I'm starting to like Twiggy Forrest. In this TED talk he appears to be trying to solve the plastic waste problem that is killing our oceans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5g9-4fx60A&t=886
Maybe we'd all better send an email to http://noplasticwaste.org ?
Tony Bev said
06:03 PM Mar 2, 2021
I can see some sense on what he said
What I thought he said was, if there is profit (for some people), in collecting and selling plastic waste, then they will collect it, to sell to someone
Going back many years, as a boy I would take empty glass bottles to the shop, as I received money for them
In the last few years, we have saved our empty plastic drinking bottles, and passed them onto others, to claim the 10 cents
Without that 10 cents, all of our plastic drinking water bottles, would have gone into the bin
Peter_n_Margaret said
07:36 PM Mar 2, 2021
In my view, plastic waste is no different from other waste provided it is treated appropriately, which it is not and that is a serious problem. The strategy for all waste and plastic in particular needs to be: 1. Don't create it in the first place. For instance, I find buying drinking water in bottles fundamentally wrong. It is not difficult to have drinking water "on tap" pretty much anywhere and where that is not possible, use a refillable container. Most single use plastic products will be banned in SA over the next few years. Straws, drink stirrers and cutlery are now banned from last Monday 1/3/21. Others will follow.
2. Recycle. Plastic is wonderful to recycle. Many can be used over and over again, especially if sorted into same grades of plastic. Coke now claim that their bottles are made from 100% recycled material. More mixed and contaminated plastics can be used to make fence posts, decking and lots of other highly durable and effective products.
3. Extract the energy. Plastic is mostly made from oil (mostly mineral oil, but sometimes from vegetable oil). The thermal energy that the original oil contained is still there in the plastic when it is too contaminated to recycle again. That energy can be retrieved if the plastic is burned and used to generate electricity and other applications that use heat. There are several of these plastic burning furnaces in Scandinavia, specially built for the job so that pollution is mostly eliminated. Other Euro countries send their plastic waste to them for power generation. There is little justification for plastic waste to go into land fill That is a total waste. Worse to chuck it out into the environment.
Cheers,
Peter
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:27 PM Mar 2, 2021
Peter,
I was shocked to hear that only about 10% of Australia's recyclable plastic is being recycled. One great Australian invention is converting plastic into oil that can be used to fully make plastic (thus fully recycling it) or fuel such as petrol. I'd prefer the oil not to be used to burn because it will contribute CO2 to the atmosphere unless the carbon dioxide is captured and stored.
Why do so many environmental people love to discriminate against the drink I love, filtered water!
If I want to drink a coke or pepsi its OK for me to create plastic bottle waste.
However if I like to have an ice cold filtered water, with no chance of contamination, I'm an environmental vandal. It's so easy say the environmentalists, simply take a plastic bottle with you wherever you go, walk half a mall away from the food court to find a water dispenser, hope the dispenser is working and hasn't been covered with anyone's saliva, and fill up your bottle. Yuck!
If you want to make it inconvenient for filtered water drinkers then make it inconvenient for everyone. Since coke and pepsi etc., come in plastic bottles get rid of all plastic bottles and have all coke and pepsi served on tap so you have to fill up your own container.
With respect to recycling plastic, I admit I always recycle plastic bottles. But I wonder how much is actually being used. Every year you see the same news stories about some council that mixes all the garbage and recycling together and puts it into land fill as no one is actually using the recyclables. As usual it all comes down to cost versus benefit.
oldbloke said
08:50 PM Mar 3, 2021
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
In my view, plastic waste is no different from other waste provided it is treated appropriately, which it is not and that is a serious problem. The strategy for all waste and plastic in particular needs to be: 1. Don't create it in the first place. For instance, I find buying drinking water in bottles fundamentally wrong. It is not difficult to have drinking water "on tap" pretty much anywhere and where that is not possible, use a refillable container. Most single use plastic products will be banned in SA over the next few years. Straws, drink stirrers and cutlery are now banned from last Monday 1/3/21. Others will follow.
2. Recycle. Plastic is wonderful to recycle. Many can be used over and over again, especially if sorted into same grades of plastic. Coke now claim that their bottles are made from 100% recycled material. More mixed and contaminated plastics can be used to make fence posts, decking and lots of other highly durable and effective products.
3. Extract the energy. Plastic is mostly made from oil (mostly mineral oil, but sometimes from vegetable oil). The thermal energy that the original oil contained is still there in the plastic when it is too contaminated to recycle again. That energy can be retrieved if the plastic is burned and used to generate electricity and other applications that use heat. There are several of these plastic burning furnaces in Scandinavia, specially built for the job so that pollution is mostly eliminated. Other Euro countries send their plastic waste to them for power generation. There is little justification for plastic waste to go into land fill That is a total waste. Worse to chuck it out into the environment.
