As usual Dave ,you clouted the nail on the head.Cheers.Ibbo.
Basil Faulty said
08:09 PM Aug 17, 2009
Ma wrote:
We hear a lot about the males beating up on the females but there are more cases in the reverse than we realise.
Hmmmmm yes so true but more frequently the female resorts to verbal abuse and "brain games" than physical voilence (apart from the odd hormonally thrown plate of Bolognaise). Blokes are rather more simple than that too, simply ask us to do something and females have to realise that whinging and whining just don't work, we see it as nagging... As I said to SWMBO just the other day as I was deftly ducking a plate of food, "wouldn't you be happier if you did not feel the need to critique my evey action and nuance?" "Just allow me to make the odd mistake"....
dave06 said
11:05 AM Aug 18, 2009
the ratio of actual physical abuse is roughly 10 to 1 (male abuse to female)
the ratio of mental abuse is poorly documented but is thought to be in the region of 5 to 1 female orientated
child sexual and physical abuse male to female is an abhorrent 50 - 1,
child/teenager mental abuse is skewed 50 - 1 female orientated (mostly mother against daughter)
drug use or effects has very little to do with the number of abuse victims, abuse is equally spread across the board from high income earners to dole bludgers, drinkers and non drinkers, it is a multi level multi social depravity
because mental abuse is rarely reported and does not have a representation in hospitalization records then this figure is quite likely to be way out
simply because the records show the declination of physical abuse towards the male does not lessen the effect or mental anguish of the females attack, and may in fact be a falsity, many males do not report the attack (not manly enough rubbish) all attacks should be reported
all attacks, mental or physical in this day and age in a society such as ours is not and will not be tolerated
we are working very hard to extinguish this atrocity at all levels but because of the "cycle" new cases are coming forward every minute of every day, I alone dealt with 2,500 last year, compared with 2,200 the previous year,
multiply this by the multitude of organizations and the number of phone volunteers and it very quickly becomes clear that this is a massive problem that is not addressed at the most useful level, the courts!!
domestic violence is in fact doing one of two things, it is either increasing (doubtful) or there are more reports (more probable) either way it is not to be tolerated at ANY level and should be reported at the earliest sign,
more violent attacks are on the increase, death from these attacks is on the increase
this we do know
"GET OUT" easily said, not easily done, I understand the complexity of alienation of a family, but I also appreciate the destruction of the loss of a loved one through domestic violence,
most times relevant and comprehensive thought has been beaten or coerced out of the victim long before any action is taken
we can only advise, the action is up to the individual, this and the quick action of our police force unfortunately are the only weapons we as phone councilors have as weapons, in a lot of cases our hands are completly tied
transcripts of our phone conversations are often not allowed as evidence in a court of law for stupid and outlandish reasons such as the non notification to the victim of the taping of the phone conversation
I made this mistake recently when I was present at a murder (on the phone) all was taped which is a common practice, the tape was not allowed, the murderer walked free because of lack of evidence, I have the bloody thing here and I am not allowed to play it to anyone, i am not even supposed to have kept a copy, I could go to jail simply by having this copy in my possesion
tell me who the law is working for and why I have a meltdown now and again
I will not ever make the same mistake twice,
-- Edited by dave06 on Tuesday 18th of August 2009 12:27:36 PM
Basil Faulty said
01:58 PM Aug 18, 2009
dave06 wrote:
the ratio of actual physical abuse is roughly 10 to 1 (male abuse to female)
the ratio of mental abuse is poorly documented but is thought to be in the region of 5 to 1 female orientated
child sexual and physical abuse male to female is an abhorrent 50 - 1,
child/teenager mental abuse is skewed 50 - 1 female orientated (mostly mother against daughter)
drug use or effects has very little to do with the number of abuse victims, abuse is equally spread across the board from high income earners to dole bludgers, drinkers and non drinkers, it is a multi level multi social depravity
because mental abuse is rarely reported and does not have a representation in hospitalization records then this figure is quite likely to be way out
simply because the records show the declination of physical abuse towards the male does not lessen the effect or mental anguish of the females attack, and may in fact be a falsity, many males do not report the attack (not manly enough rubbish) all attacks should be reported
all attacks, mental or physical in this day and age in a society such as ours is not and will not be tolerated
we are working very hard to extinguish this atrocity at all levels but because of the "cycle" new cases are coming forward every minute of every day, I alone dealt with 2,500 last year, compared with 2,200 the previous year,
multiply this by the multitude of organizations and the number of phone volunteers and it very quickly becomes clear that this is a massive problem that is not addressed at the most useful level, the courts!!
