I see more and more free camps being closed due to abuse
I live in FNQ and can say that places like Rocky Creek are so full its not funny
I have seen here where people complain about fellow campers parking to close to each other
I do not have an issue with free camping and will be using one at Elpinstone this week
but are we killing the goose that laid the golden egg ???
barrie said
07:04 PM Aug 4, 2017
Add Callide Dam to that now ,no camping signs went up yesterday
Desert Dweller said
07:47 PM Aug 4, 2017
Ubif wrote:
I see more and more free camps being closed due to abuse
I live in FNQ and can say that places like Rocky Creek are so full its not funny
I have seen here where people complain about fellow campers parking to close to each other
I do not have an issue with free camping and will be using one at Elpinstone this week
but are we killing the goose that laid the golden egg ???
Totally agree. Lots of people including backpackers & retirees not donating at small community travellers rest type stop overs. More & more joining the throng but less places to enjoy.
In the future it will probably all end up in tears in the playground. Free camps in a bush setting stripped of vegetation by pyromaniacs etc etc.
Phillipn said
08:54 PM Aug 4, 2017
The caravan parks in northern Australia all have full house signs out the front and people are being turned away. Where do the RV`s go? Councils need to provide more free or low cost camps around small towns so the buisness people in the towns get a share from the winter migration.
Councils listen to the greedy caravan park operators, who charge like scrub bulls. and have no camping signs placed everywhere. A good example of this is the Whitsunday council.
Caravans are still being built and sold, so we can expect more each year to head north for the winter.
The rubbish left at camps is more likly put their by the local louts having a big night out. I witness this at Ban Ban Springs a few years ago. The rubbish was picked up by Grey Nomads.
macka17 said
09:15 PM Aug 4, 2017
If people thought a little.
And did Maybe?? 2, 3, or maybe 4 days "free" camping. Paying their way the other nights.
They MAY. Just level the playing field a bit.
ALL FREE. ALL the time. Yea. It's not a free world anymore. That's loooong gone.
Just remember. EVERYTHING. Belongs to somebody.
It will catch up. And you'll ALL end up paying everywhere. OR not going...
Totally Self inflicted.
IF you can't afford to travel and pay your way, Just maybe. some need to be doing something else.
Like basing a van in one spot. and paying your rent. But NO fuel costs. Then on to another of your choice for a while.(coupla tredlies) So forth. so on. You'll still see different areas. without the full time travelling\towing costs.
It's the full on freeloaders that are causing the problem. with the imports adding to it. If things don't change soon. They'll all be sorry.
Lotsa caravans. Lotsa people with no where to go and no money to get there.
If you start a lifestyle. You have to be realistic about it.
We're fairly economical. and when travelling with van for 3 or so months a yr. We averaged $12\1400 a week. With no real extra's. Just comfortable.
Vanning IS, really cheap. Even paying your own way.
Depending on your financial level of.
People need to be sensible about it. and maybe. have some left for their children.
-- Edited by macka17 on Friday 4th of August 2017 09:16:26 PM
-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 5th of August 2017 04:09:23 PM
Darmc said
07:19 AM Aug 5, 2017
Totally agree Ubif, some of the free camps are totally being abused. The amount of people staying at Rocky Creek, Fletchers Creek, Babinda, Green Patch at Gordenvale and the Camps north of Townsville is creating ghetto style of living. North Queensland is experiencing another year of low rainfall. The permenant residents having strict water restrictions and Townsville huge costs to pump water from Burdekin Dam. All the while some campers want water for free. What is free.
The donation boxes sounds like a good idea. However, boxes at Lions Mountain Road, Wivenhoe Dam and now the one at Split Rock near Laura, are being robbed. Split Rock art site is likely to be closed to the public as once again people aren't paying or stealing the box.
Darmc
-- Edited by Darmc on Saturday 5th of August 2017 07:53:27 AM
We were at a camp last week with a donation box. Lots of people there n only saw a few people donatEd. One man openly said he had spent money in the town, therefore not donating. Free firewood, maintenance, toilets. Gee, we spent money in the town n surrounding area too But put money in the donation box. Disappointed in some.
Mike Harding said
08:03 AM Aug 5, 2017
Phillipn wrote:The rubbish left at camps is more likly put their by the local louts having a big night out. I witness this at Ban Ban Springs a few years ago. The rubbish was picked up by Grey Nomads.
I see! So it's locals who are destroying all the free camps and not contributing at the donations boxes.
