"Yuri, 47, from Hobart, lives with schizophrenia and has trained as a bartender and a cleaner but has only ever managed to find unskilled work."
Whenarewethere said
08:26 AM Dec 9, 2020
Because they are not wearing "blue collars" while working!
TheHeaths said
08:39 AM Dec 9, 2020
Certainly I would consider some of the specialised cleanup operations to be skilled.
Bar operations in larger places, with food, betting, mixing ****tails and other services, as well as expanding legal requirements on staff would also tend to suggest a higher level of skill and understanding than just pulling beers!
I wouldnt be judging skill levels of any jobs unless I have done the current equivalents.
Trevor 57 said
08:55 AM Dec 9, 2020
I am a TAFE teacher, unskilled generally refers to non-certificated people, e.g. no Certificate II, III, IV, Diploma in anything
-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 08:55:47 AM
-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 08:56:32 AM
Whenarewethere said
09:09 AM Dec 9, 2020
I have done 3d work, has taken years to learn & I am only at the basic level. It would take 10 years to be good enough in a wide range of 3d areas, & run my own home 3d render farm, what a challenge that is. Let's not get on to the cost.
But there is no PhD!
dogbox said
09:33 AM Dec 9, 2020
what is a " home 3d render farm"? please explain
hufnpuf said
09:57 AM Dec 9, 2020
TheHeaths wrote:
than just pulling beers!
Pulling a beer needs some practice, you can't just pull that handle and have it turn out right, you have to actually do it in a certain way not to end up with a cup full of froth.
dorian said
10:33 AM Dec 9, 2020
When I was young, my parents used to threaten that if I didn't study hard, I would end up as a broom driver. Now it seems that I need to go to school for that.
Whenarewethere said
10:35 AM Dec 9, 2020
dogbox wrote:
what is a " home 3d render farm"? please explain
A render farm is a pile of computer that spit out frames for a movie. A James Bond movie will have used thousands of computers for all the digital work.
Or you can get a lot of computers working on a single image. The longest time for me was about 48 house to render (digitally process) one image, an A3 300 dpi file.
A frightening amount of electricity is used to make movies.
It takes just as long today as resolution has gone up a lot. 4k movies, double it for stereo imaging.
A one minute movie, 30 frames a second, so 1800 frames, took my 9 CPUs three weeks to make. 2400 watt continuously 24 hours a day! A decade ago.
Are ladies of the night unskilled? No certificate that I know off for them. But I'm told on good advice that they have special skills!!!
Mike Harding said
01:16 PM Dec 9, 2020
An unskilled job is something the majority of people can be taught to do within a few days.
Skills take time to acquire and even people with natural skills such as in music or sport take much time and effort to hone those skills to a professional level.
Unfortunately we now seem to live in a society which believes everyone "has to feel valued" so unskilled jobs have been wrongly elevated and captioned as skilled. We don't have rat catchers we have rodent control officers.
There is nothing wrong or substandard about doing an unskilled job as we discovered many years ago in the UK when the dustman went on strike, very quickly we learned how important dustman actually were to the running of society and the prevention of disease.
A person's value should not be determined by the job they do; a shop assistant has no less intrinsic or moral worth than a surgeon or classical musician. Indeed, my life experience indicates people working in unskilled areas are often more prepared to take a risk in helping others than "Professionals" - they have less to lose and are usually less up themselves I think.
We should call a spade a spade: making coffee in a restaurant is not a skilled job, being a vet is.
Mike Harding said
01:18 PM Dec 9, 2020
bgt wrote:
Are ladies of the night unskilled?
I hasten to make clear I am not speaking from experience (honestly!) but I understand some are *very* skilled :)
Whenarewethere said
01:26 PM Dec 9, 2020
You just do not know what other things you may get from a skilled one, unskilled for me!
Mike Harding said
02:05 PM Dec 9, 2020
Whenarewethere wrote:
You just do not know what other things you may get from a skilled one, unskilled for me!
From my understanding of the medical requirements placed upon licenced prostitutes in Australia one would have far less chance of infection from them than with some random woman one picked up in a bar.
Whenarewethere said
02:25 PM Dec 9, 2020
Dr Jayant Patel of Bundaberg Base Hospital was "skilled" worker!
Possum3 said
02:31 PM Dec 9, 2020
Whenarewethere wrote:
Dr Jayant Patel of Bundaberg Base Hospital was "skilled" worker!
