I hope I am not out of order with this comment but, after watching to-nights news with the vision repeated over and over I am a bit stunned. While I feel very sad and sorry for all the people that have lost their homes in the fires in Vic, seeing all those places with bush and trees growing right up to their front and back doors makes me wonder. I am trying to be tackfull but, I wouldn't set off on a 100 Km drive with enough fuel for 50 Kms.
I expect some flack, but that's life.
Simmo.
Desert Dweller said
05:27 AM Dec 27, 2015
Why should we be feeling sorry for the ones that didn't have their properties insured? They knew the risks, so be it.
Happywanderer said
08:39 AM Dec 27, 2015
l feel sorry for them all regardless. But that's just me, I'm like that.
In other words, regardIess of the overgrowth near their properties, not having insurance which Ive heard nothing of yet or whether they only had fuel for 50ks to go 100ks, I know the area well and I feel for them all.
Just watching your home go up in flames is heartwrenching enough.
Thats being tactful.
Moorey said
11:11 AM Dec 27, 2015
Hi all
I normally sit back, read and keep judgement to myself. Any loss of property to a fire that cannot be controlled is traumatic to the occupants and it is also weighs heavy on the attending emergency services both permanent and volunteers. I served as a front line fire officer in a Metropolitan Brigade down south for 21 years and attended large bush fires in Sydney, Regional N.S.W. and the A.C.T. If you have a home under mortgage most banks and lenders require up to date insurance on that property, therefore you do not require a handout except for counseling and essentials to assist you through the immediate period. Some residents will require extended counseling and should be assisted.
If you do not have a mortgage and own your home then you should be able to afford to pay insurance and therefore do not require assistance. These homes are built in an area with surrounding flammable bushes and trees butting up to and in some cases overhanging residences. This is a beautiful life style and a wonderful setting, but it also has its dangers and the occupants are aware of these shortcomings in the event of a fire. As is your right the lifestyle and surrounding landscaping is your choice, trees or no trees. SEASONAL BACK BURN OR NO BACK BURN. The money raised after these tragedies should be used to assist local services to repair and improve for the betterment of the whole community along with immediate assistance for those affected.
There are a number of people who may have genuine personal reasons for not having up to date insurance and these claims should be looked at on an individual basis.
David
Bruce and Bev said
11:13 AM Dec 27, 2015
I agree with you Simmo. How many years now have the fire authorities banged on and spent millions on TV adverts about being fire aware and safe in areas like this.
In the WA hills - just out of Perth city, there are still hundreds of houses that are surrounded by thick bush and in gullies, just waiting for a spark.
If you want to live in dry bush, then be prepared for the consequences if you don't cut back the bush from your homes and be fire ready.
brickies said
11:23 AM Dec 27, 2015
Should people be allowed to build in fire traps , When traveling always kept a sharp on mother nature and if I don't like what I am seeing I retreat to somewhere safe , On the news I seen caravan still in the caravan park with fire in the back ground and lest they can take their home to safety , These home will be rebuilt in the same place so it can happen again .
rockylizard said
12:29 PM Dec 27, 2015
Gday...
Whether people are 'allowed' to build in any area, and whether they have been 'wise' in how much bush is close to (surrounds) their home, is moot.
All State governments are moving toward firstly declaring "bush fire prone areas" and then developing legislation/regulations that will reduce the potential of the loss of properties (and life) in the event of bushfire.
However, the declaration of a "bush fire prone area" is usually determined by a 'fire event' in the recent past and many areas are yet to be so declared. Additionally, the new regulations apply only to the re-building of home/s destroyed in a fire - and, obviously, new developments. Existing homes and those not burnt out in a fire event can only be 'encouraged' by local and State governments to clean up around their properties to assist the survival of their home - and perhaps themselves - from bushfire.
If an area where people have built hasn't suffered a bush fire for decades, human nature is complacent. You can be assured that every home owner in and around the Great Ocean Road, Otway Ranges and living in areas from Geelong to Warrnambool and up to the Princes Highway to the north will be very alert and, at least for the foreseeable future, taking extra care to ensure they are less likely to be affected by a potential bush/wild fire.
I agree that every home owner should have building insurance - including coverage for fire and flood. However, just like so many car/caravan owners, there are still those who do not see the point of paying thousands of dollars over extended periods when they have never made a claim. Add to that the feeling that insurance companies are always trying to 'duck out of claims' and many folk are reticent. How many have had effective life insurance all their lives?
