Do you solder & shrink wrap or crimp electrical joins? I've done both over the years. A friend who was an auto-elec does both depending on the job. My van is a mixture of both too. Anyone have a preference? Variables seem to be exposure and wire (current) size.
Also, what is the black goo used to seal wire & plumbing beneath vans? Is it just black silastic or something else?
Vince said
12:47 PM Nov 18, 2015
My preference ...I solder and use heat shrink on all my 12v electrical connections.
Like my phone I like a good connection.
03_Troopy said
02:47 PM Nov 18, 2015
Generally, crimping makes a more mechanically sound joint in wiring in vehicles, and it is just as electrically sound as soldering. But it has to be done correctly and with the proper tools. Soldering irons in the hands of the inept are just a disaster.
In some situations though, like splicing a wire into an existing harness, it is easier to go with soldering, and if done correctly is quite OK. Dual wall (glue lined) heat shrink can be used can be used over either and is good for keeping out moisture.
Solder and heat shrink . Must say most electric wires to your house are crimped. With 12 ton crimping tools ..
patrol03 said
05:45 PM Nov 18, 2015
In the auto trade wiring is normally crimped with insulated connectors.Heat shrink will make a protective and neat covering.
Baz421 said
06:16 PM Nov 18, 2015
A general rule (before we invented Auto electricians) if the joint was FIXED (anchored securely) it could be soldered and if the joint was subject to movement/vibration (ie not supported) it should be crimped.
From experience (and from others on a very long thread here ages ago) soldered joints (like welds in steel that fail next to the weld) tend to fail at the edge of the solder run.
This rule has served me well since taught this in 1969 mechanics training in the RAAF.
03_Troopy said
06:52 PM Nov 18, 2015
patrol03 wrote:
In the auto trade wiring is normally crimped with insulated connectors.Heat shrink will make a protective and neat covering.
Unfortunately they tend to solder more than crimp, unless it's a termination, and I've seen the disastrous lol.
Cloak said
07:21 PM Nov 18, 2015
When I did the NASA course we were told that hand soldering was superior in every way to any other method of connection.
However we don't need to go to the moon so nowadays I use a very high quality crimp set and hardly ever solder any more.
Just saying...
ZCheers
03_Troopy said
07:55 PM Nov 18, 2015
Cloak wrote:
When I did the NASA course we were told that hand soldering was superior in every way to any other method of connection.
However we don't need to go to the moon so nowadays I use a very high quality crimp set and hardly ever solder any more.
Just saying...
ZCheers
I did the HRHS (High Reliability Hand Soldering) Instructors course back in about 1994, and the consensus at the time was that soldering was not appropriate for terminations and connections in wiring harnesses. That is why these days aircraft are about 99.9% crimped terminations. Mechanically more sound and more consistently reliable.
ST391GQ said
08:18 PM Nov 18, 2015
Well...I do both...when I,m around my workshop at home anyhow.
But out in the wilds....a really good quality ratchet crimper and decent terminals does the job for me. And while we are on the subject of soldering ...I have never had a soldered joint give any sort of trouble in 30 odd years of DIY and rattling around this great land. I might add that all joints are shrink wrapped with thick wall tube too.
Cheers Keith
dorian said
04:30 AM Nov 19, 2015
The Australian Wiring Rules prohibit tinning of wires before crimping. Apparently the joint becomes loose over time. My lecturer was responsible for the rule change.
03_Troopy said
08:08 AM Nov 19, 2015
Tinning wires before crimping, or before securing under screw down terminals, will always allow the joint to loosen with time because of the malleable properties of the solder. If you want to protect wires when using screw down terminals, use a crimped bootlace ferrule.
dorian said
08:50 AM Nov 19, 2015
What about first crimping the joint and then flowing solder into the crimp afterwards? Would that be OK? In fact that's what I do.
03_Troopy said
10:58 AM Nov 19, 2015
dorian wrote:
What about first crimping the joint and then flowing solder into the crimp afterwards? Would that be OK? In fact that's what I do.
