To be honest Jim I don't see the problem - just about every van I've seen has a similar arrangement. How do you think the wiring should be arranged?
Dave
Aus-Kiwi said
09:33 PM Dec 29, 2015
I guess aesthetically it could be in conduit sheathing and supported a little better ? The white wire could be supported by the blue and both supported by yellow ? The connectors could be better quality ? cant see if there's any resin or seal in wire connection ..
Hey Jim said
09:50 PM Dec 29, 2015
Hi Dave,
With respect. Sealed much the same as any motor vehicle on our roads.
As for vans the wiring should be in flex condute and taped and fixed with a margin for wheel travel where possible, (The Photo's don't do it justice) to protect all from flying stones as much as possible for one thing.
Get a small branch between one tyre and the frame and its all over red rover on your electric brakes. We had Hydrulic override brakes on the camper. Traveling at 60-70kmph it soon rips the hell out of unprotected wiring. You can't see dust covered sticks on these roads that we have been on. You will only find out when it to late.
I don't know if you do much, or any driving up in the North west, or any of our unsealed outback roads. We do offen.
The first trip we did in 2008 stripped out and then shorted out both our camper and car twice, till I fixed it myself.@ $500 per fix back then through an auto electrician, it soon adds up.
Happy travels Jim
Aus-Kiwi said
09:57 PM Dec 29, 2015
My old ex BP car trailer has pipe welded to frame for brakes and lights..
Hey Jim said
10:06 PM Dec 29, 2015
This Van will be getting a Stone stomper fitted before we go on and ungradered roads for a start. to protect our investment.
Jim
Tomcat said
10:59 PM Dec 29, 2015
Hello Jim My 2010 Jayco Sterling looks similar underneath the water tank sensor wires and joins on the tank after 5 years are rusty but besides that they still work. Although when the tanks are empty they still show 1 or 2 leds. The brakes still work I haven't done much off road.
D and D said
01:37 AM Dec 30, 2015
Hey Jim wrote:
Hi Dave,
With respect. Sealed much the same as any motor vehicle on our roads.
As for vans the wiring should be in flex condute and taped and fixed with a margin for wheel travel where possible, (The Photo's don't do it justice) to protect all from flying stones as much as possible for one thing.
Get a small branch between one tyre and the frame and its all over red rover on your electric brakes. We had Hydrulic override brakes on the camper. Traveling at 60-70kmph it soon rips the hell out of unprotected wiring. You can't see dust covered sticks on these roads that we have been on. You will only find out when it to late.
I don't know if you do much, or any driving up in the North west, or any of our unsealed outback roads. We do offen.
The first trip we did in 2008 stripped out and then shorted out both our camper and car twice, till I fixed it myself.@ $500 per fix back then through an auto electrician, it soon adds up.
Happy travels Jim
Jim, I was a little worried that my post would appear as criticism when that wasn't intended. I am genuinely interested in how things should be. We don't do a lot of off road travel but protecting the wiring is as important to me as anything else (I don't want to be under the van at some place in the middle of wup-wup trying to get the brakes to work). The wiring you have is far better than mine which is basically 2 wires twisted and soldered together and protected by some heat shrink and this is similar to a number of other vans I have seen. So if anyone has pics of a better arrangement I'd be interested in seeing them.
Regards
Dave
Dav4Cris said
09:05 AM Dec 30, 2015
I have to agree with everyone, our van and a lot of others that I have looked at are just like the photos. Saying that I do agree that the wiring should be done a lot better but what do expect from a mass produced van. I added extra flexible conduit to mine but I still have some wires hanging in the breeze. The actual brake manufactures should add protected access to the electric brakes, eg. flexible piping like a metal braided hose. Or a shield over the backing plate where your wires attach with flexible conduit from there so no wire are hanging in the breeze.
-- Edited by Dav4Cris on Wednesday 30th of December 2015 09:07:27 AM
Bruce and Bev said
10:11 AM Dec 30, 2015
Hi Jim. Ive never crawled under our van to check the whole thing (cause I don't have a creeper like you do lol). My water tanks have bash plates on them, but they didn't have one that covered the drain taps which obviously protrude. On our first trip east, in SA, a stone few up off the main road and when we reached the CP at Ceduna, all the water was gone as the stone had snapped off the tap. It took me the best part of a day to find a bung that would fit (after paying a mechanic $50 to come to the CP and remove what was left of the tap - it had snapped off almost cleanly on the exterior side). Havent replaced the bung - I can take it out with a spanner when I drain that tank.
