How cheap can prices get, where are the corners cut ?
iana said
12:02 PM Jul 10, 2019
Just reading where a person on here brought a diesel heater for $185, not criticizing the purchase at all, just amazes me that all those components can be made and put together, then sold as a kit, including mark ups for profit for this much.
Remembering that this is essentially a firebox and turbine under the bed or similar. Also if something should burn out capable of pumping carbon monoxide into the van. Its all beyond Belief :)
daffyfrancis said
01:13 PM Jul 10, 2019
iana wrote:
Just reading where a person on here brought a diesel heater for $185, not criticizing the purchase at all, just amazes me that all those components can be made and put together, then sold as a kit, including mark ups for profit for this much.
Remembering that this is essentially a firebox and turbine under the bed or similar. Also if something should burn out capable of pumping carbon monoxide into the van. Its all beyond Belief :)
Dare I say that it is also beyond Belief that their or other expensive brands of heaters are 7- 15 times safer or better
David
The Travelling Dillberries said
02:17 PM Jul 10, 2019
Yes beyond belief Iana, what people will risk for a so called bargain.
I have spent some time on the Diesel heater Facebook site, looking at the furnaces with holes in them (straight out of the box), reading the problems that are discussed daily, looking at pictures of the huge pile of discarded chinese heaters, etc etc.
I was in Tassie at Gordon when a guy came in, got chatting. His job for tomorrow was to replace his chinese heater again (3rd time), He gets them replaced under warranty??? Said he can change them now very quickly!! He carries 2 spare glow plugs with him.
No value or safety in any of it. Get what you pay for.
(i have a gas one).
Cheers.
-- Edited by The Travelling Dillberries on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 02:17:57 PM
yobarr said
04:06 PM Jul 10, 2019
Could I point out that there is no such thing as a Cheap Price.....the price costs nothing.It is the goods (or service) that are cheap or expensive...NOT the price.The price can be high,low,or in between,but the price COSTS NOTHING.My Diesel heater (air and water)cost $2000,but,as Chris says,you get what you pay for.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:09:20 PM
Umpie1 said
04:20 PM Jul 10, 2019
yobarr wrote:
Could I point out that there is no such thing as a Cheap Price.....the price costs nothing.It is the goods (or service) that are cheap or expensive...NOT the price.The price can be high,low,or in between,but the price COSTS NOTHING.My Diesel heater (air and water)cost $2000,but,as Chris says,you get what you pay for.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:09:20 PM
I am interested in the comment that "price costs nothing". Unfortunately when you buy something you have to part with $$'s unless the item has been given to you. In every purchase there is a cost, your time and the exchange of consideration.
Magnarc said
04:28 PM Jul 10, 2019
Gas heating.
No extra tank.
Instant heat.
No glow plugs.
No smell (upon startup)
Virtually no maintenance.
No cleaning.
Very quiet.
Gas, no brainer!
Just sayin!.
-- Edited by Magnarc on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:37:42 PM
yobarr said
04:53 PM Jul 10, 2019
Umpie1 wrote:
yobarr wrote:
Could I point out that there is no such thing as a Cheap Price.....the price costs nothing.It is the goods (or service) that are cheap or expensive...NOT the price.The price can be high,low,or in between,but the price COSTS NOTHING.My Diesel heater (air and water)cost $2000,but,as Chris says,you get what you pay for.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:09:20 PM
I am interested in the comment that "price costs nothing". Unfortunately when you buy something you have to part with $$'s unless the item has been given to you. In every purchase there is a cost, your time and the exchange of consideration.
Hi Geoff...I reiterate that it is the GOODS or the SERVICE you are purchasing that is cheap,NOT the price.The price costs nothing.....you cannot buy a price. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 05:19:20 PM
yobarr said
05:03 PM Jul 10, 2019
Magnarc wrote:
Gas heating.
No extra tank.
Instant heat.
No glow plugs.
No smell (upon startup)
Virtually no maintenance.
No cleaning.
Very quiet.