Actually, you do see that sometimes in OEM vehicle wiring where they have light weight, open barrel crimps, on heavier wiring, especially in power wires. I have seen it mainly on fusible link wire terminations. And from memory, one of the Motor Body Builders Manuals we used says to do that on fusible link wiring. I'm not sure why though, maybe a belt and braces approach, and as long as the solder is only under the crimped section, and doesn't extend into the support section of the crimp, I can't see a problem. But with normal wiring using standard crimp terminations, and done with the correct tools, it isn't necessary and only introduces possibilities of a poor joint where the solder wicks up the wire past the support section of the crimp.
Edit: typo doh!
-- Edited by 03_Troopy on Thursday 19th of November 2015 11:27:58 AM
Hylife said
03:51 PM Nov 19, 2015
Depends on the connector type.
If it was for automotive use it will be most likely a crimp fitting. These should NOT be soldered. As has already been mentions the joint is less secure than crimping alone, IF, you use a proper crimping tool. If you just try and mangle the lugs together with some pliers it will be worse than just doing a twist tie joint.
If you are concerned with poor connections due to higher resistances (dry joints), then purchase a small tube of dielectric grease.
03_Troopy said
05:18 PM Nov 19, 2015
Hylife wrote:
Depends on the connector type.
If it was for automotive use it will be most likely a crimp fitting. These should NOT be soldered. As has already been mentions the joint is less secure than crimping alone, IF, you use a proper crimping tool. If you just try and mangle the lugs together with some pliers it will be worse than just doing a twist tie joint.
If you are concerned with poor connections due to higher resistances (dry joints), then purchase a small tube of dielectric grease.
Sorry, but dielectric grease does not improve connection conductance. By it's very nature, it is an insulating compound. It may be helpful for lubrication and keeping moisture out of connectors once they are done up, but is far more likely to attract impurities that will damage threads and sockets. And definitely don't put it on a wire before you crimp it.
Servisol Electrical Contact cleaner would be far better for using on connectors. It cleans the surface and leaves a thin film of light lubricant which is likely to attract debris.
Reading the OP is helpful when giving advice.
Edit: Actually I will give you a bit of lea-way on using it on a crimp connection. Provided the crimped connection is well formed with quality crimping tools, it is probably not so detrimental. Given that a properly formed crimp connection will have squeezed the grease out from between the metal surfaces anyway. It may also help to keep moisture from wicking into the wire, outside the crimp connector. Or you could just use dual wall heat shrink over the joint.
-- Edited by 03_Troopy on Thursday 19th of November 2015 06:00:44 PM
Phil C said
05:39 PM Nov 19, 2015
Cloak wrote:
When I did the NASA course we were told that hand soldering was superior in every way to any other method of connection.
However we don't need to go to the moon so nowadays I use a very high quality crimp set and hardly ever solder any more.
Just saying...
ZCheers
Yeah I did the same course, then Hi Reliability hand soldering much later. IF and only if a solder joint is made correctly it will last forever, as will a well made crimp joint.. for me I like crimps now days as the hands are shaky and the eyes dim. BTW I have forever been a fan of polyolofin heatshrink, beware of cheap imitations...
Cheers
-- Edited by Phil C on Thursday 19th of November 2015 05:44:09 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
10:38 PM Nov 19, 2015
Electrical compound grease is basically high graphite grease . Used in outside crimp joints to keep moisture out .,
Very important when crimping copper to alloy wire .. The sleeve or crimp is after friction welded to prevent corrosion..
There is a difference between 12v and 240 / 415 v also.. When solder is used on LV it de rates cable as it won't hold the heat..
Years back cables where bound at the ends .. But due to some live disconnections the bound wire caught in meter or switch causing an electrical flash.. Why do it under load ? PC correct way is to do away due to dumb asses..
Stereo systems are better soldered .. Nothing worse than a crackling speaker..
Boats or near salt water have different rules where tinned wire should be used..
I would say I have paid half my house off servicing houses with out supply on the coast..
New screw crimps where you tighten through insulation is much safer ..