domestic violence is in fact doing one of two things, it is either increasing (doubtful) or there are more reports (more probable) either way it is not to be tolerated at ANY level and should be reported at the earliest sign,
more violent attacks are on the increase, death from these attacks is on the increase
this we do know
"GET OUT" easily said, not easily done, I understand the complexity of alienation of a family, but I also appreciate the destruction of the loss of a loved one through domestic violence,
most times relevant and comprehensive thought has been beaten or coerced out of the victim long before any action is taken
we can only advise, the action is up to the individual, this and the quick action of our police force unfortunately are the only weapons we as phone councilors have as weapons, in a lot of cases our hands are completly tied
transcripts of our phone conversations are often not allowed as evidence in a court of law for stupid and outlandish reasons such as the non notification to the victim of the taping of the phone conversation
I made this mistake recently when I was present at a murder (on the phone) all was taped which is a common practice, the tape was not allowed, the murderer walked free because of lack of evidence, I have the bloody thing here and I am not allowed to play it to anyone, i am not even supposed to have kept a copy, I could go to jail simply by having this copy in my possesion
tell me who the law is working for and why I have a meltdown now and again
I will not ever make the same mistake twice,
-- Edited by dave06 on Tuesday 18th of August 2009 12:27:36 PM
Are you sure of that Dave? If you want I can put you in touch with a guy who is right up on the Telecomunications Act as he helped write it. It is my understanding that there is provision that the caller should assume the call is being taped if calling an Emergency service of any type..... Sometimes the Law is an ass and sometimes those interpreting the law interpret in such a way as to create the best outcome for themselves.....
dave06 said
02:39 PM Aug 18, 2009
absolutely Basil, unless we (the communicators) inform the caller that the call is being taped for either legal purposes or for training then it can not be used in a court of law, this is hard to do when they are under attack, calls made to 000 come under the same law, although there is a clause which allows these in court in some instances
most places one calls for info the call is taped for training protocol but if it was ever contested in a court of law it would be deemed an "illegal activity" unless the caller is aware they are being taped ( it actually comes under the phone tapping legislation I think)
the law is skewed towards helping the perpetrator evade justice rather than helping the victim, the law is indeed an ass at the moment and is in sore need of a change,
lawyers are highly skilled and highly trained in the finding of every loophole that will allow the client to go free regardless of innocence or guilt, payment is the only thing that has priority with them, victims dont exist in their eyes, only dollar signs
I am not an expert on this and I have had legal advice before that phone evidence will and can be allowed in a court of law, but i do know in most cases it is deemed inadmissable, vital evidence has been disallowed because of the non disclosure of taping, it has happened to me
Cruising Granny said
04:31 PM Aug 18, 2009
Here in Cairns, when I phone the Police the first thing to answer is a recorded message advising the caller the call is being recorded, and then it rings again until someone answers.
I'm guessing it's done this way as a result of your problem Dave. I call them fairly often as the park is across a creek from sus tenants of public housing in this area. Alcohol and drugs are a big problem here as well as everywhere else I have been.
