Fine with me. Cigarette butt litter isn't my favourite decoration all around campgrounds.
rockylizard said
09:55 AM Nov 16, 2014
Gday...
I guess it had to come eventually ... the cigarette is being banned from just about everywhere now. Still legal to be sold and provide tax to governments though.
However, when will they ban alcohol, disposable nappies, food wrappings, soft drink cans and plastic water bottles from National Parks as well.
Perhaps rather than banning "products" some thought should be given to "banning" humans.
Cheers - John
Kooroorinya Kelpie said
10:15 AM Nov 16, 2014
Now won't this give the anti smoking mob something to clack their dentures and clap their hands over. The Nicola Roxon brigade strike another blow in the battle to have the smoking minority banished to a 3 acre block in the middle of the Tanami. And before all the anti smoking forumites stomp me to death can I suggest that you all enrol in your local gymnasium get fit classes because the next illogical step ( logic has never been a strong point amongst the enviromaniacs ) will be to ban motor vehicles from the parks followed by a ban on cooking any food in the park so that all mung beans, tofu and Coles noodles will have to be cooked at home and taken into the parks in non polluting containers e.g. shirt or trouser pockets. Training should also be undertaken in retention of all bodily wastes ............................................ and we the Returned Servicemen and Women genuinely believed we were fighting for our freedom.
The Phantom said
10:24 AM Nov 16, 2014
Kooroorinya Kelpie wrote:
Now won't this give the anti smoking mob something to clack their dentures and clap their hands over. The Nicola Roxon brigade strike another blow in the battle to have the smoking minority banished to a 3 acre block in the middle of the Tanami. And before all the anti smoking forumites stomp me to death can I suggest that you all enrol in your local gymnasium get fit classes because the next illogical step ( logic has never been a strong point amongst the enviromaniacs ) will be to ban motor vehicles from the parks followed by a ban on cooking any food in the park so that all mung beans, tofu and Coles noodles will have to be cooked at home and taken into the parks in non polluting containers e.g. shirt or trouser pockets. Training should also be undertaken in retention of all bodily wastes ............................................ and we the Returned Servicemen and Women genuinely believed we were fighting for our freedom.
I love the way that line is used to justify a position.
The truth is, KK, you were never fighting for freedom. You were where you were to satisfy a politician's ego or protect the USA's oil rights.
The Phantom
NeilandRaine said
10:36 AM Nov 16, 2014
It wont be long and they will have smoking rooms in Kings Cross
Cupie said
10:37 AM Nov 16, 2014
As an ex smoker, (& ex Serviceman - indeed in that experience we were trained to leave as little indication of our presence as possible), I have difficulty with the disposal of dumpers or any other type of litter on the ground.
I know that in my youth we were not particularly mindful of rubbish pollution. Trips were described in terms of stubbies consumed (by the driver too) eg .. A six pack from A to B. Of course the empties were dispatched by throwing them over the top of the car to the roadside or trying to hit the passing road signs. Fag butts got the same treatment. We were expert in accurate long distance flicking of butts. There were even trucks & semitrailers all round the place making a good living picking up empties from the roadside.
But that happily is long past. On my first trip on outback roads after a break of many years I was struck by the lack of empties along the roadside.
We would not even think of dropping the smallest bit of litter anywhere in the town or bush thesedays. Our grand children would be quick to correct us if we did.
Having said that, I too shake my head at some of the regulations introduced by public service administrators. But then I had trouble with some OH&S zealots too. So often we all suffer under the hands of zealot do gooders because of the actions of an irresponsible minority.
ps. Unfortunately my Son still smokes but I have never seen him discard a butt onto the ground.
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 16th of November 2014 10:41:33 AM
Red Dog said
10:41 AM Nov 16, 2014
About time should be Australia wide
NeilandRaine said
10:47 AM Nov 16, 2014
The Phantom wrote:
Kooroorinya Kelpie wrote:
Now won't this give the anti smoking mob something to clack their dentures and clap their hands over. The Nicola Roxon brigade strike another blow in the battle to have the smoking minority banished to a 3 acre block in the middle of the Tanami. And before all the anti smoking forumites stomp me to death can I suggest that you all enrol in your local gymnasium get fit classes because the next illogical step ( logic has never been a strong point amongst the enviromaniacs ) will be to ban motor vehicles from the parks followed by a ban on cooking any food in the park so that all mung beans, tofu and Coles noodles will have to be cooked at home and taken into the parks in non polluting containers e.g. shirt or trouser pockets. Training should also be undertaken in retention of all bodily wastes ............................................ and we the Returned Servicemen and Women genuinely believed we were fighting for our freedom.
