been following this thread, like some of you I disagree some of the time but I would like to learn more about PnM's idea which might mean that my genie may stay on the shelf in the shed. We only use our battery power for lights, water pump and maybe a bit of music etc. Our usage is low.
PnM idea with dc to dc running from the car is more then possible for the day we don't have enough in the bank to run our power equipment.
Tell us more maybe a picture or two to help us not as bright people to do this understand this arrangement.
I already have anderson plug leads joining the cars 2nd battery to the van so as to recharge the 2nd battery after running our 12 volt portable frig for couple of days.
Thank you. Ralph
Crockie said
04:26 PM Jan 15, 2015
Radar wrote:
Hi All.
Been following this thread, like some of you I disagree some of the time but I would like to learn more about PnM's idea which might mean that my genie may stay on the shelf in the shed. We only use our battery power for lights, water pump and maybe a bit of music etc. Our usage is low.
PnM idea with dc to dc running from the car is more then possible for the day we don't have enough in the bank to run our power equipment.
Tell us more maybe a picture or two to help us not as bright people to do this understand this arrangement.
I already have anderson plug leads joining the cars 2nd battery to the van so as to recharge the 2nd battery after running our 12 volt portable frig for couple of days.
Thank you. Ralph
Hi folks
The only problem I see with a DC DC converter is that there may be a day when it's sticking cold or hot and the aircon is needed to keep you and the caravan cool, this is where a genny will come into its own.
Now please don't misunderstand this statement, I have NEVER had to use my genny out in the bush most of our van is 12volt stuff and so far the battery has been adequately charged by solar. I'm not sure I would go the extra expense of the converters/charger. I guess the genny is a great stand by, I agree that they are noisey and we have been subject to the fumes and noise well into the night last trip, not very nice.
I believe the modern caravaner should use all available technology, the rider on this is use it sensibly and safely.
Take care
Peter_n_Margaret said
04:50 PM Jan 15, 2015
Ralph, I don't use a DC to DC charger, but many van owners do.
Because of the voltage drop from the tug to the van batteries, charging of those batteries may be slow and inefficient. A DC to DC charger situated close to the van batteries will boost the voltage and control it so that charging is effective and quicker. Like 'normal' 240V battery chargers, they come in various qualities and sizes and others can better advise you on the various ones available.
It is still necessary to have good sized cables via your Anderson plug to carry the current required, but some voltage drop will be compensated for by the charger.
A DC to DC charger will only work when the tug engine is running though (whether you are driving or parked) of course and should be isolated from the tug battery when the engine is off so that it does not flatten the tug battery.
Depending on what you want the power for, it is also possible to run a 12V to 240V inverter directly from the alternator power while the tug motor is running. The 12V input could be connected to the tug battery via alligator clips as required or hard wired.
For obvious safety reasons, it is generally not recommended to run 240V from the tug to the van while driving.
An 80A alternator is a potentially large source of electrical power (80A at 14.2V is 1,100W, larger than many small generators) and there are plenty of alternators bigger than that. Modern vehicles with "smart" electrical systems may need special care though. I heard recently that RedArc have a chip to outsmart smart alternators, so that may be worth checking out.
I am also aware of several motorhome owners who have fitted a second alternator purely to provide power for the 'house'. These can be larger and have higher voltage output and avoid the "smarts" in some modern vehicles, but fitting to some vehicles may be problematic. They could easily be organised to run small aircons.
For most RVers, these are good options while driving and while it is possible to use them while parked up, solar is generally the solution of choice most of the time.
Another source of emergency power is the Efoy fuel cell. We are using one of these in Europe. They chemically turn methanol into electricity almost silently and without pollution. Trouble is they still are very expensive. Watch for new developments over the next few years.
Cheers,
Peter
Crockie said
05:07 PM Jan 15, 2015
Phil charters wrote:
Hi Phil, I am not put off by negative comments, we all live our lives differently and have varying opinions on how this should be done. I only have one battery and a 150 watt solar panel, not sure how long this will last, I just need backup, just in case. The inverter comment from Peter is good one, but still uses battery power and a good rate, I believe.
