-- Edited by Dave1952 on Wednesday 12th of September 2018 03:43:44 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
04:23 PM Sep 12, 2018
Ok if engineered .,
dogbox said
06:36 PM Sep 12, 2018
caravans could be the next to come under scrutiny
Dave1952 said
10:57 PM Sep 12, 2018
AK, the coppers are even defecting brand new vehicles with the 2 inch lift and larger tyres direct from the dealership, according to one report. Apparently they have decided to go ahead and start a blitz despite DTMR still being in talks with industry about how people can gain compliance. Maybe a fund raising exercise, but I have no idea.
As Dogbox has said, caravans could well be the next ones to come under scrutiny.
No doubt the blitz by QPS is targeting those vehicles which have departed from OEM specs, but it does not explain the report that a couple of drivers with brand new fourbies have been defected and that despite the lift kit being fitted by the dealership and only being 2 inch. Larger tyres apparently were also fitted by the dealership which caused the lift to be 75 mm or 3 inches. Dunno how that works, but maybe they should have had a modification plate fitted and it would have avoided any grief.
Kebbin said
08:01 AM Sep 13, 2018
As soon as I read 'apparently' that was it, apparently no evidence of a blitz just hearsay, scaremongering nothing more until some acknowledgement of actions. Having said that new safety regulations wouldn't go astray with tug size v caravan weights.
SouthernComfort said
08:03 AM Sep 13, 2018
Also happening in Vic. One example is the Maroondah Hwy between Bonnie Doon and Mansfield, notorious for police targeting lifted 4x4's en route to lakes and mountains.
Edit: No scaremongering here, real. Big topic of conversation in this area. Friend was recently stopped (with me on board), we watched police exit their car with tape measure already in hand.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Thursday 13th of September 2018 08:08:56 AM
Franji said
09:44 AM Sep 13, 2018
I heard about this also, interesting. I might be a bit naieve here but how can they enforce this if you are registered in say
NSW?
Dave1952 said
10:24 AM Sep 13, 2018
Kebbin, if you have a look at the links I posted you will see that it is all over the print media in SE Queensland. QPS posted a media alert which was reprinted on Pat Callinans 4X4 Adventures today. It is not simply apparently. It is happening and the Australian Aftermarket Automotive Accessories organisation has weighed in on the argument now too.
An excellent point raised by Franji. Pat Callinan also raised something that has clearly not been considered by those running Operation Lift as the QPS is calling it - that is how it can be that what was legal a couple of months ago is now illegal. As well this is the most stringent law in Australia.
rockylizard said
10:36 AM Sep 13, 2018
Dave1952 wrote:
Kebbin, if you have a look at the links I posted you will see that it is all over the print media in SE Queensland. QPS posted a media alert which was reprinted on Pat Callinans 4X4 Adventures today. It is not simply apparently. It is happening and the Australian Aftermarket Automotive Accessories organisation has weighed in on the argument now too.
An excellent point raised by Franji. Pat Callinan also raised something that has clearly not been considered by those running Operation Lift as the QPS is calling it - that is how it can be that what was legal a couple of months ago is now illegal. As well this is the most stringent law in Australia.
Gday...
Who sez it was "legal a couple of months ago"?
Like vanners with their standard, non-lifted, 4x4s overloaded beyond GVM and their vans at or over ATM ... it is just what was the 'norm'.
I just hope all these 'crackdowns' that are going on with vehicles and vans bring it home to the true source of the problem ..... vehicle and van manufacturers.
They build and quote 'specs' that have no hope of ever being able to be adhered to without modification and the poor owner/driver of the vehicle carries the cost in fines etc.
Personally, the only vehicles I have modified away from manufacturer's specs are those I used in motorsport ... anything I drive on the road - whether bitumen, dirt of low-range high country roads - stays standard.
Many times I have followed those 'lifted/big wheeled' boys toys into places with standard a 4x4 ... they just hoon through, and I have to think about it .. but I still get in there .... and more importantly out again.
Unless ya gonna do the 'real outback' WA>NT roads or completely rutted, grotted, eroded mountain tracks etc, standard, driven sensibly will go to 99% of anywhere ya wanna go.