I agree with you though about the exposed wiring on a safety item like brakes. Maybe you could fit a light weight aluminum bash plate over it, just held in with short self tappers to stop stone/stick damage????
Bruce and Bev said
10:13 AM Dec 30, 2015
Oh - and most of us aren't getting sick of you posting the pics of your new van - that's what this Forum is for. The people who made the unpleasant and personal comments about it on your previous posts obviously don't get that - and they're not much in the way of new posters here anyway !
Cupie said
10:52 AM Dec 30, 2015
Hi ..
The brake wiring on my 1999 Jayco is not much different to yours, if anything a bit worse (just taped over screwed electrical joiners) & I have had no trouble with it after all this time & some 200,000 km. But I don't do dirt.
I do have thin metal stone guards over the water tanks with clear water pipes. I painted the water pipes black & fitted my own water level gauge.
I view the mods and upgrades that I have done to my standard Van as one of the pleasures of caravanning. Perhaps for your own peace of mind, you could consider adopting the same mindset.
eg. "Look at all the things that I have done to improve my great value for money Van."
ps. Keep posting your concerns ( & upgrade solutions)
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 30th of December 2015 10:52:32 AM
Phil C said
02:07 PM Dec 30, 2015
Gday Jim..
You know I busted my butt as well making sure our van (now our home) was 100% on the money. Read my other post on your threads to see what happened.
As an ex electrician I would say they have done the minimal support for your brake setup, however I would put some neutral cure silastic over the exposed water tank level sensors, this will create both mechanical as well as electrical protection. The clear pipes pinched off by the sub-frame need re routing for sure, if you are handy with a screwdriver its probably a 10 minute job. Perhaps a visit to Bunnings and a few cable ties will strengthen the support for the brake cables if you are concerned. The connectors look OK and should serve the purpose.
When I was looking for a new caravan I had a number of opposition manufacturers tell me how bad Jayco is. From our perspective they have been more than helpful, honored all parts of their warantee and looked after us each time. Yes we had some glitches as well, but I made sure the ones I could fix got fixed, they got the hard ones.
You will find your Jayco to be comfortable and easy to live in. Take care and have a great 2016.
Cheers
Desert Dweller said
02:13 PM Dec 30, 2015
Looks like a standard connection to me, pretty much like ours & all other vans that I've looked under.
Woody2 said
07:03 PM Dec 30, 2015
G-day Jim. Please keep in going. If you don't share with others how do we newbes learn. Thats one reason we joined the forum. Look a lot comment less because of some personal comments made at times.
al said
07:34 PM Dec 30, 2015
IT still amazes me how so many people seem to think it's ok for theses manufactures to put out the crap they do.
How many on this post alone seem to think this rubbish is ok. Mine looks like that so its ok.
No wonder they won't change while people hand over their money no ???? asked.
Any way you look at these photos the work man ship is garbage. Would you except are new car with wires hanging down
or brake lines hanging waiting to get caught by the first bit of stuff sticking out of ground ??? No you would not. So why
accept this crap from caravan manufacturers. your paying more for a van than some cars.
Just my two cents worth.
AL
-- Edited by al on Wednesday 30th of December 2015 07:36:27 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
07:35 PM Dec 30, 2015
A strip of two pice electrical conduit sikoflexed to floor or tank will hold wires much better .
iana said
09:16 PM Dec 30, 2015
"Hey Jim" you just caused my body grief, thought I had better check my Jayco van out and if you can do it so can I and post a few pictures. But I don't have a concrete floor and I don't have a creeper, so it was an effort.
Inside the van apart from the kitchen draws being spaced a bit off and the cupboard doors being a bit out of alignment, nothing a screw driver can't fix, I found everything quite ship shape. I do have one major issue with our fold out table, that I have taken up with the dealers. But everything else looked pretty tidy.
Out side, I'm disappointed with the locks on the various (many) hatches, the keys have only one notch in them, otherwise they are blanks, poor security. I'll have to do a few tidy ups with the wiring here and there, but otherwise underneath was pretty good.
The Grey water tank plumbing has an issue, and as mine was probably one of the first off the production line, the issues are yet to be ironed out, but a position change of the dump valve will fix the kink in the drain hose.
The brake wiring is OK as far as integrity is concerned, but secured on the chassis and then just dropping down to the brake unit is not something I would do. When the suspension extends to maximum, i.e. a tyre change, the wiring will take a beating. I would prefer it to be attached to and follow the "Wishbone" so there is less movement and the wires will not be strained. A mod for me to do later.