Looks like I should just stick to bushwalking, much easier, although carrying 20kg on your back is a real bitch, but less troublesome. LOL
Phil
Thanks Phil
we also have a 2500W inverter which works a marvel on cold nights (only use it to power the electric blankets and the coffee machine).
The problem with inverters is they draw a lot from the battery even on smaller loads, a good rule of thumb is to divide the wattage of your appliance by a factor of 10 to get an idea of the DC current from the batteries.
Pour electric blankets are 150W each, that's 30 amps DC flat out, lucky we have it on low and our batts last all night. When the solar is charging in the morning I can get a good Nespresso from the inverter.
IMHO there is nothing like the caravan lifestyle, the bride and I love it
Safe travels
03_Troopy said
05:34 PM Jan 15, 2015
Radar wrote:
Hi All.
Been following this thread, like some of you I disagree some of the time but I would like to learn more about PnM's idea which might mean that my genie may stay on the shelf in the shed. We only use our battery power for lights, water pump and maybe a bit of music etc. Our usage is low.
PnM idea with dc to dc running from the car is more then possible for the day we don't have enough in the bank to run our power equipment.
Tell us more maybe a picture or two to help us not as bright people to do this understand this arrangement.
I already have anderson plug leads joining the cars 2nd battery to the van so as to recharge the 2nd battery after running our 12 volt portable frig for couple of days.
The RedArc BCDC in 03 Troopy's pic is an excellent product designed and manufactured in Adelaide. They give great technical back up too.
We find we can charge from the solar and from the alternator at the same time.
Re inverters.
Like most products, some are better than others. We have a 1300W PSW inverter that goes into "sleep" mode when loads are turned off and the efficiency is high across the load range. It was quite expensive 10 years ago though and prices have dropped, just beware of some of the 'cheapies'.
We also run electric blankets, but they only draw 60W each (X2 for a double) via the inverter on the highest setting. 30 minutes on high is usually enough.
Cheers,
Peter
The Phantom said
10:08 PM Jan 15, 2015
Phil, I also have a 2.4 Yamaha and carry it at the end of my trayback ute. It is positioned so I can drop the side to clear the exhaust and run it from the ute. No lifting or moving required and, at about 30kgs, that is a bonus.
Make sure it is insulated from the ute tray (a piece of rubber conveyor belt is ideal) and securely chained to deter those that want a cheap generator.
I usually only run mine for relatively short periods as I have full solar and 12v power, so the method I describe works a treat.
The Phantom
Phillipn said
10:21 PM Jan 15, 2015
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
Phillipn wrote:
, but when he needed to charge his batteries he started the motor on his motor home. The diesel fumes were 10 times worse than noise from any generator.
A modern diesel (or petrol) motor vehicle engine will actually cause considerably less pollution than a small generator which have no anti pollution controls whatsoever.
Some may also be surprised to learn that the fuel consumption won't be much different either.
A modern diesel car motor uses in the order of 1/2 a litre of fuel per hour at idle (most less) plus an extra quarter of a litre per kW of power required.
That is equivalent to about 1 litre per hour when producing 2kW of power via the alternator or 3/4 litre per hour when producing 1kw.
So a DC-DC charger or an inverter is often a legitimate alternative to carrying a generator. They weigh almost nothing, costs a lot less and do not require special fuel which also makes them a lot safer. The question of how to carry a generator safely disappears.
Cheers,
Peter
Not this one, the fumes were unreal. must have had dirty injectors.
Radar said
10:28 PM Jan 15, 2015
Thank you All.
I seemed to of high jacked this thread, sorry about that.
Maybe we should start a new one and call it "Alternative to Generators.
If and when I need to carry a genie I would like mine sitting between the 2 gas bottles on the A Frame of the caravan. There it would be totally out of the way, it would not hinder my way getting into the front boot. Easy access to the genie if needed, can store it there instead of the shed leaving my shed shelve with free space, the back of the ute with more space and when I am solo touring it don't need to travel with us.
I will need to have it custom made but it would not be a major job. 16 kgs that my genie weighs. This would not be over doing it raising my ball weight to sub 220 with a caravan weight of 1990 kgs will not be to bad.
I do like the alternative idea using bctodc charging. Ralph.