Jest sayin'
Cheers - John
miroku12g said
10:43 AM Sep 13, 2018
Not apparently
Cops [with Dept Transport] in Maroochydore started yesterday at Alex Headland, I know as my son was pulled up with his 2 week old Colorado, they also measured the towball height from ground to center of the ball, it was fitted as per factory !
He did comply.
Regards
Dave
wasn_me said
11:17 AM Sep 13, 2018
I know of several 4x4s that have extteme lift kits, then the anti sway bar is removed to allow maximum individual wheel travel. A good combination for vehicle rollover. These things are on the highways. They are taken into the bush & thrashed,then driven home on the highway, with who knows what damage to steering & suspension.
Cheers Pete
dabbler said
01:15 PM Sep 13, 2018
This won't stop the conspiracy theories and won't keep some happy but here is TMR and Qld Govt position.
statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws
rodrocket said
01:46 PM Sep 13, 2018
About time something is done, some of the 4X4 I have seen you need a step ladder just to get into them, some of it is totally crazy
Driving towards some of these things of a night can be an experience also with there lights directly at eye level & most of them are wobbling all over the road
Ozzie_Traveller said
04:23 PM Sep 13, 2018
G'day all
My 2-bob's worth says "It's about time & long overdue" ... get the buggers off the road When I am passenger in 'her' nissan runabout, I am horrified to look sideways to see that I am level with the numberplate of some gad-awful 4WD job, whose headlights & bullbar [if fitted] would come straight thru the window at me in a collision. There is no excuse for it, and to my way of thinking, it cannot be 'engineered' to conform to RTA requirements
Here's 2 examples I have snapped in recent times
1)
2)
You can easily see in #2 how it towers over the ute it's parked behind
Phil
-- Edited by Ozzie_Traveller on Thursday 13th of September 2018 04:24:28 PM
Thanks for the link Dabbler. It's nice to get the info direct from the source.
The 'crack down' has been all over the forums with threats that NSW and VIC were next on the list to be done. It's interesting to see how this stuff takes off. Probably better for the coppers in the end
I'm sure they would have let it run too, had there not been criticism in there about the change of laws etc that they needed to defend.
If do also often wonder about those who can be keenly critical of others on forums and how many of them live in glass houses ?
cheers Brett
Dave1952 said
05:52 PM Sep 13, 2018
John, please do not shoot the messenger. All I did was to quote what is reported by AAAA. If anyone has any concerns or issues, perhaps they need to check the legality of their vehicle.
As well, I started this discussion to make those whose vehicles, whether tugs or not, may not comply So they know that they may be targeted by blue uniforms in Qld. Dunno what the deal is in other States. It is enough keeping up with legislative changes here in the Sunshine State.
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Thursday 13th of September 2018 05:58:08 PM
rockylizard said
07:10 PM Sep 13, 2018
dabbler wrote:
This won't stop the conspiracy theories and won't keep some happy but here is TMR and Qld Govt position. statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/2018/9/12/operation-lift-and-queenslands-suspension-and-lift-laws
Gday...
Thanks dabbler ... just another item that finds its way in, around and through social media and gets blown up like good ole Chicken Little.
As they say, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Having said that, I too believe there are many, and some on here, who have done modifications to their vehicles - even if "legal" - that need some thought applied.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 13th of September 2018 08:41:53 PM
Franji said
08:22 PM Sep 13, 2018
Thanks for the link dabbler, that makes it all a bit clearer. There are some pretty radical, creative modifications out there that aren't certified to say the least
denmonkey said
11:00 PM Sep 13, 2018
I believe my vehicle is legal. It has a 2inch lift prior to the bull bar , fridge, rear bed, solar panels , bash plates and aux battery going in. So I no longer have that 2 inches. I've also gone to 32" wheels.
John has a point with regards to how many make use of that but her in my area I would say quite a few and we don't need to go to WA or the NT to benefit from them. I think we have some of the best 4wd trails available in NSW with the watagans on our back door step.
