Hi Peter. Don't you see with that first sentence, that you've just done the same thing. You've put all Muslims in the same basket, when, in reality, the vast majority who live in this country, abhor the extremists, just as much as we all do.
The monsters in Syria are not true followers of Islam, or they could not be doing such barbaric things.
Cheers,
Sheba.
D and D said
09:48 PM Sep 25, 2014
You're right Sheba but it's easier to bunch all those of similar background together because then there's no need to think about the issues and arrive at rational decisions.
I used to wonder how Hitler was so successful at demonising Jews, how did he convince populations of people who had lived along side Jewish people for generations that these neighbours and friends were responsible for so much that was wrong with their world and the state was entitled to ship them off into ghettos, to steal their goods and chattels and homes and businesses, to separate families and ultimately to massacre them? Then I watch the irrationality of people's response to a few thousand disaffected nutters promising to set the world on fire and how those in Western countries with all the advantages of history, social and cultural development and education react with a knee jerk response against anyone even suspected of being in some way similar in creed or appearance and rather than engaging with them to develop a common front against extremists successfully alienate them even though they feel the same way as do we about the extremists.
If people really want to understand Muslims and the Islamic world they need to find out for themselves and not rely on the media or Youtube or the pseudo nationalistic posts circulating the internet or the blatant bigotry that accompanies them. Go and visit a Mosque, go and talk to the people there. Visit places where Muslim people congregate on social occasions. Ask them questions, listen to their answers - they are more than happy to discuss these matters and even if you part still disagreeing I am sure there will be an increased level of understanding.
dorian said
07:11 AM Sep 26, 2014
It's a sad day when our armed forces personnel have to be fearful of the people who should be grateful for their personal sacrifice.
"ADF members have been advised to consider where they are going, to be aware of their surroundings, and to exercise commonsense and judgement when considering where and when to wear uniform in public," the spokesperson said.
dorian said
07:19 AM Sep 26, 2014
D and D wrote:
If people really want to understand Muslims and the Islamic world they need to find out for themselves and not rely on the media or Youtube or the pseudo nationalistic posts circulating the internet or the blatant bigotry that accompanies them. Go and visit a Mosque, go and talk to the people there. Visit places where Muslim people congregate on social occasions. Ask them questions, listen to their answers - they are more than happy to discuss these matters and even if you part still disagreeing I am sure there will be an increased level of understanding.
A workmate who was an Iranian Bahai refugee told me that you cannot "discuss" Islam with a Muslim. If you disagree with them, they will hit you. Worse still, if you have the misfortune to be brought up as a Muslim and later decide, as a freethinking adult, to denounce your religion, you will be guilty of the crime of apostasy and face the death penalty.
Vic41 said
11:26 AM Sep 26, 2014
As BG said on his introduction on this thread, it is talking about the Islamic State and not Islam in general, however these extremist Islamic State murderers use Islam as a cloak for their medieval acts of terrorism. It seems to me as an observer they seem to have some sort of mental deficiency driving their extreme and distorted radical beliefs.
-- Edited by Vic41 on Friday 26th of September 2014 11:35:09 AM
JRH said
11:52 AM Sep 26, 2014
Vic41 wrote:
As BG said on his introduction on this thread, it is talking about the Islamic State and not Islam in general, however these extremist Islamic State murderers use Islam as a cloak for their medieval acts of terrorism. It seems to me as an observer they seem to have some sort of mental deficiency driving their extreme and distorted radical beliefs.
"ADF members have been advised to consider where they are going, to be aware of their surroundings, and to exercise commonsense and judgement when considering where and when to wear uniform in public," the spokesperson said.
Although this second article is about an attack in 1915, it shows how a man selling ice creams to children one day can blatantly shoot at a picnic group on another day which included the children with no regard for their lives.
It is a shame that one of the safest countries in the world is no longer, and as our PM has said, "there are those who live among us who would do us harm"
It is unfortunate that those terrorist inspired citizens who hate us and our way of life try their best to destroy us and our country.
JRH said
05:19 PM Sep 26, 2014
Vic41 wrote:
Maybe the ADF Officer was told to withdraw his complaint to defuse the issue, can't see where it says it didn't happen.
Do Australians have to be aware of those with extreme terrorist views? You bet we do, this was not that long ago;
Although this second article is about an attack in 1915, it shows how a man selling ice creams to children one day can blatantly shoot at a picnic group on another day which included the children with no regard for their lives.
It is a shame that one of the safest countries in the world is no longer, and as our PM has said, "there are those who live among us who would do us harm"
It is unfortunate that those terrorist inspired citizens who hate us and our way of life try their best to destroy us and our country.
They come here for a better life and bring all their crap with them.
