As I understood it today the NSW Coroner has recommended , 1= test illegal drug pills at music festivals. 2= Nasty police should minimise presence at said festivals. 3= even nastier dogs should not attend said festivals.
I own a moderate kw landcruiser,( lucky me). I don't drive above any legal speedlimits ( well only once). I would like to test this out for an excessive speed. Will the nast policeman vacate a sage stretch of Hume Hwy while I do this exercise please? I know that a tyre could blowout, i know that ther could be a pot hole somewhere ahead in my preferred 2-3km bit of road, I could come over a hill and be blinded by the sun, I could get into a drag race with the recalled lambogini. etc.
But being a usually responsible member of society, I try to obey the laws. If I dont like any of them, sometimes I try to get my local MP onside for a change.
What am I missing here?
dabbler said
11:37 PM Oct 15, 2019
Craig, yes you have totally missed the point. The examples you give are in a different realm entirely. The recommendation is to minimise KNOWN risks to those who undertake already risky activities, legal or otherwise. The presence of police and sniffer dogs have been linked overdoses in the past when patrons choke down everything they carry before they enter the gates rather then dump contraband. Your examples doesn't minimise your own risks, increases the risks to other road users and can be achieved legally without resorting hitting the public roads. No, I'm not an illicit drug user, yes I know a few.
Craig1 said
09:28 AM Oct 16, 2019
Gladys Strikes Back. She says no way to Coroner. Good on her
Possum3 said
09:51 AM Oct 16, 2019
If someone goes to a "Venue" carrying 10 pills, it is my belief that the person only has that amount of pills so he can on-sell them i.e. they intend to deal illicit substances.
If they see a dog and swallow them all, the World is less one Dealer.
If carrying one pill and they have a deleterious event occur by swallowing said pill, when they see a dog, they are just hastening the inevitable that would have occurred on the inside.
The presence of dogs is crucial to stop Dealers peddling their poison.
dabbler said
10:19 AM Oct 16, 2019
Your both missing the point. Pill testing will help protect your loved ones, who are going to use illicit drugs at these types of events. Yes, YOUR loved ones. It's common for one person in a party of 4 or 5 people, that one carry contraband and the other stay "clean". They don't care or understand your definition a dealer, they are just carrying fur a friend but they will down every pill if they think they will be detected. Talk to your kids or your goods openly without judgement and they will confirm everything I've typed here. Even the coppers will tell you the same. Rethink your priorities, not your values, (I'm not suggesting that at all). Catch the bad guy or save a life ?
DMaxer said
10:37 AM Oct 16, 2019
If there is a visible police presence together with sniffer dogs, is it not the case that people may well choose not to bring illicit drugs into the venue. If all patrons are required to enter through designated entrances where there is a dog or two and a couple of police, would not recreational users choose either not to attend or not to bring illicit substances with them.
It may well be the case that the only ones who are then carrying these illicit substances into these venues are in fact the dealers.
I do not subscribe to the theory that people will swallow the pills meant for the whole group upon seeing a sniffer dog or a police officer. They walk towards the entrance and there they are. They could easily turn around and walk the other way and get rid of the pills. Because one person out of thousands may do this, do we just cater for that person.
I have represented people on drug related charges for more than 40 years and I think I have a little insight as to how they operate. I think if the authorities don't enforce laws then the consequences are dire. It is not just the users' that need to be considered, it is also the general community.
Mike Harding said
10:52 AM Oct 16, 2019
A bloke in a pub recently offered to sell me a 9mm semi automatic handgun and I was tempted but rather worried, because of a dent in the barrel, that it may be unsafe and explode perhaps killing me and/or others - do you think the government would test it, without cost, for me?