Despite all the various and almost endless feelings that are aroused by the incidents on Christmas day in the Wye River area of Victoria, there should be empathy for those that have suffered and lost, in some cases, all they own. Perhaps, it could be ourselves who could be caught in circumstances that leave us bereft.
Cheers - hope you all had a pleasant and safe Christmas and that 2016 brings you health and good fortune - John
Izabarack said
12:50 PM Dec 27, 2015
I take it some are talking about information from local news in Victoria. Why the discussion about insurance, fund raising, and how much petrol in one's tank?
But to pick up on insurance cover comments, latest DVA newsletter says 25% of homes are uninsured.
Iza
Phillipn said
10:17 PM Dec 27, 2015
brickies wrote:
Should people be allowed to build in fire traps , When traveling always kept a sharp on mother nature and if I don't like what I am seeing I retreat to somewhere safe , On the news I seen caravan still in the caravan park with fire in the back ground and lest they can take their home to safety , These home will be rebuilt in the same place so it can happen again .
If one lays in the centre of a highway, you will get run over. Build a house in an area where their are lots of large trees, you will get burnt out.
I often wonder why insurance companies insure houses in the middle of the bush.
Who pays? A: We do, as the insurance companies charge us more for insurance.
navynurse said
09:12 AM Dec 28, 2015
I had a mate built a new house in Vic a number of years ago. At that time he had to get special permission to remove trees from his property.
He had to prove that the house couldn't be built without them being removed and if the tree was 1 m from the house the tree stayed.
As a result he was burnt out when fires came calling, He always blamed the greens and rebuilt after he bulldozed the scrub back (only the dead burnt trees) for about 50 m.
The council wanted to fine him for clearing but couldn't prove the trees weren't dead so it was eventually dropped.
The rules may have changed but that may be why the trees are so close to the houses.
Allan
Phillipn said
09:48 AM Dec 28, 2015
navynurse wrote:
I had a mate built a new house in Vic a number of years ago. At that time he had to get special permission to remove trees from his property. He had to prove that the house couldn't be built without them being removed and if the tree was 1 m from the house the tree stayed. As a result he was burnt out when fires came calling, He always blamed the greens and rebuilt after he bulldozed the scrub back (only the dead burnt trees) for about 50 m. The council wanted to fine him for clearing but couldn't prove the trees weren't dead so it was eventually dropped.
The rules may have changed but that may be why the trees are so close to the houses.
Allan
Alan, it proves that the "powers to be and the greenies" are bloody idiots
The Phantom said
09:53 AM Dec 28, 2015
Can you just hold this thread for a few minutes.
I need to get my great, big hobnail boots (do you remember that song) on so I can kick a few Victorians while they are down.
The Phantom
Phillipn said
10:00 AM Dec 28, 2015
The Phantom wrote:
Can you just hold this thread for a few minutes.
I need to get my great, big hobnail boots (do you remember that song) on so I can kick a few Victorians while they are down.
The Phantom
I didn`t know you are from Victoria, my statement applies to the whole country.
rockylizard said
10:42 AM Dec 28, 2015
Gday...
As I said before - Despite all the various and almost endless feelings that are aroused by the incidents on Christmas day in the Wye River area of Victoria, there should be empathy for those that have suffered and lost, in some cases, all they own. Perhaps, it could be ourselves who could be caught in circumstances that leave us bereft.
Cheers - John
Young Simmo said
11:02 AM Dec 28, 2015
The old saying is start at the top, not sure what I mean there but, I did hear on the news last night that the bloke who locked the 8 year old boy in a shed for weeks got bashed up in in prison.
Simmo,
Happywanderer said
11:38 AM Dec 28, 2015
Young Simmo wrote:
The old saying is start at the top, not sure what I mean there but, I did hear on the news last night that the bloke who locked the 8 year old boy in a shed for weeks got bashed up in in prison. Simmo,
Now that is great news.
brickies said
12:17 PM Dec 28, 2015
Drink drivers get fined for driving while over the limit because they can kill people , Live in thick forest bush fire can kill you , Should we do something to stop people putting their live at risk .