Those damn locals! Although not the locals who set up and maintain the camps and, according to Phillipn, allow other locals to destroy them. Those locals are OK, I guess? And, of course, 99.99% of Grey Nomads are just wonderful people who never do anything wrong.
As I said in the previous thread on this subject: stop putting good camps in Wiki Camps.
Whilst Wiki Camps is not the sole cause of these issues it is a significant contributor to them. Every backpacker will have a mobile phone and a copy of Wiki Camps.
Expect to see more threads advising of camp closures.
Aussie1 said
10:21 AM Aug 5, 2017
The sad reality (in my opinion) is that the more "free camps" are closed, caravanner's, and the like, will simply make their own arrangements and just camp anywhere that suits them. Quite often in secluded spots. I do believe there is already a small percentage that do it now. And with that comes more chance of dumping rubbish (including emptying black and grey water anywhere). due to no bins etc. This will of course have the impact of making it very difficult to control and police. Which in it self creates another cost. Lets hope it does not get to that extent. I also find i sad when I read that some do not donate for the upkeep of these "low cost or free sites" for reasons stated above by another poster.
Wanda said
12:39 PM Aug 5, 2017
Hi
I agree with Philipn in that many popular spots, in particularly near towns etc are visited by locals, as well as grey nomads, and sadly it is the locals leaving behind their rubbish a lot of the time. I don't think any of us are nieve enough to think all Grey Nomads are saints but why do we all worry so much about the minority because I am sure "most" of us travellers(everyone, not just us old f...ts) do the right thing "most" of the time, including making donations when we feel it is warranted.
Reading some of these posts makes me feel there must be a lot of grey nomads feeling the load of being perfect "all" the time.
regards
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Saturday 5th of August 2017 12:46:27 PM
macka17 said
04:07 PM Aug 5, 2017
WHY...
Do people (in general) have nice clean tidy homes.
Usually. and pay their way.
Then. As soon as "some" get into another cycle. IE Travelling.
Become completely different.
You keep your yard tidy, don't dump rubbish. empty out waste water.
Why is travelling so different.
No matter where you go. It belongs to someone nowadays.
Even the scrub. Or it is Nat, Park lands.
All needs some level of maint, which costs somebody's wages.
How'd you (The ones that do it) feel. if strangers kept, daily.
Stopping on your dirt. and leaving waste water. rubbish.
With no compensation or donation?.
Even the people that say. OK. You can stay here.
But please leave a few coins, havo pay wages and running costs
for a person. Crew. to clean up after the ones that don't.
SO. You insult them. By making a mess. leaving no donations.
and just p-ss off.
No wonder they close them.
Desert Dweller said
07:42 PM Aug 5, 2017
Wanda wrote:
Hi
Reading some of these posts makes me feel there must be a lot of grey nomads feeling the load of being perfect "all" the time.
regards
Ian
It's not difficult to be perfect ''all'' of the time, it's called common sense, not all of us possess it.
Gaylehere said
10:28 PM Aug 5, 2017
Could some of these very full popular free camps (donation box camps) have a caretaker camping there to collect "donation", oversee area etc. in exchange for some power or other necessity in life. From what I've seen a lot of people don't put anything in the donation boxes or pay their few dollars at the local visitor information centre. One camp that comes to mind is the one outside of Longreach.
macka17 said
05:00 AM Aug 6, 2017
The first "donation box" we ever came across.
Was yrs ago at "Devils Marbles" NT
we arrived there early, Lunch time. Short travel.
around 25 rigs came in.
NOT one stopped at or walked to the box on sign.
Next morn. ALL went out.
Again. Not one donated. and there were plenty of little brown bags to put it in.
Looks like it hasn't improved much hey.
Some expensive rigs too.
They just Straight out THIEVES.. STEALING.
Doesn't say much for the morality of a lot of travellers, does it.
Just the same as those "stealing" space and time from others at the 24'48hr stopovers. And some stay for a week or more.
It's a pity there can't be rules that a daily park inspector with camera. and compulsory ticket machine.
Free loaders a plenty , And there are plenty on this forum .
Desert Dweller said
06:01 AM Aug 6, 2017
Trouble is a lot of people think that all camps are FREE CAMPS when many of them are DONATION CAMPS. There's a big difference.
Izabarack said
07:15 AM Aug 6, 2017
Wuruma Dam in Qld is not far off closing, according to the signs and the bad behaviour by the campers. Area available for camping has been halved, at least. Still, the long term overstayers spread themselves out and the generator users ignore the posted rules, plus piles of Redclaw heads and tails thrown in the grass to stink.