03_Troopy said
10:52 AM Nov 20, 2015
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
1). Electrical compound grease is basically high graphite grease . Used in outside crimp joints to keep moisture out ., Very important when crimping copper to alloy wire .. The sleeve or crimp is after friction welded to prevent corrosion.. 2).There is a difference between 12v and 240 / 415 v also.. When solder is used on LV it de rates cable as it won't hold the heat.. 3). Years back cables where bound at the ends .. But due to some live disconnections the bound wire caught in meter or switch causing an electrical flash.. Why do it under load ? PC correct way is to do away due to dumb asses.. 4). Stereo systems are better soldered .. Nothing worse than a crackling speaker.. Boats or near salt water have different rules where tinned wire should be used.. I would say I have paid half my house off servicing houses with out supply on the coast.. 5). New screw crimps where you tighten through insulation is much safer ..
1). The grease mentioned was DIELECTRIC GREASE Which is usually silicon based, and is an insulator. It can break down and arc over on HV equipment though.
2). Soldered joints on LV is quite OK IF:
a) the joint is not used on lugs or similar for hight current mechanical connection. The reason is that if the mech connection loosens, the resultant heat from the high resistant connection may melt the solder.
b) Proper soldering techniques are used so that the joint is mechanically sound before the solder is applied, the solder joint is properly formed and the joint is not overheated.
3). I was working in a workshop about 4 years ago where they still bound 240V and 415V cables where they were secured by pad or sleeved screw down connections.
4). Not sure where abouts in your stereo system you're talking about, but speaker terminations are generally screw down terminations (crimped eye or fork lug) or inserted into a spring grip connection where bootlace ferrules are the better way to prepare the cable end. Obviously internal connections in your stereo are soldered.
5). I don't know what you mean by screw crimps, can you give a link to these?
Phil C said
11:04 AM Nov 20, 2015
Three things in the OP.
1. As I have said a properly made solder joint OR a properly made crimp joint WITH THE CORRECT crimp tool, not the Bunnings pretend tool, will last forever.
2. Heatshrink will protect and insulate a connection 10 out 10 for that one.
3. Neutral cure silastic will do the job, I suspect (as the same in my van) that all the underneath has this silastic on it, works a treat if worked correctly.
Cheers
03_Troopy said
11:08 AM Nov 20, 2015
Yes, back on topic eh Phil... saves all the B/S and confusion.
Petermernamc said
06:39 PM Nov 20, 2015
I put a dob of hot glue on a small board , then as the glue starts to set i roll the soldered connection in it , making like a cigarette, build up if necessary, never failed yet
-- Edited by Petermernamc on Friday 20th of November 2015 06:39:26 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
12:46 PM Nov 21, 2015
Depends on the quality of fittings . Strange as it may seem my quality ( ???) Yamaha speakers had little solder on speakers coils and become semi detached .. After soldiering properly they have lasted some quite heavy work..
To much solder in this area would make the wire too stiff .
In most cases limited flex or saddling wires limits any movement ..
Again it's a horses for courses application ..
Either done well with no dry joint is fine ..
The crimps I was referring to is what is used on single HV cable joints now ..
Where they used to heat alloy and weld cables together ..
Used on house service wires, often bimetallic alu service and copper consumer mains..
Such a wide variety out there, in s many fields..
03_Troopy said
01:11 PM Nov 21, 2015
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Depends on the quality of fittings . Strange as it may seem my quality ( ???) Yamaha speakers had little solder on speakers coils and become semi detached .. After soldiering properly they have lasted some quite heavy work.. To much solder in this area would make the wire too stiff . In most cases limited flex or saddling wires limits any movement .. Again it's a horses for courses application .. Either done well with no dry joint is fine ..
The crimps I was referring to is what is used on single HV cable joints now .. Where they used to heat alloy and weld cables together .. Used on house service wires, often bimetallic alu service and copper consumer mains.. Such a wide variety out there, in s many fields..
So not really relevant to the OP...
Solder on speaker coils??