Cheers,
Peter
Hooray.
peter67 said
08:51 PM Mar 3, 2021
I'm all for recycling but it always seems like massive cost and not much benefit, bloody frustrating outcome. In WA our plastic waste was often dumped in landfill while we had an excellent recycler supposedly, and then that recycling facility for our whole state burnt down a while back and not much news since then. You can guess how much good our expensive three bin system is doing now.
Craig1 said
10:56 AM Mar 4, 2021
Reported today that foam packaging for food and the ridiculous amount that the Chinese wrap a fridge etc in will be banned by the Australian Government from sometime 2022
Plain Truth said
08:18 PM Mar 11, 2021
I find buying filtered water in a plastic bottle a waste of money.Just buy a water filter jug and use tap water.
dorian said
05:16 AM Mar 12, 2021
I put all my plastic waste in the garbage, wrapped in a plastic bag which I tie off with a knot. How does any of my waste end up in the oceans and waterways? I don't get it.
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:06 AM Mar 12, 2021
Dorian,
It ends up in landfill, which means that more oil has to be refined to make plastic each time you buy something in plastic. Thus contributing to climate change and pollution. Twiggy's trying to encourage recycling so that only energy is used to make more plastic not energy and oil.
Buzz Lightbulb said
11:12 AM Mar 12, 2021
I do the same as Plain Truth. I buy a plastic bottle of water, or some other drinkable liquid, and use the filleted water to keep refilling out. My current bottle has lasted about three years.
I used to use steel bottles but apparently one has to use those thousands of times to pay off the energy used to make one and I keep losing them. Buying one plastic bottle and reusing it is apparently better for the environment.
oldbloke said
03:12 PM Mar 14, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
I do the same as Plain Truth. I buy a plastic bottle of water, or some other drinkable liquid, and use the filleted water to keep refilling out. My current bottle has lasted about three years.
I used to use steel bottles but apparently one has to use those thousands of times to pay off the energy used to make one and I keep losing them. Buying one plastic bottle and reusing it is apparently better for the environment.
Not too bad an option.
Make it do
Wear it out
Use it up
Or do without.
Then recyle it. Lol
Grandad5 said
09:51 AM Mar 15, 2021
The thing that gets me in this thing is the old "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" thing.
Everyone seems to have forgotten they were supposed to be actioned in that order.
To reduce the amount of plastic, or any other resource, step 1 is to REDUCE the amount needing to be used.
Find an alternative.
If that action doesn't have the desired result, then at least REUSE what you've used more than once.
And reuse it in its original form. Like we used to do with milk and drink bottles.
If all else fails, then, and only then, resort to RECYCLING.
Business seems to have forgotten all about the first two and gone straight to the last resort and then stuffs that up.
Jim
msg said
10:00 AM Mar 15, 2021
Does it really have much effect?
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:42 AM Mar 15, 2021
msg wrote:
Does it really have much effect?
Does what have much effect.
msg said
12:00 PM Mar 15, 2021
reduce, reuse, recycle.
Buzz Lightbulb said
12:50 PM Mar 15, 2021
Surely limiting the amount of resources used each day will help by one, less pollution and two those resources are available for future generations. If we can recycle everything then those resources could be considered "renewable".
Plain Truth said
04:30 PM Mar 22, 2021
The new Super markets are the way to go,we have get rid of wasteful packaging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HDgmo0ylYI
Craig1 said
04:50 PM Mar 22, 2021
PT, there would need to be a significant increase in general hygiene for me.
Buzz Lightbulb said
05:05 PM Mar 22, 2021
I think that general hygiene is getting better due to sars-cov-2. Besides, if you bring your own containers then the hygiene of that container is dependent on you.
I remember it was like this when I was a child. I think brown paper bags were the most common packaging.
Buzz Lightbulb said
05:09 PM Mar 22, 2021
Speaking of hygiene, I saw that there was a "challenge" for people to open up large ice-cream containers at the supermarket, lick the top of the ice-cream, replace the lid and put the ice-cream container back onto the shelf in the supermarket's freezer. In my opinion, those people should be locked up and used to test for the effects of new diseases.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 22nd of March 2021 05:10:30 PM
Plain Truth said
06:15 PM Mar 22, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
Speaking of hygiene, I saw that there was a "challenge" for people to open up large ice-cream containers at the supermarket, lick the top of the ice-cream, replace the lid and put the ice-cream container back onto the shelf in the supermarket's freezer. In my opinion, those people should be locked up and used to test for the effects of new diseases.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 22nd of March 2021 05:10:30 PM
You are right,this is the problem,we are our own worst enemy.This is why we end up with some much tamper proof packaging .So what is the answer.
Buzz Lightbulb said
07:44 PM Mar 22, 2021
The video that was circulated showed staff processing the products. Maybe there could be more assistants helping out and also watching for moronic behaviour.