No he wasn't. That's why he was sacked.
bgt said
03:43 PM Dec 9, 2020
OK would some define "skilled" as opposed to "incompetent".
Derek Barnes said
03:59 PM Dec 9, 2020
Would you describe a "politician" as a skilled job or an unskilled job. You don't need any degrees to be a politician! I would call that an unskilled job. Usually the amount of pay is dependent on whether the job is a skilled job or an unskilled job, unskilled jobs being paid less. Why then are politicians paid so much?
Whenarewethere said
04:09 PM Dec 9, 2020
Derek Barnes wrote:
Would you describe a "politician" as a skilled job or an unskilled job. You don't need any degrees to be a politician!
A bit like a used car salesman!
Dougwe said
04:58 PM Dec 9, 2020
IMO I think all jobs have some form of skill required. Obviously some have less than others. I have and never will think otherwise. At least people working are just that, working and not bludging on Govemint handouts and I know a few. Not due to CV19 either. Long before that was invented.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 04:59:45 PM
Phillipn said
06:33 PM Dec 9, 2020
Possum3 wrote:
Whenarewethere wrote:
Dr Jayant Patel of Bundaberg Base Hospital was "skilled" worker!
No he wasn't. That's why he was sacked.
Patel should have been a slaughterman in abattoir, and he would have stuffed that up.
Mike Harding said
07:36 PM Dec 9, 2020
Derek Barnes wrote:
You don't need any degrees to be a politician!
And you don't need any degrees to vote for one either.
Radar said
09:37 PM Dec 9, 2020
One day, my cranky teacher caught me staring out the class room window, slapping his feather duster on deck and yelling "you wont get anywhere staring out there". Well I proved him wrong in a big way, from the day I turned 17, I sat in a corner office with an awesome view going everywhere in this beautiful country for near on 48 years.
As transport driver we are deemed unskilled.
yobarr said
12:15 PM Dec 10, 2020
Radar wrote:
One day, my cranky teacher caught me staring out the class room window, slapping his feather duster on deck and yelling "you wont get anywhere staring out there". Well I proved him wrong in a big way, from the day I turned 17, I sat in a corner office with an awesome view going everywhere in this beautiful country for near on 48 years.As transport driver we are deemed unskilled.
Hi Ralph...only those with little understanding of the demands faced by long-distance truckies would suggest that they are 'unskilled'. Truckies make up less than 1% of our population,but without them,Australia stops.Simply having an HC or MC licence does not necessarily make you skilled,but the fine art of loading your truck safely and legally,getting your weights right,ensuring your vehicle is mechanically safe,and coping with driving among motorists with little apparent understanding of the road rules,and no idea what is happening around them,certainly does.I defy anybody to tell me that an unskilled person could safely and competently drive a truck,such as this,for 14 hours/day.Transport drivers unskilled? Don't think so.Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 10th of December 2020 02:31:17 PM
I think that Trevor 57, has hit the nail on the head
In the modern era, a skilled person is someone who has had a bit of training, and has a certificate to present to the employer
In my era, when we left school, we received a piece of paper, (handwritten) about your academic achievements (if any)
Plus a very short note, on how your headmaster saw you, or words to that effect
Cupie said
11:04 AM Dec 14, 2020
Would it take a skilled person to identify the vehicles in Yobarr's B&W photo?
This unskilled old fart's try -
Bedford Truck, Ford V8 Pilot pulling the van, Austin A40 & lastly a Chev of some sort. (the A40 guess is the only one that I have a modicom of confidence in)
DMaxer said
11:23 AM Dec 14, 2020
I think the car that Doug is driving and towing the caravan may not be a Pilot. We had a Pilot when I was a little kid and I am sure the windscreen had more of a downward curve in it. There were not many models of them and they were replaced by the Consul and the Zephyr. I think the Pilot were a British car made by Ford. I am not sure but if I was having a guess I reckon it might be a Wolseley.
I agree with the Bedford and the Austin and perhaps the last car is either a Chev, Pontiac or Buick.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Monday 14th of December 2020 11:24:48 AM
yobarr said
12:08 PM Dec 14, 2020
DMaxer wrote:
I think the car that Doug is driving and towing the caravan may not be a Pilot. We had a Pilot when I was a little kid and I am sure the windscreen had more of a downward curve in it. There were not many models of them and they were replaced by the Consul and the Zephyr. I think the Pilot were a British car made by Ford. I am not sure but if I was having a guess I reckon it might be a Wolseley.