I love the way that line is used to justify a position.
The truth is, KK, you were never fighting for freedom. You were where you were to satisfy a politician's ego or protect the USA's oil rights.
The Phantom
We entered the First and Second World War way before the USA and if it wasn't for the USA Australia would of been in big trouble in 1942.
I served because it was something I wanted to do, just like my father and grand father before me. Vietnam had nothing to do with oil. It was about the spread of Communism, just like the domino effect the Nazis hoped for in 1939
At this time we are fighting a tyranny that we all hopes never succeeds. The fight against ISIL is an attempt to stop a Domino effect in the Middle East.
No doubt some will disagree with me but I am allowed to my opinion
Sorry got off topic
Yes I am a reformed smoker and yes I do believe the non smoking lobby have gone way over the top on this one. If smoking was to be banned in a National Park I would hope it was because many carelessly discarded butts have caused untold damage.
-- Edited by NeilandRaine on Sunday 16th of November 2014 11:05:52 AM
Gerty Dancer said
11:28 AM Nov 16, 2014
"If smoking was to be banned in a National Park I would hope it was because many carelessly discarded butts have caused untold damage. "
I guess a bushfire would fit that description?.
Just because we the older Grey Nomads take care of our playground, doesn't mean everybody does. There's a lot of stupid filthy people out there who leave rubbish, nappies, excreta and paper behind, and empty cassettes into the Composting loos. Our taxes go to paying the clean-up bill, and I resent that a lot more than yet another ban on something that is thought a "Right" by some.
Even though it seems common sense to us, some folk just don't have any of that, nor care, and it seems the fall-back option is to ban. It grieves me they cant legislate for common sense.
sandsmere said
12:01 PM Nov 16, 2014
The trouble with common sense GD is that it isn't very common.
Phil C said
12:20 PM Nov 16, 2014
Yipes, I am also an ex serviceman and ex smoker..
The big issue for me is litter and the smell of smoking. If people want to smoke please do, its just the smell that makes me sneeze and wheeze etc.
If you must smoke be very aware of the mess you leave behind, its unsightly and very yucky.
Im done
Travel safely
cooee said
02:30 PM Nov 16, 2014
The Phantom wrote:
Kooroorinya Kelpie wrote:
Now won't this give the anti smoking mob something to clack their dentures and clap their hands over. The Nicola Roxon brigade strike another blow in the battle to have the smoking minority banished to a 3 acre block in the middle of the Tanami. And before all the anti smoking forumites stomp me to death can I suggest that you all enrol in your local gymnasium get fit classes because the next illogical step ( logic has never been a strong point amongst the enviromaniacs ) will be to ban motor vehicles from the parks followed by a ban on cooking any food in the park so that all mung beans, tofu and Coles noodles will have to be cooked at home and taken into the parks in non polluting containers e.g. shirt or trouser pockets. Training should also be undertaken in retention of all bodily wastes ............................................ and we the Returned Servicemen and Women genuinely believed we were fighting for our freedom.
I love the way that line is used to justify a position.
The truth is, KK, you were never fighting for freedom. You were where you were to satisfy a politician's ego or protect the USA's oil rights.
The Phantom
Kooroorinya Kelpie wrote( in part )
<<and we the Returned Servicemen and Women genuinely believed we were fighting for our freedom. >>
A statement like that always gets the troops stirred up and there is a lot written about the concept.If anyone is really interested Google
I fought for your freedom or
I fought for freedom or
fought for freedom etc ,
-- Edited by cooee on Sunday 16th of November 2014 02:31:11 PM
cooee said
02:36 PM Nov 16, 2014
To me it is just an extension of the Total Fire Ban . I dont see it as anything to do with keepong the NPs tidy or clean.
They are trying to protect property and lives so I dont mind.
GaryKelly said
05:38 PM Nov 16, 2014
I'm pretty sure I've heard that the biggest single offender on Clean Up Australia Days is cigarette butts. But John also makes a valid point about all the other stuff people discard thoughtlessly. Check out space. We've been in space for about 5 minutes and already there's a major problem with space junk.
dorian said
06:36 PM Nov 16, 2014
GaryKelly wrote:
I'm pretty sure I've heard that the biggest single offender on Clean Up Australia Days is cigarette butts. But John also makes a valid point about all the other stuff people discard thoughtlessly. Check out space. We've been in space for about 5 minutes and already there's a major problem with space junk.
