They whinge about our 30 or 40yr houses being worth a lot of money. So what. It does nothing for me. I can't sell and get a lot of money because the housing market is so tight there is nowhere to go. I also cringe at the thought of moving into an apartment with noisy neighbours on all sides as we are told we should. What if we had another covid? I prefer to be able to walk about and potter in my garden. Thank you very much.
I am copping outlandish rates because of the increased values. and what about repairs and maintenance costs if you can get anyone to do anything.
Oh that's right all the little business owners were wiped out during covid leaving the large companies and global conglomerates who won't even look at small jobs.
This article should be a prime target for the fact checkers and the new misinformation/disinformation bill they have just passed. But sadly, it complies with the right message.
I realise this is not the young people putting out these messages, it's the global conglomerates out to further their objectives.
And also, while I'm at it, Spell check or AI, neighbours IS spelt correctly. Stop trying to change everything about our culture and teach our kids very bad spelling and grammar.
Maybe if we all chose to do as much business as possible with local firms who do not have global aspirations it might solve a lot of issues for young and old alike.
Rant over
Possum3 said
04:43 PM Nov 13, 2023
I totally agree;
I am unaware of too many "Boomers" laughing all the way to the bank, nor living the good life at the expense of others.
Most of us were raised in single income families, many with lost Family Members (due to WWI, WWII, Korea, Malaysia), still suffering from the after effects of the Great Global Recession. We learned in early life to be thrifty, hand-me-down clothing, one pair of shoes (also hand-me-down) reheeled and resoled by Dad at the kitchen table. We didn't buy if we couldn't afford, we scrimped and saved to pay off mortgages. Cars and telephones were only for "rich people", Dining "out" was a never, toast, dripping and baked beans were a staple.
Our great reward was changing of Pension Rules - So unless we are on the bones of our arse, we qualify for nothing - I just ignore the oft cry from the Press about how "Lucky" we were.
Whenarewethere said
06:04 PM Nov 13, 2023
Remember how expensive chicken was, as a kid had it about twice a year, & it had to be thawed out & cooked at home. Mum usually bought a #16 (1.6kg).
Covid: Apart from earning no interest. Also gave my tenants a substantial discount on rent during Covid they asked for. I didn't ask for any of it back. Still had to pay all the rates & insurance etc & all of that went up, substantially.
A few people I know were also helping their tenants with reduced rent & didn't ask for it back.
Some people have very short memories!
1989 my mortgage was 17%, & it was very slow to come down, still got all the statements. We lived off bread & water. Didn't have any for of holiday for years & when I did it was renovating myself to save money (was aware of asbestos). People don't seem to know anymore even though most buildings are old enough to have it.
They whinge about our 30 or 40yr houses being worth a lot of money. So what. It does nothing for me. I can't sell and get a lot of money because the housing market is so tight there is nowhere to go. I also cringe at the thought of moving into an apartment with noisy neighbours on all sides as we are told we should. What if we had another covid? I prefer to be able to walk about and potter in my garden. Thank you very much.
I am copping outlandish rates because of the increased values. and what about repairs and maintenance costs if you can get anyone to do anything.
Oh that's right all the little business owners were wiped out during covid leaving the large companies and global conglomerates who won't even look at small jobs.
This article should be a prime target for the fact checkers and the new misinformation/disinformation bill they have just passed. But sadly, it complies with the right message.
I realise this is not the young people putting out these messages, it's the global conglomerates out to further their objectives.
And also, while I'm at it, Spell check or AI, neighbours IS spelt correctly. Stop trying to change everything about our culture and teach our kids very bad spelling and grammar.
Maybe if we all chose to do as much business as possible with local firms who do not have global aspirations it might solve a lot of issues for young and old alike.
Rant over
Two responses.
1. Stop reading the Daily Mail
2. As you suggest - Give your money to faces of folk you recognise & who recognise you.
dorian said
05:25 AM Nov 14, 2023
The interviewee was a real estate agent. Higher interest rates -> less sales. Enough said.
msg said
06:56 AM Nov 14, 2023
Exactly right Dorian. But, people read this rubbish and if it's said often enough, it will become true.
rmoor said
10:12 AM Nov 14, 2023
Speaking to a friend who recently bought a four bedroom home, of which she is entitled to do after working very hard for over 50 years, I pointed out we "boomers" are likely to really cop it in the coming years.
I also occupy a large space, but I also worked non stop for 50 years and still do a little in a current wind down to full retirement.
I believe there will be added pressure in years to come at the older generation to vacate our homes in favour of others. Possibly also for the one million proposed immigrants the brains trust are planning to import.
I was contracting to Immigration in 99/2000 and still recall the hustle and activity in the ACT Belconnen dept when the first boats started to hit.
Now we allow murderers and child r$p$sts to roam free in "our" society thanks to our high court. Maybe it needs a name change?
The absolute taxation haul (stamp duty etc) from fast rising house prices has created a windfall in state govt coffers and neither they nor the feral feds have any intention to restrict overseas investors stuffing up our housing market that has boomed beyond all possible logical levels.
Then other goons raise interest rates and all they are doing is destroying the aspirations of young Australians and putting cost of living pressures on others.
The main drivers of inflation are overseas buyers (non-Australians) in real estate and greedy world oil suppliers that in turn hits our freight costs.