"The United States has built a broad coalition of Western allies and Arab states to assist in bombing Islamic State (IS) militants in Iraq.
Below is a summary of where key countries stand."
"Bahrain sent two warplanes to the opening wave of attacks in Syria, a relatively modest contribution which highlights the symbolic rather than military value of some Arab contributions."
"Qatar, home to a US Central Command regional headquarters, contributed a Mirage jet during the first strikes, but it did not drop any bombs or take an active part in the attack."
I don't see any contribution by Kuwait. My memory could be failing me, but I could swear that was the country that Western soldiers died to protect.
ISTM that Qatar's "support" is a mirage of another sort. Perhaps the pilot shook an admonishing finger as he flew past.
Hi Peter. Don't you see with that first sentence, that you've just done the same thing. You've put all Muslims in the same basket, when, in reality, the vast majority who live in this country, abhor the extremists, just as much as we all do.
The monsters in Syria are not true followers of Islam, or they could not be doing such barbaric things.
Cheers,
Sheba.
I would agree with you Sheba if the so called peaceful vast majority would join in to fight IS, not just token support by very few and lots of talk.
Vic41 said
11:54 AM Sep 29, 2014
Yes bear in mind what the OP (BG) said in his first post, it is about radical Muslim Terrorists, not Muslims in general who are law abiding citizens.
It is important to the safety of all Australians (of whatever background) to be very aware of our surrounding in Oz and overseas. And also important to remember that those Australian citizens who are Muslims have relatives overseas and have to be careful what they say or do.
This sad article today of an Australian killed overseas;
-- Edited by Vic41 on Monday 29th of September 2014 12:34:47 PM
johnq said
03:25 PM Sep 29, 2014
The OP didn't intend that the discussion head off into broader issues.
There is a lot of image management going on from all manner of vested interests.
My line in the sand is that Australia remain a secular State, which means NO Sharia law. We already have Australian law, the enforcement of which unfortunately becomes a bit rubbery where lobbyists can get away with threatening politicians with reduced votes come next election.
Anyhow, there are plenty of well-informed, well moderated debates on religion on the Net, with well versed independent individuals, examples being Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (RIP).
Snip....Im making this post under I Digress to enlighten all Australians that this is a threat getting closer to home and should be taken seriously.
Read the post, watch the video and if you wish to comment, please keep away from politics and religion. I wouldnt like this thread closed because of such comments.
I agree with BG's request. A previous thread on the subject was closed because some posters ignored a similar request to keep politics and religion out of the discussion (which are banned), rather confine the discussion to Terrorism, albeit these fanatics are using their particular faith as a cloak....
So lets hope we can avoid the same thing happening here if possible.
My personal belief is that the subject of terrorism is something we need to discuss as it affects us all.
PJK said
04:47 PM Sep 29, 2014
My son in law just posted this on Facebook.
Looks like the many good Muslims are starting to fight back.
Snip....Im making this post under I Digress to enlighten all Australians that this is a threat getting closer to home and should be taken seriously.
Read the post, watch the video and if you wish to comment, please keep away from politics and religion. I wouldnt like this thread closed because of such comments.
I agree with BG's request. A previous thread on the subject was closed because some posters ignored a similar request to keep politics and religion out of the discussion (which are banned), rather confine the discussion to Terrorism, albeit these fanatics are using their particular faith as a cloak....
So lets hope we can avoid the same thing happening here if possible.
My personal belief is that the subject of terrorism is something we need to discuss as it affects us all.
From the Forum Rules:
Although the Grey Nomads forum is focussed on issues affecting the grey nomad lifestyle, discussions do sometimes meander into other areas of general interest, particularly in our I Digress section. We do however ask that members avoid discussion of politics and religion as experience has taught us that these issues can lead to bad feeling and this is, above all, a positive forum.
Vic41 said
06:37 PM Sep 29, 2014
Vic41 wrote:
Yes bear in mind what the OP (BG) said in his first post, it is about radical Muslim Terrorists, not Muslims in general who are law abiding citizens.
It is important to the safety of all Australians (of whatever background) to be very aware of our surrounding in Oz and overseas. And also important to remember that those Australian citizens who are Muslims have relatives overseas and have to be careful what they say or do.
This sad article today of an Australian killed overseas;
Just watching the video on this link, it is sad that the son feels he must go and find out the circumstances of what happened to his dad, even though he knows he is putting his own life in danger.
This other article below about the Taliban brainwashing and using children to carry out their dirty work is frightening also;
well I WONDER WHY ????...can you blame them for feeling frustrated ?? I don't condone responding in kind...but what if WE went to their country and threatened a "Jihad" at THEIR citizens...
I would EXPECT to be ostracised !!...and it would come as NO SURPRISE to me that people felt hostile towards me!!