I agree with the Bedford and the Austin and perhaps the last car is either a Chev, Pontiac or Buick.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Monday 14th of December 2020 11:24:48 AM
Yeah,I'm with you and Cupie in 3 out of 4.The truck looks like 'K' model Bedford,the second car is an A40 Devon,and the last car could be a 1950 Chev. (or Pontiac or Buick,as you suggest).The first car I initially thought was a Humber Snipe,but your suggestion of a Wolseley is a lot closer to the mark.Perhaps others can help? Cheers
Cupie said
12:41 PM Dec 14, 2020
Here's a Ford V8 Pilot of the series that I remembered.
Perhaps a slightly different windscreen & I can't see the over riders on the bumper but a lot of similarities like the spots & side lights on the mudguards along with the bonnet emblem. The B&W photo is not clear enough to reveal the hole in the grill to take the crank handle & the number plate on my pic obscures the bottom of the grill extending below the bumper.
I think that I'll go with the Pontiac for the last one.
"The FordPilot Model E71A is a medium-sized car that was built by Ford UK from August 1947 to 1951. It was effectively replaced in 1951 with the launch of Ford UK's Zephyr Six and Consul models, though V8Pilots were still offered for sale, being gradually withdrawn during that year. In its production run 22,155 cars were made".
KJB said
12:43 PM Dec 14, 2020
The truck is more than likely an International K series (there was a similar Diamond T) , car towing the van is English maybe Wolsley/ Singer /Standard then an Austin A40 (looks like a convertible version) and last car a bit hard to make out - could even be a Vanguard.
I always thought that cleaning and bartending were unskilled jobs. Times have changed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-08/disability-royal-commission-schizophrenia-and-finding-work/12961166
"Yuri, 47, from Hobart, lives with schizophrenia and has trained as a bartender and a cleaner but has only ever managed to find unskilled work."
Because they are not wearing "blue collars" while working!
Bar operations in larger places, with food, betting, mixing ****tails and other services, as well as expanding legal requirements on staff would also tend to suggest a higher level of skill and understanding than just pulling beers!
I wouldnt be judging skill levels of any jobs unless I have done the current equivalents.
I am a TAFE teacher, unskilled generally refers to non-certificated people, e.g. no Certificate II, III, IV, Diploma in anything
-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 08:55:47 AM
-- Edited by Trevor 57 on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 08:56:32 AM
I have done 3d work, has taken years to learn & I am only at the basic level. It would take 10 years to be good enough in a wide range of 3d areas, & run my own home 3d render farm, what a challenge that is. Let's not get on to the cost.
But there is no PhD!
Pulling a beer needs some practice, you can't just pull that handle and have it turn out right, you have to actually do it in a certain way not to end up with a cup full of froth.
A render farm is a pile of computer that spit out frames for a movie. A James Bond movie will have used thousands of computers for all the digital work.
Or you can get a lot of computers working on a single image. The longest time for me was about 48 house to render (digitally process) one image, an A3 300 dpi file.
A frightening amount of electricity is used to make movies.
It takes just as long today as resolution has gone up a lot. 4k movies, double it for stereo imaging.
A one minute movie, 30 frames a second, so 1800 frames, took my 9 CPUs three weeks to make. 2400 watt continuously 24 hours a day! A decade ago.
An unskilled job is something the majority of people can be taught to
do within a few days.
Skills take time to acquire and even people with natural skills such
as in music or sport take much time and effort to hone those skills
to a professional level.
Unfortunately we now seem to live in a society which believes everyone
"has to feel valued" so unskilled jobs have been wrongly elevated and
captioned as skilled. We don't have rat catchers we have rodent
control officers.
There is nothing wrong or substandard about doing an unskilled job as
we discovered many years ago in the UK when the dustman went on
strike, very quickly we learned how important dustman actually were
to the running of society and the prevention of disease.
A person's value should not be determined by the job they do; a shop
assistant has no less intrinsic or moral worth than a surgeon or
classical musician. Indeed, my life experience indicates people
working in unskilled areas are often more prepared to take a risk in
helping others than "Professionals" - they have less to lose and are
usually less up themselves I think.
We should call a spade a spade: making coffee in a restaurant is not
a skilled job, being a vet is.