Plain Truth said
07:36 PM Dec 28, 2015
brickies wrote:
Drink drivers get fined for driving while over the limit because they can kill people , Live in thick forest bush fire can kill you , Should we do something to stop people putting their live at risk .
So what you are saying,is don't live in bushfire areas because you may put your life at risk.the came be said,. don't live in flood prone areas.Like lots of areas in Qld.you are putting your life at risk. Come on I can't believe what i am reading here.
Young Simmo said
07:52 PM Dec 28, 2015
Plain Truth, most Station and Farm houses are on high parts of flood areas. If you have bush up to your front door, it doesn't matter how high you are. They are different kettles of fish, as with a flood you might recover 50% to 80% of your possessions, depending on whether it is a Foot (30cm) of water or all over the roof. With a fire it is total. Sorry for stating the obvious!
Simmo.
Plain Truth said
07:57 PM Dec 28, 2015
Young Simmo wrote:
Plain Truth, most Station and Farm houses are on high parts of flood areas. If you have bush up to your front door, it doesn't matter how high you are. They are different kettles of fish, as with a flood you might recover 50% to 80% of your possessions, depending on whether it is a Foot (30cm) of water or all over the roof. With a fire it is total. Sorry for stating the obvious! Simmo.
What about Lockyer Valley,Just stating the obvious
brickies said
08:25 PM Dec 28, 2015
And they have shifted the township to higher grounds , And also in Brisbane the council is buying back flood prone homes in some areas , I have spent my working life trying to protect people from themselves .
Plain Truth said
08:49 PM Dec 28, 2015
brickies wrote:
And they have shifted the township to higher grounds , And also in Brisbane the council is buying back flood prone homes in some areas , I have spent my working life trying to protect people from themselves .
Brickies,you are quite right,we have to protect people from themselves ,and from from people who take advantage of those who are less able to look after themselves.So the council must do more to help those in fire prone areas,as they are doing in flood prone areas in Qld.
No one wants to see live and homes lost in bush fires,and floods. but for god's sake Simmo could show a bit of compassion.
OR AM I WRONG????
Cooper12 said
09:04 PM Dec 28, 2015
I heard yesterday from a fire controller (?) on the news that some of the area burnt in Vic has not had a fire in it for "decades". What ever happened to the conducting of prescribed (controlled) burns to reduce fuel loads?
brickies said
09:44 PM Dec 28, 2015
It is what should happen Cooper 12 they do this in south east Queensland pine forest , They drop table ball size fire bombs onto the forest floor from the air at the right time of the year , This reduces the fire load on the floor and has work very well over the years , I don't think it wise to build homes in the forest , Good wide fire track are needed between forest and housing and well maintained .
Moorey said
09:54 PM Dec 28, 2015
Hi brickies
I am sure you would have noticed the decline in operational deployment of volunteer and permanent brigades for hazard reduction burn offs. These changes are normally made by government agencies who do not have to respond to bush fires and in some cases I don't think they would know what a fire truck looked like. Hug the trees!!!!!!!!.
Cooper12 said
10:03 PM Dec 28, 2015
Yes, I helped in some of the early research into the effect of controlled burning of exotic pine plantations in Queensland. Litter loads, rate of spread and wood quality were examined.
brickies said
10:15 PM Dec 28, 2015
Some time too little action at the first sign of fire , That when the air attack should start when you have a small fire , But it is all about money we send Volunteer in first they don't cost money , And when it's out of control we send in the air attack they are good but at that stage not much they can do . The people that pull the strings are not Fire Fighter but by the people who Moorey has pointed to who sit in a room in the capital city well away from the Fire ground .
Young Simmo said
11:39 PM Dec 28, 2015
Plain Truth wrote:
brickies wrote:
And they have shifted the township to higher grounds , And also in Brisbane the council is buying back flood prone homes in some areas , I have spent my working life trying to protect people from themselves .
Brickies,you are quite right,we have to protect people from themselves ,and from from people who take advantage of those who are less able to look after themselves.So the council must do more to help those in fire prone areas,as they are doing in flood prone areas in Qld.
No one wants to see live and homes lost in bush fires,and floods. but for god's sake Simmo could show a bit of compassion.
OR AM I WRONG????
Plain Truth, if you look at my original post at the top of this page, I tried to be tackfull but also broach a subject that is screaming for some intelligent comment.
