Hi all, we're looking at getting into Motorhoming, but budget wise we are limited to refurbished ex rental units in the 50-70k $$ range. I'm looking for advice from those who have "been there, done that" on what is the best, most reliable engine options to go with. From what I have found so far, there are Fiat, Renault, Iveco and Mercedes as the main chassis options. I am guessing that any of these diesel units would cost an insane amount of money to repair/rebuild if a blow-up occurs, and as the units we will be considering will have done in the 200-350k range, I am decidedly nervous about making the wrong decision. I've had a couple of blokes recommend Mercedes to me as a good reliable option, but I'm betting maintenance and parts costs would be a colossal ripoff. Anyway, any advice anyone can offer will be most appreciated. Thank you in advance, Shane
markf said
02:33 PM Oct 6, 2019
A mate of mine drives a Mercedes work van which has done about a squillion miles. Maintenance, if done by a dealer, is expensive but not as bad as you'd think. Parts are about on a par with Toyota, Nissan, et al. Shopping around online can reduce the price of genuine parts markedly.
When I got our Discovery 2 I was repeatedly told that maintenance and parts would bankrupt me. Not so, a good independent mechanic and buying parts online makes it very affordable.
shane49 said
03:13 PM Oct 6, 2019
Thanks Mark
blaze said
03:37 PM Oct 6, 2019
have a look at the Toyota coaster, mid 90's. Very basic mechanical and parts more available than some others.
cheers
blaze
Knight said
04:31 PM Oct 6, 2019
Rear wheel drive preferably.
bluecat said
05:16 PM Oct 6, 2019
Take a look at a Ford Transit based motorhome / campervan 2007 onwards
bgt said
06:05 PM Oct 6, 2019
Fiat has about 80% of the European motorhome market. So they must be doing something right. Keep in mind that motorhomes do only a fraction of the work that the commercial users do. And motorhomes are driven by owners who tend to look after their investment. Like everything there are Friday specials and just plain bad luck with every make. Look for an independant mechanic that you can trust and all should be well with any make.
bgt said
06:07 PM Oct 6, 2019
Also keep in mind that it is easier to fix a motor or gear box than fix up shonky walls or roof in a motorhome.
Peter_n_Margaret said
06:13 PM Oct 6, 2019
bgt wrote:
Fiat has about 80% of the European motorhome market. So they must be doing something right.
The Fiat platform is very attractive to commercial motorhome builders because there is no rear mechanicals behind the cab and that means the floor is flat (and cheap) and lower.
Fiat do NOT make the rear chassis behind the cab for these vehicles which are made by other companies. They can be as long as the motorhome builder wants.
I have seen them spinning the front wheels on damp flat grass and unable to go around an uphill corner on wet bitumen.
Cheers,
Peter
Yuglamron said
07:27 PM Oct 6, 2019
With Fiat Ducato you have to remember what Peter-N-Margaret posted. They import the cab over engine and that's it. Behind that it's whatever the builder decides to use or build. One thing to remember is position of the exhaust, I have seen many of them just at the rear of the front wheels under an opening window. Check your self, totally illegal but it saves the builder from adding to the exhaust system.
Why are they so popular in Europe? Basically cost. Subsidised by the EU to prop up the manufacturing base in Italy.
Personally I wouldn't touch one with someone else's Bargepole. I would go for the Merc or transit provided it has a good service history,
PeterInSa said
07:40 PM Oct 6, 2019
Re (Fiat do NOT make the rear chassis behind the cab for these vehicles which are made by other companies)
For this reason I suggest you check the rear chassis to ensure that there is adequate rust protection, because I have seen bad rust on a relatively new motorhome, and its very hard to derust nooks and crannies after the fact.
I would also ensure that the chassis goes right to the end of the motorhome if you intend installing a towbar, if one is not already in situ. Came across one owner who wanted to tow a small 4x4 behind, and it was going to cost another $10K to extend the chassis to enable a towbar to be fitted. His decision to sell the mh and buy another.
I think Fiat Ducato's are the most popular Campervans and Motorhomes in OZ, new, in my opinion, they can be around $10K cheaper than Mercedes Benz Sprinters for similar/same layout which makes for good/cost benefits. I have a Sprinter Bias. Australia has a very supportive Sprinter Forum.
And agree with ( Like everything there are Friday specials and just plain bad luck with every make. Look for an independant mechanic that you can trust)
Would also read the item below on Buying a Motorhome from the Caravan Council
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Sunday 6th of October 2019 07:48:28 PM
bgt said
09:01 PM Oct 6, 2019
Keep in mind that Fiat aren't responsible for what the motorhome builder does. The issue with spinning the front wheels is not Fiats problem. It's poor design, ie weight distribution, by the motorhome manufacturer. I have owned 3 rear wheel drive motorhomes and spun the wheels on all of them.