If I didn't have those mods, I wouldn't have made it up this
or this
I'm not saying anyone can't have an opinion or the right to express why they believe something, but just because you don't want to do something, doesn't always mean others don't either.
Because of the mods I have done to my vehicle, it can take me places and do things it would not otherwise be capable of.
If I won the lotto, I'd have a road vehicle and an off road one .... still waiting though, so this is work and play
Great comment Denmonkey. You are spot on. When I started this thread, it was solely to make people aware of what is happening with law enforcement in Queensland. Do I believe that some modifications should be street legal? I will not pose an opinion, as you have said so succinctly, everyone can have an opinion, and I choose to keep mine to myself.
Are some modifications safe? When we see a Hilux, for example, that has been lifted six or eight inches, I have to question the safety because it then puts added stress on other drive train components unless it has been properly engineered. As I am not an automotive engineer, I choose to be happy with my stock standard Landcruiser, since it does all I want and need. I no longer do extreme four wheel driving and smply use my cruiser as a tug for caravan or trailer.
SouthernComfort said
11:59 AM Sep 14, 2018
It's all about individual needs. If you're not rock climbing, lifts are pretty pointless. I think many (younger?) owners just like the 'pose' factor of their lifted vehicle. Funny, in my day we used to lower our cars - purely for looks of course! Full circle...
denmonkey said
01:52 PM Sep 14, 2018
SouthernComfort wrote:
It's Funny, in my day we used to lower our cars - purely for looks of course! Full circle...
I was only just thinking the same thing the other day.
guys were chopping springs in their back yards to drop them on their 'guts'.
I still laugh at these guys trying to get into the servo or macdonalds car parks, coming in at obscure angles so they dont lose their front bumpers on the gutter :)
Dave1952 said
02:00 PM Sep 14, 2018
I, too, was only thinking of the very same thing the other day myself. Shows that we are all getting that bit older.....sigh!
PeterD said
03:45 PM Sep 14, 2018
rockylizard wrote:
Dave1952 wrote:
An excellent point raised by Franji. Pat Callinan also raised something that has clearly not been considered by those running Operation Lift as the QPS is calling it - that is how it can be that what was legal a couple of months ago is now illegal. As well this is the most stringent law in Australia.
Gday...
Who sez it was "legal a couple of months ago"?
A good point. The link that dabbler produced indicated that the old laws were relaced a little. If those booked or chipped by the authorities dids not meet the current standards they certainly would not have met the previous standards.
denmonkey said
09:55 PM Sep 14, 2018
yeah I shared Dab's link on a 4wd forum. He was right about the conspiracy theorists no liking it one bit. horse to water and all that.
Of course, we can all trust what the government tells us
dabbler said
10:55 PM Sep 14, 2018
The conspiracy theory takes a hit when you point out there are different regs and rules governing modifications in all areas of road use and vehicle type not just 4x4. Just mention helmet laws, number plate laws, towing capacity or water/methanol injection. All covered by ADR, all different across the country.
PeterD said
12:13 AM Sep 15, 2018
dabbler wrote:
All covered by ADR, all different across the country.
There is only one set of ADRs - making them the same all over the country.
dabbler said
12:55 AM Sep 15, 2018
PeterD wrote:
dabbler wrote:
All covered by ADR, all different across the country.
There is only one set of ADRs - making them the same all over the country.
One set of ADRs but each state/territory sets and (sometimes) enforces their own laws based on their interpretation of those ADRs (as in the examples I presented).
Warren-Pat_01 said
12:58 AM Sep 15, 2018
I've never had any issues when I've been pulled over for licence & booze checks. One copper reminded me (when I was travelling) that my rego was due in three weeks time which was of great assistance! I have no idea when my Patrol was modified (possibly owner #1 & I'm the 4th). I was led to believe that a 2" lift kit was ok but after that the police could start asking questions.
There are a couple of vehicles in Townsville that really should not be allowed on the road - similar or higher than those photographed by Ozzie Traveller. How they handle in normal traffic, I have no idea & the thought of a bulbar coming through a car's windscreen in an accident is horrific.
I reckon it's just as well as our "friend" Mr Dutton is a pollie - he was a cop & I'd guess he' be one of the narky ones.