SouthernComfort said
09:05 AM Aug 6, 2017
I probably should have put this in response the other post in here about "disgusting behaviour", but they are linked somewhat.
Anyway, nothing about the way humans behave is likely to change, no matter how much frustration we vent! Human behaviours are innate and are definitely NOT age specific i.e. the offenders have an ingrained attitude that they won't (therefore can't) be educated out of.
A lack of consideration is found in many sectors, not just camp sites - a few of my favourites (!):
office kitchens & washrooms (left filthy, unlike theirs at home) hotel guest rooms (left filthy if not wrecked) littering in general (everywhere you look) lit cigarette butts flicked from the car (the perfect firelighter) refusal to recycle (just shove anything into any bin) dumping in public places (best place to leave an old mattress) dumping in someone else's skip/dumper (I'd love to catch 'em in the act!)
Most people keep their own home neat and clean because it BELONGS to them (often different behaviours in rental properties). Pity the offenders can't understand that a share of the environment also belongs to them and that there is a price to be paid for using it. As far as campers and other travellers go, it's entirely logical that the incidence of bad behaviour will increase as the numbers increase. It's a worldwide condition, nothing unique to Oz.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Sunday 6th of August 2017 09:08:49 AM
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Sunday 6th of August 2017 09:15:38 AM
barrie said
04:14 PM Aug 6, 2017
Must be those Victorians at Waruma Dam
brickies said
04:39 PM Aug 6, 2017
We should push for maximin of 7 days at any free camps .
the rocket said
04:42 PM Aug 6, 2017
barrie wrote:
Must be those Victorians at Waruma Dam
Where is waruma dam please
barrie said
07:05 PM Aug 6, 2017
Waruma is close to Monto, Rocket
macka17 said
09:08 PM Aug 6, 2017
OK. Where's Monto.????
brickies said
09:17 PM Aug 6, 2017
You know where Yeppoon is well it not near there .
SouthernComfort said
08:42 AM Aug 7, 2017
barrie wrote:
Must be those Victorians at Waruma Dam
Sorry, but you can only post in here if you're over 14 y/o. Run along now...
macka17 said
09:30 AM Aug 7, 2017
Thank's Brickie.
NOW I know.
Often did wonder.
They apparently have good bass there in the comp's.
Just too far South of Australia for me hey.
Or was that Queensland. Chuckle.
barrie said
03:42 PM Aug 7, 2017
Touchy mexican are you Tony spitting out yer dummy
msg said
09:36 AM Aug 8, 2017
I am beginning to wonder if this site has been taken over by "Free Camping" haters. There are numerous threads condemning.
I have travelled extensively over the last eight years, mostly free camping. I have rarely come across filthy people who do some of the things they are accused of.
The worst was at Rifle creek when a group of backpackers arrived. They seemed to think it OK to pee in the grass outside their car instead of walking across to the toilet. A few words were said.
Most free camps were quite clean. I can't say anything about the public toilets and showers as I don't use them. Have seen no evidence of cassettes being dumped inappropriately, few paper flowers etc.
Long stayers? They do no more damage than those pulling in for a night.
Social propaganda machine at work?
jules47 said
04:23 PM Aug 8, 2017
I think some of the posters are not full time travellers - those who are know that you clean up after yourself, and pick up rubbish left by others and bin it, or in a bag and take it to the next place you find a bin.
We are travelling the Nullarbor, currently at Fraser Range Free Camp, which now has a long drop toilet and dump point, phone and internet available, as it was at Baxter free camp last night.
At both these camps there are toilets, about 6 rubbish bins (big ones, with caged lids), but, still, there was a plethora of "snow" scattered around, empty bottles, broken glass, and various other bits of garbage, including an oil container, full of oil, obviously changed the oil and just left the dirty oil next to the rubbish bin.
As msg says, most of the rubbish is left by "overnighters", in my opinion from observation.
Tony Bev said
06:27 PM Aug 13, 2017
I think that we are preaching to the church choir here
I do not believe that a person responsible enough to be active on this forum, would be the type of person to spread rubbish around
Unfortunately we are all tarred with the same brush
Hopefully all travelers will (one day in the future), connect the spreading of rubbish, lack of donations, and lack of spending money in the areas of the free camps, with the closing of the free camps
I see more and more free camps being closed due to abuse
I live in FNQ and can say that places like Rocky Creek are so full its not funny
I have seen here where people complain about fellow campers parking to close to each other
I do not have an issue with free camping and will be using one at Elpinstone this week
but are we killing the goose that laid the golden egg ???