Likewise the short exhaust. It's a result of supplying a cab only unit for the manufacturers to build on. And how do they pass inspection for registration if it's illegal?
I'm sure that most of the urban myths about all motorhomes are started by Chinese whisperers.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:34 PM Oct 6, 2019
Theres some nice Mazda units out there ? Maybe LR/ MR licence ? I prefer Jap motors and rear drive when it comes to long term durability and traction . In most cases listen to motor on cold start or check blowby or fumes out of oil filler while idling ?
Yuglamron said
09:50 PM Oct 6, 2019
An awful lot of stuff gets passed even if Illegal because in their wisdom the relevant industries were deregulated.
Why has the Action against Jayco by the ACCC, been kept so quiet when there are lots of people adversely affected by the companies actions? Are the Courts working for the People of Australia or do they consider the people don't count.
There are so many instances that vehicles are on the road illegally and nothing is done.
The latest ads on the TV are spruiking that there are 20 thousand cars with airbags that are a critical danger to the occupants and by definition other road users. We were told that these cars are now Unroadworthy. Why are they still on the road if they are Unroadworthy. Surely illegal under present laws.
Aus-Kiwi said
10:22 PM Oct 6, 2019
They used an explosive to inflate bag . The company that made them
Have long gone broke . I had mine replaced on my Subaru. They contacted me . Its been on 60 min etc . Trouble is most DONT know that their vehicle is fitted with them !! Like driving around with shot gun behind wheel . The Fiat or FWD assemblies are basically front wheel from cars with light transmission . Not totally engineered for hauling motorhome weight . Very expensive to fix ., Often waiting for parts to arrive from
Overseas !!
Knight said
11:09 AM Oct 7, 2019
Rear wheel drive can be made to spin under certain circumstances but front wheel drive is much more likely to lose traction.
Which is why NSW Police HWP cars are rear wheel drive: were Commodore and falcon, now Chrysler and BMW.
The best of all is RWD with Limited Slip Differential.
-- Edited by Knight on Monday 7th of October 2019 11:09:48 AM
Aus-Kiwi said
11:41 AM Oct 7, 2019
Keep in mind who supplies and owns Jeep . If you bag out the Jeep vehicles ? Should be the SAME here !
bgt said
11:49 AM Oct 7, 2019
I can't see the logic being used about front wheel drives spinning wheels. They have the engine weight over the wheels unlike rear wheel drives. Seems that many manufacturers have got it wrong by building front wheel drive vehicles!! :)
Geeco said
02:35 PM Oct 7, 2019
I would suggest your first decision is to ascertain the internal layout that suits your needs best.You need also to consider where you are going to drive it, on the bitumen or down a dirt road, Then I would research what models are available locally with the layout you have chosen in your price range. I would be more concerned with the condition of the habitation area than the engine or truck brand.
I went against all the advice freely handed out on various forums and purchased a front driver with a UK manufactured back end. Interestingly none of the dire predictions turned into reality. After 5 years and 70,00klms I am still happy with the purchase and will buy another of the same spec when ready. I have not had any mechanical issues and the only problems in the habitation area have been with the flyscreen door & window flyscreens that are the same euro brand used by a number of the local builders.
All designs offer advantages and like most things in life motorhomes are always a compromise. EG If you want a flat floor with a body low to the ground for good handling then front wheel drive is for you. If on the other hand you want a bigger vehicle with a good towing capacity then a rear wheel drive vehicle is probably best,
Re engines in my experience there is no such thing as a cheap motor so possibly a vehicle with the lowest kms might be the best option regardless of brand.
Hope this helps,
Knight said
04:36 PM Oct 7, 2019
bgt wrote:
I can't see the logic being used about front wheel drives spinning wheels. They have the engine weight over the wheels unlike rear wheel drives. Seems that many manufacturers have got it wrong by building front wheel drive vehicles!! :)
Reasons to choose rear-wheel drive
So is it simply a win-win situation for everyone involved with motorhomes built on front-wheel-drive vans, then? No, not quite!
You get more traction with rear-wheel drive. Why is a lack of traction in front-wheel-drive motorhomes a big issue? When you accelerate in any vehicle there is a transfer of weight to the rear. If you have rear-wheel drive this is advantageous, as it puts greater load on the driven wheels, generating more grip. If your vehicle has front-wheel drive, however, that same weight transfer takes weight off the front driving wheels, reducing traction. This is why front-wheel-drive vans can struggle when driven off wet grass.
