The appalling results at the COP26 gives me climate stress. Is there no hope? If one reads many of the comments posted on this forum, one would think that the majority of boomers are climate skeptics. That makes me want to leave this forum. It's depressing to think that no one here wants the climate fixed.
Then I read somewhere that the majority of boomers do care about climate change and many, like I, are doing what they can to minimise their carbon footprint. So why does it seem that this forum is full of climate skeptics? Maybe it's just a few people who make the most noise and it only SEEMS like the majority of grey nomads don't care about future generations?
So please, help me decide if the GNs are my type of people by answering, 'yes' or 'no' to these two questions and please don't make this a discussion. It's a poll.
Thank you.
Do you believe in climate change and it's caused by humans?
Yes or no.
Do you believe you should do your best to minimise your carbon footprint?
Yes or no.......
Well, it was a simple request to try and get a poll working but, as usually someone has to force their views so here's a discussion forum for all you wjo just can't help yourself.
Buzz Lightbulb said
04:39 PM Nov 14, 2021
The web interface doesn't allow multiple questions and answers so I've had to reduce the two questions into the most important one.
And yes, I did try checkboxes but they dont work on my browser. Blame the developers, not Cindy nor me.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Sunday 14th of November 2021 04:40:17 PM
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Sunday 14th of November 2021 08:59:30 PM
dorian said
09:48 AM Nov 15, 2021
My question would be, if you're not a scientist, specifically a climate scientist, then what is your opinion worth? Are you even entitled to have one? When Charlie Teo is preparing for his next neurosurgery, does he call you and ask for your opinion?
Let me answer my own question. Your opinion is worth absolutely nothing. My opinion is to defer to the collective opinion of the scientific community.
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:39 AM Nov 15, 2021
dorian wrote:
My question would be, if you're not a scientist, specifically a climate scientist, then what is your opinion worth? Are you even entitled to have one? When Charlie Teo is preparing for his next neurosurgery, does he call you and ask for your opinion?
Let me answer my own question. Your opinion is worth absolutely nothing. My opinion is to defer to the collective opinion of the scientific community.
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion but you've missed the point. I'm not pushing an opinion, I'm trying to reduce my climate stress by deciding with whom I should communicate and your criticism doesn't bode well.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 15th of November 2021 11:39:53 AM
Mobi Condo said
11:44 AM Nov 15, 2021
Dorian, my take is that when the scientists, that is ALL the scientists agree with proof, on a matter then I will start to listen.
In the meantime I do observe that climate change has been happening since time began, and no I am not billions of years old - just looking at many recorded observations of the scientific world and noticing how some records are suddenly wiped as inaccurate after a group of "new" scientists push a political agender.
Santa said
11:53 AM Nov 15, 2021
dorian wrote:
When Charlie Teo is preparing for his next neurosurgery, does he call you and ask for your opinion?
No, he calls and asks how much do you have in your bank account, can you afford me.
dorian said
01:11 PM Nov 15, 2021
Mobi Condo wrote:
Dorian, my take is that when the scientists, that is ALL the scientists agree with proof, on a matter then I will start to listen.
It doesn't matter how many skeptical scientists there are, your opinion is still worth nothing. Theirs has value, though.
Charlie Teo has many detractors in the medical profession. Does the mere existence of these detractors entitle you to an opinion about his next surgery?
Buzz Lightbulb said
01:17 PM Nov 15, 2021
I just looked at the poll and it shows 52% believe in climate change. Maybe there is hope?
However, only 23 out of nearly 26,000 people have voted. Does it just require time for people to respond to a poll or couldn't they be bothered about the most important issue humanity has faced, so far?
Can it be that they are afraid to vote because of the criticism they may get? I've certainly felt the abuse but surely the polls are anonomyous?
Buzz Lightbulb said
01:21 PM Nov 15, 2021
dorian wrote:
Charlie Teo has many detractors in the medical profession. Does the mere existence of these detractors entitle you to an opinion about his next surgery?