Totally agree. Lots of people including backpackers & retirees not donating at small community travellers rest type stop overs. More & more joining the throng but less places to enjoy.
In the future it will probably all end up in tears in the playground. Free camps in a bush setting stripped of vegetation by pyromaniacs etc etc.
The caravan parks in northern Australia all have full house signs out the front and people are being turned away. Where do the RV`s go? Councils need to provide more free or low cost camps around small towns so the buisness people in the towns get a share from the winter migration.
Councils listen to the greedy caravan park operators, who charge like scrub bulls. and have no camping signs placed everywhere. A good example of this is the Whitsunday council.
Caravans are still being built and sold, so we can expect more each year to head north for the winter.
The rubbish left at camps is more likly put their by the local louts having a big night out. I witness this at Ban Ban Springs a few years ago. The rubbish was picked up by Grey Nomads.
If people thought a little.
And did Maybe?? 2, 3, or maybe 4 days "free" camping.
Paying their way the other nights.
They MAY. Just level the playing field a bit.
ALL FREE. ALL the time. Yea. It's not a free world anymore.
That's loooong gone.
Just remember. EVERYTHING. Belongs to somebody.
It will catch up.
And you'll ALL end up paying everywhere.
OR not going...
Totally Self inflicted.
IF you can't afford to travel and pay your way,
Just maybe. some need to be doing something else.
Like basing a van in one spot. and paying your rent. But NO fuel costs.
Then on to another of your choice for a while.(coupla tredlies)
So forth. so on.
You'll still see different areas. without the full time travelling\towing costs.
It's the full on freeloaders that are causing the problem.
with the imports adding to it.
If things don't change soon.
They'll all be sorry.
Lotsa caravans. Lotsa people with no where to go
and no money to get there.
If you start a lifestyle.
You have to be realistic about it.
We're fairly economical. and when travelling with van for 3 or so months a yr.
We averaged $12\1400 a week. With no real extra's.
Just comfortable.
Vanning IS, really cheap.
Even paying your own way.
Depending on your financial level of.
People need to be sensible about it. and maybe.
have some left for their children.
-- Edited by macka17 on Friday 4th of August 2017 09:16:26 PM
-- Edited by macka17 on Saturday 5th of August 2017 04:09:23 PM
Totally agree Ubif, some of the free camps are totally being abused. The amount of people staying at Rocky Creek, Fletchers Creek, Babinda, Green Patch at Gordenvale and the Camps north of Townsville is creating ghetto style of living. North Queensland is experiencing another year of low rainfall. The permenant residents having strict water restrictions and Townsville huge costs to pump water from Burdekin Dam. All the while some campers want water for free. What is free.
The donation boxes sounds like a good idea. However, boxes at Lions Mountain Road, Wivenhoe Dam and now the one at Split Rock near Laura, are being robbed. Split Rock art site is likely to be closed to the public as once again people aren't paying or stealing the box.
Darmc
-- Edited by Darmc on Saturday 5th of August 2017 07:53:27 AM
We were at a camp last week with a donation box. Lots of people there n only saw a few people donatEd. One man openly said he had spent money in the town, therefore not donating. Free firewood, maintenance, toilets. Gee, we spent money in the town n surrounding area too But put money in the donation box. Disappointed in some.
I see! So it's locals who are destroying all the free camps and not contributing at the donations boxes.
Those damn locals! Although not the locals who set up and maintain the camps and, according to Phillipn, allow other locals to destroy them. Those locals are OK, I guess? And, of course, 99.99% of Grey Nomads are just wonderful people who never do anything wrong.
As I said in the previous thread on this subject: stop putting good camps in Wiki Camps.
Whilst Wiki Camps is not the sole cause of these issues it is a significant contributor to them. Every backpacker will have a mobile phone and a copy of Wiki Camps.
Expect to see more threads advising of camp closures.
Hi
I agree with Philipn in that many popular spots, in particularly near towns etc are visited by locals, as well as grey nomads, and sadly it is the locals leaving behind their rubbish a lot of the time.
I don't think any of us are nieve enough to think all Grey Nomads are saints but why do we all worry so much about the minority because I am sure "most" of us travellers(everyone, not just us old f...ts) do the right thing "most" of the time, including making donations when we feel it is warranted.
Reading some of these posts makes me feel there must be a lot of grey nomads feeling the load of being perfect "all" the time.
regards
Ian
-- Edited by Wanda on Saturday 5th of August 2017 12:46:27 PM
Do people (in general) have nice clean tidy homes.
Usually. and pay their way.