What is going to happen to freight costs and in turn groceries and suppliers when the crazy greenies get their way and they outlaw diesel fuel rebates and diesel fuel itself, currently on road at 20c per litre heavy transport and 48.8 cpl for farmers. I am doing two diesel rebate calculations for clients today.
One wonders where this will all stop and if we will ever get anyone with enough backbone in government to make a stand and rectify all these anomalies. I think not.
As I keep saying to a few people, I am glad I am the age that I am as we have seen the best of it. Without doubt.
Batten down the hatches friends, because I think we Grey Nomads are not far from being ostracized for working too hard and each being a part of building this fair country.
Well.....what was once a fair country, now most of us are considered to be invaders and we are about to be diluted again with a huge influx of potential street protesters.
The ones I really feel sorry for are the young, they are fast approaching little hope of EVER owning their own homes in their own right from their own endeavors as we were allowed to do, albeit at around 17% interest rates, but in a "fairer" market.
My soapbox stand for the day.......
msg said
11:46 AM Nov 14, 2023
You will own nothing and be happy. (To be told what to do and how to do it in every aspect of your lives) No more travelling around for you. We'll make sure of that. No decent vehicles to do the job, and petrol too expensive anyway. Just sit down shut up and go to work. We'll tax you to hell. Ruin the planet just so we can make everything bigger and more profit to us. So many things going on that just don't make sense.
rmoor said
12:33 PM Nov 14, 2023
msg wrote:
You will own nothing and be happy. (To be told what to do and how to do it in every aspect of your lives) No more travelling around for you. We'll make sure of that. No decent vehicles to do the job, and petrol too expensive anyway. Just sit down shut up and go to work. We'll tax you to hell. Ruin the planet just so we can make everything bigger and more profit to us. So many things going on that just don't make sense.
Hey MSG. What you have just described is evident in two of the biggest (amended "greatest") superpowers - it is called communism.
We are entering that phase now, the new "misinformation bill" is the start of it.
Izabarack said
05:11 PM Nov 14, 2023
dorian wrote:
The interviewee was a real estate agent.
Real Estate sourced comments are invariable intended to raise anxiety and alarm their audience. Bit like Click Bait headlines for news stories. No thoughts of downsizing here. Major shopping and health facilities have expanded out to the city to now be just up the road. Private health insurance is rebating more than premiums and I see that as a return on investment coming in at just the right time.
Magnarc said
08:35 AM Nov 15, 2023
Moor said,
As I keep saying to a few people, I am glad I am the age that I am as we have seen the best of it. Without doubt.
Ron, I haven't always agreed with your views but I heartily concur with the above.
dogbox said
09:44 AM Nov 15, 2023
I was recently informed that people with any form of wealth should share it with the poor people, I answered by saying, I thought they already did every time they got paid or bought something, they paid some form of tax!
that tax, is what pays for all the handouts that people get from the system the more you earn, the more tax you pay, the more you spend the more tax you pay. if a few more of these people that receive some form of benefit got jobs they are capable of doing, they could get even more money from these so-called rich people (employers), then they could pay taxes and help support other people who are less fortunate.
one political party is promoting a freeze on rents, no mention of any hold on interest rates?
I wonder how many of the rental properties have mortgages on them that will soon, if not already put financial stress on the landlords, do they think that policy will encourage people to invest in rental/investment properties? if the answer is NO then the problem of rental shortages long term could get a lot worse.
It will then fall to the government to supply more public housing (the waiting list is very long), which means the people paying taxes will have to pay more tax or more people paying tax!
rmoor said
10:27 AM Nov 15, 2023
Dogbox wrote :
"It will then fall to the government to supply more public housing (the waiting list is very long), which means the people paying taxes will have to pay more tax or more people paying tax!"
Was thinking yesterday, with the planned one million immigrants coming into the country in the future where will they be housed as Dogbox says, rentals could become scarce and even more expensive.
If so, the govt will have to do what they SHOULD have done with Covid. Build camps.
(The Covid travelers should have been quarantined in camps built, not motels, the Morrison govt stuffed the whole show up bigtime).
These "imported workers" will need to be housed somewhere. Govt rental accommodation is the only answer, then adapted as flow over accommodation for all those poor Aussies now living in their cars.
Also thought, in light of the demands from some sectors of our society, they have VERY short memories. For little or NO work (some not ever in their lives), many have a roof over their heads, food in their stomachs, NEW car in the garage and money in their pockets. Yet they want more, demand change, look at the past, never at what has been provided for them TODAY.
Short memories in our new entitled society.
Cuppa said
11:00 AM Nov 15, 2023
dogbox wrote:
the more you earn, the more tax you pay, the more you spend the more tax you pay.
Whilst that is how it is supposed to work it is pretty clear that those with the most wealth have plenty of ways of avoiding paying their fair share.
dogbox said
11:30 AM Nov 15, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
dogbox wrote:
the more you earn, the more tax you pay, the more you spend the more tax you pay.