Or should people NOT have the surgery because another 'expert' doesn't agree?
Buzz Lightbulb said
01:24 PM Nov 15, 2021
Mobi Condo wrote:
Dorian, my take is that when the scientists, that is ALL the scientists agree with proof, on a matter then I will start to listen.
In the meantime I do observe that climate change has been happening since time began, and no I am not billions of years old - just looking at many recorded observations of the scientific world and noticing how some records are suddenly wiped as inaccurate after a group of "new" scientists push a political agender.
That's like saying "I'll not help the burning ship I'm on until everyone agrees that the ship is burning."
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 15th of November 2021 01:50:13 PM
Rob Driver said
01:29 PM Nov 15, 2021
Hey Buzz,
Voting is anonymous so unless one comments, the other members do not know which way you voted.
I really do t think that of the 23 people that did vote, any one of them would not be afraid of the criticism.
This is a public forum and as such each person has and is entitled to his / her own opinion. If it doesnt fit the result you wanted then you need to just deal with it.
BTW the current percentage indicates only one vote the difference between the two views. Maybe a session with a megaphone out in a large shopping centre on a pulpit, or wandering about kissing babies may help to sway it to favour your views and agenda.
Buzz Lightbulb said
01:54 PM Nov 15, 2021
Rob Driver wrote:
Hey Buzz,
... This is a public forum and as such each person has and is entitled to his / her own opinion. ...
Thanks Rob,
I thought that voting was anonymous and thanks for clarifying that.
According to Dorian you are wrong, I'm NOT entitled to an opinion.
dorian said
03:19 PM Nov 15, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
According to Dorian you are wrong, I'm NOT entitled to an opinion.
You can have an opinion as long as you understand its value, which is essentially nothing.
Buzz Lightbulb said
03:33 PM Nov 15, 2021
dorian wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
According to Dorian you are wrong, I'm NOT entitled to an opinion.
You can have an opinion as long as you understand its value, which is essentially nothing.
Again, you seem to have misunderstood my purpose. If the poll shows that I'm dealing with mostly like minded people then it's worth my time continuing with the GNs.
The continued attack on me is also a contributing factor to my reasons for considering leaving this forum.
DeBe said
03:57 PM Nov 15, 2021
As far as forums or life in general go you wont find mostly like minded people. Every body is different minded & just as well.
dorian said
03:57 PM Nov 15, 2021
@Buzz, why do you consider my statements as a personal attack? I am merely stating the obvious, namely that neither you nor I have the necessary scientific qualifications to formulate a valid opinion on this subject. I don't feel demeaned by my ignorance of this subject, and neither should you. If I've underestimated you, and you are in fact a climate scientist, then please accept my sincere apology.
TheHeaths said
05:34 PM Nov 15, 2021
Buzz,
I can only suggest this.
You are welcome to your opinion, and expressing it to seek to educate others to share it.
If you do that, then you must grant others the right to do the same with their opinion, posting as freely as yourself.
If you do post opinions on an open and general forum such as Grey Nomads, unfortunately for you, there will be opposition to your position. That is the beauty of our society and the forum. I am afraid that your current comments seem to suggest you don't want to hear anyone express their opinion if it is not the same as yours, and that opposing opinions are forcing you to consider leaving.
If you want to only discuss this issue with like minded people i would suggest you find a Climate Change Believers Forum and discuss things there, where you will be with like minded people, your sort of people as you put it.
I think that would be the best course of action for you, not because I disagree, or otherwise, with your opinion, but as it appears to stay is only going to create angst for you as I suggest you will never know whether the majority of the 26000 members you mention agree with you or otherwise. Perhaps stay and only discuss travel here, which hopefully would be less stressful for you!
I hope you find some peace and less climate stress whatever you decide to do.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 15th of November 2021 05:36:55 PM
Santa said
06:30 PM Nov 15, 2021
TheHeaths wrote:
Buzz,
I can only suggest this.
