Thank you Rockylizard, we have a 2 litre cylinder with element on top. Is this any safer?
rockylizard said
09:01 PM May 7, 2019
wendycarlene wrote:
Thank you Rockylizard, we have a 2 litre cylinder with element on top. Is this any safer?
Gday...
If it is similar to this (or on a canister rather than a gas bottle) that it too is dangerous to use indoors - even in a caravan.
Cheers -John
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:04 PM May 7, 2019
wendycarlene wrote:
Thank you Rockylizard, we have a 2 litre cylinder with element on top. Is this any safer?
Absolutely NOT.
All of these gas burning devises produces carbon monoxide which is a VERY poisonous and odourless gas. The effects of breathing in even a low concentration of carbon monoxide are often fatal. People often simply nod off to a peaceful sleep, never to awaken. There are dozens of deaths every year in the US and a surprisingly high number here in Australia.
It is sometimes called "sleeping death".
Cheers,
Peter
wendycarlene said
09:19 PM May 7, 2019
Thank you again. What is the safest form of heating for the van in the cold of Victoria?
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:26 PM May 7, 2019
There are diesel and gas heaters designed for the purpose that are VERY effective and safe because all exhaust fumes are plumbed to the outside of the vehicle. In a caravan park with power available a small electric blow heater will do a good job.
EDIT - we have a diesel heater which provides central heating and also heats our hot water system. Very low cost to run.
Cheers, Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 7th of May 2019 09:27:56 PM
wendycarlene said
09:31 PM May 7, 2019
Yes, re the electric heater which we carry for in caravan parks, but most of our caravanning is free camping if possible. Can you tell me for what purpose the cylinder and element on top is designed . Appreciating your advice.
rockylizard said
09:35 PM May 7, 2019
wendycarlene wrote:
SNIP~~. Can you tell me for what purpose the cylinder and element on top is designed . Appreciating your advice.
Gday...
To provide warmth - however, it is not designed to be used in an enclosed space - tent, awning, caravan, campervan etc etc.
Quite probably not even safe in a small room in a house.
That should be very clearly stated on the packaging it came in ... there may even be a sticker on the element or the gas canister/bottle.
I camp off the grid 95% of the time. On cold nights I have a campfire and then rug up when I go inside and go to bed early.
Cheers - John
Eaglemax said
09:37 PM May 7, 2019
We just installed a 3kw diesel heater that took one day for this handyman type
At $185 it is amazing. On fleabay
landy said
09:48 PM May 7, 2019
Peter_n_Margaret wrote:
There are diesel and gas heaters designed for the purpose that are VERY effective and safe because all exhaust fumes are plumbed to the outside of the vehicle. In a caravan park with power available a small electric blow heater will do a good job.
EDIT - we have a diesel heater which provides central heating and also heats our hot water system. Very low cost to run.
Cheers, Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 7th of May 2019 09:27:56 PM
Apologies to all for going off subject, But Peter and Margret could you please tel me what brand your diesel heater is I have often thought about the possibility of also heating the water with the diesel heater. Landy
wendycarlene said
09:50 PM May 7, 2019
Now, being a bit silly, should we be using this bottle outside the van and freezing to death. Not too practical if it is raining ,either.we do not do the campfire bit , too hard to read by campfire and do not really want to be party to using up every scrap of loose wood around the place. Thank you all, now time to get amongst our microfibres sheets and turn in till the morning.
Peter_n_Margaret said
10:27 PM May 7, 2019
landy wrote:
Apologies to all for going off subject, But Peter and Margret could you please tel me what brand your diesel heater is I have often thought about the possibility of also heating the water with the diesel heater.
It heats glycol (car radiator fluid) and pumps it to fan powered radiators for central heating and to a heat exchanger inside the hot water tank.
We have 2 radiators. One for the bathroom and one for the rest of the vehicle. They can operate together or one at a time. We can even heat the bathroom (with the door closed) and use it to dry the laundry.
It is also connected to the engine, so the engine can heat the hot water while driving and the diesel heater can heat the engine for easy starting in very cold weather.
Almost silent inside (there is some minor noise outside from the exhaust as it starts up) and very versatile. Fuel consumption is minimal (250ml/hour flat out).
More expensive than a pre space heater, but we get more too. Self installed.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 7th of May 2019 10:32:05 PM
Whenarewethere said
06:15 AM May 8, 2019
Are all your windows insulated? You loose 6 watts per square metre per 1°C difference in temperature.