I hasten to make clear I am not speaking from experience (honestly!) but I understand some are *very* skilled :)
You just do not know what other things you may get from a skilled one, unskilled for me!
From my understanding of the medical requirements placed upon licenced prostitutes in Australia one would have far less chance of infection from them than with some random woman one picked up in a bar.
Dr Jayant Patel of Bundaberg Base Hospital was "skilled" worker!
No he wasn't. That's why he was sacked.
Would you describe a "politician" as a skilled job or an unskilled job. You don't need any degrees to be a politician! I would call that an unskilled job. Usually the amount of pay is dependent on whether the job is a skilled job or an unskilled job, unskilled jobs being paid less. Why then are politicians paid so much?
A bit like a used car salesman!
IMO I think all jobs have some form of skill required. Obviously some have less than others. I have and never will think otherwise. At least people working are just that, working and not bludging on Govemint handouts and I know a few. Not due to CV19 either. Long before that was invented.
Keep Safe on the roads and out there.
-- Edited by Dougwe on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 04:59:45 PM
Patel should have been a slaughterman in abattoir, and he would have stuffed that up.
And you don't need any degrees to vote for one either.
One day, my cranky teacher caught me staring out the class room window, slapping his feather duster on deck and yelling "you wont get anywhere staring out there". Well I proved him wrong in a big way, from the day I turned 17, I sat in a corner office with an awesome view going everywhere in this beautiful country for near on 48 years.
As transport driver we are deemed unskilled.
Hi Ralph...only those with little understanding of the demands faced by long-distance truckies would suggest that they are 'unskilled'. Truckies make up less than 1% of our population,but without them,Australia stops.Simply having an HC or MC licence does not necessarily make you skilled,but the fine art of loading your truck safely and legally,getting your weights right,ensuring your vehicle is mechanically safe,and coping with driving among motorists with little apparent understanding of the road rules,and no idea what is happening around them,certainly does.I defy anybody to tell me that an unskilled person could safely and competently drive a truck,such as this,for 14 hours/day.Transport drivers unskilled? Don't think so.Cheers.
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 10th of December 2020 02:31:17 PM
In the modern era, a skilled person is someone who has had a bit of training, and has a certificate to present to the employer
In my era, when we left school, we received a piece of paper, (handwritten) about your academic achievements (if any)
Plus a very short note, on how your headmaster saw you, or words to that effect
Would it take a skilled person to identify the vehicles in Yobarr's B&W photo?
This unskilled old fart's try -
Bedford Truck, Ford V8 Pilot pulling the van, Austin A40 & lastly a Chev of some sort. (the A40 guess is the only one that I have a modicom of confidence in)
I think the car that Doug is driving and towing the caravan may not be a Pilot. We had a Pilot when I was a little kid and I am sure the windscreen had more of a downward curve in it. There were not many models of them and they were replaced by the Consul and the Zephyr. I think the Pilot were a British car made by Ford. I am not sure but if I was having a guess I reckon it might be a Wolseley.
I agree with the Bedford and the Austin and perhaps the last car is either a Chev, Pontiac or Buick.
-- Edited by DMaxer on Monday 14th of December 2020 11:24:48 AM
Yeah,I'm with you and Cupie in 3 out of 4.The truck looks like 'K' model Bedford,the second car is an A40 Devon,and the last car could be a 1950 Chev. (or Pontiac or Buick,as you suggest).The first car I initially thought was a Humber Snipe,but your suggestion of a Wolseley is a lot closer to the mark.Perhaps others can help? Cheers
Here's a Ford V8 Pilot of the series that I remembered.
Perhaps a slightly different windscreen & I can't see the over riders on the bumper but a lot of similarities like the spots & side lights on the mudguards along with the bonnet emblem. The B&W photo is not clear enough to reveal the hole in the grill to take the crank handle & the number plate on my pic obscures the bottom of the grill extending below the bumper.
I think that I'll go with the Pontiac for the last one.
"The Ford Pilot Model E71A is a medium-sized car that was built by Ford UK from August 1947 to 1951. It was effectively replaced in 1951 with the launch of Ford UK's Zephyr Six and Consul models, though V8 Pilots were still offered for sale, being gradually withdrawn during that year. In its production run 22,155 cars were made".
The truck is more than likely an International K series (there was a similar Diamond T) , car towing the van is English maybe Wolsley/ Singer /Standard then an Austin A40 (looks like a convertible version) and last car a bit hard to make out - could even be a Vanguard.