In regard to dangerous drugs, be they alcohol, tobacco, cannabis, ice, speed et al... Darwin rules, I no longer have any sympathy.
dabbler said
10:59 AM Oct 16, 2019
Dmaxer, read reports on known incidents. The scenario I described has been documented many times. My mid 20s daughter (not a drug user but a drinker) tells me it's the norm for one in a group to carry. Police and sniffer dogs target people who walk away, again well known and police publically state this happens, just like RBT stakeouts. MDMA users often come prepared not expecting to buy inside. MDMA isn't instantaneous so they could easily take them on the way but most expect to wait before using. All efforts have not stopped dealers and not stopped illicit users but pill testing would tell users whether it's MDMA or Ketamine. Again, ask yourself, do you want punish people or lesson the risk to a risk taker. MDMA use was reported by almost 1 in 8 people last yr (Fed govt report). It's very real and detection doesn't work.
outlaw40 said
11:00 AM Oct 16, 2019
Set up a free testing site , arrest every one of the buggers that turns up . Its ILLEGAL why should they get a free pass . Increase the police presence and catch them . Its ILLEGAL........
dabbler said
11:01 AM Oct 16, 2019
Mike you are an idiot. Regardless of belief, this isn't a topic to be trivialised.
dabbler said
11:02 AM Oct 16, 2019
I give up. Read some Fed GOVERNMENT reports. It isn't black and white.
Mike Harding said
11:12 AM Oct 16, 2019
dabbler wrote:
Mike you are an idiot. Regardless of belief, this isn't a topic to be trivialised.
Try to stay civil dabbler.
You missed my point: I simply no longer care what happens to people who use drugs, *they* make a choice to take something which they *know* will harm them and in the case of illegal drugs they have *no idea* what they are made from - that is stupidity plain and simple.
MH - regular drinker and ex smoker.
Kebbin said
11:19 AM Oct 16, 2019
Dabbler under your thinking why not extend that to drug driving, night clubs, down the beach etc etc as they may very well swallow the illicit substance to avoid prosecution. Indeed why not just legalise every drug, imagine the carnage then.
Doesn't wash with me, these people think that labelling something as recreational then it is a given to use. This morning my neighbour had his morning fix, I know what marijuana smells like and this stuff was acrid and not marijuana,10 minutes after he was behind the wheel driving, now that's the mentality we are dealing with.
Whenarewethere said
11:26 AM Oct 16, 2019
Government is simply distracting us from real issues like 3000 dieing each year from coal dust & plenty more from silicosis. Plus the 10s of thousands in hospital for secondary illnesses due to unaffordable dental health.
But a few dead people from illegal pills makes a convenient distraction.
bgt said
11:53 AM Oct 16, 2019
It's illegal. Period. I'm with Mike. Can I bring my illegal handgun to the same venue and have it checked without consequences? Until the laws change they are turning a blind eye to the law. If someone takes a pill after it has been tested, drives home and has an accident that kills someone who here is going to tell the relatives that "it's OK because the pill was tested"?
Greg 1 said
12:05 PM Oct 16, 2019
Agree with the bulk of comments. If you are stupid enough to take drugs in the first place then you deserve what the consequences may be. There is enough information and attention around on the subject to make an informed decision.
So some DH swallows the lot rather than get caught? Just deepens the gene pool slightly as far as I'm concerned. Have absolutely no sympathy.
They all need to take responsibility for their own actions.
dogbox said
01:04 PM Oct 16, 2019
how many of the deaths were cased by "toxic" drugs ?
as far as I am aware none they where caused by overdoses or bad reactions/dehydration ect
would pill testing have saved any of these lives ?
i'm of the thoughts that pill testing may cause more problems with people thinking that there is no risk and encourage more people to use/experiment with pills of unknown ingredients thinking they have been tested SAFE !
lock out laws reduced some of the problems in syd now they want to change them again because some nite club are not doing as well as they use to
maybe they should think about closing some of these drug fests down problem solved (we can live dodo land )
illegal drugs cause more problems than you can shake a stick at, why would you want to encourage people to use more? most of the addicts never intended to become addicts they where(in most cases) just kids looking to have a good time
Relax-n said
02:04 PM Oct 16, 2019
Are we becoming too mamby pamby !!