I think your van was on a different production line, and I was pleasantly surprised.
So now I am recovering with a brandy, and waiting for my body to come together again. Don't know what I am moaning about, I have to do this at work!
Hey Jim said
06:45 AM Dec 31, 2015
iana wrote:
"Hey Jim" you just caused my body grief, thought I had better check my Jayco van out and if you can do it so can I and post a few pictures. But I don't have a concrete floor and I don't have a creeper, so it was an effort. Inside the van apart from the kitchen draws being spaced a bit off and the cupboard doors being a bit out of alignment, nothing a screw driver can't fix, I found everything quite ship shape. I do have one major issue with our fold out table, that I have taken up with the dealers. But everything else looked pretty tidy. Out side, I'm disappointed with the locks on the various (many) hatches, the keys have only one notch in them, otherwise they are blanks, poor security. I'll have to do a few tidy ups with the wiring here and there, but otherwise underneath was pretty good. The Grey water tank plumbing has an issue, and as mine was probably one of the first off the production line, the issues are yet to be ironed out, but a position change of the dump valve will fix the kink in the drain hose. The brake wiring is OK as far as integrity is concerned, but secured on the chassis and then just dropping down to the brake unit is not something I would do. When the suspension extends to maximum, i.e. a tyre change, the wiring will take a beating. I would prefer it to be attached to and follow the "Wishbone" so there is less movement and the wires will not be strained. A mod for me to do later. I think your van was on a different production line, and I was pleasantly surprised. So now I am recovering with a brandy, and waiting for my body to come together again. Don't know what I am moaning about, I have to do this at work!
Hi Ian, and everyone.
A big thankyou to each and everyone of you. I have come back from hiding under the bed and the only way forward is to get on with it, in earnest. I will leave the must's to Jayco as well for warranty reasons.
The rest I will do myself. I feel Very Very sorry for the folks that can't do the fixers, that need fixing by themselves. They are at the mercy of these manufactures.
When I do get this van back to Jayco My CREEPER WILL BE COMING WITH ME. When they say she's ready to go so will I. Back under the van before I turn the key. Plus the camera. No more crap!
Regards Jim & Lambie
brickies said
08:05 AM Dec 31, 2015
Good idea Jim and once they have the caravan don't take it back home till you are happy all is fixed , Kept in mind there is a standard which the industry go by , A mate of mine was a building inspector and got himself in a lot of trouble because wanted a certain standard , He was told by the government bosses he must accept the standard of the day , Now do we know if the caravan industry has a common standard anyway . But you must try to get what you want but I wonder if you had a creeper at a caravan show and got under one of there display caravans would it be any better than the caravan they presented you with . Good luck
dirvine said
10:50 AM Dec 31, 2015
I must say I am amazed at the "acceptance" of poor quality some people on this forum accept. Given the cost of these items, one should expect them to be fit for purpose, and not just rely on users to find the poor quality and other issues. Just imagine if that was the view of car manufacturers. I am considering purchasing new as then I know (or thought I did until these issues) the unit would be well built and there would be a guarantee. It has alerted me to the simple strategy that I will not allow the purchase and pick up time to be critical to when I wish to start a trip. Whilst new to caravan/camper trailer tripping, I will certainly make sure I collect my unit in the morning so I have a long time to check everything out. Like a lot here I am rather handy in fixing things if need be, but I will not be taking delivery if I dont think things are up to spec. For example recently I went and looked at an 2nd hand Ultimate Camper. I made the owner put up all the annexes etc and connect 12V and 240V. I then went through and started to check everything. After 3 hours, I think he was a bit "pissed" off when I found at least 17 items that I thought were damaged/not working/faulty/needed replacing almost immediately. Ie badly damaged tyres, gas bottles more than 10 years old, cracked lpg flexible hosing, self ignighter on stove not working, small tears in the canvas and mesh windows. Ok it was 2nd hand , but given the asking price was $47,000, I estimated that just in replacement parts, it would be a good $2500. When I asked if he would consider $42,000, he just laughed. So I walked. I note it still has not sold. My thoughts to anybody is do not part with any money, other than the deposit, until you have or have had an "expert" look over the unit in its fully assembled state. I just cannot and will not accept that poor quality is the norm for camper/caravan manufacturers. Especially if they are asking top price because they are Aussie made. It just does not make sense to me.
brickies said
11:04 AM Dec 31, 2015
David you are so right good post , I think a lot of people accept what Jayco present because of the cost is a lot cheaper than other makers , It is the same with furniture and carpets , You have AMART good price but not very comfortable but good price , So in most cases you get what you pay for , So when looking to buy a new caravan have a look under the caravan and inside out to judge if it the standard you want , Then if it not make sure you get that standard .
