Electricity prices are expected to rise due to the increase in the price of coal and gas. It has been advised that people should shop around for a better price for their electricity and maybe gas.
Calls for competition watchdog to step up policing as energy crisis sparks price gouging fears
Had a big chat on the phone with an old mate who lives in NQ and he and his wife are currently renting a place due to illness and he tells me that they have no choice either when it comes to Power Providers.
The people in that position, and I would guess that their numbers would be in the thousands, will have no choice but to pay up and shut up.
I wont comment any more on the opening post as I really dont know what direction the OP might expect this topic to go.
msg said
12:47 PM Jun 4, 2022
We are being conditioned to accept that we may have to endure electricity and gas shortages in the future and ever higher prices.
Why? We have plenty of the raw materials to supply us for many years. Why? Because those that control these resources have agreed to advance contracts to export our resources overseas. Much like our agricultural produce. Export markets should be utilised to sell excess produce and resources.. We are suffering because of the GREED of big business. You can't keep warm with and eat money.
GREED. I wonder how many of the companies that own our electricity companies are wholly Australian and not owned overall by an overseas company.
-- Edited by msg on Saturday 4th of June 2022 12:49:56 PM
yobarr said
12:54 PM Jun 4, 2022
rgren2 wrote:
We only have one supplier. No choice.
Provided that you are the property owner I would strongly advise that you install a decent Solar system. When I bought my last home, a large 4 bedroom 2 lounge property, I immediately installed 6.5kw Solar and we NEVER got an electricity bill despite my late Mrs loving the AC in summer and heater in winter. A GOOD Solar system will pay for itself in around 3 years. Pretty good return I'd suggest? Cheers
rgren2 said
01:19 PM Jun 4, 2022
Have solar, my feed in rate has dropped to $0.07, I have to pay $0.22, they get more than I take, was a bit late to get the big payment. Bill dropped from around $750 per quarter to under $200. The pool is the biggest user.
msg said
01:56 PM Jun 4, 2022
Solar cannot in a lot of cases cannot be installed.
Buzz Lightbulb said
02:19 PM Jun 4, 2022
yobarr wrote:
rgren2 wrote:
We only have one supplier. No choice.
Provided that you are the property owner I would strongly advise that you install a decent Solar system. When I bought my last home, a large 4 bedroom 2 lounge property, I immediately installed 6.5kw Solar and we NEVER got an electricity bill despite my late Mrs loving the AC in summer and heater in winter. A GOOD Solar system will pay for itself in around 3 years. Pretty good return I'd suggest? Cheers
Actually I saw an article that supports that advice. I think this is that article:
I understand that some people can't install solar. There may be alternatives like those community batteries or something like that.
Buzz Lightbulb said
02:23 PM Jun 4, 2022
msg wrote:
We are being conditioned to accept that we may have to endure electricity and gas shortages in the future and ever higher prices.
Why? We have plenty of the raw materials to supply us for many years. Why? Because those that control these resources have agreed to advance contracts to export our resources overseas. Much like our agricultural produce. Export markets should be utilised to sell excess produce and resources.. We are suffering because of the GREED of big business. You can't keep warm with and eat money.
GREED. I wonder how many of the companies that own our electricity companies are wholly Australian and not owned overall by an overseas company.
-- Edited by msg on Saturday 4th of June 2022 12:49:56 PM
I think that I read there is some process where the federal government can step in and demand that Australians be given cheaper gas (and maybe other resources). I would imagine that the government would have to be very careful in making that decision. It could affect our credit rating, amongst other things, if overseas supply contracts are cancelled.
yobarr said
02:31 PM Jun 4, 2022
msg wrote:
Solar cannot in a lot of cases cannot be installed.
Please explain. Agreed that shade issues are sometimes a problem and bodies corporate can be a PITA, but perhaps you have other thoughts? The biggest problem in the Solar industry is that many retailers and installers know very little and are more interested in lining their own pockets than doing good for the customer. Cheers
Craig1 said
02:43 PM Jun 4, 2022
Some estates have a locked in deal with the energy provider, I think they get the kickback. Daughter was renting in Point Cook, locked down for telco , gas and electricty. No comeback from ACCC either.
yobarr said
02:45 PM Jun 4, 2022
rgren2 wrote:
Have solar, my feed in rate has dropped to $0.07, I have to pay $0.22, they get more than I take, was a bit late to get the big payment. Bill dropped from around $750 per quarter to under $200. The pool is the biggest user.