Phil C said
04:18 PM Nov 21, 2015
Petermernamc wrote:
I put a dob of hot glue on a small board , then as the glue starts to set i roll the soldered connection in it , making like a cigarette, build up if necessary, never failed yet
-- Edited by Petermernamc on Friday 20th of November 2015 06:39:26 PM
G'day Peter and welcome to our motlie crew. I take it the hot glue is performing and insulating task, not "glueing" the solder joint? I like the idea of using the hot glue as an insulator, although I'm not sure what its electrical properties will be like.
Cheers
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 21st of November 2015 04:18:31 PM
Aus-Kiwi said
03:01 AM Nov 22, 2015
03_Troopy wrote:
Aus-Kiwi wrote:
Depends on the quality of fittings . Strange as it may seem my quality ( ???) Yamaha speakers had little solder on speakers coils and become semi detached .. After soldiering properly they have lasted some quite heavy work.. To much solder in this area would make the wire too stiff . In most cases limited flex or saddling wires limits any movement .. Again it's a horses for courses application .. Either done well with no dry joint is fine ..
The crimps I was referring to is what is used on single HV cable joints now .. Where they used to heat alloy and weld cables together .. Used on house service wires, often bimetallic alu service and copper consumer mains.. Such a wide variety out there, in s many fields..
So not really relevant to the OP...
Solder on speaker coils??
Yes wire to speaker .. They don't come with connectors ..
depends on application ..Ego..
Hylife said
11:19 PM Nov 24, 2015
In keeping with the spirit of this forum I don't deem it appropriate for some members to simply dismiss posts by other members simply on the basis that you think what they had to say was not relevant or that you have a differing point of view.
All members, new or old, have a right to be heard, and I find it extremely rude for others to suggest that I don't have a right to be heard or what I have to say is wrong or irrelevant, regardless of whether you think it is factually correct or not.
As someone who has been working (my job) with both electrics and electronics for almost 40 years on everything from consumer electronic devices, household electrical, automotive electrics and even (for the last 15 years) computer design and manufacture, I believe I have somewhat more knowledge than most in this area and will happily share that knowledge, but I will never dismiss anothers opinion simply because if differs from mine.
The OP asked generally about crimp or solder for electrical joints, (not electronic joints), and referred to their Auto-elec friend using both depending on the job, and for their van.
OP, as I believe you have been given a lot of conflicting advice to your question, please go talk to your Auto-elec friend and simply ask him/her WHY they use crimps or soldered connections and what can you do and use to improve the reliability of your automotive and van connections.
From experience I can tell you that almost all modern automotive connectors ARE crimp style, and crimp type connectors should NOT be soldered. Crimping is used where ever there may be some movement of the wires or the joint may be subject to movements or vibrations. Solder joints develop metal fatigue quite quickly when subject to movements and/or vibrations, eg most automotive use.
I was not referring to electronic circuits, although almost all wire connections used for audio speakers are crimp style for the very same reason, vibrations fracture soldered joints.
Regarding dielectric grease, I don't want to get into a he said she said war about its unsuitability or properties for automotive use, but automotive use is exactly what it is mostly used for and every auto-elec worth his salt will use copious quantities of the stuff.
Almost all reputable vehicle brands flood their under bonnet joints with dielectric grease, especially and including high current and HT leads.
The benefits are to act as a non-conductive grease to prevent corrosion from the elements often exacerbated by joint flexing which leads to dry joints, to prevent arcing on HT leads because silicone does NOT break down electrically, as a waterproofing agent, as a connector lubricating agent, and as a preservative for rubber components such as o-rings and electrical connector seals.
Dielectric grease should not be used as a substitute for a suitable insulator covering.
03_Troopy said
10:58 AM Nov 25, 2015
Sorry that you thought your post had been treated in a dismissive way Hylife, my reply wasn't intended that way. But some of us also have extensive experience in these areas as well. For example:
I was an Avionics Tech on military aircraft for 30 years, 22 years in the RAAF where I completed many different courses in wiring termination and connections, including connector best practices, High Reliability Hand Soldering and mechanical terminations and tooling (crimping). I also spent a couple of years investigating failures due to poor installation practices. And yes in aircraft, connections are almost always crimped for higher reliability.