I did notice that the Texas authorities think that they are about to arrest those people doing the ice-cream challenge. Maybe cut their tounges off. (just joking. Kind of)
Blues Man said
09:02 AM Mar 23, 2021
Buzz Lightbulb wrote:
The video that was circulated showed staff processing the products. Maybe there could be more assistants helping out and also watching for moronic behaviour.
I did notice that the Texas authorities think that they are about to arrest those people doing the ice-cream challenge. Maybe cut their tounges off. (just joking. Kind of)
Maybe cut their tounges off. (just joking. Kind of)
Don't joke ,maybe that's the answer .Then they won't do it again. It will serve as a lesson for everyone else.
Buzz Lightbulb said
09:21 AM Mar 23, 2021
Now I'm going to be harsh.
There are too many people in the world.
I see no reason why idiots like the ice-cream lickers should exist.
Conclusion?
bgt said
09:53 AM Mar 23, 2021
I'll repeat what I've said more than once before. Plastic isn't the problem. It's people. People throw, drop whatever the plastic. Come down hard on anyone littering. Anyone who has driven any amount of miles in the USA will have come across folks on the side of the road picking up trash. They are often minor offenders that been sentenced to pick up trash for dropping trash. So don't fine them. Put them to work picking up what they are a part of.
Oh dear I forgot. OHS. Insurance. Hot sun. Can't make me do it. Stiff you dropped it now pick some up. As other folks drive by they may think twice about winding down the window to chuck out the Maccas bag.
dabbler said
10:39 AM Mar 23, 2021
Microplastics are a far bigger issue than any visible plastic (macroplastic) rubbish we can see. The microplastics in the environment and in the food-chain are still on the rise because too many people think plastics aren't evil. Reduce our need for plastics in everyday life and we reduce unnecessary energy consumption, reduce visible litter and reduce invisible microplastics. Whether we dispose of plastics in the recommended manner or not, there quite simply is too much plastic being produced. If you doubt this, Google microplastics. It's niave to think plastics are okay if recycled or reused. Question everything you purchase or use and consider alternatives that don't use plastics.
Buzz Lightbulb said
10:51 AM Mar 23, 2021
Dabbler :agreed.
Bgt: there are a lot of problems with the world, mostly due to humans. We have, as usual, diverged from the original post.
If we can control the population (and I feel that people like the ice-cream lickers are the first to go) then many other problems will be solved. I, by starting this discussion, was hoping to suggest some hope in just one of the many problems that humans have created.
Maybe we should start another thread about how to control the ice-cream lickers and their like or what to do about the poor excuses for human beings? Alas, I don't feel that the Gray Nomads will be able to fix EVERYTHING in the world.
bgt said
11:29 AM Mar 23, 2021
dabbler research shows that producing a paper bag consumes four times more energy than it does to produce a plastic bag. Here's the first of many reports when you Google a comparison of energy required to produce either. www.bbc.com/news/business-47027792
So who do we believe? It's the human element that is the 'litter' problem. Address that issue and we solve many other issues. It's like fixing the gate before the horse has bolted rather than spending time figuring out how to catch the horse once it's out.
I'm starting to like Twiggy Forrest. In this TED talk he appears to be trying to solve the plastic waste problem that is killing our oceans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5g9-4fx60A&t=886
Maybe we'd all better send an email to http://noplasticwaste.org ?
What I thought he said was, if there is profit (for some people), in collecting and selling plastic waste, then they will collect it, to sell to someone
Going back many years, as a boy I would take empty glass bottles to the shop, as I received money for them
In the last few years, we have saved our empty plastic drinking bottles, and passed them onto others, to claim the 10 cents
Without that 10 cents, all of our plastic drinking water bottles, would have gone into the bin
In my view, plastic waste is no different from other waste provided it is treated appropriately, which it is not and that is a serious problem.
The strategy for all waste and plastic in particular needs to be:
1. Don't create it in the first place. For instance, I find buying drinking water in bottles fundamentally wrong. It is not difficult to have drinking water "on tap" pretty much anywhere and where that is not possible, use a refillable container. Most single use plastic products will be banned in SA over the next few years. Straws, drink stirrers and cutlery are now banned from last Monday 1/3/21. Others will follow.
2. Recycle. Plastic is wonderful to recycle. Many can be used over and over again, especially if sorted into same grades of plastic. Coke now claim that their bottles are made from 100% recycled material. More mixed and contaminated plastics can be used to make fence posts, decking and lots of other highly durable and effective products.
3. Extract the energy. Plastic is mostly made from oil (mostly mineral oil, but sometimes from vegetable oil). The thermal energy that the original oil contained is still there in the plastic when it is too contaminated to recycle again. That energy can be retrieved if the plastic is burned and used to generate electricity and other applications that use heat. There are several of these plastic burning furnaces in Scandinavia, specially built for the job so that pollution is mostly eliminated. Other Euro countries send their plastic waste to them for power generation. There is little justification for plastic waste to go into land fill That is a total waste. Worse to chuck it out into the environment.