Whilst that is how it is supposed to work it is pretty clear that those with the most wealth have plenty of ways of avoiding paying their fair share.
what would their fair share be? some might think that people who can afford to live a life travelling around the country are a very privileged group of people who should contribute more so the people who have never contributed can live a more comfortable life.
like rentals, if you strangle the people who provide/invest in rental properties there will be fewer people who will bother with the hassles involved and there are a lot of hassles, with in most cases years of putting your own money into buying a property for some else to live in. and in the end when it is sold you will be taxed again on any capital gains and most probably not entitled to any government benefits so any benefits that where available as far as taxation MINIMISATION from the government will be recoup if not all, most. when you die your beneficiaries will probably say thank you very much and spend the lot on things you thought you could never afford
such is life
Aussie1 said
11:33 AM Nov 15, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
dogbox wrote:
the more you earn, the more tax you pay, the more you spend the more tax you pay.
Whilst that is how it is supposed to work it is pretty clear that those with the most wealth have plenty of ways of avoiding paying their fair share.
Providing those that do pay less tax are doing so within the taxation laws, I have no problem with that. If anyone has a problem with that, don't blame those that pay less tax, blame those that create the taxation laws (both political parties are guilty of taxation laws we have). Fair share has nothing to do with it.
msg said
12:50 PM Nov 15, 2023
Cuppa the same legislation applies to all.
In a nutshell, you pay tax on all your income less what it costs to earn that income.
Everyone. rich or poor. You pay a percentage of that income in tax. That percentage increases with increases in net income. Easy peasy.
As it happens for a person working and earning PAYG wages it doesn't usually cost them much to earn that income.
Whereas, if you run a business, you have a lot of expenses, eg employee costs, stock, machinery, and these expenses are deducted from your gross income, and you pay tax on that amount.
With capital items, generally those that last a number of years. like machinery, the ATO sets the useful life and amortises it over those years. ie divides the cost of the machinery over the expected number of useful years. That amount is called depreciation and is a deduction from income each year over its useful life.
Providing you can justify a cost as an expense it is a deduction from your income. Not from your tax as is usually believed. You pay tax on your net income. and believe me, the ATO scrutinizes these deductions and there's many an argument over them.
It's when you get companies being formed overseas or with overseas head offices and many investors overseas that the argy bargy really gets going. All sorts of rorts are in operation.
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 01:00:22 PM
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 01:01:58 PM
yobarr said
01:52 PM Nov 15, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
dogbox wrote:
the more you earn, the more tax you pay, the more you spend the more tax you pay.
Whilst that is how it is supposed to work it is pretty clear that those with the most wealth have plenty of ways of avoiding paying their fair share.
Hi Cuppa, Could I suggest that you should read and absorb the basic facts contained in the succinct post by MSG, above?
Those amongst us who bleat and moan about some people having more wealth conveniently disregard the fact that not only have such people likely risked everything they have by going in to business, but they also have provided employment for the many who are less industrious.
These employed people all pay tax, and MSG's post clearly explains the workings.
Instead of bleating "'Snot fair" might I suggest that any person who thinks that way might like to start their own business.
Perhaps increasing the GST rate is a solution as this forces everybody to pay their share of tax. Cheers
Cuppa said
02:21 PM Nov 15, 2023
yobarr wrote:
Cuppa wrote:
dogbox wrote:
the more you earn, the more tax you pay, the more you spend the more tax you pay.
Whilst that is how it is supposed to work it is pretty clear that those with the most wealth have plenty of ways of avoiding paying their fair share.
Hi Cuppa, Could I suggest that you should read and absorb the basic facts contained in the succinct post by MSG, above?
Those amongst us who bleat and moan about some people having more wealth conveniently disregard the fact that not only have such people likely risked everything they have by going in to business, but they also have provided employment for the many who are less industrious.
These employed people all pay tax, and MSG's post clearly explains the workings.
Instead of bleating "'Snot fair" might I suggest that any person who thinks that way might like to start their own business.
Perhaps increasing the GST rate is a solution as this forces everybody to pay their share of tax. Cheers
Yobarr, I'm sure when you popped out of your mother's womb it was not as the abrasive & critical character you appear to have become. If you have a different view to someone there is no call to 'talk down' to them in the way you have to me on this occasion, & that you so often do to others. You should learn a little respect & perhaps those who read your words might take notice of what your thoughts & beliefs are. As it is I can think of plenty examples of folk with wealth who have not obtained it in the way you suggest all wealthy people likely have & who do not pay their fair share to the community from which they derive their wealth. PWC just one recent example. I'm sure my making the following statement will be like a red rag to a bull for you, but I will not pursue argument with you as I suspect this is all you really want ..... an argument. My statement is "I think you are wrong". The way you choose to talk down to others is both arrogant & disrespectful to the point of frequently being downright unpleasant. Once in a while you demonstrate that you can be a little more pleasant, I think you should practice that more. Should your response be further personal attack then you will have confirmed my description of your posting style. If you have a reasoned response about the distribution of wealth in our society then perhaps we might have a discussion or debate in place of an argument. Cheers.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 02:25:05 PM
msg said
02:49 PM Nov 15, 2023
PWC Internation Co. PWC scandal over AUDITING not taxation. Knowledge of what is being planned in Government and use of confidential information. Totally different ballgame. In my humble opinion. Only got my info from online news article.
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 02:57:51 PM
Cuppa said
02:55 PM Nov 15, 2023
msg wrote:
PWC Internation Co. PWC scandal over AUDITING not taxation. Knowledge of what is being planned in Government and onselling confidential information. Totally different ballgame.