-- Edited by Radar on Thursday 15th of January 2015 10:28:37 PM
exa41 said
10:39 PM Jan 15, 2015
I too have solar and a dc/dc charger and a generator and all are used in different situations and carry the genny under my bed . When mother nature has the ****s on I use the genny and when travelling my good lady feeds the battery via the dc/dc charger . I also have a A/C unit that requires 240v so obviously respect is the name of the game when free parked . Plendo has the best setup that I have ever seen so if he has a genny , well why not .
Possum3 said
12:07 AM Jan 20, 2015
I carry a small 1.2 KVA Honda in an Aluminium toolbox mounted on rear bar of Jayco van beside spare tyre - I purchased mine at Super Cheap, welded up a base from 50mm RHS square directly on to rear bar. As it is basically an emergency use item I only carry 4 litres of petrol in a small jerry (My tug is diesel). I put a rubber mat in bottom of box and pop rivetted an old leather belt to bottom of box as a tie down - two and a half years later still funtioning with no petrol fumes in rig.
EilsnAlby said
08:24 PM Jan 20, 2015
G'day Phil ... I had a 2.6kva Kipor for about 3 years. When we are travelling I close the vents and bring it in the van store it at the foot of the bed in the walk way. It's never moved and never created a smell in the van. It's never in there too long, we only like to do about 200 to 300kls a day. Then depends where are, its locked up to the A frame.
Cheers
Alby
Phil charters said
10:00 AM Jan 21, 2015
Hi Alby,
Thanks for the reply. Nice to know you have no issues as this would seem to be my otion as well.
Phil
neilnruth said
06:45 PM Jan 26, 2015
We do not have solar and so we have a generator. We carry it in the car. The dog is also in the car. I'd say the dog smells more than the generator
Aus-Kiwi said
10:04 PM Jan 26, 2015
Call me paranoid.. we have 220 hour house batteries 5 Kv diesel gen set..
120watt solar
BUT if batteries go flat ?
There nothing to start the gen set !!
Yes we have crossover relay..
All depends where you are going?
way out west beyond black stump ..
Depends on car or van ??
If I had Rodeo type vehicle ?
I would box it just behind cabin..
In van ? Between front and axle..
Phil
Hi All.
Been following this thread, like some of you I disagree some of the time but I would like to learn more about PnM's idea which might mean that my genie may stay on the shelf in the shed. We only use our battery power for lights, water pump and maybe a bit of music etc. Our usage is low.
PnM idea with dc to dc running from the car is more then possible for the day we don't have enough in the bank to run our power equipment.
Tell us more maybe a picture or two to help us not as bright people to do this understand this arrangement.
I already have anderson plug leads joining the cars 2nd battery to the van so as to recharge the 2nd battery after running our 12 volt portable frig for couple of days.
Thank you. Ralph
Hi folks
The only problem I see with a DC DC converter is that there may be a day when it's sticking cold or hot and the aircon is needed to keep you and the caravan cool, this is where a genny will come into its own.
Now please don't misunderstand this statement, I have NEVER had to use my genny out in the bush most of our van is 12volt stuff and so far the battery has been adequately charged by solar. I'm not sure I would go the extra expense of the converters/charger. I guess the genny is a great stand by, I agree that they are noisey and we have been subject to the fumes and noise well into the night last trip, not very nice.
I believe the modern caravaner should use all available technology, the rider on this is use it sensibly and safely.
Take care
Because of the voltage drop from the tug to the van batteries, charging of those batteries may be slow and inefficient. A DC to DC charger situated close to the van batteries will boost the voltage and control it so that charging is effective and quicker. Like 'normal' 240V battery chargers, they come in various qualities and sizes and others can better advise you on the various ones available.
It is still necessary to have good sized cables via your Anderson plug to carry the current required, but some voltage drop will be compensated for by the charger.
A DC to DC charger will only work when the tug engine is running though (whether you are driving or parked) of course and should be isolated from the tug battery when the engine is off so that it does not flatten the tug battery.
Depending on what you want the power for, it is also possible to run a 12V to 240V inverter directly from the alternator power while the tug motor is running. The 12V input could be connected to the tug battery via alligator clips as required or hard wired.
For obvious safety reasons, it is generally not recommended to run 240V from the tug to the van while driving.