Cheers,
Peter
I was shocked to hear that only about 10% of Australia's recyclable plastic is being recycled. One great Australian invention is converting plastic into oil that can be used to fully make plastic (thus fully recycling it) or fuel such as petrol. I'd prefer the oil not to be used to burn because it will contribute CO2 to the atmosphere unless the carbon dioxide is captured and stored.
Here's the ABC 7:30 report :
www.youtube.com/watch
Why do so many environmental people love to discriminate against the drink I love, filtered water!
If I want to drink a coke or pepsi its OK for me to create plastic bottle waste.
However if I like to have an ice cold filtered water, with no chance of contamination, I'm an environmental vandal. It's so easy say the environmentalists, simply take a plastic bottle with you wherever you go, walk half a mall away from the food court to find a water dispenser, hope the dispenser is working and hasn't been covered with anyone's saliva, and fill up your bottle. Yuck!
If you want to make it inconvenient for filtered water drinkers then make it inconvenient for everyone. Since coke and pepsi etc., come in plastic bottles get rid of all plastic bottles and have all coke and pepsi served on tap so you have to fill up your own container.
With respect to recycling plastic, I admit I always recycle plastic bottles. But I wonder how much is actually being used. Every year you see the same news stories about some council that mixes all the garbage and recycling together and puts it into land fill as no one is actually using the recyclables. As usual it all comes down to cost versus benefit.
Hooray.
I find buying filtered water in a plastic bottle a waste of money.Just buy a water filter jug and use tap water.
It ends up in landfill, which means that more oil has to be refined to make plastic each time you buy something in plastic. Thus contributing to climate change and pollution. Twiggy's trying to encourage recycling so that only energy is used to make more plastic not energy and oil.
I used to use steel bottles but apparently one has to use those thousands of times to pay off the energy used to make one and I keep losing them. Buying one plastic bottle and reusing it is apparently better for the environment.
Not too bad an option.
Make it do
Wear it out
Use it up
Or do without.
Then recyle it. Lol
Everyone seems to have forgotten they were supposed to be actioned in that order.
To reduce the amount of plastic, or any other resource, step 1 is to REDUCE the amount needing to be used.
Find an alternative.
If that action doesn't have the desired result, then at least REUSE what you've used more than once.
And reuse it in its original form. Like we used to do with milk and drink bottles.
If all else fails, then, and only then, resort to RECYCLING.
Business seems to have forgotten all about the first two and gone straight to the last resort and then stuffs that up.
Jim
Does what have much effect.
The new Super markets are the way to go,we have get rid of wasteful packaging
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HDgmo0ylYI
I remember it was like this when I was a child. I think brown paper bags were the most common packaging.
Speaking of hygiene, I saw that there was a "challenge" for people to open up large ice-cream containers at the supermarket, lick the top of the ice-cream, replace the lid and put the ice-cream container back onto the shelf in the supermarket's freezer. In my opinion, those people should be locked up and used to test for the effects of new diseases.
-- Edited by Buzz Lightbulb on Monday 22nd of March 2021 05:10:30 PM
You are right,this is the problem,we are our own worst enemy.This is why we end up with some much tamper proof packaging .So what is the answer.
I did notice that the Texas authorities think that they are about to arrest those people doing the ice-cream challenge. Maybe cut their tounges off. (just joking. Kind of)
Maybe cut their tounges off. (just joking. Kind of)
Don't joke ,maybe that's the answer .Then they won't do it again. It will serve as a lesson for everyone else.
There are too many people in the world.
I see no reason why idiots like the ice-cream lickers should exist.
Conclusion?
Oh dear I forgot. OHS. Insurance. Hot sun. Can't make me do it. Stiff you dropped it now pick some up. As other folks drive by they may think twice about winding down the window to chuck out the Maccas bag.
Bgt: there are a lot of problems with the world, mostly due to humans. We have, as usual, diverged from the original post.
If we can control the population (and I feel that people like the ice-cream lickers are the first to go) then many other problems will be solved. I, by starting this discussion, was hoping to suggest some hope in just one of the many problems that humans have created.
Maybe we should start another thread about how to control the ice-cream lickers and their like or what to do about the poor excuses for human beings? Alas, I don't feel that the Gray Nomads will be able to fix EVERYTHING in the world.
And here's another site that contradicts the first site. www.huffpost.com/entry/paper-or-plastic-a-look-a_n_111547
So who do we believe? It's the human element that is the 'litter' problem. Address that issue and we solve many other issues. It's like fixing the gate before the horse has bolted rather than spending time figuring out how to catch the horse once it's out.