You are welcome to your opinion, and expressing it to seek to educate others to share it.
If you do that, then you must grant others the right to do the same with their opinion, posting as freely as yourself.
If you do post opinions on an open and general forum such as Grey Nomads, unfortunately for you, there will be opposition to your position. That is the beauty of our society and the forum. I am afraid that your current comments seem to suggest you don't want to hear anyone express their opinion if it is not the same as yours, and that opposing opinions are forcing you to consider leaving.
If you want to only discuss this issue with like minded people i would suggest you find a Climate Change Believers Forum and discuss things there, where you will be with like minded people, your sort of people as you put it.
I think that would be the best course of action for you, not because I disagree, or otherwise, with your opinion, but as it appears to stay is only going to create angst for you as I suggest you will never know whether the majority of the 26000 members you mention agree with you or otherwise. Perhaps stay and only discuss travel here, which hopefully would be less stressful for you!
I hope you find some peace and less climate stress whatever you decide to do.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 15th of November 2021 05:36:55 PM
Well said Ian.
People must realise that if you offer opinions on controversial issues your going to receive replies from those who disagree with you.
As the old saying goes, if you cant handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
SoloMC said
06:32 PM Nov 15, 2021
So many of the replies here are reflections of what you would hear if you listened to those renowned scientists like Pauline hanson et al.
Im sure one is actually verbatim what the well known scientists Alan Jones also said so itmust be true
Ifeel like the chairman of cop who cried at the results as voted by our world leaders.
It just reinforces the fact that the vast majority of people dont give a rats and wont even contemplate that their entrenched 'beliefs' are wrong
If we did care, WE would do something about it but we wont. We will just do what we have always done and leavecour failures for the following generations to fix
Mike Harding said
07:12 PM Nov 15, 2021
TheHeaths wrote:
Buzz,
I can only suggest this.
You are welcome to your opinion, and expressing it to seek to educate others to share it.
If you do that, then you must grant others the right to do the same with their opinion, posting as freely as yourself.
If you do post opinions on an open and general forum such as Grey Nomads, unfortunately for you, there will be opposition to your position. That is the beauty of our society and the forum. I am afraid that your current comments seem to suggest you don't want to hear anyone express their opinion if it is not the same as yours, and that opposing opinions are forcing you to consider leaving.
If you want to only discuss this issue with like minded people i would suggest you find a Climate Change Believers Forum and discuss things there, where you will be with like minded people, your sort of people as you put it.
I think that would be the best course of action for you, not because I disagree, or otherwise, with your opinion, but as it appears to stay is only going to create angst for you as I suggest you will never know whether the majority of the 26000 members you mention agree with you or otherwise. Perhaps stay and only discuss travel here, which hopefully would be less stressful for you!
I hope you find some peace and less climate stress whatever you decide to do.
I think you put that rather well.
Plain Truth said
07:29 PM Nov 15, 2021
TheHeaths wrote:
Buzz,
I can only suggest this.
You are welcome to your opinion, and expressing it to seek to educate others to share it.
If you do that, then you must grant others the right to do the same with their opinion, posting as freely as yourself.
If you do post opinions on an open and general forum such as Grey Nomads, unfortunately for you, there will be opposition to your position. That is the beauty of our society and the forum. I am afraid that your current comments seem to suggest you don't want to hear anyone express their opinion if it is not the same as yours, and that opposing opinions are forcing you to consider leaving.
If you want to only discuss this issue with like minded people i would suggest you find a Climate Change Believers Forum and discuss things there, where you will be with like minded people, your sort of people as you put it.
I think that would be the best course of action for you, not because I disagree, or otherwise, with your opinion, but as it appears to stay is only going to create angst for you as I suggest you will never know whether the majority of the 26000 members you mention agree with you or otherwise. Perhaps stay and only discuss travel here, which hopefully would be less stressful for you!