Repairs cost less with rear-wheel-drive 'vans. Because a front-wheel-drive vehicle has the engine, gearbox and final drive all inside the engine bay, major work such as replacing a clutch can be much more involved. In a rear-drive set-up you remove the propshaft, unbolt the gearbox and lower it out from the engine; you then have access to the clutch. On a front-drive set-up you need to partially remove at least one side of the front suspension, and on a lot of vehicles you have to at least loosen (if not completely remove) the front subframe to take the gearbox out. A fair bit of the front bodywork often needs removing, too. As an example, Autodata quotes 5.4 hours for clutch replacement in a 2006, 2.0 Ducato, but only 3.4 hours for the same job on a Mercedes Sprinter.
Tony Bev said
12:07 AM Oct 8, 2019
I only have experience with two motorhomes
My own Fiat Ducato, and a Ford Transit belonging to a brother
The Ford Transit is, in my opinion, far superior to the Fiat Ducato
My brother does not seem to have any problems, obtaining parts for his Ford
The Fiat service centres, are very few, and very far between
Going across the top of Australia, I have not seen any, between Perth and Brisbane
Peter_n_Margaret said
08:02 AM Oct 8, 2019
bgt wrote:
I can't see the logic being used about front wheel drives spinning wheels. They have the engine weight over the wheels unlike rear wheel drives. Seems that many manufacturers have got it wrong by building front wheel drive vehicles!! :)
We are discussing motorhomes here, not cars and most of the weight in a motorhome is at the rear, particularly those with longer wheel bases or longer rear overhangs, and even dual rear wheels because the rear weight exceeds that appropriate to single wheels.
What is OK for a car, is not OK for a motorhome.
Cheers,
Peter
Santa said
09:57 AM Oct 8, 2019
Tony Bev wrote:
I only have experience with two motorhomes
My own Fiat Ducato, and a Ford Transit belonging to a brother
The Ford Transit is, in my opinion, far superior to the Fiat Ducato
My brother does not seem to have any problems, obtaining parts for his Ford
The Fiat service centres, are very few, and very far between Going across the top of Australia, I have not seen any, between Perth and Brisbane
Not in a position to comment on the Fiat Tony, however we have a 2007 Transit, very reliable, never a problem with parts or service Australia wide (unless we are in a remote area) like all vehicles parts for it are expensive.
bgt said
11:46 AM Oct 8, 2019
I guess we need to separate motorhomes from van conversions. Two different animals. The motorhome is compromised due to the fact that manufacturers add overhang and weight. Add to that users adding more weight. The van conversion is nothing more than a loaded commercial unit.
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:04 PM Oct 8, 2019
A fully loaded front wheel drive van has exactly the same problems due to more weight on the rear than on the driving wheels.
Cheers,
Peter
bgt said
12:36 PM Oct 8, 2019
Peter you have missed my point. Motorhome manufacturers are compounding any issues by adding/transferring weight to the rear wheels.
Peter_n_Margaret said
12:54 PM Oct 8, 2019
bgt wrote:
Peter you have missed my point. Motorhome manufacturers are compounding any issues by adding/transferring weight to the rear wheels.
No I did not miss the point.
Vans may or may not be better than motorhomes, but they are still lousy in this regard.
Case in point.. https://www.goauto.com.au/car-reviews/fiat/ducato/3-0-lwb-med-roof/2014-06-17/39664.html#weight_and_capacities
Front axle capacity 2100kgs, rear axle capacity 2400kg. but GVM is 4005kg, so it is almost certain that the rear lazy axle will be more highly loaded than the front drive.
Cheers,
Peter
bgt said
02:16 PM Oct 8, 2019
OK Peter I concede. I guess you know more than the Fiat engineers and thousands of customers.
PeterInSa said
05:38 PM Oct 8, 2019
Agree with many points raised above, My priorities would be:
Vehicle Chassis...... some vehicles have more breakdowns than others and camping in the yard of an outback garage waiting for a fix can be......
Layout....... most ex rental units have a similar layout, lounge at the rear that can be made up into a Double bed, gives greater living space during the day, or sleep over the cab (not for me).
Payload........Ex rentals could be built for durability, sturdy doors and furniture, non rentals generally have lighter materials more costly to make but provides more payload, and you will probably carry more stuff than holiday makers say in Tassie or NZ hiring a rental. Came across a fellow mainlander RV'er in Tassie who jokenly said he could only 1/2 fill his diesel tank and water so he could bring his partner with him.( He owned his motorhome) So check the payload figure.
and lastly as mentioned above also
Compromise.......Both you and partner need to accept the compromises. ( Have come across a CMCA member at a rally who was on his 3rd Motorhome in 5 years, SWMBO'ed did not like the compromises ) To me a 4x4 and Caravan provides more options and less compromises.