Gas, no brainer!
Just sayin!.
-- Edited by Magnarc on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:37:42 PM
Hi Phil...Good to see that youre happy with your gas heater,but before I purchased anything,I did lots of research,and,to me,Diesel was a no-brainer.No need to worry about availability of diesel anywhere,and I believe that in the bush the price of gas is up to $70 for a 9kg bottle? I have reverse cycle AC,Solar powered,so the heater is used only for water.....my van has no gas appliances at all,although I do carry a small bottle of gas in the car for the gas cooker if I happen to be away from the van for a few days.The car has only 1x190 watt Solar panel and a 90ah Lithium battery,through a 2kw inverter,and I am not yet sure how this will work running my fridge and microwave etc.If all goes as I hope it will,I will discard that bottle too! Cheers
Baz421 said
06:09 PM Jul 10, 2019
Don't be surprised at anything,,, my mate used to import Toyota packaged hydraulic brake parts direct from overseas,,, many proved to be porous castings,, go figure.
It is common knowledge that companies now inspect goods for QA in country of origin before buying.
My nephew spent almost 4-6 months each year inspecting QA in South Korea for GMH until they stopped producing in SA,,,, that says it all eh.
JayDee said
07:07 PM Jul 10, 2019
iana wrote:
Just reading where a person on here brought a diesel heater for $185, not criticizing the purchase at all, just amazes me that all those components can be made and put together, then sold as a kit, including mark ups for profit for this much.
Remembering that this is essentially a firebox and turbine under the bed or similar. Also if something should burn out capable of pumping carbon monoxide into the van. Its all beyond Belief :)
We purchased our Diesel Hearer from Graeme Yost in Tasmania.
-- Edited by JayDee on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 07:08:23 PM
iana said
07:55 PM Jul 10, 2019
I didn't put up the thread to rubbish the heaters, or compare diesel against gas, but its about the price, $185 is probably an hours labor here, just the cost of a fuel pump would be $100 from Europe. These kits are quite comprehensive, so adding up of each part, the price seems amazing, and it can be sold for $185, and the re-seller in Aus can still make a profit, and somebody had to pay freight.
What it is doing is sending other manufacturing businesses broke, because they don't have a hope of competing against that. Perhaps this is all part of the grand plan?
Craig1 said
08:06 PM Jul 10, 2019
A bit like a $2 tee shirt from K Mart. We truly dont need a slave labour shi..y $2 tee shirt! There must be a cut off point between the right price and downright potential dangerous.
Aus-Kiwi said
01:26 AM Jul 11, 2019
Check the mark up on genuine parts !!
SouthernComfort said
08:38 AM Jul 11, 2019
Price pointing is a fascinating science. If the same $185 heater was being sold for 10 times more, how many would buy at $1850? The heater wouldn't be any safer, just dearer, creating the impression that if it's expensive it must be good. But not everyone can afford $1850. I have no idea whether these heaters are great or just crap, but assuming they're sold globally it looks like this mob may be applying the 'stack 'em high, sell 'em low' principle (i.e. high volume sales on small margin = more profit than few sales on high margin). Where they may have gone wrong is having a price point that's too attractive - so low that the market becomes skeptical and therefore wary. Successful price pointing is about finding the sweet spot.
Aus-Kiwi said
09:06 AM Jul 11, 2019
Price doesnt mean anything at times either ., We made turbo manifolds . Both exactly the same . Cost us $150 to buy the steam pipe flange . We sold the black ones for $1550 and the silver for $850 . On seperate sites and names on eBay . We sold twice as many of the $1550 black manifolds. Often we would re paint the silver manifolds. If we run out . Sold 4 to 6 a week .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Thursday 11th of July 2019 09:07:56 AM
blissonwheels said
11:07 AM Jul 11, 2019
Gooday,
There is an old saying-:
"The Bitterness of Poor Quality
Remains Long after the Sweetness
Of Cut Price is Forgotten."