I hope you find some peace and less climate stress whatever you decide to do.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 15th of November 2021 05:36:55 PM
Very well said
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:33 AM Nov 16, 2021
dorian wrote:
@Buzz, why do you consider my statements as a personal attack? I am merely stating the obvious, namely that neither you nor I have the necessary scientific qualifications to formulate a valid opinion on this subject. I don't feel demeaned by my ignorance of this subject, and neither should you. If I've underestimated you, and you are in fact a climate scientist, then please accept my sincere apology.
For a start "Your opinion is worth nothing." I find that personal.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Tuesday 16th of November 2021 12:36:32 PM
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:46 AM Nov 16, 2021
Santa wrote:
TheHeaths wrote:
Buzz,
I can only suggest this.
You are welcome to your opinion, and expressing it to seek to educate others to share it.
If you do that, then you must grant others the right to do the same with their opinion, posting as freely as yourself.
If you do post opinions on an open and general forum such as Grey Nomads, unfortunately for you, there will be opposition to your position. That is the beauty of our society and the forum. I am afraid that your current comments seem to suggest you don't want to hear anyone express their opinion if it is not the same as yours, and that opposing opinions are forcing you to consider leaving.
If you want to only discuss this issue with like minded people i would suggest you find a Climate Change Believers Forum and discuss things there, where you will be with like minded people, your sort of people as you put it.
I think that would be the best course of action for you, not because I disagree, or otherwise, with your opinion, but as it appears to stay is only going to create angst for you as I suggest you will never know whether the majority of the 26000 members you mention agree with you or otherwise. Perhaps stay and only discuss travel here, which hopefully would be less stressful for you!
I hope you find some peace and less climate stress whatever you decide to do.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 15th of November 2021 05:36:55 PM
Well said Ian.
People must realise that if you offer opinions on controversial issues your going to receive replies from those who disagree with you.
As the old saying goes, if you cant handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
It's not the different options that the problem. Obviously, everybody is different and healthy, unthreatening discussions are good. It's the way that some express those opinions that's menacing.
Disagreeing replies are acceptable but nowadays, no one deserves to have "the heat" put upon them.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Tuesday 16th of November 2021 11:47:07 AM
dorian said
12:08 PM Nov 16, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
dorian wrote:
@Buzz, why do you consider my statements as a personal attack? I am merely stating the obvious, namely that neither you nor I have the necessary scientific qualifications to formulate a valid opinion on this subject. I don't feel demeaned by my ignorance of this subject, and neither should you. If I've underestimated you, and you are in fact a climate scientist, then please accept my sincere apology.
"Your opinion is worth nothing." I find that personal.
To me, an opinion has value only if the utterer of that opinion is knowledgeable in the subject.
What do you believe is the value of your opinion?
By the way, when I say "your", I'm referring to anyone who hasn't studied or researched climate science. That includes me.
Mike Harding said
01:48 PM Nov 16, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Disagreeing replies are acceptable but nowadays, no one deserves to have "the heat" put upon them.
Do you mean others must not disagree with you too strongly for your liking?
peter67 said
08:07 PM Nov 16, 2021
Too hot in the kitchen?
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:20 PM Nov 17, 2021
dorian wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
dorian wrote:
@Buzz, why do you consider my statements as a personal attack? I am merely stating the obvious, namely that neither you nor I have the necessary scientific qualifications to formulate a valid opinion on this subject. I don't feel demeaned by my ignorance of this subject, and neither should you. If I've underestimated you, and you are in fact a climate scientist, then please accept my sincere apology.
"Your opinion is worth nothing." I find that personal.
To me, an opinion has value only if the utterer of that opinion is knowledgeable in the subject.
What do you believe is the value of your opinion?
By the way, when I say "your", I'm referring to anyone who hasn't studied or researched climate science. That includes me.
Everone is entitled to an opinion but the important thing was that i was NOT putting an opinion forward. You just assumed that I was making some opinion and said that it had no value.