Not quite - it all centred around minimising tax by the very wealthy. Greed took precedence. Besides it is but one example of such practices. I'm sure that you are awate of other ways that the very wealthy hold onto their riches whilst avoiding their obligations to society.
msg said
03:05 PM Nov 15, 2023
What exactly are their obligations to society?
Bicyclecamper said
03:37 PM Nov 15, 2023
I am not going to get into a fight with you guy's over who said what, but whenever we have wanted something to buy since retiring, like a house or a car, or a bike, I have always got a loan for it, like this year when I bought my new bike. We are pensioners, my wife is a returned part time worker on a reduced pension due to her working, and I get a part DVA pension and nothing else. Had no problems getting the bike loan this year. Has been 30 years since I had taken out a vehicle loan otherthan a small car loan 2 years ago, having paid cash before due to having good jobs. We are lower income, and other than if you have bad credit., their is no reason why you shouldn't be able to buy big ticket items today. I regard us as rich even though we are getting less then $40k a year combined. We are also, on the tail end of paying off the house and 1 year left on the car loan. Even people in lower paid jobs can get loans like this, like my daughter, she got a $330k house loan 18 months ago, in a nice suburb of brisbane, and she is not a big wage earner, but she is building wealth by buying a cheaper house. I think what is wrong today, is the younger people want the best of everything now and they want to pay less and/ or go thru the least amount of trouble to get it. Not like us older people whom had to work hard to get what in our case is probABLY $300K IN TOTAL ASSETS. I think they want the most / the best for little effort, and until they realise that cannot/wont happen, they will keep winging that we had it easy.
--
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 04:19:35 PM
PeterInSa said
04:42 PM Nov 15, 2023
Re it all centred around minimising tax by the very wealthy
I think its to easy for international companies to minimise tax in oz. ie head office in US/Germany can charge the local company for technical advice, licencing or.. or.. to just about wipe out company profits and minimise tax
msg said
05:36 PM Nov 15, 2023
Its also very hard to prove the profits are earned in Australia and thus taxable with overseas companies. And these companies fight tooth and nail through the courts.
Note: Even the Govt agrees with minimizing tax liability. However, they come down very hard if you don't adhere to the rules particularly large companies.
We need to ban globalisation. But that would severely restrict investment. and Australia just does not have the necessary capital to go it alone on a lot of the larger projects.
Still, how much external investment is something that should be looked at and carefully managed. Definitely infrastructure and utilities and those industries essential to the sovereignty of Australia should never be privatised. IMHO
dogbox said
09:40 PM Nov 15, 2023
Cuppa wrote:
msg wrote:
PWC Internation Co. PWC scandal over AUDITING not taxation. Knowledge of what is being planned in Government and onselling confidential information. Totally different ballgame.
Not quite - it all centred around minimising tax by the very wealthy. Greed took precedence. Besides it is but one example of such practices. I'm sure that you are awate of other ways that the very wealthy hold onto their riches whilst avoiding their obligations to society.
MINIMISING tax is not illegal. the politicians make the rules and the ATO enforces the rules and spare no effort an/or expense in enforcing the rules please define where the cut off line is so we can determine at what point some one is considered very wealthy?
from what you have stated in your previous posts, that you can travel, an afford to live a life free from financial hardship, some may consider that you are very wealthy from their prospective. reminds me of the joke of the monkeys climbing the tree with the best food at the top but tree gets narrower as it goes up the ones at the top look down a see a bunch of smiling faces looking up. the ones lower down all they can see when they look up are a bunch of donkey butts. all depends were on the tree you are, as to what your prospective is.
i sure most people will not volunteer to pay any more extra tax than they have to, a lot of the wealthy people who minimize their tax can be quite generous when it comes to supporting charities of THEIR choice.
rmoor said
09:42 PM Nov 15, 2023
Yes. Transfer Pricing has been an issue for many years in the Australian Taxation System and is hard to monitor.
The large overseas corporations simply hit the Australian arm with exorbitant management fees or high loan structures and shift the Australian profits overseas.
Hard to police.
ATO data matching and other ATO initiatives are getting closer to the "wealthy" tax cheats. They are still out there but the ATO are now more competent and alert to most scams and tactics.
An old boss of mine used to say "make the money, pay the tax".
The GST has leveled the playing field somewhat, a transaction tax has been mooted before and the old debits and credits tax was abolished decades ago (Geez, I cannot remember the Acronym for it on our bank statements??? Some wise old Grey Nomad help me there !!!! I think it had a "V" in it?).
Once the cashless society is thrust upon us by sundry dingbats we may well see a return to some form of banking DR and CR's tax?
The one that really narks me is watching all our Burrendong water run a banker for months down to the profit shifting Californian and Canadian cotton thieves who then pass it off as "protecting the breeding of the water birds" - Yeah right.....
There ARE a lot of people in this country simply out for themselves.
One halfwit politician lost an election by announcing pre-election they would remove imputation credits and wondered why they lost the unloseable election.
Great, impose double taxation on investors and penalise all we hard-working Aussies who have taken the time to invest some hard earned spare cash into the stock market for some form of wealth creation.