I have insulation for all the car windows. Overnight it was 0°C but inside in the morning was still 9°C in Tassie recently.
Whenarewethere said
07:02 AM May 8, 2019
Apart from waking up dead in the morning from carbon monoxide poisoning. You get a lot of moisture from gas, the "second" last thing one needs!
Roy E said
08:08 AM May 8, 2019
Gidday Wendy,
Everyone seems to believe gas combustion produces carbon monoxide (CO) but under normal circumstances, this is not so and only carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapor are produced. CO2 in an enclosed space can be deadly in causing suffocation and when oxygen levels get very low, then carbon monoxide will be produced by gas flame. CO will also be produced when gas flame is deprived of oxygen for any reason.
Install a carbon monoxide detector in your van for assurance that CO is not being produced during normal gas-cooking operations (or when you feel the desperate need to heat van using gas stove-top).
Cheers,
Roy.
erad said
08:39 AM May 8, 2019
I agree with all of the above comments, but a regular gas stove cooktop probably would not have enough capacity to heat a caravan anyway. As for insulating windows, if you have a poptop caravan, the canvas in the roof section has virtually no insulation properties, so you are fighting a losing battle to heat the caravan. Best to rug up in bed if you are bush camping.
Peter_n_Margaret said
09:02 AM May 8, 2019
Roy E wrote:
Gidday Wendy, Everyone seems to believe gas combustion produces carbon monoxide (CO) but under normal circumstances, this is not so and only carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapor are produced. CO2 in an enclosed space can be deadly in causing suffocation and when oxygen levels get very low, then carbon monoxide will be produced by gas flame. CO will also be produced when gas flame is deprived of oxygen for any reason. Install a carbon monoxide detector in your van for assurance that CO is not being produced during normal gas-cooking operations (or when you feel the desperate need to heat van using gas stove-top). Cheers, Roy.
Sorry, maybe correct in theory, but in fact most gas burning devises are not as efficient at they could be and they WILL produce carbon monoxide all the time.
Advising someone to use a cooking appliance for heating is stupid in the extreme. Permanently here as evidence now for the coroner.
Cheers,
Peter
Whenarewethere said
09:11 AM May 8, 2019
In a previous life I supplied parts to a company that made non flued gas heaters for schools, part of their range of gas heaters, & they were good quality gas heaters.
The heaters burnt the gas at a very narrow temperature range to keep toxic carcinogens to a minimum. In the end these were also banded as they did not comply with Australian standards.
Apart from dieing from carbon monoxide poisoning, there is the issue of carcinogens at a too higher level in a limited space like a classroom.
Possum3 said
09:32 AM May 8, 2019
You can always use the stove to heat water to fill a "Hot Water Bottle" to keep the toe toasty in bed.
Dougwe said
10:05 AM May 8, 2019
When using the gas stove inside the aluminium teepee I always have a window open about 2" and I have a Carbon Monoxide alarm as well as a Smoke alarm.
A few precautions go a long way.
Thanks for the reminder about the hot water bottle possum, I forgot that beast in the cupboard but it will be sitting in the bed tonight.
wendycarlene said
10:19 AM May 8, 2019
Thank you ,but all sounds too complicated for us.
wendycarlene said
10:23 AM May 8, 2019
Thank you. I wouldnt use the stove top to heat the van, just doesnt Seem economical to me, but another caravanner nearby is trying to heat a Cell van with big slide out by using the cooktop.
wendycarlene said
10:29 AM May 8, 2019
Hello Doug, there should also be a vent at bottom of door for ventilation too. Have you tried these Microfibre sheets? So cosy, dont even feel cold when you first get in to bed. Wonderfulwe hope you are going along o k after your little mishap. Does take a while to get over these things.
rockylizard said
10:42 AM May 8, 2019
wendycarlene wrote:
Hello Doug, there should also be a vent at bottom of door for ventilation too. ~~~SNIP
Gday...
That vent at the bottom of the door is to allow/assist the exit of any gas due to a leak - of the gas.
It is not there to provide any protection/ventilation due to carbon monoxide produced by the burning of the gas product.
Cheers - John
Whenarewethere said
11:46 AM May 8, 2019
Germany sells silicone hot water bottles, half size & full size, which have a warranty of 5 years. Much better than the rubbish sold in Australia!
Failing that. We use a 1 litre aluminium Sigg water bottle in a thick Woolen sock. It has never leaked!
JayDee said
01:17 PM May 8, 2019
We also have the two alarms. It is great in winter to enjoy the heat from the stove and cook top when cooking evening meals and of course when preparing morning breakfast.