There are TOO MANY people in this country who have little or no understanding of what it means to be muslim...and what this entails...there is WAY too much "pussy footing" around this issue.
I can only say I fully agree. Get informed on it (Islam) and then see how you feel. Read up by authors who have no specific axe to grind like Harry Richardson and "The Story of Mohammed" Islam unveiled. You need to understand the ideology and it can be confronting. I just hope plenty is going on behind the scenes and it is understood.
edit: I trust I did not transgress into the wrong territory.
-- Edited by Legendts on Monday 29th of September 2014 09:05:58 PM
Thanks for the heads-up.
Hi Peter. Don't you see with that first sentence, that you've just done the same thing. You've put all Muslims in the same basket, when, in reality, the vast majority who live in this country, abhor the extremists, just as much as we all do.
The monsters in Syria are not true followers of Islam, or they could not be doing such barbaric things.
Cheers,
Sheba.
I used to wonder how Hitler was so successful at demonising Jews, how did he convince populations of people who had lived along side Jewish people for generations that these neighbours and friends were responsible for so much that was wrong with their world and the state was entitled to ship them off into ghettos, to steal their goods and chattels and homes and businesses, to separate families and ultimately to massacre them? Then I watch the irrationality of people's response to a few thousand disaffected nutters promising to set the world on fire and how those in Western countries with all the advantages of history, social and cultural development and education react with a knee jerk response against anyone even suspected of being in some way similar in creed or appearance and rather than engaging with them to develop a common front against extremists successfully alienate them even though they feel the same way as do we about the extremists.
If people really want to understand Muslims and the Islamic world they need to find out for themselves and not rely on the media or Youtube or the pseudo nationalistic posts circulating the internet or the blatant bigotry that accompanies them. Go and visit a Mosque, go and talk to the people there. Visit places where Muslim people congregate on social occasions. Ask them questions, listen to their answers - they are more than happy to discuss these matters and even if you part still disagreeing I am sure there will be an increased level of understanding.
www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-25/uniformed-adf-officer-attacked-by-men-in-sydney-nsw-police-say/5769874
"ADF members have been advised to consider where they are going, to be aware of their surroundings, and to exercise commonsense and judgement when considering where and when to wear uniform in public," the spokesperson said.
A workmate who was an Iranian Bahai refugee told me that you cannot "discuss" Islam with a Muslim. If you disagree with them, they will hit you. Worse still, if you have the misfortune to be brought up as a Muslim and later decide, as a freethinking adult, to denounce your religion, you will be guilty of the crime of apostasy and face the death penalty.
As BG said on his introduction on this thread, it is talking about the Islamic State and not Islam in general, however these extremist Islamic State murderers use Islam as a cloak for their medieval acts of terrorism. It seems to me as an observer they seem to have some sort of mental deficiency driving their extreme and distorted radical beliefs.
I think this puts it in a nutshell;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCVBkvfDZ1U
-- Edited by Vic41 on Friday 26th of September 2014 11:35:09 AM
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-26/adf-officer-withdraws-sydney-attack-allegation/5771586
Maybe the ADF Officer was told to withdraw his complaint to defuse the issue, can't see where it says it didn't happen.
Do Australians have to be aware of those with extreme terrorist views? You bet we do, this was not that long ago;
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/barracks-terror-three-should-have-got-life-20130617-2odqf.html
Although this second article is about an attack in 1915, it shows how a man selling ice creams to children one day can blatantly shoot at a picnic group on another day which included the children with no regard for their lives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Broken_Hill
It is a shame that one of the safest countries in the world is no longer, and as our PM has said, "there are those who live among us who would do us harm"
It is unfortunate that those terrorist inspired citizens who hate us and our way of life try their best to destroy us and our country.
They come here for a better life and bring all their crap with them.
Will Philippine rebels behead German hostage?
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2014/09/will-philippine-rebels-behead-german-hostage-201492691512455783.html
I think that was originally said a couple of hundred years ago on the shores of Botany Bay....
This is an interesting video about Terrorism, titled;
"Fueling The Fear Of Islam"....."Does the media promote Islamophobia ????? Sound On;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZKqxxoUoYs
See also; http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/australian-jihadists-fuelling-islamophobia-20140626-zsmom.html
-- Edited by Vic41 on Sunday 28th of September 2014 05:09:02 PM
"The United States has built a broad coalition of Western allies and Arab states to assist in bombing Islamic State (IS) militants in Iraq.
Below is a summary of where key countries stand."
"Bahrain sent two warplanes to the opening wave of attacks in Syria, a relatively modest contribution which highlights the symbolic rather than military value of some Arab contributions."