I had my own business repairing consumer electronics and computer systems for 7 years, this was mainly soldering but occasionally crimped terminations.
I worked on 240V and 415V industrial electrical equipment such as inverter and large amperage welders and plasma cutting equipment (2 yrs). Here again, connections between internal components, input and output connections were crimped or screwdown connections (sleeved or wrapped cable ends).
I worked for a large company for 4 years, rewiring Blast Hole Drill Rigs, building mine service vehicles (utes and trucks) and also wiring and terminating electrical switchrooms (32VDC, 240VAC & 415VAC). Here I worked with a team of Auto Electricians and Electricians from various backgrounds. The Drill Rigs were almost always crimped terminations, except inside junction boxes where bootlace ferrules and push in terminal blocks are also used. The mine service vehicles had mainly crimped connections using insulated and non-insulated crimp terminations. Where it was necessary to splice into a wiring harness, strip and solder terminations were used.
Qualifications: RAAF Radio/Avionics Technician, Cert IV Avionics Maintenance Engineering, Advanced Certificate of Electrical Engineering, Advanced Diploma of Electrical Engineering.
In summary, yes crimped terminations do prove more reliable for vehicle interconnections, as I stated.
As for the Dielectric Grease, it does have a voltage breakdown point, which is high and in the order of 1100V/mil so that is probably not relevant to automotive use. The point I was making though, was in relation to this statement ----------------------------------------------------------- Hylife wrote:
If you are concerned with poor connections due to higher resistances (dry joints), then purchase a small tube of dielectric grease. -----------------------------------------------------------
Dielectric Grease will not lessen the possibilities of high resistance joints. It is an insulator. It will aid in lubricity of contact surfaces and moisture exclusion decreasing corrosion. However, it will also allow particles to be embedded into the grease and to stick to it causing increased damage to connectors. A fine light coating, as left by something like Servisol Contact Cleaner, on connector mating surfaces is much less likely to cause the same thing to happen. And I would not use it on cable ends prior to crimping because of it's insulative properties. This practice would be totally forbidden on aircraft crimped connections also, where any traces of contamination on cable ends must be removed before crimping.
A "Dry Joint" is a poorly made solder joint, where the solder has not wetted the metal surface (therefore not bonded) causing a high resistance joint, as opposed to a fractured joint, where the solder between the metal surfaces fractures and becomes high resistance. Where connectors have loose, dirty or corroded contacts, it is simply a high resistance joint.
To the OP, sorry that this has gone a bit off topic.
Aus-Kiwi said
03:15 PM Nov 25, 2015
There are no connectors on speakers them selves .. They are all soldered..
http://youtu.be/mohm5QmdgNA
Yes .. The grease your referring t is to keep water, crud etc out of wiring ..
electrical compound which is used in compression joint is mainly used when alloy is involved.. Or two metal types..
trouble with txt .. It seem like a Sh!t fight .. And arguments .. Often just things left out text .. Lol
On boat trailer lights fr example we found a touch of elect compound grease prevented corrosion, keeping better joint ..
It all depends on the crimp Those cheap spade crimps are bodgy IMO .. I would rather crimp and solder on trailer wires.. There are good trailer wire looms out there now with push on connections ideal for LED. Lights ...
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 03:42:09 PM
Do you solder & shrink wrap or crimp electrical joins? I've done both over the years. A friend who was an auto-elec does both depending on the job. My van is a mixture of both too. Anyone have a preference? Variables seem to be exposure and wire (current) size.
Also, what is the black goo used to seal wire & plumbing beneath vans? Is it just black silastic or something else?
Like my phone I like a good connection.
In some situations though, like splicing a wire into an existing harness, it is easier to go with soldering, and if done correctly is quite OK. Dual wall (glue lined) heat shrink can be used can be used over either and is good for keeping out moisture.
Some links
Link 1
Link 2
A general rule (before we invented Auto electricians) if the joint was FIXED (anchored securely) it could be soldered and if the joint was subject to movement/vibration (ie not supported) it should be crimped.