Hottuna said
11:59 AM Sep 15, 2018
My new ranger has a gvm/gcm upgrade done prior to first rego. It gave me an initial 3 inch lift at the rear which has now settled to 2 inches. It meets the criteria for a legal lift with no room for increased tyre size. It does have second stage manufacturer compliance plate fitted by lovells.
Hardly radical, just means I can legally tow my max 3.5t even if loaded to the new gvm of 3.5t. As you can see, my van is not 3.5t but by the time I fitted the canopy, long range fuel tank, bullbar etc I was down to about 2.8t max without and wanted to future proof the tug for when I upgrade the van in a year or two.
There is a lt of news about Queensland Police pulling drivers of four wheel drive vehicles with lift kits and wider wheels over and defecting them.
These are but two of the articles: https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/qld-police-ambushed-modified-4wds-119460
http://www.mygc.com.au/police-targeting-illegally-modified-4wds/
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Wednesday 12th of September 2018 03:43:44 PM
As Dogbox has said, caravans could well be the next ones to come under scrutiny.
No doubt the blitz by QPS is targeting those vehicles which have departed from OEM specs, but it does not explain the report that a couple of drivers with brand new fourbies have been defected and that despite the lift kit being fitted by the dealership and only being 2 inch. Larger tyres apparently were also fitted by the dealership which caused the lift to be 75 mm or 3 inches. Dunno how that works, but maybe they should have had a modification plate fitted and it would have avoided any grief.
Also happening in Vic. One example is the Maroondah Hwy between Bonnie Doon and Mansfield, notorious for police targeting lifted 4x4's en route to lakes and mountains.
Edit: No scaremongering here, real. Big topic of conversation in this area. Friend was recently stopped (with me on board), we watched police exit their car with tape measure already in hand.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Thursday 13th of September 2018 08:08:56 AM
An excellent point raised by Franji. Pat Callinan also raised something that has clearly not been considered by those running Operation Lift as the QPS is calling it - that is how it can be that what was legal a couple of months ago is now illegal. As well this is the most stringent law in Australia.
Gday...
Who sez it was "legal a couple of months ago"?
Like vanners with their standard, non-lifted, 4x4s overloaded beyond GVM and their vans at or over ATM ... it is just what was the 'norm'.
I just hope all these 'crackdowns' that are going on with vehicles and vans bring it home to the true source of the problem ..... vehicle and van manufacturers.
They build and quote 'specs' that have no hope of ever being able to be adhered to without modification and the poor owner/driver of the vehicle carries the cost in fines etc.
Personally, the only vehicles I have modified away from manufacturer's specs are those I used in motorsport ... anything I drive on the road - whether bitumen, dirt of low-range high country roads - stays standard.
Many times I have followed those 'lifted/big wheeled' boys toys into places with standard a 4x4 ... they just hoon through, and I have to think about it .. but I still get in there .... and more importantly out again.
Unless ya gonna do the 'real outback' WA>NT roads or completely rutted, grotted, eroded mountain tracks etc, standard, driven sensibly will go to 99% of anywhere ya wanna go.
Jest sayin'
Cheers - John
Cops [with Dept Transport] in Maroochydore started yesterday at Alex Headland, I know as my son was pulled up with his 2 week old Colorado, they also measured the towball height from ground to center of the ball, it was fitted as per factory !
He did comply.
Regards
Dave
Driving towards some of these things of a night can be an experience also with there lights directly at eye level & most of them are wobbling all over the road
G'day all
My 2-bob's worth says "It's about time & long overdue" ... get the buggers off the road
When I am passenger in 'her' nissan runabout, I am horrified to look sideways to see that I am level with the numberplate of some gad-awful 4WD job, whose headlights & bullbar [if fitted] would come straight thru the window at me in a collision. There is no excuse for it, and to my way of thinking, it cannot be 'engineered' to conform to RTA requirements
Here's 2 examples I have snapped in recent times
1)
2)
You can easily see in #2 how it towers over the ute it's parked behind
Phil
-- Edited by Ozzie_Traveller on Thursday 13th of September 2018 04:24:28 PM
Thanks for the link Dabbler. It's nice to get the info direct from the source.