Hi Rod. I hope that you're smart enough to have put the pool on the T11 meter and that you run it during the day? So many think they'll be clever and put it on off- peak, but that's plain stupid. Same with Hot Water, dependent on production and usage. It can be a complicated business which, unfortunately, is understood by too few. A GOOD Solar system will eliminate your bill, but cutting it by $550 is still pretty good! If you wish to PM me I am happy to look at your bill and perhaps offer advice? Cheers
86GTS said
02:57 PM Jun 4, 2022
We get ours at "mates rates".
Whenarewethere said
03:09 PM Jun 4, 2022
We are only on electricity, no gas in our building.
Previous year 3,645kWh. We are on the default price, I did look at cheaper options, which were cheaper, but the daily connection fee was higher. Due to living in two adjoining Units we pay a daily connection fee for each Unit.
$642.40 network connection (2 Units)
$1001.69 actual electricity (2 Units)
2021 total energy bill $1644.09
If total costs go up 20% it's $1972.91 in total, $328.82 extra, so what!
msg said
03:49 PM Jun 4, 2022
Yes Yobar. I have a shade issue and a no sun issue. My trees are protected trees and cannot be cut down unless they are a danger. Anyway I like them. They keep the house cool in the summer and in winter to a certain degree protect from the cold. This would save electricity use to a certain extent. About the biggest downside are the constant leaves and sticks dropping everywhere. No big boughs though over 30yrs. (touch wood)
The other one would be Body corporate.
Another one might be a lack of capital and an inability to take out a loan. Short term thinking maybe but nontheless a reason.
The panels don't last forever. They are not environmentally friendly in themselves. They need energy and resources to make them and the same to dispose of them.
yobarr said
04:33 PM Jun 4, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
We are only on electricity, no gas in our building.
Previous year 3,645kWh. We are on the default price, I did look at cheaper options, which were cheaper, but the daily connection fee was higher. Due to living in two adjoining Units we pay a daily connection fee for each Unit.
$642.40 network connection (2 Units)
$1001.69 actual electricity (2 Units)
2021 total energy bill $1644.09
If total costs go up 20% it's $1972.91 in total, $328.82 extra, so what!
Hi Jonathan. With bills that low you wouldn't bother doing anything! When I was selling Solar, some time ago now, a normal bill was around $2000/year. Best I saw was $4000/3 months at a house in Brisbane so I sold him a huge system which he must have been pleased with as I have never heard from him in over 3 years! Done properly Solar will get rid of almost any power bill. Cheers
yobarr said
04:47 PM Jun 4, 2022
msg wrote:
Yes Yobar. I have a shade issue and a no sun issue. My trees are protected trees and cannot be cut down unless they are a danger. Anyway I like them. They keep the house cool in the summer and in winter to a certain degree protect from the cold. This would save electricity use to a certain extent. About the biggest downside are the constant leaves and sticks dropping everywhere. No big boughs though over 30yrs. (touch wood)
The other one would be Body corporate.
Another one might be a lack of capital and an inability to take out a loan. Short term thinking maybe but nontheless a reason.
The panels don't last forever. They are not environmentally friendly in themselves. They need energy and resources to make them and the same to dispose of them.
Some good points here, and some misunderstandings too! Panels may not last forever but I used to sell Solar in Geelong and surrounds and I know a chap in Ballarat who installed Solar in 1974, waaaay before it ever became popular. He reports that those panels still are producing as much now as they did 48 years ago! Capital is not a problem unless you've got an absolutely terrible credit rating and the savings on your power bill cover the loan repayments, but do not increase each year, as do power prices. Body corporates are generally a sheep in wolves clothing, but I will not elaborate, so no point asking! Same as "Heritage protected" buildings. Shade MAY be an issue, but rarely is a house shaded on 3 sides. Panels North is a fallacy, but I won't go there either. You've just got to find someone who knows what they're talking about. Please note that I'm no longer doing Solar, so not interested in trying to sell you anything, but happy to offer advice where I can. Cheers
P.S Copper nails sort unwanted trees out easily.
PeterInSa said
05:04 PM Jun 4, 2022
Have Solar with 54c feed in credit per Kw and 21% off electricity and Gas in SA, But do not have a smart meter so am on top ( Peak) usage at 39.9c/Kw.