Aus-Kiwi said
11:23 AM Jul 11, 2019
Not much is built to quality these days though ? Just enough to pass safely standards . Look at one of common caravans ? Slapped together and defects fixed by the dealer !! Yet not a cheap purchase !! Check Mercedes Benz warranty issues ? One of the most expensive vehicles !!
dogbox said
12:41 PM Jul 11, 2019
iana wrote:
I didn't put up the thread to rubbish the heaters, or compare diesel against gas, but its about the price, $185 is probably an hours labor here, just the cost of a fuel pump would be $100 from Europe. These kits are quite comprehensive, so adding up of each part, the price seems amazing, and it can be sold for $185, and the re-seller in Aus can still make a profit, and somebody had to pay freight.
What it is doing is sending other manufacturing businesses broke, because they don't have a hope of competing against that. Perhaps this is all part of the grand plan?
the company selling cheap is probably making copies of a brand name product. no investment in research an development ect
was explained to me that foreigners can't own businesses in china must have Chinese partner they make a product to foreigners design and specs foreigner pays for tooling and setup production run goes thru when required amount done, production restarts (new brand name )by Chinese partner. original investor in setup is now competing against his own product
iana said
01:31 PM Jul 11, 2019
Yes that reminds me of seeing a factory in China (on TV) making Apple Iphones during the day, and at night the exact production line was turning out copies.
Evernew98 said
02:29 PM Jul 11, 2019
Magnarc wrote:
Gas heating.
No extra tank.
Instant heat.
No glow plugs.
No smell (upon startup)
Virtually no maintenance.
No cleaning.
Very quiet.
Gas, no brainer!
Just sayin!.
-- Edited by Magnarc on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:37:42 PM
Yes, all this!
Baz421 said
02:52 PM Jul 11, 2019
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Check the mark up on genuine parts !!
Parts prices went sky high in early 90's when the viability of the car industry was about 800,000 or so units a year, but reality was well below that somewhere about 500,000 if I recall.
The difference was made up in parts prices to ensure viability. No one disagreed with this at the time, except consumers.
It didn't work but parts remain sky high.
yobarr said
04:25 PM Jul 11, 2019
iblissonwheels wrote:
Gooday,
There is an old saying-:
"The Bitterness of Poor Quality
Remains Long after the Sweetness
Of Cut Price is Forgotten."
For sure,but always you will find people who do not understand the general concept.....a bit like going to Bathurst in a Daihatsu? You are going to go around and around,but you will never win. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 11th of July 2019 05:34:34 PM
SouthernComfort said
05:10 PM Jul 11, 2019
blissonwheels wrote:
Gooday,
There is an old saying-:
"The Bitterness of Poor Quality
Remains Long after the Sweetness
Of Cut Price is Forgotten."
Yes, a good truism about 'value'. However the key lies in how you determine quality and value. In many (not all) cases low price indicates low quality, but a high price does not necessarily assure high quality and better value. How you determine an item's quality involves understanding how it differs from a cheap item that may look similar. Price alone is not a reliable guide to value.
oldbloke said
07:15 PM Jul 11, 2019
"A bit like a $2 tee shirt from K Mart. We truly dont need a slave labour shi..y $2 tee shirt! There must be a cut off point between the right price and downright potential dangerous.".
Im informed kmart pays about 20cents each.
oldbloke said
08:02 PM Jul 11, 2019
"A bit like a $2 tee shirt from K Mart. We truly dont need a slave labour shi..y $2 tee shirt! There must be a cut off point between the right price and downright potential dangerous.".
Im informed kmart pays about 20cents each.
Craig1 said
09:44 PM Jul 11, 2019
I suppose we cannot consider " anti dumping laws" as we now make " nothing" in Aus any more
Cupie said
11:10 PM Jul 11, 2019
oldbloke wrote:
"A bit like a $2 tee shirt from K Mart. We truly dont need a slave labour shi..y $2 tee shirt! There must be a cut off point between the right price and downright potential dangerous.". Im informed kmart pays about 20cents each.