The law most certainly is confusing. We are to uphold the law, but those who don't seem to get all the benefit of the doubt and the victim is considered to be lying, assassinating the personality of the perpetrator.
eg rape victims - they are alleged to have done something to invite the rapist's attention and the subsequent attack. Similar for bashing victims, in fact most victims are grilled to such a degree they feel as though they are on trial, and are discredited to such a degree so the crim gets off scot free. We've digressed again. Cheers Chris
dave06 said
08:01 PM Aug 20, 2009
I prepare a "submission" for the coroner which is picked up by detectives including any tapes (on CD now) that I may have from the conversation, my private case file notes regarding the case are also taken
from there it gets a bit murky from where I stand, I think it goes from the coroner to the department of public prosecutions where it is put forward as a "submission statement"
I think it is decided by a committee as to whether there is a case to be heard and whether there is evidence enough to proceed to trial
who this committee is and how their decisions are come by I don't know, the only reason that I know this much is because our senior sergeant happens to be an acquaintance of mine, and a couple of the detectives have said a few bits and peices
it all seems very weird seeing as to how I have the perpetrator on "tape" but apparently it can all be "thrown aside" by any given lawyer on any given day or judge as he or she feels fit
the laws are here to protect us but it is left up to the legal system as to how it is enforced or interpreted
rape always has been and always will be a "soft crime" in the eyes of the law and one that is awfully hard to prove and hard on the victim , dont know why but it is just so wrong on so many levels
Cruising Granny said
08:13 PM Aug 20, 2009
The police are up against it when it comes to taking the perpetrator to court.
They do their job by remanding the "alleged" offender. They then have to prove their case to get it to court.
The "alleged" offender gets a lawyer, often Legal Aid, who has to fight to defent the "alleged" offender.
I've sat through hundreds of court hearings in my journo days.
I feel very sorry for the Police Prosecutor who has the job of convincing the Magistrate, or later, the jury, and the defence either wins or gets the offender the minimal sentence or suspended sentence.
The press charges for the most severe offences, because they know it will be reduced once it get to court.
Another example of soft options to give the offender the opportunity to get their life together, or to do it all again. See you in court next month. Cheers Chris
Ma said
08:24 PM Aug 20, 2009
It's been said before and I'll say it again........THE LAW IS AN ASS !!!!
dave06 said
11:09 AM Aug 21, 2009
I have absolutely no misgivings concerning any level of the police force, they do an enormous ammount of work only to see it thrown out on a technicality, our senior has said many times it's enough to make him quit the force
however I am trying to find an address of a mob of bikies that are against domestic violence that will "pay a social call" on a member of a family who may be threatening domestic bliss
this has been highly productive in the past by "persuading" the perpertraitor that perhaps what he is doing is not in "HIS" best interest
I will continue searching until I find them and I will pass the info on to you Ma and maybe we can "help" your daughter
Ma said
12:11 PM Aug 21, 2009
I can fully understand why your policeman friend often thinks of giving up. I DID!
I was studying to be a solicitor (back in another lifetime) and at the same time was a paralegal. I did a fair bit of local court work, representing petty criminals and a fair bit on the Domestic Violence side too.
One night after a particularly harrowing day in court I went home, sat down with a glass of red and took stock.
Why was I studying to be a solicitor when the majority of my work at that stage was trying to get these low lifes off entirely or putting up mitigating circumstances to get a reduced fine or sentence WHEN I KNEW WITHOUT A DOUBT that they were as guilty as sin.
Next day I resigned from my work as a paralegal and withdraw from the law degree course.
I have a conscience and just couldn't justify doing that sort of thing anymore.
I opened a coffee shop instead.
Ma
dave06 said
12:42 PM Aug 21, 2009
then you would understand the legal procedure far more than I would Ma, I get snippets of info from time to time but not enough to fully put together the entire steps to prosecution
I cant understand how the defence team in these instances can sleep at night knowing they got a murderer/abuser off scot free, perhaps when it is their daughter then the sympathy may lie in another direction
everybody else is well aware of who the guilty party is in these matters,
I guess money soothes all ailments
Ma said
01:41 PM Aug 21, 2009
Like they say Dave "money is the root of all evil" and I for one would rather be penniless than go against my morals and ethics to defend these rotters and try and get them off.
It is amazing how the worm turns when it is one of the family that are the victims. Have seen that too.