( maybe this is why my contract has not been re negotiated like others from this supplier.)
Mate with a smart meter is paying 19.964lw for off peak and 16.412kw for shoulder usage,
Will talk to my electrician neighbour about a meter switch.
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Saturday 4th of June 2022 05:07:16 PM
msg said
06:47 PM Jun 4, 2022
Yobarr, So your saying I can get sufficient sun on panels over 2hr late afternoon sunshine? especially when we havn't had sun for a long time. It wouldn't even power my van. I don't want to get rid of my trees. They are a great carbon sink. Solar panels deteriate over time.
Taking out finance in the hope of making savings in 5rs time is not a great idea. I advise people to do their sums there. Whats the difference to paying interest and capital on a loan and paying an electricity bill. It also would be a sum worth doing with good interest return and working out the opportunity cost of spending your own capital.
-- Edited by msg on Saturday 4th of June 2022 06:49:35 PM
rgren2 said
06:52 PM Jun 4, 2022
Pool runs from 8am to 11am. We have two HW systems, they are off peak as it is too expensive to connect otherwise. The solar payed for itself within 3.5 years.
-- Edited by rgren2 on Saturday 4th of June 2022 06:54:43 PM
yobarr said
07:48 PM Jun 4, 2022
msg wrote:
Yobarr, So your saying I can get sufficient sun on panels over 2hr late afternoon sunshine? especially when we havn't had sun for a long time. It wouldn't even power my van. I don't want to get rid of my trees. They are a great carbon sink. Solar panels deteriate over time.
Taking out finance in the hope of making savings in 5rs time is not a great idea. I advise people to do their sums there. Whats the difference to paying interest and capital on a loan and paying an electricity bill. It also would be a sum worth doing with good interest return and working out the opportunity cost of spending your own capital.
What ARE you on about? Does your house have trees East and North? Everything deteriorates ( note spelling) over time, but I would suggest that something that pays for itself in 3-4 years, and last 40 years, would be a sound investment. You are in no position to "Ask people to do their sums" while I know, and can prove, that GOOD Solar is a solid investment that has better returns each year as power prices rise. Your analogy of comparing interest and capital on a loan with paying an Electricity bill is invalid in that if you purchase a quality solar system, after 3-4 years you OWN an income-producing asset that will last many years, but if you continue to pay your ever-increasing power bill, at the end of 3-4 years all you have is empty pockets. At the end of 10 years or 20 years those pockets still will be empty. Few products give returns as good as those given by a quality Solar system. As for your comment about "sum worth doing with good interest", surely you jest? Where can anybody these days get "good interest". Inflation is much higher than interest rates on savings etc, so those with cash in the bank are continually losing money. And things are about to get worse. Cheers
P.S My original post was simply to offer advice to you from my many years selling solar, and to offer help if wanted. Bit sad when my good advice is challenged by someone who clearly has little understanding of the industry. C'est la vie.
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 4th of June 2022 08:20:25 PM
msg said
08:29 PM Jun 4, 2022
Yobarr, Resorting to belittle somebody? Yes, As a matter of fact I am in such a position. The trees surround the house and are 80ft high.
You say I am not in a position to ask people to do their sums. My degree and occupation would disagree with that.
Yobarr wrote: Your analogy of comparing interest and capital on a loan with paying an Electricity bill is invalid in that if you purchase a quality solar system, after 3-4 years you OWN an income-producing asset tyat will last many years, but if you continue to pay your ever-increasing power bill, at the end of 3-4 years all you have is empty pockets.
That can happen with loans as well. Especially now with interest rate rises and you happen to have a loan with variable rates. Just do your sums. It is a very valid analogy. Especially for a lot of people on here. Oh and I didn't say it was wrong I just said do your sums. Things are changing.
Interest rates are on upwards movement even now. Both for savings and loans. Moreso for loans. Do your sums and work out if it will work for you. Know the pitfalls.