We are unfortunately governed by Cretins (thank you for the term Norman Gunston) from all sides of politics, even the crazy ones want to put a cap on rents. Great idea, that would have about the same effect as Keating killing negative gearing on rental properties around 82/83. It was reversed quick smart as hordes of investors left the rental market virtually overnight and pushed rent prices through the roof.
There has to be, should be, but won't be a moratorium on overseas buyers in the Aussie housing market, as I mentioned before - too much tax take for the greedy pollies to squander on their hair-brained schemes. The ABC TV show "Utopia" is not a comedy, it is a dark documentary.
I don't think it is about increasing taxes, more about reigning in crazy expenditure like mid term referendums etc and unnecessary overseas travel for insignificant politicians.
I think we need KPI's for politicians, signed contracts for their promises and achievements, if they turn out to be deadwood, get rid of the %$#*$%'s.
There would be tumbleweeds in the chamber
rmoor said
10:14 PM Nov 15, 2023
In regard to PWC.
Interestingly.
I think PWC have been a protected species for a very long time.
In the year 2000 I was contracted to the Federal Dept of the Treasury as the Chief Internal Auditor for the GST Start Up Assistance Office.
My primary role was to audit the 154 Organisation Delivered Education Programs, I completed 139 of them from memory. This internal audit was done prior to the files heading over to the A.N.A.O.
About halfway through I spotted and raised the issue of Ernst and Young and PWC delivering massive GST implementation education programs to industry, sometimes 2 to 3 million and then completing an audit of their own work at the end of the program. My line boss was the General Manager, so I beat a path to his door and raised the issue of my concerns in regard to the auditor auditing itself?
It went to the boss of the Fed Treasury (name withheld) and the ANAO (Aust Nat. Audit Office.) and mulled around there for three weeks before I received a response from up the tree in relation to my concerns.
The answer - there is a "firewall" between the two and that is sufficient to warrant independence and fairness etc.
I still argued the point, but was told "Directors" from different departments WERE independent and were at an arms length form each other from within the same firm.
So, shut up, sit down and complete the rest of the audits.
To this day, I still believe the audits should have been farmed out to separate and distinct firms. I was Independent, were they?
Next contract was with the Australian Electoral Commission at "West Branch" (below Parliament House).
In my time there, the Enron and World.com disasters hit and a LOT of people lost a LOT of money and PWC and Ernst and Young from memory copped it for their inadequate auditing requirements.
I took great pleasure in contacting a few of my old "cohorts" with the satisfaction of - "I told you so!!!!".
22 years on, they are at it again so it appears..........
Maybe leopards never do change their spots, I love the Monkey story above - permission to use that one!!!!!
msg said
10:44 PM Nov 15, 2023
Lets not talk about the Murray Darling Basin issue and the poison going into the river through cotton growing. 15 or so years ago out on my brother's property, we watched thousands of dead fish in the Lachlan River float past. They were operating the cotton gin at the time. Or the draining of the Artesian Basin. Water that has run freely for centuries now capped and sold off. These are more important matters and threats to Australian Life than tax.
msg said
11:27 PM Nov 15, 2023
Too many issues of concern and no satisfactory answers are forthcoming from any avenue of government. A lot of actions seem to make no sense.
Boomers laugh all the way to the bank as young Aussies suffer (msn.com)
This type of reporting has me spitting chips. Are you laughing all the way to the bank? They forgot to mention how we saw our savings sitting in the bank earning little to nothing all that time the interest rates were so low. Now that interest rates have improved a bit, they seem to have forgotten that the little bit extra earned has been pretty well wiped out by inflation. (Don't know what's with the underlining, can't seem to remove it. )
They whinge about our 30 or 40yr houses being worth a lot of money. So what. It does nothing for me. I can't sell and get a lot of money because the housing market is so tight there is nowhere to go. I also cringe at the thought of moving into an apartment with noisy neighbours on all sides as we are told we should. What if we had another covid? I prefer to be able to walk about and potter in my garden. Thank you very much.
I am copping outlandish rates because of the increased values. and what about repairs and maintenance costs if you can get anyone to do anything.
Oh that's right all the little business owners were wiped out during covid leaving the large companies and global conglomerates who won't even look at small jobs.
This article should be a prime target for the fact checkers and the new misinformation/disinformation bill they have just passed. But sadly, it complies with the right message.
I realise this is not the young people putting out these messages, it's the global conglomerates out to further their objectives.
And also, while I'm at it, Spell check or AI, neighbours IS spelt correctly. Stop trying to change everything about our culture and teach our kids very bad spelling and grammar.
Maybe if we all chose to do as much business as possible with local firms who do not have global aspirations it might solve a lot of issues for young and old alike.
Rant over
I am unaware of too many "Boomers" laughing all the way to the bank, nor living the good life at the expense of others.
Most of us were raised in single income families, many with lost Family Members (due to WWI, WWII, Korea, Malaysia), still suffering from the after effects of the Great Global Recession. We learned in early life to be thrifty, hand-me-down clothing, one pair of shoes (also hand-me-down) reheeled and resoled by Dad at the kitchen table. We didn't buy if we couldn't afford, we scrimped and saved to pay off mortgages. Cars and telephones were only for "rich people", Dining "out" was a never, toast, dripping and baked beans were a staple.