Sorry mate but I live in the real world, you should try it.
We went through the Gascoyne Flood 18th Dec 2010 with 5 foot of water through our place, so I have been there, done that to a certain degree. I still reckon a gum tree 20 foot from the front door is not the best way to go. You go your way, and I'll go my way.
Simmo.
sandsmere said
07:43 AM Dec 29, 2015
Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to live in a flood area Simmo!!!!!
jonathan said
07:56 AM Dec 29, 2015
.. How does one legislate against stupidity ? .. it's like wearing a dustcoat in the rain .. (Rainman told me so) .. hehe !
I hope I am not out of order with this comment but, after watching to-nights news with the vision repeated over and over I am a bit stunned. While I feel very sad and sorry for all the people that have lost their homes in the fires in Vic, seeing all those places with bush and trees growing right up to their front and back doors makes me wonder. I am trying to be tackfull but, I wouldn't set off on a 100 Km drive with enough fuel for 50 Kms.
I expect some flack, but that's life.
Simmo.
In other words, regardIess of the overgrowth near their properties, not having insurance which Ive heard nothing of yet or whether they only had fuel for 50ks to go 100ks, I know the area well and I feel for them all.
Just watching your home go up in flames is heartwrenching enough.
Thats being tactful.
I normally sit back, read and keep judgement to myself. Any loss of property to a fire that cannot be controlled is traumatic to the occupants and it is also weighs heavy on the attending emergency services both permanent and volunteers. I served as a front line fire officer in a Metropolitan Brigade down south for 21 years and attended large bush fires in Sydney, Regional N.S.W. and the A.C.T. If you have a home under mortgage most banks and lenders require up to date insurance on that property, therefore you do not require a handout except for counseling and essentials to assist you through the immediate period. Some residents will require extended counseling and should be assisted.
If you do not have a mortgage and own your home then you should be able to afford to pay insurance and therefore do not require assistance. These homes are built in an area with surrounding flammable bushes and trees butting up to and in some cases overhanging residences. This is a beautiful life style and a wonderful setting, but it also has its dangers and the occupants are aware of these shortcomings in the event of a fire. As is your right the lifestyle and surrounding landscaping is your choice, trees or no trees. SEASONAL BACK BURN OR NO BACK BURN. The money raised after these tragedies should be used to assist local services to repair and improve for the betterment of the whole community along with immediate assistance for those affected.
There are a number of people who may have genuine personal reasons for not having up to date insurance and these claims should be looked at on an individual basis.
David
In the WA hills - just out of Perth city, there are still hundreds of houses that are surrounded by thick bush and in gullies, just waiting for a spark.
If you want to live in dry bush, then be prepared for the consequences if you don't cut back the bush from your homes and be fire ready.
Gday...
Whether people are 'allowed' to build in any area, and whether they have been 'wise' in how much bush is close to (surrounds) their home, is moot.
All State governments are moving toward firstly declaring "bush fire prone areas" and then developing legislation/regulations that will reduce the potential of the loss of properties (and life) in the event of bushfire.
However, the declaration of a "bush fire prone area" is usually determined by a 'fire event' in the recent past and many areas are yet to be so declared. Additionally, the new regulations apply only to the re-building of home/s destroyed in a fire - and, obviously, new developments. Existing homes and those not burnt out in a fire event can only be 'encouraged' by local and State governments to clean up around their properties to assist the survival of their home - and perhaps themselves - from bushfire.
Here are the efforts of all States -
VIC:
http://www.dtpli.vic.gov.au/planning/planning-and-building-for-bushfire-protection
http://www.dtpli.vic.gov.au/planning/planning-and-building-for-bushfire-protection/building-in-bushfire-prone-areas
http://builditbackgreen.org/media/9632126/18681918-guide-to-building-after-bushfires-.pdf
NSW:
http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/plan-and-prepare/building-in-a-bush-fire-area
SA:
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/housing-property-and-land/building-and-development/residential-building-regulations/safety-regulations-around-the-home/fire-safety-and-bushfire-regulations/building-and-development-requirements-for-bushfire-prone-areas/requirements-for-bushfire-risk-areas
WA:
https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/atoms/files/fact_sheet_building_in_bush_fire_areas.pdf
QLD:
https://www.qld.gov.au/emergency/safety/building-fire-prone.html
If an area where people have built hasn't suffered a bush fire for decades, human nature is complacent. You can be assured that every home owner in and around the Great Ocean Road, Otway Ranges and living in areas from Geelong to Warrnambool and up to the Princes Highway to the north will be very alert and, at least for the foreseeable future, taking extra care to ensure they are less likely to be affected by a potential bush/wild fire.