Inflation: All that says it will cost you more if you leave it for a few years. But so will your capacity to pay. Even if you are on a pension. So it is a nil sum.
yobarr said
08:30 PM Jun 4, 2022
rgren2 wrote:
Pool runs from 8am to 11am. We have two HW systems, they are off peak as it is too expensive to connect otherwise. The solar payed for itself within 3.5 years.-- Edited by rgren2 on Saturday 4th of June 2022 06:54:43 PM
Hi Rod. Depending on your usage patterns and what size solar system you have, along with variables such as your FIT, your HW cylinder size and your off-peak rate, sometimes it is beneficial to put your HW onto the T11 meter and heat your water during the day. Many questions to be asked, so my advice is only general. However, I have just noticed that your FIT is only 7 cents, so it is well worthwhile putting your HW systems onto T11, dependent on their sizes. Cheers
yobarr said
08:46 PM Jun 4, 2022
msg wrote:
Yobarr, Resorting to belittle somebody? Yes, As a matter of fact I am in such a position. The trees surround the house and are 80ft high.
You say I am not in a position to ask people to do their sums. My degree and occupation would disagree with that.
Yobarr wrote: Your analogy of comparing interest and capital on a loan with paying an Electricity bill is invalid in that if you purchase a quality solar system, after 3-4 years you OWN an income-producing asset tyat will last many years, but if you continue to pay your ever-increasing power bill, at the end of 3-4 years all you have is empty pockets.
That can happen with loans as well. Especially now with interest rate rises and you happen to have a loan with variable rates. Just do your sums. It is a very valid analogy. Especially for a lot of people on here. Oh and I didn't say it was wrong I just said do your sums. Things are changing.
Interest rates are on upwards movement even now. Both for savings and loans. Moreso for loans. Do your sums and work out if it will work for you. Know the pitfalls.
Inflation: All that says it will cost you more if you leave it for a few years. But so will your capacity to pay. Even if you are on a pension. So it is a nil sum.
The relevant loan is a fixed term loan and the payments are less than the savings on the power bill, so the system costs you nothing. Most impressed that you have some sort of degree, but that doesn't change the fact that you clearly have little understanding of the Solar industry. It is pointless advising others to " do your sums and work it out" as there is simply nothing to "work out". And provided a quality system is purchased, there are no "pitfalls". But again I will say that I was simply offering to help you, not realising that I'd be challenged. Sorry I bothered. Cheers
msg said
09:29 PM Jun 4, 2022
I doubt that you will get a decent fixed rate loan at the moment or in the near future. The very first sentence does not make sense. Your knowledge of the finance world is also quite lacking.
Whenarewethere said
09:51 PM Jun 4, 2022
A longer term thing worth doing is adding additional insulation to electric hot water tanks. I reduced the 80L 1.67kWh per 24 hour heat loss to 0.95kWh per 24 hours, adding about R5 of additional insulation.
Litres kWh/24h
25L 1.18
50L 1.39
80L 1.67
125L 1.95
160L 2.16
250L 2.58
315L 2.86
400L 3.07
Bicyclecamper said
11:22 PM Jun 4, 2022
msg wrote:
I doubt that you will get a decent fixed rate loan at the moment or in the near future. The very first sentence does not make sense. Your knowledge of the finance world is also quite lacking.
I got a fixed home loan rate 15 years ago from Defence Services Homes Loan, of 1.85 % fixed, it hasn't changed in all these years, only 10 years to go, and very little to pay fortnitely, as well.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 4th of June 2022 11:32:21 PM
Bicyclecamper said
11:29 PM Jun 4, 2022
Whenarewethere wrote:
A longer term thing worth doing is adding additional insulation to electric hot water tanks. I reduced the 80L 1.67kWh per 24 hour heat loss to 0.95kWh per 24 hours, adding about R5 of additional insulation.
Litres kWh/24h
25L 1.18
50L 1.39
80L 1.67
125L 1.95
160L 2.16
250L 2.58
315L 2.86
400L 3.07
I did the same thing, added insulation to the outside of the hot water heater, Wool insulation, and bagged it in waterproof bagging, as it sits outside, made a hell of a difference to keeping the water hot, also did same with the water pipes. Nice to be able to turn on a tap and it is still hot, hours after you last used it.
Whenarewethere said
06:08 AM Jun 5, 2022
I did the pipes as well.
The 0.95 figure I got would actually be better as the standard test is at an ambient temperature of 21°C.
When I measured with the additional insulation the ambient temperature was 15°C.
I was very surprised just how hot the tank was slipping your hand under the additional insulation.
I used left over materials. First layer of building bubble wrap, that worked. Later added R4 polyester batts, two layers on top. Then covered whole thing in building bubble wrap.
The tank also has a U trap, the U bend in the pipe. This stops heat loss going through the pipe as the water can't move. So you only have the actual pipe conducting heat.