From experience (and from others on a very long thread here ages ago) soldered joints (like welds in steel that fail next to the weld) tend to fail at the edge of the solder run.
This rule has served me well since taught this in 1969 mechanics training in the RAAF.
Unfortunately they tend to solder more than crimp, unless it's a termination, and I've seen the disastrous lol.
However we don't need to go to the moon so nowadays I use a very high quality crimp set and hardly ever solder any more.
Just saying...
ZCheers
Well...I do both...when I,m around my workshop at home anyhow.
But out in the wilds....a really good quality ratchet crimper and decent terminals does the job for me. And while we are on the subject of soldering ...I have never had a soldered joint give any sort of trouble in 30 odd years of DIY and rattling around this great land. I might add that all joints are shrink wrapped with thick wall tube too.
Cheers Keith
Actually, you do see that sometimes in OEM vehicle wiring where they have light weight, open barrel crimps, on heavier wiring, especially in power wires. I have seen it mainly on fusible link wire terminations. And from memory, one of the Motor Body Builders Manuals we used says to do that on fusible link wiring. I'm not sure why though, maybe a belt and braces approach, and as long as the solder is only under the crimped section, and doesn't extend into the support section of the crimp, I can't see a problem. But with normal wiring using standard crimp terminations, and done with the correct tools, it isn't necessary and only introduces possibilities of a poor joint where the solder wicks up the wire past the support section of the crimp.
Edit: typo doh!
-- Edited by 03_Troopy on Thursday 19th of November 2015 11:27:58 AM
Depends on the connector type.
If it was for automotive use it will be most likely a crimp fitting. These should NOT be soldered. As has already been mentions the joint is less secure than crimping alone, IF, you use a proper crimping tool. If you just try and mangle the lugs together with some pliers it will be worse than just doing a twist tie joint.
If you are concerned with poor connections due to higher resistances (dry joints), then purchase a small tube of dielectric grease.
Sorry, but dielectric grease does not improve connection conductance. By it's very nature, it is an insulating compound. It may be helpful for lubrication and keeping moisture out of connectors once they are done up, but is far more likely to attract impurities that will damage threads and sockets. And definitely don't put it on a wire before you crimp it.
Servisol Electrical Contact cleaner would be far better for using on connectors. It cleans the surface and leaves a thin film of light lubricant which is likely to attract debris.
Reading the OP is helpful when giving advice.
Edit: Actually I will give you a bit of lea-way on using it on a crimp connection. Provided the crimped connection is well formed with quality crimping tools, it is probably not so detrimental. Given that a properly formed crimp connection will have squeezed the grease out from between the metal surfaces anyway. It may also help to keep moisture from wicking into the wire, outside the crimp connector. Or you could just use dual wall heat shrink over the joint.
-- Edited by 03_Troopy on Thursday 19th of November 2015 06:00:44 PM
Yeah I did the same course, then Hi Reliability hand soldering much later. IF and only if a solder joint is made correctly it will last forever, as will a well made crimp joint.. for me I like crimps now days as the hands are shaky and the eyes dim. BTW I have forever been a fan of polyolofin heatshrink, beware of cheap imitations...
Cheers
-- Edited by Phil C on Thursday 19th of November 2015 05:44:09 PM
Very important when crimping copper to alloy wire .. The sleeve or crimp is after friction welded to prevent corrosion..
There is a difference between 12v and 240 / 415 v also.. When solder is used on LV it de rates cable as it won't hold the heat..
Years back cables where bound at the ends .. But due to some live disconnections the bound wire caught in meter or switch causing an electrical flash.. Why do it under load ? PC correct way is to do away due to dumb asses..
Stereo systems are better soldered .. Nothing worse than a crackling speaker..
Boats or near salt water have different rules where tinned wire should be used..
I would say I have paid half my house off servicing houses with out supply on the coast..
New screw crimps where you tighten through insulation is much safer ..
1). The grease mentioned was DIELECTRIC GREASE Which is usually silicon based, and is an insulator. It can break down and arc over on HV equipment though.