Letting people know that their illegal drugs are safe to take .....
Are the unsafe drugs confiscated ?
Then comes the issue that if someone does overdose, who is at fault for letting the illegal drugs in and stating they were safe !!
Sorry, illegal is illegal
increase dogs and police, increase ambulances
Maybe it is time, harsh as it is, that people learn to take responsibility for themselves
blaze said
02:08 PM Oct 16, 2019
pill testing has been proven to be beneficial in other countries, so why not here. I have always talked very open with my kids about drugs etc, I am a smoker, non of my kids do or have ever, they all have a social drink but my oldest son has a few more at times but is only making up for lost time, didn't have a drink until he was 25 yo. So I reckon that dope and a few of the party pills should be decimalized. I was young once
cheers
blaze
Rob Driver said
02:10 PM Oct 16, 2019
Unfortunately the real reason for going soft on these crimes is because we have no room in our jails.
If these actions are illegal then the perpetrators should be treated as criminals.
While we go soft on these people there is no deterrent.
Stop spending our taxes on wasted causes and start building hospitals, jails, roads, schools and transport infrastructure in OUR country.
Regards
Rob
Izabarack said
04:18 PM Oct 16, 2019
Bottles of grog are mandated to display the percentage of the drug in the mix. I don't see pill testing as any different. Legal or illegal is irrelevant. In the same way you can make a choice to drink too much alcohol, pill testing establishes knowledge about how much of the drug you are going to ingest. Gladys needs to listen to the experts and, more so, the public.
Iza
Mike Harding said
04:48 PM Oct 16, 2019
Izabarack wrote:
Bottles of grog are mandated to display the percentage of the drug in the mix. I don't see pill testing as any different. Legal or illegal is irrelevant
So you're OK with the government testing that 9mm semi auto handgun for me then?
blaze said
05:11 PM Oct 16, 2019
Mike Harding wrote:
Izabarack wrote:
Bottles of grog are mandated to display the percentage of the drug in the mix. I don't see pill testing as any different. Legal or illegal is irrelevant
So you're OK with the government testing that 9mm semi auto handgun for me then?
no
Tony LEE said
05:28 PM Oct 16, 2019
The logistics of providing pill testing for say 5000 patrons of a 30,000 patron festival are daunting to say the least.
Buyer beware and accept responsibility for your own (totally voluntary) actions.
LLD said
07:22 PM Oct 16, 2019
Craig1. Agree with your opening address.
Many years ago when drug injecting rooms were first set aside for speed addicts, I wrote to several newspapers and said I was a speed addict and needed a bit of roadway set aside for my addiction. It got published several times.
Mike Harding said
07:55 PM Oct 16, 2019
blaze wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
Izabarack wrote:
Bottles of grog are mandated to display the percentage of the drug in the mix. I don't see pill testing as any different. Legal or illegal is irrelevant
So you're OK with the government testing that 9mm semi auto handgun for me then?
no
Why not?
blaze said
08:53 PM Oct 16, 2019
Mike Harding wrote:
blaze wrote:
Mike Harding wrote:
Izabarack wrote:
Bottles of grog are mandated to display the percentage of the drug in the mix. I don't see pill testing as any different. Legal or illegal is irrelevant
So you're OK with the government testing that 9mm semi auto handgun for me then?
no
Why not?
nearly all pill testing is done by not for profit mobs not gov but a bit of funding would save thousands latter
cheers
blaze
dogbox said
09:07 PM Oct 16, 2019
Izabarack wrote:
Bottles of grog are mandated to display the percentage of the drug in the mix. I don't see pill testing as any different. Legal or illegal is irrelevant. In the same way you can make a choice to drink too much alcohol, pill testing establishes knowledge about how much of the drug you are going to ingest. Gladys needs to listen to the experts and, more so, the public.