Then. As soon as "some" get into another cycle. IE Travelling.
Become completely different.
You keep your yard tidy, don't dump rubbish. empty out waste water.
Why is travelling so different.
No matter where you go. It belongs to someone nowadays.
Even the scrub. Or it is Nat, Park lands.
All needs some level of maint, which costs somebody's wages.
How'd you (The ones that do it) feel. if strangers kept, daily.
Stopping on your dirt. and leaving waste water. rubbish.
With no compensation or donation?.
Even the people that say. OK. You can stay here.
But please leave a few coins, havo pay wages and running costs
for a person. Crew. to clean up after the ones that don't.
SO. You insult them. By making a mess. leaving no donations.
and just p-ss off.
No wonder they close them.
It's not difficult to be perfect ''all'' of the time, it's called common sense, not all of us possess it.
Was yrs ago at "Devils Marbles" NT
we arrived there early, Lunch time. Short travel.
around 25 rigs came in.
NOT one stopped at or walked to the box on sign.
Next morn. ALL went out.
Again. Not one donated. and there were plenty of little brown bags to put it in.
Looks like it hasn't improved much hey.
Some expensive rigs too.
They just Straight out THIEVES.. STEALING.
Doesn't say much for the morality of a lot of travellers, does it.
Just the same as those "stealing" space and time from others at the 24'48hr stopovers. And some stay for a week or more.
It's a pity there can't be rules that a daily park inspector with camera. and compulsory ticket machine.
NO ticket. $175 Parking fine.in that rego plate.
That's fix a few. the law chases them up now.
I probably should have put this in response the other post in here about "disgusting behaviour", but they are linked somewhat.
Anyway, nothing about the way humans behave is likely to change, no matter how much frustration we vent! Human behaviours are innate and are definitely NOT age specific i.e. the offenders have an ingrained attitude that they won't (therefore can't) be educated out of.
A lack of consideration is found in many sectors, not just camp sites - a few of my favourites (!):
office kitchens & washrooms (left filthy, unlike theirs at home)
hotel guest rooms (left filthy if not wrecked)
littering in general (everywhere you look)
lit cigarette butts flicked from the car (the perfect firelighter)
refusal to recycle (just shove anything into any bin)
dumping in public places (best place to leave an old mattress)
dumping in someone else's skip/dumper (I'd love to catch 'em in the act!)
Most people keep their own home neat and clean because it BELONGS to them (often different behaviours in rental properties). Pity the offenders can't understand that a share of the environment also belongs to them and that there is a price to be paid for using it. As far as campers and other travellers go, it's entirely logical that the incidence of bad behaviour will increase as the numbers increase. It's a worldwide condition, nothing unique to Oz.
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Sunday 6th of August 2017 09:08:49 AM
-- Edited by SouthernComfort on Sunday 6th of August 2017 09:15:38 AM
Must be those Victorians at Waruma Dam
Where is waruma dam please
Waruma is close to Monto, Rocket
Sorry, but you can only post in here if you're over 14 y/o. Run along now...
NOW I know.
Often did wonder.
They apparently have good bass there in the comp's.
Just too far South of Australia for me hey.
Or was that Queensland. Chuckle.
Touchy mexican are you Tony spitting out yer dummy
I have travelled extensively over the last eight years, mostly free camping. I have rarely come across filthy people who do some of the things they are accused of.
The worst was at Rifle creek when a group of backpackers arrived. They seemed to think it OK to pee in the grass outside their car instead of walking across to the toilet. A few words were said.
Most free camps were quite clean. I can't say anything about the public toilets and showers as I don't use them. Have seen no evidence of cassettes being dumped inappropriately, few paper flowers etc.
Long stayers? They do no more damage than those pulling in for a night.
Social propaganda machine at work?
We are travelling the Nullarbor, currently at Fraser Range Free Camp, which now has a long drop toilet and dump point, phone and internet available, as it was at Baxter free camp last night.
At both these camps there are toilets, about 6 rubbish bins (big ones, with caged lids), but, still, there was a plethora of "snow" scattered around, empty bottles, broken glass, and various other bits of garbage, including an oil container, full of oil, obviously changed the oil and just left the dirty oil next to the rubbish bin.
As msg says, most of the rubbish is left by "overnighters", in my opinion from observation.
I do not believe that a person responsible enough to be active on this forum, would be the type of person to spread rubbish around
Unfortunately we are all tarred with the same brush
Hopefully all travelers will (one day in the future), connect the spreading of rubbish, lack of donations, and lack of spending money in the areas of the free camps, with the closing of the free camps