Our great reward was changing of Pension Rules - So unless we are on the bones of our arse, we qualify for nothing - I just ignore the oft cry from the Press about how "Lucky" we were.
Remember how expensive chicken was, as a kid had it about twice a year, & it had to be thawed out & cooked at home. Mum usually bought a #16 (1.6kg).
Covid: Apart from earning no interest. Also gave my tenants a substantial discount on rent during Covid they asked for. I didn't ask for any of it back. Still had to pay all the rates & insurance etc & all of that went up, substantially.
A few people I know were also helping their tenants with reduced rent & didn't ask for it back.
Some people have very short memories!
1989 my mortgage was 17%, & it was very slow to come down, still got all the statements. We lived off bread & water. Didn't have any for of holiday for years & when I did it was renovating myself to save money (was aware of asbestos). People don't seem to know anymore even though most buildings are old enough to have it.
Two responses.
1. Stop reading the Daily Mail
2. As you suggest - Give your money to faces of folk you recognise & who recognise you.
I also occupy a large space, but I also worked non stop for 50 years and still do a little in a current wind down to full retirement.
I believe there will be added pressure in years to come at the older generation to vacate our homes in favour of others. Possibly also for the one million proposed immigrants the brains trust are planning to import.
I was contracting to Immigration in 99/2000 and still recall the hustle and activity in the ACT Belconnen dept when the first boats started to hit.
Now we allow murderers and child r$p$sts to roam free in "our" society thanks to our high court. Maybe it needs a name change?
The absolute taxation haul (stamp duty etc) from fast rising house prices has created a windfall in state govt coffers and neither they nor the feral feds have any intention to restrict overseas investors stuffing up our housing market that has boomed beyond all possible logical levels.
Then other goons raise interest rates and all they are doing is destroying the aspirations of young Australians and putting cost of living pressures on others.
The main drivers of inflation are overseas buyers (non-Australians) in real estate and greedy world oil suppliers that in turn hits our freight costs.
What is going to happen to freight costs and in turn groceries and suppliers when the crazy greenies get their way and they outlaw diesel fuel rebates and diesel fuel itself, currently on road at 20c per litre heavy transport and 48.8 cpl for farmers. I am doing two diesel rebate calculations for clients today.
One wonders where this will all stop and if we will ever get anyone with enough backbone in government to make a stand and rectify all these anomalies. I think not.
As I keep saying to a few people, I am glad I am the age that I am as we have seen the best of it. Without doubt.
Batten down the hatches friends, because I think we Grey Nomads are not far from being ostracized for working too hard and each being a part of building this fair country.
Well.....what was once a fair country, now most of us are considered to be invaders and we are about to be diluted again with a huge influx of potential street protesters.
The ones I really feel sorry for are the young, they are fast approaching little hope of EVER owning their own homes in their own right from their own endeavors as we were allowed to do, albeit at around 17% interest rates, but in a "fairer" market.
My soapbox stand for the day.......
Hey MSG. What you have just described is evident in two of the biggest (amended "greatest") superpowers - it is called communism.
We are entering that phase now, the new "misinformation bill" is the start of it.
Real Estate sourced comments are invariable intended to raise anxiety and alarm their audience. Bit like Click Bait headlines for news stories. No thoughts of downsizing here. Major shopping and health facilities have expanded out to the city to now be just up the road. Private health insurance is rebating more than premiums and I see that as a return on investment coming in at just the right time.
Moor said,
As I keep saying to a few people, I am glad I am the age that I am as we have seen the best of it. Without doubt.
Ron, I haven't always agreed with your views but I heartily concur with the above.
that tax, is what pays for all the handouts that people get from the system the more you earn, the more tax you pay, the more you spend the more tax you pay. if a few more of these people that receive some form of benefit got jobs they are capable of doing, they could get even more money from these so-called rich people (employers), then they could pay taxes and help support other people who are less fortunate.
one political party is promoting a freeze on rents, no mention of any hold on interest rates?
I wonder how many of the rental properties have mortgages on them that will soon, if not already put financial stress on the landlords, do they think that policy will encourage people to invest in rental/investment properties? if the answer is NO then the problem of rental shortages long term could get a lot worse.
It will then fall to the government to supply more public housing (the waiting list is very long), which means the people paying taxes will have to pay more tax or more people paying tax!
"It will then fall to the government to supply more public housing (the waiting list is very long), which means the people paying taxes will have to pay more tax or more people paying tax!"
Was thinking yesterday, with the planned one million immigrants coming into the country in the future where will they be housed as Dogbox says, rentals could become scarce and even more expensive.
If so, the govt will have to do what they SHOULD have done with Covid. Build camps.
(The Covid travelers should have been quarantined in camps built, not motels, the Morrison govt stuffed the whole show up bigtime).
These "imported workers" will need to be housed somewhere. Govt rental accommodation is the only answer, then adapted as flow over accommodation for all those poor Aussies now living in their cars.
Also thought, in light of the demands from some sectors of our society, they have VERY short memories. For little or NO work (some not ever in their lives), many have a roof over their heads, food in their stomachs, NEW car in the garage and money in their pockets. Yet they want more, demand change, look at the past, never at what has been provided for them TODAY.
Short memories in our new entitled society.