Iza
the pills are not over the counter purchases they are made in back yard labs by people with no interest other than money using what ever they can get there hands on! that is why the pill testing is in question wouldn't need pill testing if the event organisers supplied the pills from an approved supplier. some homemade alcohol can be deadly or send you blind
Rob Driver said
09:00 AM Oct 17, 2019
Izabarack wrote:
Bottles of grog are mandated to display the percentage of the drug in the mix. I don't see pill testing as any different. Legal or illegal is irrelevant. In the same way you can make a choice to drink too much alcohol, pill testing establishes knowledge about how much of the drug you are going to ingest. Gladys needs to listen to the experts and, more so, the public.
Iza
You might then want to convince the bikies and other crims to start printing labels for their product.
We can all imagine that the illegal manufacturers would be placing a warning or advice on ingestion of a product that is made in a bikies bathroom or back shed.
The people who manufacture these drugs are criminals and should be hunted down and treated as such.
Parental guidance and supervision might be a better preventative than to expect the testing and labelling of an illegal substance.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Thursday 17th of October 2019 09:01:01 AM
Santa said
09:33 AM Oct 17, 2019
Here's another viewpoint!
"Federal MP Andrew Laming says NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian is right to ignore a coroner's recommendation for pill testing, saying state governments should instead force music festival organisers to provide high-tech medical facilities on site."
Certainly has merit, would save lives and force festival organisers to foot the bill instead of having the tax payer having to cover everything, i.e. policing, ambulance, hospitalisation.
What makes me smile is these problems originate from people of the same age group who claim they want to save the planet from global warming and climate change, but don't have sufficient insight or maturity to understand the risks associated with drug taking at these events, guess you cant put an old head on young shoulders.
Charles Darwin got it right, very much a case of survival of the fittest, both physically and mentally.
As I understood it today the NSW Coroner has recommended , 1= test illegal drug pills at music festivals. 2= Nasty police should minimise presence at said festivals. 3= even nastier dogs should not attend said festivals.
I own a moderate kw landcruiser,( lucky me). I don't drive above any legal speedlimits ( well only once). I would like to test this out for an excessive speed. Will the nast policeman vacate a sage stretch of Hume Hwy while I do this exercise please? I know that a tyre could blowout, i know that ther could be a pot hole somewhere ahead in my preferred 2-3km bit of road, I could come over a hill and be blinded by the sun, I could get into a drag race with the recalled lambogini. etc.
But being a usually responsible member of society, I try to obey the laws. If I dont like any of them, sometimes I try to get my local MP onside for a change.
What am I missing here?
If they see a dog and swallow them all, the World is less one Dealer.
If carrying one pill and they have a deleterious event occur by swallowing said pill, when they see a dog, they are just hastening the inevitable that would have occurred on the inside.
The presence of dogs is crucial to stop Dealers peddling their poison.
If there is a visible police presence together with sniffer dogs, is it not the case that people may well choose not to bring illicit drugs into the venue. If all patrons are required to enter through designated entrances where there is a dog or two and a couple of police, would not recreational users choose either not to attend or not to bring illicit substances with them.
It may well be the case that the only ones who are then carrying these illicit substances into these venues are in fact the dealers.
I do not subscribe to the theory that people will swallow the pills meant for the whole group upon seeing a sniffer dog or a police officer. They walk towards the entrance and there they are. They could easily turn around and walk the other way and get rid of the pills. Because one person out of thousands may do this, do we just cater for that person.
I have represented people on drug related charges for more than 40 years and I think I have a little insight as to how they operate. I think if the authorities don't enforce laws then the consequences are dire. It is not just the users' that need to be considered, it is also the general community.
A bloke in a pub recently offered to sell me a 9mm semi automatic handgun and I was tempted but rather worried, because of a dent in the barrel, that it may be unsafe and explode perhaps killing me and/or others - do you think the government would test it, without cost, for me?
In regard to dangerous drugs, be they alcohol, tobacco, cannabis, ice, speed et al... Darwin rules, I no longer have any sympathy.
Try to stay civil dabbler.