Dav4Cris said
11:50 AM Dec 31, 2015
I think you will find that there are many people out there that just have no idea of what should be right and what is unacceptable as far as mechanical is concerned. Yes there are a lot of people on this forum that are in the know and this helps the others but when most people buy a new van for their big lap they just dont know to look hard at what they are being given. This is where we need more private caravan inspectors to at a cost go and look over the van with you or prior to your pick up. If the van is not acceptable then they tell dealer to fix before delivery. We used have the NRMA come out and precheck our New and Used cars prior to delivery. If the cars was not right then the owner did not take delivery of vehicle until it was right. This now costs $300+ for each inspection but this service is what is needed for Caravans, Motorhomes and to a extent campers.
But because the caravan industry has run the way it has for so long, it will be hard to get any of the big motoring organisations to put on caravan and motorhome inspectors to bring the industry up to a better standard, as its only a caravan.
brickies said
12:23 PM Dec 31, 2015
A mate of mine got a bloke that services caravan at a cost to that when he brought his
Phil C said
01:37 PM Dec 31, 2015
Gday again,
This is an interesting thread and should keep going if folks can be sensible in the way they answer or comment.
Im not sure I can agree with everyone when they state Jayco and other "cheaper" vans have serious issues. I am aware that ALL manufacturers short cut quality control and as far as Jayco is concerned they have a quick look to see if everything is going to be OK. Take a look at a youtube on Jayco Melbourne factory, they employ "quality gate" system, this means a van should not progress to the next step unless an inspector OR the operator has checked the work. OK this can lead to boo boos because of production schedule pressure etc.
I am still convinced that not too many Australian manufacturers are that switched on by quality. After I left the RAAF I was a quality tech for British Aerospace Australia, the level of military quality control was astounding as EVERYTHING was double checked (an overkill for what we are talking about). I looked at a "Traveller" caravan when I was at the last caravan show, now these are meant to be top of the pile on price and quality. Sorry to say I looked in the front boot and electrical areas, pretty much the same as what Jim has shown us, so Jayco slamming should probably be re pointed to the whole caravan industry.
As I have said before, we, the customers, are the quality inspectors. In Jaycos defense, they fix any issues quickly (if its a safety problem) with care and courtesy.
Happy new year folks, hot as hell down here tomorrow, but my Jayco can take it... lol
Bruce and Bev said
03:20 PM Dec 31, 2015
great to see the "knockers" of Jims posts haven't had a go on this thread (yet) - hopefully they will crawl back on their rock.
I agree with all the comments above - its not just Jayco who turn out poor products for the price they are sold at - new houses are another example with doors that wont shut, cracks in exterior walls so big that you can see light through them, roofs that leak, plumbing and lighting which doesn't work or installed in wrong places - sadly many Australian (lets not say all....fingers crossed that's theres still some people who do take pride in what they make or service) companies turn out junk, with no regard for their customers.
They all share the same trait - sub-standard - hopefully the buyer will be complacent and not complain and they've got away with it and saved money with unskilled/semi skilled labour, poor quality build and inspection practices, cheap products and drag their feet with warranty work. I suspect only a minority of buyers take them to task and that's why Jim is to be patted on the back for taking his 'van manufacturer (which just happens to be Jayco) to task.
DMaxer said
07:17 PM Dec 31, 2015
Bruce, if you are going to bully people try and get the terminology correct. It "under their rocks" not "on their rocks.
I imagine you would be a real fun guy at happy hour, especially after a few drinks and someone had the temerity to disagree with you.
Is your obsession with consumer affairs some sort of New Zealand thing?
-- Edited by DMaxer on Friday 1st of January 2016 05:33:34 PM
the rocket said
10:28 AM Jan 1, 2016
Heyjim, thanks for your post. Over 1,000 people looked but only 26 contibuted to it.
dogbox said
10:31 PM Jan 1, 2016
jim has bought a new caravan all caravans will potentially have a few issues a lot of people are following jims "journey" with dealing with his issues hopefully we will hear how these issues are dealt with by the dealer/jayco the fact that thousands of people are following his threads may help his cause unfortunately with this forum posts tend to get buried on 2nd 3rd ect page an die a natural death unless you put the effort in to go look for them which take them of the radar so to speak hopefully he will post again an let us know his progress
Baz421 said
10:35 PM Jan 1, 2016
the rocket wrote:
Heyjim, thanks for your post. Over 1,000 people looked but only 26 contibuted to it.