The 'crack down' has been all over the forums with threats that NSW and VIC were next on the list to be done.
It's interesting to see how this stuff takes off.
Probably better for the coppers in the end
I'm sure they would have let it run too, had there not been criticism in there about the change of laws etc that they needed to defend.
If do also often wonder about those who can be keenly critical of others on forums and how many of them live in glass houses ?
cheers Brett
John, please do not shoot the messenger. All I did was to quote what is reported by AAAA. If anyone has any concerns or issues, perhaps they need to check the legality of their vehicle.
As well, I started this discussion to make those whose vehicles, whether tugs or not, may not comply So they know that they may be targeted by blue uniforms in Qld. Dunno what the deal is in other States. It is enough keeping up with legislative changes here in the Sunshine State.
-- Edited by Dave1952 on Thursday 13th of September 2018 05:58:08 PM
Gday...
Thanks dabbler ... just another item that finds its way in, around and through social media and gets blown up like good ole Chicken Little.
As they say, never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Having said that, I too believe there are many, and some on here, who have done modifications to their vehicles - even if "legal" - that need some thought applied.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Thursday 13th of September 2018 08:41:53 PM
I believe my vehicle is legal. It has a 2inch lift prior to the bull bar , fridge, rear bed, solar panels , bash plates and aux battery going in. So I no longer have that 2 inches.
I've also gone to 32" wheels.
John has a point with regards to how many make use of that but her in my area I would say quite a few and we don't need to go to WA or the NT to benefit from them.
I think we have some of the best 4wd trails available in NSW with the watagans on our back door step.
If I didn't have those mods, I wouldn't have made it up this
or this
I'm not saying anyone can't have an opinion or the right to express why they believe something, but just because you don't want to do something, doesn't always mean others don't either.
Because of the mods I have done to my vehicle, it can take me places and do things it would not otherwise be capable of.
If I won the lotto, I'd have a road vehicle and an off road one .... still waiting though, so this is work and play
Are some modifications safe? When we see a Hilux, for example, that has been lifted six or eight inches, I have to question the safety because it then puts added stress on other drive train components unless it has been properly engineered. As I am not an automotive engineer, I choose to be happy with my stock standard Landcruiser, since it does all I want and need. I no longer do extreme four wheel driving and smply use my cruiser as a tug for caravan or trailer.
I was only just thinking the same thing the other day.
guys were chopping springs in their back yards to drop them on their 'guts'.
I still laugh at these guys trying to get into the servo or macdonalds car parks, coming in at obscure angles so they dont lose their front bumpers on the gutter :)
A good point. The link that dabbler produced indicated that the old laws were relaced a little. If those booked or chipped by the authorities dids not meet the current standards they certainly would not have met the previous standards.
yeah I shared Dab's link on a 4wd forum. He was right about the conspiracy theorists no liking it one bit.
horse to water and all that.
Of course, we can all trust what the government tells us
There is only one set of ADRs - making them the same all over the country.
One set of ADRs but each state/territory sets and (sometimes) enforces their own laws based on their interpretation of those ADRs (as in the examples I presented).
There are a couple of vehicles in Townsville that really should not be allowed on the road - similar or higher than those photographed by Ozzie Traveller. How they handle in normal traffic, I have no idea & the thought of a bulbar coming through a car's windscreen in an accident is horrific.
I reckon it's just as well as our "friend" Mr Dutton is a pollie - he was a cop & I'd guess he' be one of the narky ones.
My new ranger has a gvm/gcm upgrade done prior to first rego. It gave me an initial 3 inch lift at the rear which has now settled to 2 inches. It meets the criteria for a legal lift with no room for increased tyre size. It does have second stage manufacturer compliance plate fitted by lovells.
Hardly radical, just means I can legally tow my max 3.5t even if loaded to the new gvm of 3.5t. As you can see, my van is not 3.5t but by the time I fitted the canopy, long range fuel tank, bullbar etc I was down to about 2.8t max without and wanted to future proof the tug for when I upgrade the van in a year or two.