2). Soldered joints on LV is quite OK IF:
a) the joint is not used on lugs or similar for hight current mechanical connection. The reason is that if the mech connection loosens, the resultant heat from the high resistant connection may melt the solder.
b) Proper soldering techniques are used so that the joint is mechanically sound before the solder is applied, the solder joint is properly formed and the joint is not overheated.
3). I was working in a workshop about 4 years ago where they still bound 240V and 415V cables where they were secured by pad or sleeved screw down connections.
4). Not sure where abouts in your stereo system you're talking about, but speaker terminations are generally screw down terminations (crimped eye or fork lug) or inserted into a spring grip connection where bootlace ferrules are the better way to prepare the cable end. Obviously internal connections in your stereo are soldered.
5). I don't know what you mean by screw crimps, can you give a link to these?
1. As I have said a properly made solder joint OR a properly made crimp joint WITH THE CORRECT crimp tool, not the Bunnings pretend tool, will last forever.
2. Heatshrink will protect and insulate a connection 10 out 10 for that one.
3. Neutral cure silastic will do the job, I suspect (as the same in my van) that all the underneath has this silastic on it, works a treat if worked correctly.
Cheers
I put a dob of hot glue on a small board , then as the glue starts to set i roll the soldered connection in it , making like a cigarette, build up if necessary, never failed yet
-- Edited by Petermernamc on Friday 20th of November 2015 06:39:26 PM
To much solder in this area would make the wire too stiff .
In most cases limited flex or saddling wires limits any movement ..
Again it's a horses for courses application ..
Either done well with no dry joint is fine ..
The crimps I was referring to is what is used on single HV cable joints now ..
Where they used to heat alloy and weld cables together ..
Used on house service wires, often bimetallic alu service and copper consumer mains..
Such a wide variety out there, in s many fields..
So not really relevant to the OP...
Solder on speaker coils??
G'day Peter and welcome to our motlie crew. I take it the hot glue is performing and insulating task, not "glueing" the solder joint? I like the idea of using the hot glue as an insulator, although I'm not sure what its electrical properties will be like.
Cheers
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 21st of November 2015 04:18:31 PM
Yes wire to speaker .. They don't come with connectors ..
depends on application ..Ego..
In keeping with the spirit of this forum I don't deem it appropriate for some members to simply dismiss posts by other members simply on the basis that you think what they had to say was not relevant or that you have a differing point of view.
All members, new or old, have a right to be heard, and I find it extremely rude for others to suggest that I don't have a right to be heard or what I have to say is wrong or irrelevant, regardless of whether you think it is factually correct or not.
As someone who has been working (my job) with both electrics and electronics for almost 40 years on everything from consumer electronic devices, household electrical, automotive electrics and even (for the last 15 years) computer design and manufacture, I believe I have somewhat more knowledge than most in this area and will happily share that knowledge, but I will never dismiss anothers opinion simply because if differs from mine.
The OP asked generally about crimp or solder for electrical joints, (not electronic joints), and referred to their Auto-elec friend using both depending on the job, and for their van.
OP, as I believe you have been given a lot of conflicting advice to your question, please go talk to your Auto-elec friend and simply ask him/her WHY they use crimps or soldered connections and what can you do and use to improve the reliability of your automotive and van connections.
From experience I can tell you that almost all modern automotive connectors ARE crimp style, and crimp type connectors should NOT be soldered. Crimping is used where ever there may be some movement of the wires or the joint may be subject to movements or vibrations. Solder joints develop metal fatigue quite quickly when subject to movements and/or vibrations, eg most automotive use.
I was not referring to electronic circuits, although almost all wire connections used for audio speakers are crimp style for the very same reason, vibrations fracture soldered joints.
Regarding dielectric grease, I don't want to get into a he said she said war about its unsuitability or properties for automotive use, but automotive use is exactly what it is mostly used for and every auto-elec worth his salt will use copious quantities of the stuff.
Almost all reputable vehicle brands flood their under bonnet joints with dielectric grease, especially and including high current and HT leads.