Many are from overseas so probably don't even know the issues from the Oz perspective.
Brake wires exposed and floating about,
Dave
Hi Dave,
With respect. Sealed much the same as any motor vehicle on our roads.
As for vans the wiring should be in flex condute and taped and fixed with a margin for wheel travel where possible, (The Photo's don't do it justice) to protect all from flying stones as much as possible for one thing.
Get a small branch between one tyre and the frame and its all over red rover on your electric brakes. We had Hydrulic override brakes on the camper. Traveling at 60-70kmph it soon rips the hell out of unprotected wiring. You can't see dust covered sticks on these roads that we have been on. You will only find out when it to late.
I don't know if you do much, or any driving up in the North west, or any of our unsealed outback roads. We do offen.
The first trip we did in 2008 stripped out and then shorted out both our camper and car twice, till I fixed it myself.@ $500 per fix back then through an auto electrician, it soon adds up.
Happy travels Jim
This Van will be getting a Stone stomper fitted before we go on and ungradered roads for a start. to protect our investment.
Jim
Hello Jim My 2010 Jayco Sterling looks similar underneath the water tank sensor wires and joins on the tank after 5 years are rusty but besides that they still work. Although when the tanks are empty they still show 1 or 2 leds. The brakes still work I haven't done much off road.
I have to agree with everyone, our van and a lot of others that I have looked at are just like the photos. Saying that I do agree that the wiring should be done a lot better but what do expect from a mass produced van. I added extra flexible conduit to mine but I still have some wires hanging in the breeze. The actual brake manufactures should add protected access to the electric brakes, eg. flexible piping like a metal braided hose. Or a shield over the backing plate where your wires attach with flexible conduit from there so no wire are hanging in the breeze.
-- Edited by Dav4Cris on Wednesday 30th of December 2015 09:07:27 AM
I agree with you though about the exposed wiring on a safety item like brakes. Maybe you could fit a light weight aluminum bash plate over it, just held in with short self tappers to stop stone/stick damage????
Hi ..
The brake wiring on my 1999 Jayco is not much different to yours, if anything a bit worse (just taped over screwed electrical joiners) & I have had no trouble with it after all this time & some 200,000 km. But I don't do dirt.
I do have thin metal stone guards over the water tanks with clear water pipes. I painted the water pipes black & fitted my own water level gauge.
I view the mods and upgrades that I have done to my standard Van as one of the pleasures of caravanning. Perhaps for your own peace of mind, you could consider adopting the same mindset.
eg. "Look at all the things that I have done to improve my great value for money Van."
ps. Keep posting your concerns ( & upgrade solutions)
-- Edited by Cupie on Wednesday 30th of December 2015 10:52:32 AM
You know I busted my butt as well making sure our van (now our home) was 100% on the money. Read my other post on your threads to see what happened.
As an ex electrician I would say they have done the minimal support for your brake setup, however I would put some neutral cure silastic over the exposed water tank level sensors, this will create both mechanical as well as electrical protection. The clear pipes pinched off by the sub-frame need re routing for sure, if you are handy with a screwdriver its probably a 10 minute job. Perhaps a visit to Bunnings and a few cable ties will strengthen the support for the brake cables if you are concerned. The connectors look OK and should serve the purpose.
When I was looking for a new caravan I had a number of opposition manufacturers tell me how bad Jayco is. From our perspective they have been more than helpful, honored all parts of their warantee and looked after us each time. Yes we had some glitches as well, but I made sure the ones I could fix got fixed, they got the hard ones.
You will find your Jayco to be comfortable and easy to live in. Take care and have a great 2016.
Cheers
IT still amazes me how so many people seem to think it's ok for theses manufactures to put out the crap they do.
How many on this post alone seem to think this rubbish is ok. Mine looks like that so its ok.
No wonder they won't change while people hand over their money no ???? asked.
Any way you look at these photos the work man ship is garbage. Would you except are new car with wires hanging down
or brake lines hanging waiting to get caught by the first bit of stuff sticking out of ground ??? No you would not. So why
accept this crap from caravan manufacturers. your paying more for a van than some cars.
Just my two cents worth.