Whilst that is how it is supposed to work it is pretty clear that those with the most wealth have plenty of ways of avoiding paying their fair share.
what would their fair share be? some might think that people who can afford to live a life travelling around the country are a very privileged group of people who should contribute more so the people who have never contributed can live a more comfortable life.
like rentals, if you strangle the people who provide/invest in rental properties there will be fewer people who will bother with the hassles involved and there are a lot of hassles, with in most cases years of putting your own money into buying a property for some else to live in.
and in the end when it is sold you will be taxed again on any capital gains and most probably not entitled to any government benefits so any benefits that where available as far as taxation MINIMISATION from the government will be recoup if not all, most.
when you die your beneficiaries will probably say thank you very much and spend the lot on things you thought you could never afford
such is life
Providing those that do pay less tax are doing so within the taxation laws, I have no problem with that. If anyone has a problem with that, don't blame those that pay less tax, blame those that create the taxation laws (both political parties are guilty of taxation laws we have). Fair share has nothing to do with it.
Cuppa the same legislation applies to all.
In a nutshell, you pay tax on all your income less what it costs to earn that income.
Everyone. rich or poor. You pay a percentage of that income in tax. That percentage increases with increases in net income. Easy peasy.
As it happens for a person working and earning PAYG wages it doesn't usually cost them much to earn that income.
Whereas, if you run a business, you have a lot of expenses, eg employee costs, stock, machinery, and these expenses are deducted from your gross income, and you pay tax on that amount.
With capital items, generally those that last a number of years. like machinery, the ATO sets the useful life and amortises it over those years. ie divides the cost of the machinery over the expected number of useful years. That amount is called depreciation and is a deduction from income each year over its useful life.
Providing you can justify a cost as an expense it is a deduction from your income. Not from your tax as is usually believed. You pay tax on your net income. and believe me, the ATO scrutinizes these deductions and there's many an argument over them.
It's when you get companies being formed overseas or with overseas head offices and many investors overseas that the argy bargy really gets going. All sorts of rorts are in operation.
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 01:00:22 PM
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 01:01:58 PM
Hi Cuppa, Could I suggest that you should read and absorb the basic facts contained in the succinct post by MSG, above?
Those amongst us who bleat and moan about some people having more wealth conveniently disregard the fact that not only have such people likely risked everything they have by going in to business, but they also have provided employment for the many who are less industrious.
These employed people all pay tax, and MSG's post clearly explains the workings.
Instead of bleating "'Snot fair" might I suggest that any person who thinks that way might like to start their own business.
Perhaps increasing the GST rate is a solution as this forces everybody to pay their share of tax. Cheers
Yobarr, I'm sure when you popped out of your mother's womb it was not as the abrasive & critical character you appear to have become. If you have a different view to someone there is no call to 'talk down' to them in the way you have to me on this occasion, & that you so often do to others. You should learn a little respect & perhaps those who read your words might take notice of what your thoughts & beliefs are. As it is I can think of plenty examples of folk with wealth who have not obtained it in the way you suggest all wealthy people likely have & who do not pay their fair share to the community from which they derive their wealth. PWC just one recent example. I'm sure my making the following statement will be like a red rag to a bull for you, but I will not pursue argument with you as I suspect this is all you really want ..... an argument. My statement is "I think you are wrong". The way you choose to talk down to others is both arrogant & disrespectful to the point of frequently being downright unpleasant. Once in a while you demonstrate that you can be a little more pleasant, I think you should practice that more. Should your response be further personal attack then you will have confirmed my description of your posting style. If you have a reasoned response about the distribution of wealth in our society then perhaps we might have a discussion or debate in place of an argument. Cheers.
-- Edited by Cuppa on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 02:25:05 PM
PWC Internation Co. PWC scandal over AUDITING not taxation. Knowledge of what is being planned in Government and use of confidential information. Totally different ballgame. In my humble opinion. Only got my info from online news article.
-- Edited by msg on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 02:57:51 PM
Not quite - it all centred around minimising tax by the very wealthy. Greed took precedence. Besides it is but one example of such practices. I'm sure that you are awate of other ways that the very wealthy hold onto their riches whilst avoiding their obligations to society.
I am not going to get into a fight with you guy's over who said what, but whenever we have wanted something to buy since retiring, like a house or a car, or a bike, I have always got a loan for it, like this year when I bought my new bike. We are pensioners, my wife is a returned part time worker on a reduced pension due to her working, and I get a part DVA pension and nothing else. Had no problems getting the bike loan this year. Has been 30 years since I had taken out a vehicle loan otherthan a small car loan 2 years ago, having paid cash before due to having good jobs. We are lower income, and other than if you have bad credit., their is no reason why you shouldn't be able to buy big ticket items today. I regard us as rich even though we are getting less then $40k a year combined. We are also, on the tail end of paying off the house and 1 year left on the car loan. Even people in lower paid jobs can get loans like this, like my daughter, she got a $330k house loan 18 months ago, in a nice suburb of brisbane, and she is not a big wage earner, but she is building wealth by buying a cheaper house. I think what is wrong today, is the younger people want the best of everything now and they want to pay less and/ or go thru the least amount of trouble to get it. Not like us older people whom had to work hard to get what in our case is probABLY $300K IN TOTAL ASSETS. I think they want the most / the best for little effort, and until they realise that cannot/wont happen, they will keep winging that we had it easy.