An 80A alternator is a potentially large source of electrical power (80A at 14.2V is 1,100W, larger than many small generators) and there are plenty of alternators bigger than that. Modern vehicles with "smart" electrical systems may need special care though. I heard recently that RedArc have a chip to outsmart smart alternators, so that may be worth checking out.
I am also aware of several motorhome owners who have fitted a second alternator purely to provide power for the 'house'. These can be larger and have higher voltage output and avoid the "smarts" in some modern vehicles, but fitting to some vehicles may be problematic. They could easily be organised to run small aircons.
For most RVers, these are good options while driving and while it is possible to use them while parked up, solar is generally the solution of choice most of the time.
Another source of emergency power is the Efoy fuel cell. We are using one of these in Europe. They chemically turn methanol into electricity almost silently and without pollution. Trouble is they still are very expensive. Watch for new developments over the next few years.
Cheers,
Peter
Thanks Phil
we also have a 2500W inverter which works a marvel on cold nights (only use it to power the electric blankets and the coffee machine).
The problem with inverters is they draw a lot from the battery even on smaller loads, a good rule of thumb is to divide the wattage of your appliance by a factor of 10 to get an idea of the DC current from the batteries.
Pour electric blankets are 150W each, that's 30 amps DC flat out, lucky we have it on low and our batts last all night. When the solar is charging in the morning I can get a good Nespresso from the inverter.
IMHO there is nothing like the caravan lifestyle, the bride and I love it
Safe travels
We find we can charge from the solar and from the alternator at the same time.
Re inverters.
Like most products, some are better than others. We have a 1300W PSW inverter that goes into "sleep" mode when loads are turned off and the efficiency is high across the load range. It was quite expensive 10 years ago though and prices have dropped, just beware of some of the 'cheapies'.
We also run electric blankets, but they only draw 60W each (X2 for a double) via the inverter on the highest setting. 30 minutes on high is usually enough.
Cheers,
Peter
Phil, I also have a 2.4 Yamaha and carry it at the end of my trayback ute. It is positioned so I can drop the side to clear the exhaust and run it from the ute. No lifting or moving required and, at about 30kgs, that is a bonus.
Make sure it is insulated from the ute tray (a piece of rubber conveyor belt is ideal) and securely chained to deter those that want a cheap generator.
I usually only run mine for relatively short periods as I have full solar and 12v power, so the method I describe works a treat.
The Phantom
Not this one, the fumes were unreal. must have had dirty injectors.
Thank you All.
I seemed to of high jacked this thread, sorry about that.
Maybe we should start a new one and call it "Alternative to Generators.
If and when I need to carry a genie I would like mine sitting between the 2 gas bottles on the A Frame of the caravan. There it would be totally out of the way, it would not hinder my way getting into the front boot. Easy access to the genie if needed, can store it there instead of the shed leaving my shed shelve with free space, the back of the ute with more space and when I am solo touring it don't need to travel with us.
I will need to have it custom made but it would not be a major job. 16 kgs that my genie weighs. This would not be over doing it raising my ball weight to sub 220 with a caravan weight of 1990 kgs will not be to bad.
I do like the alternative idea using bctodc charging. Ralph.
-- Edited by Radar on Thursday 15th of January 2015 10:28:37 PM
G'day Phil ... I had a 2.6kva Kipor for about 3 years. When we are travelling I close the vents and bring it in the van store it at the foot of the bed in the walk way. It's never moved and never created a smell in the van. It's never in there too long, we only like to do about 200 to 300kls a day. Then depends where are, its locked up to the A frame.
Cheers
Alby
Thanks for the reply. Nice to know you have no issues as this would seem to be my otion as well.
Phil
We do not have solar and so we have a generator. We carry it in the car. The dog is also in the car. I'd say the dog smells more than the generator
120watt solar
BUT if batteries go flat ?
There nothing to start the gen set !!
Yes we have crossover relay..
All depends where you are going?
way out west beyond black stump ..
Depends on car or van ??
If I had Rodeo type vehicle ?
I would box it just behind cabin..
In van ? Between front and axle..
Found this on eBay:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-2KVA-GENERATOR-AND-STORAGE-BOX-COMBO-/321585010593
Not sure how this box would be mounted, possibly quite tricky if there is no space on the drawbar.
Phil