Peter
Zameel said
11:09 AM Oct 10, 2019
Hi Shane... just thought I'd touch base with you.... my husband and I have just upgraded as we wanted something a bit bigger so we can start taking our grandkids along with us.... we have our replaced unit for sale on Gumtree atm... not pushing a sale as your price rang indicates that you might be looking at a larger unit than what we have.. but our VW LWB 35 is a magic unit..... was very reliable.. so much so that my girlfriend and I have done 2 trips together...Daintree and Darwin and the National Parks... has crimsafe on all sliding windows so freecamped most of the time... very easy to drive and very maneuverable.... just a suggestion...Marilyn
Hi all, we're looking at getting into Motorhoming, but budget wise we are limited to refurbished ex rental units in the 50-70k $$ range. I'm looking for advice from those who have "been there, done that" on what is the best, most reliable engine options to go with. From what I have found so far, there are Fiat, Renault, Iveco and Mercedes as the main chassis options. I am guessing that any of these diesel units would cost an insane amount of money to repair/rebuild if a blow-up occurs, and as the units we will be considering will have done in the 200-350k range, I am decidedly nervous about making the wrong decision. I've had a couple of blokes recommend Mercedes to me as a good reliable option, but I'm betting maintenance and parts costs would be a colossal ripoff. Anyway, any advice anyone can offer will be most appreciated. Thank you in advance, Shane
A mate of mine drives a Mercedes work van which has done about a squillion miles. Maintenance, if done by a dealer, is expensive but not as bad as you'd think. Parts are about on a par with Toyota, Nissan, et al. Shopping around online can reduce the price of genuine parts markedly.
When I got our Discovery 2 I was repeatedly told that maintenance and parts would bankrupt me. Not so, a good independent mechanic and buying parts online makes it very affordable.
Thanks Mark
cheers
blaze
The Fiat platform is very attractive to commercial motorhome builders because there is no rear mechanicals behind the cab and that means the floor is flat (and cheap) and lower.
Fiat do NOT make the rear chassis behind the cab for these vehicles which are made by other companies. They can be as long as the motorhome builder wants.
I have seen them spinning the front wheels on damp flat grass and unable to go around an uphill corner on wet bitumen.
Cheers,
Peter
With Fiat Ducato you have to remember what Peter-N-Margaret posted. They import the cab over engine and that's it. Behind that it's whatever the builder decides to use or build. One thing to remember is position of the exhaust, I have seen many of them just at the rear of the front wheels under an opening window. Check your self, totally illegal but it saves the builder from adding to the exhaust system.
Why are they so popular in Europe? Basically cost. Subsidised by the EU to prop up the manufacturing base in Italy.
Personally I wouldn't touch one with someone else's Bargepole. I would go for the Merc or transit provided it has a good service history,
Re (Fiat do NOT make the rear chassis behind the cab for these vehicles which are made by other companies)
For this reason I suggest you check the rear chassis to ensure that there is adequate rust protection, because I have seen bad rust on a relatively new motorhome, and its very hard to derust nooks and crannies after the fact.
I would also ensure that the chassis goes right to the end of the motorhome if you intend installing a towbar, if one is not already in situ. Came across one owner who wanted to tow a small 4x4 behind, and it was going to cost another $10K to extend the chassis to enable a towbar to be fitted. His decision to sell the mh and buy another.
I think Fiat Ducato's are the most popular Campervans and Motorhomes in OZ, new, in my opinion, they can be around $10K cheaper than Mercedes Benz Sprinters for similar/same layout which makes for good/cost benefits. I have a Sprinter Bias. Australia has a very supportive Sprinter Forum.
And agree with ( Like everything there are Friday specials and just plain bad luck with every make. Look for an independant mechanic that you can trust)
Would also read the item below on Buying a Motorhome from the Caravan Council
https://www.caravancouncil.com.au/motorhome
Peter
-- Edited by PeterInSa on Sunday 6th of October 2019 07:48:28 PM
An awful lot of stuff gets passed even if Illegal because in their wisdom the relevant industries were deregulated.
Why has the Action against Jayco by the ACCC, been kept so quiet when there are lots of people adversely affected by the companies actions? Are the Courts working for the People of Australia or do they consider the people don't count.