AL
-- Edited by al on Wednesday 30th of December 2015 07:36:27 PM
Inside the van apart from the kitchen draws being spaced a bit off and the cupboard doors being a bit out of alignment, nothing a screw driver can't fix, I found everything quite ship shape. I do have one major issue with our fold out table, that I have taken up with the dealers. But everything else looked pretty tidy.
Out side, I'm disappointed with the locks on the various (many) hatches, the keys have only one notch in them, otherwise they are blanks, poor security. I'll have to do a few tidy ups with the wiring here and there, but otherwise underneath was pretty good.
The Grey water tank plumbing has an issue, and as mine was probably one of the first off the production line, the issues are yet to be ironed out, but a position change of the dump valve will fix the kink in the drain hose.
The brake wiring is OK as far as integrity is concerned, but secured on the chassis and then just dropping down to the brake unit is not something I would do. When the suspension extends to maximum, i.e. a tyre change, the wiring will take a beating. I would prefer it to be attached to and follow the "Wishbone" so there is less movement and the wires will not be strained. A mod for me to do later.
I think your van was on a different production line, and I was pleasantly surprised.
So now I am recovering with a brandy, and waiting for my body to come together again. Don't know what I am moaning about, I have to do this at work!
Hi Ian, and everyone.
A big thankyou to each and everyone of you. I have come back from hiding under the bed and the only way forward is to get on with it, in earnest. I will leave the must's to Jayco as well for warranty reasons.
The rest I will do myself. I feel Very Very sorry for the folks that can't do the fixers, that need fixing by themselves. They are at the mercy of these manufactures.
When I do get this van back to Jayco My CREEPER WILL BE COMING WITH ME. When they say she's ready to go so will I. Back under the van before I turn the key. Plus the camera. No more crap!
Regards Jim & Lambie
But because the caravan industry has run the way it has for so long, it will be hard to get any of the big motoring organisations to put on caravan and motorhome inspectors to bring the industry up to a better standard, as its only a caravan.
This is an interesting thread and should keep going if folks can be sensible in the way they answer or comment.
Im not sure I can agree with everyone when they state Jayco and other "cheaper" vans have serious issues. I am aware that ALL manufacturers short cut quality control and as far as Jayco is concerned they have a quick look to see if everything is going to be OK. Take a look at a youtube on Jayco Melbourne factory, they employ "quality gate" system, this means a van should not progress to the next step unless an inspector OR the operator has checked the work. OK this can lead to boo boos because of production schedule pressure etc.
I am still convinced that not too many Australian manufacturers are that switched on by quality. After I left the RAAF I was a quality tech for British Aerospace Australia, the level of military quality control was astounding as EVERYTHING was double checked (an overkill for what we are talking about). I looked at a "Traveller" caravan when I was at the last caravan show, now these are meant to be top of the pile on price and quality. Sorry to say I looked in the front boot and electrical areas, pretty much the same as what Jim has shown us, so Jayco slamming should probably be re pointed to the whole caravan industry.
As I have said before, we, the customers, are the quality inspectors. In Jaycos defense, they fix any issues quickly (if its a safety problem) with care and courtesy.
Happy new year folks, hot as hell down here tomorrow, but my Jayco can take it... lol
I agree with all the comments above - its not just Jayco who turn out poor products for the price they are sold at - new houses are another example with doors that wont shut, cracks in exterior walls so big that you can see light through them, roofs that leak, plumbing and lighting which doesn't work or installed in wrong places - sadly many Australian (lets not say all....fingers crossed that's theres still some people who do take pride in what they make or service) companies turn out junk, with no regard for their customers.
They all share the same trait - sub-standard - hopefully the buyer will be complacent and not complain and they've got away with it and saved money with unskilled/semi skilled labour, poor quality build and inspection practices, cheap products and drag their feet with warranty work. I suspect only a minority of buyers take them to task and that's why Jim is to be patted on the back for taking his 'van manufacturer (which just happens to be Jayco) to task.
Bruce, if you are going to bully people try and get the terminology correct. It "under their rocks" not "on their rocks.
I imagine you would be a real fun guy at happy hour, especially after a few drinks and someone had the temerity to disagree with you.
Is your obsession with consumer affairs some sort of New Zealand thing?
-- Edited by DMaxer on Friday 1st of January 2016 05:33:34 PM
Heyjim, thanks for your post. Over 1,000 people looked but only 26 contibuted to it.
Many are from overseas so probably don't even know the issues from the Oz perspective.