I agree that every home owner should have building insurance - including coverage for fire and flood. However, just like so many car/caravan owners, there are still those who do not see the point of paying thousands of dollars over extended periods when they have never made a claim. Add to that the feeling that insurance companies are always trying to 'duck out of claims' and many folk are reticent. How many have had effective life insurance all their lives?
Despite all the various and almost endless feelings that are aroused by the incidents on Christmas day in the Wye River area of Victoria, there should be empathy for those that have suffered and lost, in some cases, all they own. Perhaps, it could be ourselves who could be caught in circumstances that leave us bereft.
Cheers - hope you all had a pleasant and safe Christmas and that 2016 brings you health and good fortune - John
But to pick up on insurance cover comments, latest DVA newsletter says 25% of homes are uninsured.
Iza
If one lays in the centre of a highway, you will get run over. Build a house in an area where their are lots of large trees, you will get burnt out.
I often wonder why insurance companies insure houses in the middle of the bush.
Who pays? A: We do, as the insurance companies charge us more for insurance.
He had to prove that the house couldn't be built without them being removed and if the tree was 1 m from the house the tree stayed.
As a result he was burnt out when fires came calling, He always blamed the greens and rebuilt after he bulldozed the scrub back (only the dead burnt trees) for about 50 m.
The council wanted to fine him for clearing but couldn't prove the trees weren't dead so it was eventually dropped.
The rules may have changed but that may be why the trees are so close to the houses.
Allan
Alan, it proves that the "powers to be and the greenies" are bloody idiots
Can you just hold this thread for a few minutes.
I need to get my great, big hobnail boots (do you remember that song) on so I can kick a few Victorians while they are down.
The Phantom
I didn`t know you are from Victoria, my statement applies to the whole country.
Gday...
As I said before - Despite all the various and almost endless feelings that are aroused by the incidents on Christmas day in the Wye River area of Victoria, there should be empathy for those that have suffered and lost, in some cases, all they own. Perhaps, it could be ourselves who could be caught in circumstances that leave us bereft.
Cheers - John
Simmo,
Now that is great news.
So what you are saying,is don't live in bushfire areas because you may put your life at risk.the came be said,. don't live in flood prone areas.Like lots of areas in Qld.you are putting your life at risk. Come on I can't believe what i am reading here.
Simmo.
What about Lockyer Valley,Just stating the obvious
Brickies,you are quite right,we have to protect people from themselves ,and from from people who take advantage of those who are less able to look after themselves.So the council must do more to help those in fire prone areas,as they are doing in flood prone areas in Qld.
No one wants to see live and homes lost in bush fires,and floods. but for god's sake Simmo could show a bit of compassion.
OR AM I WRONG????
I heard yesterday from a fire controller (?) on the news that some of the area burnt in Vic has not had a fire in it for "decades". What ever happened to the conducting of prescribed (controlled) burns to reduce fuel loads?
I am sure you would have noticed the decline in operational deployment of volunteer and permanent brigades for hazard reduction burn offs. These changes are normally made by government agencies who do not have to respond to bush fires and in some cases I don't think they would know what a fire truck looked like. Hug the trees!!!!!!!!.
Yes, I helped in some of the early research into the effect of controlled burning of exotic pine plantations in Queensland. Litter loads, rate of spread and wood quality were examined.
Plain Truth, if you look at my original post at the top of this page, I tried to be tackfull but also broach a subject that is screaming for some intelligent comment.
Sorry mate but I live in the real world, you should try it.
We went through the Gascoyne Flood 18th Dec 2010 with 5 foot of water through our place, so I have been there, done that to a certain degree. I still reckon a gum tree 20 foot from the front door is not the best way to go. You go your way, and I'll go my way.
Simmo.
Perhaps you shouldn't be allowed to live in a flood area Simmo!!!!!
.. How does one legislate against stupidity ? .. it's like wearing a dustcoat in the rain .. (Rainman told me so) .. hehe !
Happy New Year all !!