At least I can sleep nights knowing I have done the right thing. I don't usually give up on anything that I start but have made an exception in this case and I certainly don't regret it at all.
Hmmmmm yes so true but more frequently the female resorts to verbal abuse and "brain games" than physical voilence (apart from the odd hormonally thrown plate of Bolognaise).
Blokes are rather more simple than that too, simply ask us to do something and females have to realise that whinging and whining just don't work, we see it as nagging... As I said to SWMBO just the other day as I was deftly ducking a plate of food, "wouldn't you be happier if you did not feel the need to critique my evey action and nuance?" "Just allow me to make the odd mistake"....
the ratio of mental abuse is poorly documented but is thought to be in the region of 5 to 1 female orientated
child sexual and physical abuse male to female is an abhorrent 50 - 1,
child/teenager mental abuse is skewed 50 - 1 female orientated (mostly mother against daughter)
drug use or effects has very little to do with the number of abuse victims, abuse is equally spread across the board from high income earners to dole bludgers, drinkers and non drinkers, it is a multi level multi social depravity
because mental abuse is rarely reported and does not have a representation in hospitalization records then this figure is quite likely to be way out
simply because the records show the declination of physical abuse towards the male does not lessen the effect or mental anguish of the females attack, and may in fact be a falsity, many males do not report the attack (not manly enough rubbish) all attacks should be reported
all attacks, mental or physical in this day and age in a society such as ours is not and will not be tolerated
we are working very hard to extinguish this atrocity at all levels but because of the "cycle" new cases are coming forward every minute of every day, I alone dealt with 2,500 last year, compared with 2,200 the previous year,
multiply this by the multitude of organizations and the number of phone volunteers and it very quickly becomes clear that this is a massive problem that is not addressed at the most useful level, the courts!!
domestic violence is in fact doing one of two things, it is either increasing (doubtful) or there are more reports (more probable) either way it is not to be tolerated at ANY level and should be reported at the earliest sign,
more violent attacks are on the increase, death from these attacks is on the increase
this we do know
"GET OUT" easily said, not easily done, I understand the complexity of alienation of a family, but I also appreciate the destruction of the loss of a loved one through domestic violence,
most times relevant and comprehensive thought has been beaten or coerced out of the victim long before any action is taken
we can only advise, the action is up to the individual, this and the quick action of our police force unfortunately are the only weapons we as phone councilors have as weapons, in a lot of cases our hands are completly tied
transcripts of our phone conversations are often not allowed as evidence in a court of law for stupid and outlandish reasons such as the non notification to the victim of the taping of the phone conversation
I made this mistake recently when I was present at a murder (on the phone) all was taped which is a common practice, the tape was not allowed, the murderer walked free because of lack of evidence, I have the bloody thing here and I am not allowed to play it to anyone, i am not even supposed to have kept a copy, I could go to jail simply by having this copy in my possesion
tell me who the law is working for and why I have a meltdown now and again
I will not ever make the same mistake twice,
-- Edited by dave06 on Tuesday 18th of August 2009 12:27:36 PM
I was studying to be a solicitor (back in another lifetime) and at the same time was a paralegal. I did a fair bit of local court work, representing petty criminals and a fair bit on the Domestic Violence side too.
One night after a particularly harrowing day in court I went home, sat down with a glass of red and took stock.
Why was I studying to be a solicitor when the majority of my work at that stage was trying to get these low lifes off entirely or putting up mitigating circumstances to get a reduced fine or sentence WHEN I KNEW WITHOUT A DOUBT that they were as guilty as sin.
Next day I resigned from my work as a paralegal and withdraw from the law degree course.
I have a conscience and just couldn't justify doing that sort of thing anymore.
I opened a coffee shop instead.
Ma
It is amazing how the worm turns when it is one of the family that are the victims. Have seen that too.
At least I can sleep nights knowing I have done the right thing. I don't usually give up on anything that I start but have made an exception in this case and I certainly don't regret it at all.
Ma