We own a gas buddy but we do not take it with us as I fear that if left turned on, we may be playing golf on big fella course up there in the big blue yonder. Not ,y sort of game.
We have a diesel heater. The best winter investment we have made for the van.
Like I have been asking, when will some one invent a diesel A/C for the cool of summer???
It will happen, bur only Q is when????
Jay&Dee
Mike Harding said
02:41 PM May 8, 2019
It's not a great idea but I have done it occasionally. It's not instant death as the doom sayers make out but people do, regularly, die from CO poisoning so one needs to understand what's going on. And *EVERYONE* should have a CO alarm in their van. Other things aside it really doesn't seem to be a very efficient way of heating the van instead I start the Honda generator and use the reverse cycle air conditioner - much better :)
the rocket said
03:18 PM May 8, 2019
Strop n i are on the road full time. When it is that cold we pull into a showground with electricity n use our electric heater. Also if too cold use extra blankets, clothing etc. we also buy car sunshield car windscreen protectors and cut them to fit over the windows and sticky them in place with velcro. This works well. Only use stove for cooking.
can someone explain to me why it is not recommended to use the stovetop to heat the caravan? Thank you in advance.
Gday...
This information will explain -
Gas stoves and ovens are for cooking only.
They are not designed or intended for use as space heaters.
Improper use can be dangerous or even fatal
https://www.elgas.com.au/blog/2218-never-use-a-gas-stove-or-oven-as-a-space-heater-lpg-propane
Cheers - John
Darwin Awards Thread maybe.....??
Cheers Keith
Thank you Rockylizard, we have a 2 litre cylinder with element on top. Is this any safer?
Gday...
If it is similar to this (or on a canister rather than a gas bottle) that it too is dangerous to use indoors - even in a caravan.
Cheers -John
Absolutely NOT.
All of these gas burning devises produces carbon monoxide which is a VERY poisonous and odourless gas. The effects of breathing in even a low concentration of carbon monoxide are often fatal. People often simply nod off to a peaceful sleep, never to awaken. There are dozens of deaths every year in the US and a surprisingly high number here in Australia.
It is sometimes called "sleeping death".
Cheers,
Peter
Thank you again. What is the safest form of heating for the van in the cold of Victoria?
There are diesel and gas heaters designed for the purpose that are VERY effective and safe because all exhaust fumes are plumbed to the outside of the vehicle.
In a caravan park with power available a small electric blow heater will do a good job.
EDIT - we have a diesel heater which provides central heating and also heats our hot water system. Very low cost to run.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 7th of May 2019 09:27:56 PM
Yes, re the electric heater which we carry for in caravan parks, but most of our caravanning is free camping if possible. Can you tell me for what purpose the cylinder and element on top is designed . Appreciating your advice.
Gday...
To provide warmth - however, it is not designed to be used in an enclosed space - tent, awning, caravan, campervan etc etc.
Quite probably not even safe in a small room in a house.
That should be very clearly stated on the packaging it came in ... there may even be a sticker on the element or the gas canister/bottle.
I camp off the grid 95% of the time. On cold nights I have a campfire and then rug up when I go inside and go to bed early.
Cheers - John
At $185 it is amazing. On fleabay
Apologies to all for going off subject, But Peter and Margret could you please tel me what brand your diesel heater is I have often thought about the possibility of also heating the water with the diesel heater.
Landy
Now, being a bit silly, should we be using this bottle outside the van and freezing to death. Not too practical if it is raining ,either.we do not do the campfire bit , too hard to read by campfire and do not really want to be party to using up every scrap of loose wood around the place. Thank you all, now time to get amongst our microfibres sheets and turn in till the morning.
Apologies to all for going off subject, But Peter and Margret could you please tel me what brand your diesel heater is I have often thought about the possibility of also heating the water with the diesel heater.
We have a Webasto Thermotop E.
https://www.webasto.com/fileadmin/webasto_files/documents/country-folder/australia/rv/Data-Sheet/australia-rv-caravan-heating-thermo-top/australia-rv-caravan-heating-thermo-top-c-data-sheet.pdf
It heats glycol (car radiator fluid) and pumps it to fan powered radiators for central heating and to a heat exchanger inside the hot water tank.
We have 2 radiators. One for the bathroom and one for the rest of the vehicle. They can operate together or one at a time. We can even heat the bathroom (with the door closed) and use it to dry the laundry.
It is also connected to the engine, so the engine can heat the hot water while driving and the diesel heater can heat the engine for easy starting in very cold weather.