The benefits are to act as a non-conductive grease to prevent corrosion from the elements often exacerbated by joint flexing which leads to dry joints, to prevent arcing on HT leads because silicone does NOT break down electrically, as a waterproofing agent, as a connector lubricating agent, and as a preservative for rubber components such as o-rings and electrical connector seals.
Dielectric grease should not be used as a substitute for a suitable insulator covering.
Sorry that you thought your post had been treated in a dismissive way Hylife, my reply wasn't intended that way. But some of us also have extensive experience in these areas as well. For example:
I was an Avionics Tech on military aircraft for 30 years, 22 years in the RAAF where I completed many different courses in wiring termination and connections, including connector best practices, High Reliability Hand Soldering and mechanical terminations and tooling (crimping). I also spent a couple of years investigating failures due to poor installation practices. And yes in aircraft, connections are almost always crimped for higher reliability.
I had my own business repairing consumer electronics and computer systems for 7 years, this was mainly soldering but occasionally crimped terminations.
I worked on 240V and 415V industrial electrical equipment such as inverter and large amperage welders and plasma cutting equipment (2 yrs). Here again, connections between internal components, input and output connections were crimped or screwdown connections (sleeved or wrapped cable ends).
I worked for a large company for 4 years, rewiring Blast Hole Drill Rigs, building mine service vehicles (utes and trucks) and also wiring and terminating electrical switchrooms (32VDC, 240VAC & 415VAC). Here I worked with a team of Auto Electricians and Electricians from various backgrounds. The Drill Rigs were almost always crimped terminations, except inside junction boxes where bootlace ferrules and push in terminal blocks are also used. The mine service vehicles had mainly crimped connections using insulated and non-insulated crimp terminations. Where it was necessary to splice into a wiring harness, strip and solder terminations were used.
Qualifications: RAAF Radio/Avionics Technician, Cert IV Avionics Maintenance Engineering, Advanced Certificate of Electrical Engineering, Advanced Diploma of Electrical Engineering.
In summary, yes crimped terminations do prove more reliable for vehicle interconnections, as I stated.
As for the Dielectric Grease, it does have a voltage breakdown point, which is high and in the order of 1100V/mil so that is probably not relevant to automotive use. The point I was making though, was in relation to this statement
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Hylife wrote:
If you are concerned with poor connections due to higher resistances (dry joints), then purchase a small tube of dielectric grease.
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Dielectric Grease will not lessen the possibilities of high resistance joints. It is an insulator. It will aid in lubricity of contact surfaces and moisture exclusion decreasing corrosion. However, it will also allow particles to be embedded into the grease and to stick to it causing increased damage to connectors. A fine light coating, as left by something like Servisol Contact Cleaner, on connector mating surfaces is much less likely to cause the same thing to happen. And I would not use it on cable ends prior to crimping because of it's insulative properties. This practice would be totally forbidden on aircraft crimped connections also, where any traces of contamination on cable ends must be removed before crimping.
A "Dry Joint" is a poorly made solder joint, where the solder has not wetted the metal surface (therefore not bonded) causing a high resistance joint, as opposed to a fractured joint, where the solder between the metal surfaces fractures and becomes high resistance. Where connectors have loose, dirty or corroded contacts, it is simply a high resistance joint.
To the OP, sorry that this has gone a bit off topic.
There are no connectors on speakers them selves .. They are all soldered..
http://youtu.be/mohm5QmdgNA
Yes .. The grease your referring t is to keep water, crud etc out of wiring ..
electrical compound which is used in compression joint is mainly used when alloy is involved.. Or two metal types..
trouble with txt .. It seem like a Sh!t fight .. And arguments .. Often just things left out text .. Lol
On boat trailer lights fr example we found a touch of elect compound grease prevented corrosion, keeping better joint ..
It all depends on the crimp Those cheap spade crimps are bodgy IMO .. I would rather crimp and solder on trailer wires..
There are good trailer wire looms out there now with push on connections ideal for LED. Lights ...
-- Edited by Aus-Kiwi on Wednesday 25th of November 2015 03:42:09 PM