$2!!! I only buy 'quality' at $6 from BigW. LOL
PeterX said
05:54 AM Jul 12, 2019
Understanding of this , could start with
workers in some Asian countries are paid about $5 / day and that is for 6 days week , 10+ hours day.
No workplace health and safety etc.
Oka374 said
07:59 AM Jul 12, 2019
The heaters are down to $149 for the complete kit, Aussie seller too, can be even less if you buy from overseas but you must factor in the GST.
I've had both a brand name and a chinese side by side on the bench and it is hard to see any difference in the quality, yes some bits like tanks, plastic mouldings, exhaust pipe etc are possibly of slightly lesser quality but they do the job and continue to do so for years.
Spare parts for the brand name are an outrageous cost locally, spare parts for the chinese ones are much cheaper and in many cases will fit both.
One thing that has been found is that the rubber fuel line joiners supplied with many of the cheaper heaters are suspect over time so replacing them with locally sourced fuel line cut up into appropriate pieces is reccomended.
A lot of the problems stem from running the heaters on low settings for extended periods which leads to carbon buildup in the heating chamber and eventual failure. If you have a habit of running the heater on low settings for extended periods it should be pulled apart and cleaned out at least annually.
The problem often occurs because people buy a 5kw version as they are often the cheapest and then run it at less than full bore for extended periods as the heater is actually too big a capacity for the van or motorhome.
Just reading where a person on here brought a diesel heater for $185, not criticizing the purchase at all, just amazes me that all those components can be made and put together, then sold as a kit, including mark ups for profit for this much.
Remembering that this is essentially a firebox and turbine under the bed or similar. Also if something should burn out capable of pumping carbon monoxide into the van. Its all beyond Belief :)
Dare I say that it is also beyond Belief that their or other expensive brands of heaters are 7- 15 times safer or better
David
Yes beyond belief Iana, what people will risk for a so called bargain.
I have spent some time on the Diesel heater Facebook site, looking at the furnaces with holes in them (straight out of the box), reading the problems that are discussed daily, looking at pictures of the huge pile of discarded chinese heaters, etc etc.
I was in Tassie at Gordon when a guy came in, got chatting. His job for tomorrow was to replace his chinese heater again (3rd time), He gets them replaced under warranty??? Said he can change them now very quickly!! He carries 2 spare glow plugs with him.
No value or safety in any of it. Get what you pay for.
(i have a gas one).
Cheers.
-- Edited by The Travelling Dillberries on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 02:17:57 PM
Could I point out that there is no such thing as a Cheap Price.....the price costs nothing.It is the goods (or service) that are cheap or expensive...NOT the price.The price can be high,low,or in between,but the price COSTS NOTHING.My Diesel heater (air and water)cost $2000,but,as Chris says,you get what you pay for.Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:09:20 PM
I am interested in the comment that "price costs nothing". Unfortunately when you buy something you have to part with $$'s unless the item has been given to you. In every purchase there is a cost, your time and the exchange of consideration.
Gas heating.
No extra tank.
Instant heat.
No glow plugs.
No smell (upon startup)
Virtually no maintenance.
No cleaning.
Very quiet.
Gas, no brainer!
Just sayin!.
-- Edited by Magnarc on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:37:42 PM
Hi Geoff...I reiterate that it is the GOODS or the SERVICE you are purchasing that is cheap,NOT the price.The price costs nothing.....you cannot buy a price. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 05:19:20 PM
Magnarc wrote:
Gas heating.
No extra tank.
Instant heat.
No glow plugs.
No smell (upon startup)
Virtually no maintenance.
No cleaning.
Very quiet.
Gas, no brainer!
Just sayin!.