You missed my point: I simply no longer care what happens to people who use drugs, *they* make a choice to take something which they *know* will harm them and in the case of illegal drugs they have *no idea* what they are made from - that is stupidity plain and simple.
MH - regular drinker and ex smoker.
Doesn't wash with me, these people think that labelling something as recreational then it is a given to use. This morning my neighbour had his morning fix, I know what marijuana smells like and this stuff was acrid and not marijuana,10 minutes after he was behind the wheel driving, now that's the mentality we are dealing with.
Government is simply distracting us from real issues like 3000 dieing each year from coal dust & plenty more from silicosis. Plus the 10s of thousands in hospital for secondary illnesses due to unaffordable dental health.
But a few dead people from illegal pills makes a convenient distraction.
as far as I am aware none they where caused by overdoses or bad reactions/dehydration ect
would pill testing have saved any of these lives ?
i'm of the thoughts that pill testing may cause more problems with people thinking that there is no risk and encourage more people to use/experiment with pills of unknown ingredients thinking they have been tested SAFE !
lock out laws reduced some of the problems in syd now they want to change them again because some nite club are not doing as well as they use to
maybe they should think about closing some of these drug fests down problem solved (we can live dodo land )
illegal drugs cause more problems than you can shake a stick at, why would you want to encourage people to use more? most of the addicts never intended to become addicts they where(in most cases) just kids looking to have a good time
Are we becoming too mamby pamby !!
Letting people know that their illegal drugs are safe to take .....
Are the unsafe drugs confiscated ?
Then comes the issue that if someone does overdose, who is at fault for letting the illegal drugs in and stating they were safe !!
Sorry, illegal is illegal
increase dogs and police, increase ambulances
Maybe it is time, harsh as it is, that people learn to take responsibility for themselves
cheers
blaze
If these actions are illegal then the perpetrators should be treated as criminals.
While we go soft on these people there is no deterrent.
Stop spending our taxes on wasted causes and start building hospitals, jails, roads, schools and transport infrastructure in OUR country.
Regards
Rob
Iza
So you're OK with the government testing that 9mm semi auto handgun for me then?
no
Many years ago when drug injecting rooms were first set aside for speed addicts, I wrote to several newspapers and said I was a speed addict and needed a bit of roadway set aside for my addiction. It got published several times.
Why not?
nearly all pill testing is done by not for profit mobs not gov but a bit of funding would save thousands latter
cheers
blaze
the pills are not over the counter purchases they are made in back yard labs by people with no interest other than money using what ever they can get there hands on! that is why the pill testing is in question wouldn't need pill testing if the event organisers supplied the pills from an approved supplier.
some homemade alcohol can be deadly or send you blind
You might then want to convince the bikies and other crims to start printing labels for their product.
We can all imagine that the illegal manufacturers would be placing a warning or advice on ingestion of a product that is made in a bikies bathroom or back shed.
The people who manufacture these drugs are criminals and should be hunted down and treated as such.
Parental guidance and supervision might be a better preventative than to expect the testing and labelling of an illegal substance.
Regards
Rob
-- Edited by bentaxlebabe on Thursday 17th of October 2019 09:01:01 AM
Here's another viewpoint!
"Federal MP Andrew Laming says NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian is right to ignore a coroner's recommendation for pill testing, saying state governments should instead force music festival organisers to provide high-tech medical facilities on site."
Certainly has merit, would save lives and force festival organisers to foot the bill instead of having the tax payer having to cover everything, i.e. policing, ambulance, hospitalisation.
What makes me smile is these problems originate from people of the same age group who claim they want to save the planet from global warming and climate change, but don't have sufficient insight or maturity to understand the risks associated with drug taking at these events, guess you cant put an old head on young shoulders.
Charles Darwin got it right, very much a case of survival of the fittest, both physically and mentally.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/no-one-dies-in-intensive-care-federal-mp-calls-for-medical-facilities-at-festivals-20191016-p5315l.html