--
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Wednesday 15th of November 2023 04:19:35 PM
I think its to easy for international companies to minimise tax in oz. ie head office in US/Germany can charge the local company for technical advice, licencing or.. or.. to just about wipe out company profits and minimise tax
Note: Even the Govt agrees with minimizing tax liability. However, they come down very hard if you don't adhere to the rules particularly large companies.
We need to ban globalisation. But that would severely restrict investment. and Australia just does not have the necessary capital to go it alone on a lot of the larger projects.
Still, how much external investment is something that should be looked at and carefully managed. Definitely infrastructure and utilities and those industries essential to the sovereignty of Australia should never be privatised. IMHO
MINIMISING tax is not illegal. the politicians make the rules and the ATO enforces the rules and spare no effort an/or expense in enforcing the rules
please define where the cut off line is so we can determine at what point some one is considered very wealthy?
from what you have stated in your previous posts, that you can travel, an afford to live a life free from financial hardship, some may consider that you are very wealthy from their prospective. reminds me of the joke of the monkeys climbing the tree with the best food at the top but tree gets narrower as it goes up the ones at the top look down a see a bunch of smiling faces looking up. the ones lower down all they can see when they look up are a bunch of donkey butts. all depends were on the tree you are, as to what your prospective is.
i sure most people will not volunteer to pay any more extra tax than they have to, a lot of the wealthy people who minimize their tax can be quite generous when it comes to supporting charities of THEIR choice.
The large overseas corporations simply hit the Australian arm with exorbitant management fees or high loan structures and shift the Australian profits overseas.
Hard to police.
ATO data matching and other ATO initiatives are getting closer to the "wealthy" tax cheats. They are still out there but the ATO are now more competent and alert to most scams and tactics.
An old boss of mine used to say "make the money, pay the tax".
The GST has leveled the playing field somewhat, a transaction tax has been mooted before and the old debits and credits tax was abolished decades ago (Geez, I cannot remember the Acronym for it on our bank statements??? Some wise old Grey Nomad help me there !!!! I think it had a "V" in it?).
Once the cashless society is thrust upon us by sundry dingbats we may well see a return to some form of banking DR and CR's tax?
The one that really narks me is watching all our Burrendong water run a banker for months down to the profit shifting Californian and Canadian cotton thieves who then pass it off as "protecting the breeding of the water birds" - Yeah right.....
There ARE a lot of people in this country simply out for themselves.
One halfwit politician lost an election by announcing pre-election they would remove imputation credits and wondered why they lost the unloseable election.
Great, impose double taxation on investors and penalise all we hard-working Aussies who have taken the time to invest some hard earned spare cash into the stock market for some form of wealth creation.
We are unfortunately governed by Cretins (thank you for the term Norman Gunston) from all sides of politics, even the crazy ones want to put a cap on rents. Great idea, that would have about the same effect as Keating killing negative gearing on rental properties around 82/83. It was reversed quick smart as hordes of investors left the rental market virtually overnight and pushed rent prices through the roof.
There has to be, should be, but won't be a moratorium on overseas buyers in the Aussie housing market, as I mentioned before - too much tax take for the greedy pollies to squander on their hair-brained schemes. The ABC TV show "Utopia" is not a comedy, it is a dark documentary.
I don't think it is about increasing taxes, more about reigning in crazy expenditure like mid term referendums etc and unnecessary overseas travel for insignificant politicians.
I think we need KPI's for politicians, signed contracts for their promises and achievements, if they turn out to be deadwood, get rid of the %$#*$%'s.
There would be tumbleweeds in the chamber
Interestingly.
I think PWC have been a protected species for a very long time.
In the year 2000 I was contracted to the Federal Dept of the Treasury as the Chief Internal Auditor for the GST Start Up Assistance Office.
My primary role was to audit the 154 Organisation Delivered Education Programs, I completed 139 of them from memory. This internal audit was done prior to the files heading over to the A.N.A.O.
About halfway through I spotted and raised the issue of Ernst and Young and PWC delivering massive GST implementation education programs to industry, sometimes 2 to 3 million and then completing an audit of their own work at the end of the program. My line boss was the General Manager, so I beat a path to his door and raised the issue of my concerns in regard to the auditor auditing itself?
It went to the boss of the Fed Treasury (name withheld) and the ANAO (Aust Nat. Audit Office.) and mulled around there for three weeks before I received a response from up the tree in relation to my concerns.
The answer - there is a "firewall" between the two and that is sufficient to warrant independence and fairness etc.
I still argued the point, but was told "Directors" from different departments WERE independent and were at an arms length form each other from within the same firm.
So, shut up, sit down and complete the rest of the audits.
To this day, I still believe the audits should have been farmed out to separate and distinct firms. I was Independent, were they?
Next contract was with the Australian Electoral Commission at "West Branch" (below Parliament House).
In my time there, the Enron and World.com disasters hit and a LOT of people lost a LOT of money and PWC and Ernst and Young from memory copped it for their inadequate auditing requirements.
I took great pleasure in contacting a few of my old "cohorts" with the satisfaction of - "I told you so!!!!".
22 years on, they are at it again so it appears..........
Maybe leopards never do change their spots, I love the Monkey story above - permission to use that one!!!!!