Almost silent inside (there is some minor noise outside from the exhaust as it starts up) and very versatile. Fuel consumption is minimal (250ml/hour flat out).
More expensive than a pre space heater, but we get more too. Self installed.
Cheers,
Peter
-- Edited by Peter_n_Margaret on Tuesday 7th of May 2019 10:32:05 PM
Are all your windows insulated? You loose 6 watts per square metre per 1°C difference in temperature.
I have insulation for all the car windows. Overnight it was 0°C but inside in the morning was still 9°C in Tassie recently.
Apart from waking up dead in the morning from carbon monoxide poisoning. You get a lot of moisture from gas, the "second" last thing one needs!
Everyone seems to believe gas combustion produces carbon monoxide (CO) but under normal circumstances, this is not so and only carbon dioxide (CO2) and water vapor are produced. CO2 in an enclosed space can be deadly in causing suffocation and when oxygen levels get very low, then carbon monoxide will be produced by gas flame. CO will also be produced when gas flame is deprived of oxygen for any reason.
Install a carbon monoxide detector in your van for assurance that CO is not being produced during normal gas-cooking operations (or when you feel the desperate need to heat van using gas stove-top).
Cheers,
Roy.
I agree with all of the above comments, but a regular gas stove cooktop probably would not have enough capacity to heat a caravan anyway. As for insulating windows, if you have a poptop caravan, the canvas in the roof section has virtually no insulation properties, so you are fighting a losing battle to heat the caravan. Best to rug up in bed if you are bush camping.
Sorry, maybe correct in theory, but in fact most gas burning devises are not as efficient at they could be and they WILL produce carbon monoxide all the time.
Advising someone to use a cooking appliance for heating is stupid in the extreme. Permanently here as evidence now for the coroner.
Cheers,
Peter
In a previous life I supplied parts to a company that made non flued gas heaters for schools, part of their range of gas heaters, & they were good quality gas heaters.
The heaters burnt the gas at a very narrow temperature range to keep toxic carcinogens to a minimum. In the end these were also banded as they did not comply with Australian standards.
Apart from dieing from carbon monoxide poisoning, there is the issue of carcinogens at a too higher level in a limited space like a classroom.
You can always use the stove to heat water to fill a "Hot Water Bottle" to keep the toe toasty in bed.
A few precautions go a long way.
Thanks for the reminder about the hot water bottle possum, I forgot that beast in the cupboard but it will be sitting in the bed tonight.
Thank you ,but all sounds too complicated for us.
Thank you. I wouldnt use the stove top to heat the van, just doesnt Seem economical to me, but another caravanner nearby is trying to heat a Cell van with big slide out by using the cooktop.
Hello Doug, there should also be a vent at bottom of door for ventilation too. Have you tried these Microfibre sheets? So cosy, dont even feel cold when you first get in to bed. Wonderfulwe hope you are going along o k after your little mishap. Does take a while to get over these things.
Gday...
That vent at the bottom of the door is to allow/assist the exit of any gas due to a leak - of the gas.
It is not there to provide any protection/ventilation due to carbon monoxide produced by the burning of the gas product.
Cheers - John
Germany sells silicone hot water bottles, half size & full size, which have a warranty of 5 years. Much better than the rubbish sold in Australia!
Failing that. We use a 1 litre aluminium Sigg water bottle in a thick Woolen sock. It has never leaked!
We also have the two alarms. It is great in winter to enjoy the heat from the stove and cook top when cooking evening meals and of course when preparing morning breakfast.
We own a gas buddy but we do not take it with us as I fear that if left turned on, we may be playing golf on big fella course up there in the big blue yonder. Not ,y sort of game.
We have a diesel heater. The best winter investment we have made for the van.
Like I have been asking, when will some one invent a diesel A/C for the cool of summer???
It will happen, bur only Q is when????
Jay&Dee
It's not a great idea but I have done it occasionally. It's not instant death as the doom sayers make out but people do, regularly, die from CO poisoning so one needs to understand what's going on. And *EVERYONE* should have a CO alarm in their van. Other things aside it really doesn't seem to be a very efficient way of heating the van instead I start the Honda generator and use the reverse cycle air conditioner - much better :)
Strop n i are on the road full time. When it is that cold we pull into a showground with electricity n use our electric heater. Also if too cold use extra blankets, clothing etc. we also buy car sunshield car windscreen protectors and cut them to fit over the windows and sticky them in place with velcro. This works well. Only use stove for cooking.