There are so many instances that vehicles are on the road illegally and nothing is done.
The latest ads on the TV are spruiking that there are 20 thousand cars with airbags that are a critical danger to the occupants and by definition other road users. We were told that these cars are now Unroadworthy. Why are they still on the road if they are Unroadworthy. Surely illegal under present laws.
Have long gone broke . I had mine replaced on my Subaru. They contacted me . Its been on 60 min etc . Trouble is most DONT know that their vehicle is fitted with them !! Like driving around with shot gun behind wheel . The Fiat or FWD assemblies are basically front wheel from cars with light transmission . Not totally engineered for hauling motorhome weight . Very expensive to fix ., Often waiting for parts to arrive from
Overseas !!
Rear wheel drive can be made to spin under certain circumstances but front wheel drive is much more likely to lose traction.
Which is why NSW Police HWP cars are rear wheel drive: were Commodore and falcon, now Chrysler and BMW.
The best of all is RWD with Limited Slip Differential.
-- Edited by Knight on Monday 7th of October 2019 11:09:48 AM
I would suggest your first decision is to ascertain the internal layout that suits your needs best.You need also to consider where you are going to drive it, on the bitumen or down a dirt road, Then I would research what models are available locally with the layout you have chosen in your price range. I would be more concerned with the condition of the habitation area than the engine or truck brand.
I went against all the advice freely handed out on various forums and purchased a front driver with a UK manufactured back end. Interestingly none of the dire predictions turned into reality. After 5 years and 70,00klms I am still happy with the purchase and will buy another of the same spec when ready. I have not had any mechanical issues and the only problems in the habitation area have been with the flyscreen door & window flyscreens that are the same euro brand used by a number of the local builders.
All designs offer advantages and like most things in life motorhomes are always a compromise. EG If you want a flat floor with a body low to the ground for good handling then front wheel drive is for you. If on the other hand you want a bigger vehicle with a good towing capacity then a rear wheel drive vehicle is probably best,
Re engines in my experience there is no such thing as a cheap motor so possibly a vehicle with the lowest kms might be the best option regardless of brand.
Hope this helps,
Reasons to choose rear-wheel drive
So is it simply a win-win situation for everyone involved with motorhomes built on front-wheel-drive vans, then? No, not quite!
My own Fiat Ducato, and a Ford Transit belonging to a brother
The Ford Transit is, in my opinion, far superior to the Fiat Ducato
My brother does not seem to have any problems, obtaining parts for his Ford
The Fiat service centres, are very few, and very far between
Going across the top of Australia, I have not seen any, between Perth and Brisbane
We are discussing motorhomes here, not cars and most of the weight in a motorhome is at the rear, particularly those with longer wheel bases or longer rear overhangs, and even dual rear wheels because the rear weight exceeds that appropriate to single wheels.
What is OK for a car, is not OK for a motorhome.
Cheers,
Peter
Not in a position to comment on the Fiat Tony, however we have a 2007 Transit, very reliable, never a problem with parts or service Australia wide (unless we are in a remote area) like all vehicles parts for it are expensive.
Cheers,
Peter
No I did not miss the point.
Vans may or may not be better than motorhomes, but they are still lousy in this regard.
Case in point.. https://www.goauto.com.au/car-reviews/fiat/ducato/3-0-lwb-med-roof/2014-06-17/39664.html#weight_and_capacities
Front axle capacity 2100kgs, rear axle capacity 2400kg. but GVM is 4005kg, so it is almost certain that the rear lazy axle will be more highly loaded than the front drive.
Cheers,
Peter
OK Peter I concede. I guess you know more than the Fiat engineers and thousands of customers.
Vehicle Chassis...... some vehicles have more breakdowns than others and camping in the yard of an outback garage waiting for a fix can be......
Layout....... most ex rental units have a similar layout, lounge at the rear that can be made up into a Double bed, gives greater living space during the day, or sleep over the cab (not for me).
Payload........Ex rentals could be built for durability, sturdy doors and furniture, non rentals generally have lighter materials more costly to make but provides more payload, and you will probably carry more stuff than holiday makers say in Tassie or NZ hiring a rental. Came across a fellow mainlander RV'er in Tassie who jokenly said he could only 1/2 fill his diesel tank and water so he could bring his partner with him.( He owned his motorhome) So check the payload figure.
and lastly as mentioned above also
Compromise.......Both you and partner need to accept the compromises. ( Have come across a CMCA member at a rally who was on his 3rd Motorhome in 5 years, SWMBO'ed did not like the compromises ) To me a 4x4 and Caravan provides more options and less compromises.
Peter