My total FIT is 52c/kWh Thanks to the great Qld Gov 44c.
Unfortunately at the time of installation, given the then price of Solar I only went for a 1.5 kWh system .. Another wrong decision.
(My bloody Chinese owned power company has reduced a miserable FIT payment of 11c to 8c per kWh)
So with a usage rate of 28c Peak & 23c Controlled per kWh (less a 28% pay on time discount) I am still best off feeding as much as possible into the grid.
We run the washing machine during the night. Wish we could do the same for the drier. edit .. In sunny Qld about the only use for the drier is to get the towels fluffy .. except in the recent unseasonal rainy weather.
Our HWS is on off peak (controlled) tariff too.
I wash the panels as frequently as I can & there are no shadows on them.
ps ... Recently the bill arrived on the last day of the Pay on Time discount day. When I rang to complain indicating my intention to go elsewhere they miraculously revealed an improved offer - Peak 17c v 20c discounted for POT; Controlled 14c v 16.5c with POT disc. But also the 'Daily Rate down from $1.20/day to $0.96 another $20 or so saving.
Oh BTW they said that because we were good payers they would have applied the POT discount even if we were late paying. LOL
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 5th of June 2022 12:50:55 PM
Electricity prices are expected to rise due to the increase in the price of coal and gas. It has been advised that people should shop around for a better price for their electricity and maybe gas.
Calls for competition watchdog to step up policing as energy crisis sparks price gouging fears
[url[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-04/australian-energy-crisis-fuels-accc-concerns/101124618[/url]
The people in that position, and I would guess that their numbers would be in the thousands, will have no choice but to pay up and shut up.
I wont comment any more on the opening post as I really dont know what direction the OP might expect this topic to go.
We are being conditioned to accept that we may have to endure electricity and gas shortages in the future and ever higher prices.
Why? We have plenty of the raw materials to supply us for many years. Why? Because those that control these resources have agreed to advance contracts to export our resources overseas. Much like our agricultural produce. Export markets should be utilised to sell excess produce and resources.. We are suffering because of the GREED of big business. You can't keep warm with and eat money.
GREED. I wonder how many of the companies that own our electricity companies are wholly Australian and not owned overall by an overseas company.
-- Edited by msg on Saturday 4th of June 2022 12:49:56 PM
Provided that you are the property owner I would strongly advise that you install a decent Solar system. When I bought my last home, a large 4 bedroom 2 lounge property, I immediately installed 6.5kw Solar and we NEVER got an electricity bill despite my late Mrs loving the AC in summer and heater in winter. A GOOD Solar system will pay for itself in around 3 years. Pretty good return I'd suggest? Cheers
Actually I saw an article that supports that advice. I think this is that article:
Is rooftop solar worth the investment?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-04/qld-solar-panel-costs-prices-energy-crisis/101124340
I understand that some people can't install solar. There may be alternatives like those community batteries or something like that.
I think that I read there is some process where the federal government can step in and demand that Australians be given cheaper gas (and maybe other resources). I would imagine that the government would have to be very careful in making that decision. It could affect our credit rating, amongst other things, if overseas supply contracts are cancelled.
Please explain. Agreed that shade issues are sometimes a problem and bodies corporate can be a PITA, but perhaps you have other thoughts? The biggest problem in the Solar industry is that many retailers and installers know very little and are more interested in lining their own pockets than doing good for the customer. Cheers
Hi Rod. I hope that you're smart enough to have put the pool on the T11 meter and that you run it during the day? So many think they'll be clever and put it on off- peak, but that's plain stupid. Same with Hot Water, dependent on production and usage. It can be a complicated business which, unfortunately, is understood by too few. A GOOD Solar system will eliminate your bill, but cutting it by $550 is still pretty good! If you wish to PM me I am happy to look at your bill and perhaps offer advice? Cheers
We get ours at "mates rates".
We are only on electricity, no gas in our building.
Previous year 3,645kWh. We are on the default price, I did look at cheaper options, which were cheaper, but the daily connection fee was higher. Due to living in two adjoining Units we pay a daily connection fee for each Unit.
$642.40 network connection (2 Units)
$1001.69 actual electricity (2 Units)
2021 total energy bill $1644.09
If total costs go up 20% it's $1972.91 in total, $328.82 extra, so what!