-- Edited by Magnarc on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 04:37:42 PM
Hi Phil...Good to see that youre happy with your gas heater,but before I purchased anything,I did lots of research,and,to me,Diesel was a no-brainer.No need to worry about availability of diesel anywhere,and I believe that in the bush the price of gas is up to $70 for a 9kg bottle? I have reverse cycle AC,Solar powered,so the heater is used only for water.....my van has no gas appliances at all,although I do carry a small bottle of gas in the car for the gas cooker if I happen to be away from the van for a few days.The car has only 1x190 watt Solar panel and a 90ah Lithium battery,through a 2kw inverter,and I am not yet sure how this will work running my fridge and microwave etc.If all goes as I hope it will,I will discard that bottle too! Cheers
Don't be surprised at anything,,, my mate used to import Toyota packaged hydraulic brake parts direct from overseas,,, many proved to be porous castings,, go figure.
It is common knowledge that companies now inspect goods for QA in country of origin before buying.
My nephew spent almost 4-6 months each year inspecting QA in South Korea for GMH until they stopped producing in SA,,,, that says it all eh.
We purchased our Diesel Hearer from Graeme Yost in Tasmania.
Very happy with same.
Talking of
It is beyond belief.
That is the name of his product.
https://www.dieselheat.com.au/belief-2kw-air-parking-heater/
Jay&Dee
-- Edited by JayDee on Wednesday 10th of July 2019 07:08:23 PM
What it is doing is sending other manufacturing businesses broke, because they don't have a hope of competing against that. Perhaps this is all part of the grand plan?
Price doesnt mean anything at times either ., We made turbo manifolds . Both exactly the same . Cost us $150 to buy the steam pipe flange . We sold the black ones for $1550 and the silver for $850 . On seperate sites and names on eBay . We sold twice as many of the $1550 black manifolds. Often we would re paint the silver manifolds. If we run out . Sold 4 to 6 a week .
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Thursday 11th of July 2019 09:07:56 AM
Gooday,
There is an old saying-:
"The Bitterness of Poor Quality
Remains Long after the Sweetness
Of Cut Price is Forgotten."
the company selling cheap is probably making copies of a brand name product. no investment in research an development ect
was explained to me that foreigners can't own businesses in china must have Chinese partner they make a product to foreigners design and specs
foreigner pays for tooling and setup production run goes thru when required amount done, production restarts (new brand name )by Chinese partner. original investor in setup is now competing against his own product
Yes, all this!
Parts prices went sky high in early 90's when the viability of the car industry was about 800,000 or so units a year, but reality was well below that somewhere about 500,000 if I recall.
The difference was made up in parts prices to ensure viability. No one disagreed with this at the time, except consumers.
It didn't work but parts remain sky high.
For sure,but always you will find people who do not understand the general concept.....a bit like going to Bathurst in a Daihatsu? You are going to go around and around,but you will never win. Cheers
-- Edited by yobarr on Thursday 11th of July 2019 05:34:34 PM
Yes, a good truism about 'value'. However the key lies in how you determine quality and value. In many (not all) cases low price indicates low quality, but a high price does not necessarily assure high quality and better value. How you determine an item's quality involves understanding how it differs from a cheap item that may look similar. Price alone is not a reliable guide to value.
$2!!! I only buy 'quality' at $6 from BigW. LOL
workers in some Asian countries are paid about $5 / day and that is for 6 days week , 10+ hours day.
No workplace health and safety etc.
I've had both a brand name and a chinese side by side on the bench and it is hard to see any difference in the quality, yes some bits like tanks, plastic mouldings, exhaust pipe etc are possibly of slightly lesser quality but they do the job and continue to do so for years.
Spare parts for the brand name are an outrageous cost locally, spare parts for the chinese ones are much cheaper and in many cases will fit both.
One thing that has been found is that the rubber fuel line joiners supplied with many of the cheaper heaters are suspect over time so replacing them with locally sourced fuel line cut up into appropriate pieces is reccomended.
A lot of the problems stem from running the heaters on low settings for extended periods which leads to carbon buildup in the heating chamber and eventual failure. If you have a habit of running the heater on low settings for extended periods it should be pulled apart and cleaned out at least annually.
The problem often occurs because people buy a 5kw version as they are often the cheapest and then run it at less than full bore for extended periods as the heater is actually too big a capacity for the van or motorhome.