If one looks at, probably 50% of comments on this forum, they are personal opinions by people who aren't experts in the field to which they are commenting, so why, now, all of a sudden, my opinion has no value?
If you don't mean 'you' then say 'one's' or 'none experts'? I suggest you check your comments before you post them, to eliminate any ambiguity.
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:23 PM Nov 17, 2021
Mike Harding wrote:
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Disagreeing replies are acceptable but nowadays, no one deserves to have "the heat" put upon them.
Do you mean others must not disagree with you too strongly for your liking?
No. I mean exactly what it says. It's healthy to have discussions but they shouldn't be personal attacks.
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:24 PM Nov 17, 2021
peter67 wrote:
Too hot in the kitchen?
Meaning?
Santa said
12:36 PM Nov 17, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Disagreeing replies are acceptable but nowadays, no one deserves to have "the heat" put upon them.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Tuesday 16th of November 2021 11:47:07 AM
Some, because of the uninformed nature of their replies definitely deserve"the heat" they receive, others, because of the misinformation they peddle are positively heat seekers.
The appalling results at the COP26 gives me climate stress. Is there no hope? If one reads many of the comments posted on this forum, one would think that the majority of boomers are climate skeptics. That makes me want to leave this forum. It's depressing to think that no one here wants the climate fixed.
Then I read somewhere that the majority of boomers do care about climate change and many, like I, are doing what they can to minimise their carbon footprint. So why does it seem that this forum is full of climate skeptics? Maybe it's just a few people who make the most noise and it only SEEMS like the majority of grey nomads don't care about future generations?
So please, help me decide if the GNs are my type of people by answering, 'yes' or 'no' to these two questions and please don't make this a discussion. It's a poll.
Thank you.
Do you believe in climate change and it's caused by humans?
Yes or no.
Do you believe you should do your best to minimise your carbon footprint?
Yes or no.......
Well, it was a simple request to try and get a poll working but, as usually someone has to force their views so here's a discussion forum for all you wjo just can't help yourself.
The web interface doesn't allow multiple questions and answers so I've had to reduce the two questions into the most important one.
And yes, I did try checkboxes but they dont work on my browser. Blame the developers, not Cindy nor me.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Sunday 14th of November 2021 04:40:17 PM
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Sunday 14th of November 2021 08:59:30 PM
Let me answer my own question. Your opinion is worth absolutely nothing. My opinion is to defer to the collective opinion of the scientific community.
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion but you've missed the point. I'm not pushing an opinion, I'm trying to reduce my climate stress by deciding with whom I should communicate and your criticism doesn't bode well.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 15th of November 2021 11:39:53 AM
Dorian, my take is that when the scientists, that is ALL the scientists agree with proof, on a matter then I will start to listen.
In the meantime I do observe that climate change has been happening since time began, and no I am not billions of years old - just looking at many recorded observations of the scientific world and noticing how some records are suddenly wiped as inaccurate after a group of "new" scientists push a political agender.
No, he calls and asks how much do you have in your bank account, can you afford me.
It doesn't matter how many skeptical scientists there are, your opinion is still worth nothing. Theirs has value, though.
Charlie Teo has many detractors in the medical profession. Does the mere existence of these detractors entitle you to an opinion about his next surgery?
I just looked at the poll and it shows 52% believe in climate change. Maybe there is hope?
However, only 23 out of nearly 26,000 people have voted. Does it just require time for people to respond to a poll or couldn't they be bothered about the most important issue humanity has faced, so far?
Can it be that they are afraid to vote because of the criticism they may get? I've certainly felt the abuse but surely the polls are anonomyous?
Or should people NOT have the surgery because another 'expert' doesn't agree?
That's like saying "I'll not help the burning ship I'm on until everyone agrees that the ship is burning."
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 15th of November 2021 01:50:13 PM
Hey Buzz,
Voting is anonymous so unless one comments, the other members do not know which way you voted.