Yes Yobar. I have a shade issue and a no sun issue. My trees are protected trees and cannot be cut down unless they are a danger. Anyway I like them. They keep the house cool in the summer and in winter to a certain degree protect from the cold. This would save electricity use to a certain extent. About the biggest downside are the constant leaves and sticks dropping everywhere. No big boughs though over 30yrs. (touch wood)
The other one would be Body corporate.
Another one might be a lack of capital and an inability to take out a loan. Short term thinking maybe but nontheless a reason.
The panels don't last forever. They are not environmentally friendly in themselves. They need energy and resources to make them and the same to dispose of them.
Hi Jonathan. With bills that low you wouldn't bother doing anything! When I was selling Solar, some time ago now, a normal bill was around $2000/year. Best I saw was $4000/3 months at a house in Brisbane so I sold him a huge system which he must have been pleased with as I have never heard from him in over 3 years! Done properly Solar will get rid of almost any power bill. Cheers
Some good points here, and some misunderstandings too! Panels may not last forever but I used to sell Solar in Geelong and surrounds and I know a chap in Ballarat who installed Solar in 1974, waaaay before it ever became popular. He reports that those panels still are producing as much now as they did 48 years ago! Capital is not a problem unless you've got an absolutely terrible credit rating and the savings on your power bill cover the loan repayments, but do not increase each year, as do power prices. Body corporates are generally a sheep in wolves clothing, but I will not elaborate, so no point asking! Same as "Heritage protected" buildings. Shade MAY be an issue, but rarely is a house shaded on 3 sides. Panels North is a fallacy, but I won't go there either. You've just got to find someone who knows what they're talking about. Please note that I'm no longer doing Solar, so not interested in trying to sell you anything, but happy to offer advice where I can. Cheers
P.S Copper nails sort unwanted trees out easily.
Have Solar with 54c feed in credit per Kw and 21% off electricity and Gas in SA, But do not have a smart meter so am on top ( Peak) usage at 39.9c/Kw.
( maybe this is why my contract has not been re negotiated like others from this supplier.)
Mate with a smart meter is paying 19.964lw for off peak and 16.412kw for shoulder usage,
Will talk to my electrician neighbour about a meter switch.
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/energy-and-environment/meters/smart-meters#title0
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Saturday 4th of June 2022 05:07:16 PM
Yobarr, So your saying I can get sufficient sun on panels over 2hr late afternoon sunshine? especially when we havn't had sun for a long time. It wouldn't even power my van. I don't want to get rid of my trees. They are a great carbon sink. Solar panels deteriate over time.
Taking out finance in the hope of making savings in 5rs time is not a great idea. I advise people to do their sums there. Whats the difference to paying interest and capital on a loan and paying an electricity bill. It also would be a sum worth doing with good interest return and working out the opportunity cost of spending your own capital.
-- Edited by msg on Saturday 4th of June 2022 06:49:35 PM
Pool runs from 8am to 11am. We have two HW systems, they are off peak as it is too expensive to connect otherwise. The solar payed for itself within 3.5 years.
-- Edited by rgren2 on Saturday 4th of June 2022 06:54:43 PM
What ARE you on about? Does your house have trees East and North? Everything deteriorates ( note spelling) over time, but I would suggest that something that pays for itself in 3-4 years, and last 40 years, would be a sound investment. You are in no position to "Ask people to do their sums" while I know, and can prove, that GOOD Solar is a solid investment that has better returns each year as power prices rise. Your analogy of comparing interest and capital on a loan with paying an Electricity bill is invalid in that if you purchase a quality solar system, after 3-4 years you OWN an income-producing asset that will last many years, but if you continue to pay your ever-increasing power bill, at the end of 3-4 years all you have is empty pockets. At the end of 10 years or 20 years those pockets still will be empty. Few products give returns as good as those given by a quality Solar system. As for your comment about "sum worth doing with good interest", surely you jest? Where can anybody these days get "good interest". Inflation is much higher than interest rates on savings etc, so those with cash in the bank are continually losing money. And things are about to get worse. Cheers
P.S My original post was simply to offer advice to you from my many years selling solar, and to offer help if wanted. Bit sad when my good advice is challenged by someone who clearly has little understanding of the industry. C'est la vie.
-- Edited by yobarr on Saturday 4th of June 2022 08:20:25 PM
Yobarr, Resorting to belittle somebody? Yes, As a matter of fact I am in such a position. The trees surround the house and are 80ft high.
You say I am not in a position to ask people to do their sums. My degree and occupation would disagree with that.