"Qatar, home to a US Central Command regional headquarters, contributed a Mirage jet during the first strikes, but it did not drop any bombs or take an active part in the attack."
I don't see any contribution by Kuwait. My memory could be failing me, but I could swear that was the country that Western soldiers died to protect.
ISTM that Qatar's "support" is a mirage of another sort. Perhaps the pilot shook an admonishing finger as he flew past.
Australia has pledged eight F/A-18F Super Hornet fighter jets to the Middle East. Well where are they ? Talk, talk, talk has been going on for weeks. The U.K. approved in the Commons the use of their fighters two days ago. Next day they were in the air...
VC hero Ben Roberts-Smith's comments on IS "(They) don't deserve to share the earth with the rest of humanity" See;
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/victoria-cross-recipient-ben-robertssmith-hails-blitz-on-islamic-state/story-fnhocxo3-1227072693578?nk=81a7cba251130d7645a1b4d8a5a0c17e
I would agree with you Sheba if the so called peaceful vast majority would join in to fight IS, not just token support by very few and lots of talk.
Yes bear in mind what the OP (BG) said in his first post, it is about radical Muslim Terrorists, not Muslims in general who are law abiding citizens.
It is important to the safety of all Australians (of whatever background) to be very aware of our surrounding in Oz and overseas. And also important to remember that those Australian citizens who are Muslims have relatives overseas and have to be careful what they say or do.
This sad article today of an Australian killed overseas;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-29/afghan-australian-killed-by-taliban-was-targeted-authorities/5775004
-- Edited by Vic41 on Monday 29th of September 2014 12:34:47 PM
The OP didn't intend that the discussion head off into broader issues.
There is a lot of image management going on from all manner of vested interests.
My line in the sand is that Australia remain a secular State, which means NO Sharia law. We already have Australian law, the enforcement of which unfortunately becomes a bit rubbery where lobbyists can get away with threatening politicians with reduced votes come next election.
Anyhow, there are plenty of well-informed, well moderated debates on religion on the Net, with well versed independent individuals, examples being Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens (RIP).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Ks4pCO5O8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CGFMwtJTyE
I agree with BG's request. A previous thread on the subject was closed because some posters ignored a similar request to keep politics and religion out of the discussion (which are banned), rather confine the discussion to Terrorism, albeit these fanatics are using their particular faith as a cloak....
So lets hope we can avoid the same thing happening here if possible.
My personal belief is that the subject of terrorism is something we need to discuss as it affects us all.
Looks like the many good Muslims are starting to fight back.
fullist.co.uk/2014/09/muslim-scholars-destroy-theological-argument-behind-isis/
Regards
Peter
PJK
Good article Peter, thanks for sharing.
From the Forum Rules:
Although the Grey Nomads forum is focussed on issues affecting the grey nomad lifestyle, discussions do sometimes meander into other areas of general interest, particularly in our I Digress section. We do however ask that members avoid discussion of politics and religion as experience has taught us that these issues can lead to bad feeling and this is, above all, a positive forum.
Just watching the video on this link, it is sad that the son feels he must go and find out the circumstances of what happened to his dad, even though he knows he is putting his own life in danger.
This other article below about the Taliban brainwashing and using children to carry out their dirty work is frightening also;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-06/foreign-correspondent-taliban-generation-schooled-deadly-attacks/5430036
I can only say I fully agree. Get informed on it (Islam) and then see how you feel. Read up by authors who have no specific axe to grind like Harry Richardson and "The Story of Mohammed" Islam unveiled. You need to understand the ideology and it can be confronting. I just hope plenty is going on behind the scenes and it is understood.
edit: I trust I did not transgress into the wrong territory.
-- Edited by Legendts on Monday 29th of September 2014 09:05:58 PM
The fight against Islamic State grows, see;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-30/islamic-state-turkey-positions-armour-on-syrian-border-as-pa/5777944
And their destruction of ancient middle eastern buildings and artefacts, including their sale;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-30/islamic-state-pillaging-iraqi-artefacts2c-unesco-warns/5777990
Israel's PM fears a greater threat;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-30/israel27s-netanyahu3a-iran-poses-greater-threat-than-islamic-/5777996
More terrorist raids in Victoria;
http://www.abc.net.au/news/wa/
Info on the "White Widow"
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/white-widow-samantha-lewthwaite-reportedly-training-female-suicide-bombers-for-islamic-state/story-fni0xs61-1227074570223
and the latest photo's and names of IS ringleaders (the Dogs Of War) etc;
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/islamic-state-terrorist-army-ringleaders-the-us-names-the-dogs-of-war/story-fnii5s3y-1227074518192
-- Edited by Vic41 on Tuesday 30th of September 2014 11:57:52 AM
Maybe so but it is still very relevant today Pal.