I really do t think that of the 23 people that did vote, any one of them would not be afraid of the criticism.
This is a public forum and as such each person has and is entitled to his / her own opinion.
If it doesnt fit the result you wanted then you need to just deal with it.
BTW the current percentage indicates only one vote the difference between the two views.
Maybe a session with a megaphone out in a large shopping centre on a pulpit, or wandering about kissing babies may help to sway it to favour your views and agenda.
Thanks Rob,
I thought that voting was anonymous and thanks for clarifying that.
According to Dorian you are wrong, I'm NOT entitled to an opinion.
You can have an opinion as long as you understand its value, which is essentially nothing.
Again, you seem to have misunderstood my purpose. If the poll shows that I'm dealing with mostly like minded people then it's worth my time continuing with the GNs.
The continued attack on me is also a contributing factor to my reasons for considering leaving this forum.
Buzz,
I can only suggest this.
You are welcome to your opinion, and expressing it to seek to educate others to share it.
If you do that, then you must grant others the right to do the same with their opinion, posting as freely as yourself.
If you do post opinions on an open and general forum such as Grey Nomads, unfortunately for you, there will be opposition to your position. That is the beauty of our society and the forum. I am afraid that your current comments seem to suggest you don't want to hear anyone express their opinion if it is not the same as yours, and that opposing opinions are forcing you to consider leaving.
If you want to only discuss this issue with like minded people i would suggest you find a Climate Change Believers Forum and discuss things there, where you will be with like minded people, your sort of people as you put it.
I think that would be the best course of action for you, not because I disagree, or otherwise, with your opinion, but as it appears to stay is only going to create angst for you as I suggest you will never know whether the majority of the 26000 members you mention agree with you or otherwise. Perhaps stay and only discuss travel here, which hopefully would be less stressful for you!
I hope you find some peace and less climate stress whatever you decide to do.
-- Edited by TheHeaths on Monday 15th of November 2021 05:36:55 PM
Well said Ian.
People must realise that if you offer opinions on controversial issues your going to receive replies from those who disagree with you.
As the old saying goes, if you cant handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Im sure one is actually verbatim what the well known scientists Alan Jones also said so itmust be true
Ifeel like the chairman of cop who cried at the results as voted by our world leaders.
It just reinforces the fact that the vast majority of people dont give a rats and wont even contemplate that their entrenched 'beliefs' are wrong
If we did care, WE would do something about it but we wont. We will just do what we have always done and leavecour failures for the following generations to fix
I think you put that rather well.
Very well said
For a start "Your opinion is worth nothing." I find that personal.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Tuesday 16th of November 2021 12:36:32 PM
It's not the different options that the problem. Obviously, everybody is different and healthy, unthreatening discussions are good. It's the way that some express those opinions that's menacing.
Disagreeing replies are acceptable but nowadays, no one deserves to have "the heat" put upon them.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Tuesday 16th of November 2021 11:47:07 AM
To me, an opinion has value only if the utterer of that opinion is knowledgeable in the subject.
What do you believe is the value of your opinion?
By the way, when I say "your", I'm referring to anyone who hasn't studied or researched climate science. That includes me.
Do you mean others must not disagree with you too strongly for your liking?
Everone is entitled to an opinion but the important thing was that i was NOT putting an opinion forward. You just assumed that I was making some opinion and said that it had no value.
If one looks at, probably 50% of comments on this forum, they are personal opinions by people who aren't experts in the field to which they are commenting, so why, now, all of a sudden, my opinion has no value?
If you don't mean 'you' then say 'one's' or 'none experts'? I suggest you check your comments before you post them, to eliminate any ambiguity.
No. I mean exactly what it says. It's healthy to have discussions but they shouldn't be personal attacks.
Meaning?
Some, because of the uninformed nature of their replies definitely deserve "the heat" they receive, others, because of the misinformation they peddle are positively heat seekers.