Yobarr wrote: Your analogy of comparing interest and capital on a loan with paying an Electricity bill is invalid in that if you purchase a quality solar system, after 3-4 years you OWN an income-producing asset tyat will last many years, but if you continue to pay your ever-increasing power bill, at the end of 3-4 years all you have is empty pockets.
That can happen with loans as well. Especially now with interest rate rises and you happen to have a loan with variable rates. Just do your sums. It is a very valid analogy. Especially for a lot of people on here. Oh and I didn't say it was wrong I just said do your sums. Things are changing.
Interest rates are on upwards movement even now. Both for savings and loans. Moreso for loans. Do your sums and work out if it will work for you. Know the pitfalls.
Inflation: All that says it will cost you more if you leave it for a few years. But so will your capacity to pay. Even if you are on a pension. So it is a nil sum.
Hi Rod. Depending on your usage patterns and what size solar system you have, along with variables such as your FIT, your HW cylinder size and your off-peak rate, sometimes it is beneficial to put your HW onto the T11 meter and heat your water during the day. Many questions to be asked, so my advice is only general. However, I have just noticed that your FIT is only 7 cents, so it is well worthwhile putting your HW systems onto T11, dependent on their sizes. Cheers
The relevant loan is a fixed term loan and the payments are less than the savings on the power bill, so the system costs you nothing. Most impressed that you have some sort of degree, but that doesn't change the fact that you clearly have little understanding of the Solar industry. It is pointless advising others to " do your sums and work it out" as there is simply nothing to "work out". And provided a quality system is purchased, there are no "pitfalls". But again I will say that I was simply offering to help you, not realising that I'd be challenged. Sorry I bothered. Cheers
A longer term thing worth doing is adding additional insulation to electric hot water tanks. I reduced the 80L 1.67kWh per 24 hour heat loss to 0.95kWh per 24 hours, adding about R5 of additional insulation.
Litres kWh/24h
25L 1.18
50L 1.39
80L 1.67
125L 1.95
160L 2.16
250L 2.58
315L 2.86
400L 3.07
I got a fixed home loan rate 15 years ago from Defence Services Homes Loan, of 1.85 % fixed, it hasn't changed in all these years, only 10 years to go, and very little to pay fortnitely, as well.
-- Edited by Bicyclecamper on Saturday 4th of June 2022 11:32:21 PM
I did the same thing, added insulation to the outside of the hot water heater, Wool insulation, and bagged it in waterproof bagging, as it sits outside, made a hell of a difference to keeping the water hot, also did same with the water pipes. Nice to be able to turn on a tap and it is still hot, hours after you last used it.
I did the pipes as well.
The 0.95 figure I got would actually be better as the standard test is at an ambient temperature of 21°C.
When I measured with the additional insulation the ambient temperature was 15°C.
I was very surprised just how hot the tank was slipping your hand under the additional insulation.
I used left over materials. First layer of building bubble wrap, that worked. Later added R4 polyester batts, two layers on top. Then covered whole thing in building bubble wrap.
The tank also has a U trap, the U bend in the pipe. This stops heat loss going through the pipe as the water can't move. So you only have the actual pipe conducting heat.
My total FIT is 52c/kWh Thanks to the great Qld Gov 44c.
Unfortunately at the time of installation, given the then price of Solar I only went for a 1.5 kWh system .. Another wrong decision.
(My bloody Chinese owned power company has reduced a miserable FIT payment of 11c to 8c per kWh)
So with a usage rate of 28c Peak & 23c Controlled per kWh (less a 28% pay on time discount) I am still best off feeding as much as possible into the grid.
We run the washing machine during the night. Wish we could do the same for the drier. edit .. In sunny Qld about the only use for the drier is to get the towels fluffy .. except in the recent unseasonal rainy weather.
Our HWS is on off peak (controlled) tariff too.
I wash the panels as frequently as I can & there are no shadows on them.
ps ... Recently the bill arrived on the last day of the Pay on Time discount day. When I rang to complain indicating my intention to go elsewhere they miraculously revealed an improved offer - Peak 17c v 20c discounted for POT; Controlled 14c v 16.5c with POT disc. But also the 'Daily Rate down from $1.20/day to $0.96 another $20 or so saving.
Oh BTW they said that because we were good payers they would have applied the POT discount even if we were late paying. LOL
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 5th of June 2022 12:50:55 PM