Well, at least nobody will have to worry about a cigarette butt travelling at 20,000 kph.
Gundog said
09:36 PM Nov 16, 2014
Interesting Smoking was banned in the work place in SA, the thought police tried to have the ban extended to truck drivers as their explanation it was a work place and smoking was banned in the work place, add to that also in SA its an offence for an adult to smoke in a vehicle whilst children under 16 are present, but a child under 16 smoking is not an offence in the vehicle. "where will it all end"
I'm not sure wether this one got traction but the Glenelg Council was going to ban smoking from its beaches, but how do you determine where the councils property ends, so a solution put up by smokers is if you stand in the water you not in Glenelg.
I to am an ex smoker and an ex serviceman, yes we have and still do defend those who could not or cannot defend themselves, My father, myself and 2 of my sons have served this nation and swore to defend the constitution etc. etc. but the thought police are trying to piss me off.
cooee said
10:20 PM Nov 16, 2014
Gundog said
<< I to am an ex smoker and an ex serviceman, yes we have and still do defend those who could not or cannot defend themselves, My father, myself and 2 of my sons have served this nation and swore to defend the constitution etc. etc. >>
I say thank you for that and I am sure others join me in doing so.
Aus-Kiwi said
11:35 PM Nov 16, 2014
If the military didn't practice in bush, if the power lines wasn't there, if lightning didn't exist..
How many fires have been blamed on butts ?
Blame everything but the authorities !!
Ontos45 said
12:00 PM Nov 17, 2014
Our main cause of fires here (Rocky and Yeppoon) is lightning, bloody idiots burning off and letting it get away and of cause, fire bugs. I don't smoke much now but love a fag walking the beach or having a fish.
Maybe we should ban smoking and the Gov. loose billions in tax......you non smokers can pick up the tab, because the Gov. will get the tax another way.
johnq said
04:31 PM Nov 17, 2014
You tend to find what you are looking fora and cigarette butts are definitely not PC. I suppose if counting was butt by butt then cigarette butts could by number represent the 'worst' rubbish in some areas, probably in those treated pine corralled areas that parks bureaucrats are so fond of establishing.
I would put packaging, not just food and drink packaging either, as a far more bulky rubbish than cigarette butts.
Polystyrene packaging lasts for years and it just breaks down to smaller particles of the same stuff. Still the same quantity and still a problem, but not as noticeable.
I don't smoke, although in pre-political correctness days one could have a view without having to make such a declaration, or be labelled and dismissed accordingly.
Cloak said
07:26 PM Nov 17, 2014
I'm waiting for farts to be banned, it'll happen one day.
cooee said
07:41 PM Nov 17, 2014
<<< I'm waiting for farts to be banned, it'll happen one day.>>>
I wish they would <G>
Bruce and Bev said
11:40 PM Nov 17, 2014
If smoking was banned in the Parks only because of the fire risk - then fine, no-one can argue with that. If it was done to protect your health and that of others, then that's totally wrong!!
Ive just finishing driving round regional WA and two many huge fires have been caused by smoke butts flicked out windows and its also interesting to notice that the roads that are densely populated by long haul truckies are decorated with tons of empty plastic drink or water bottles (you don't see the same thing on major roads not used by these truckies) and I seen to many of them just fire an empty bottle out their side window when other motorists are around (but see how much interest the local councils/police have if you try to report them for littering)
tonyd said
12:31 AM Nov 18, 2014
Surely the whole point about the ban is this: How on Earth do the shiny bum brigade intend to enforce it?
A warden behind every bush, perhaps? Compulsory vehicle/van searches? The mind boggles.
Tony
johnq said
07:29 AM Nov 18, 2014
tonyd wrote:
Surely the whole point about the ban is this: How on Earth do the shiny bum brigade intend to enforce it?
A warden behind every bush, perhaps? Compulsory vehicle/van searches? The mind boggles.
Tony
The serially annoyed will whinge until rangers are paid early morning overtime to pop out from behind a shrub at 6am while some old codger is enjoying his lung-buster and his heart-starter billy tea. Park fees will be upped accordingly.
BTW, there are cameras being used to ensure 'compliance' in national parks. Official line, "Surveillance cameras may be used to monitor visitor behaviour and movements throughout the park. On-the-spot fines may also apply".
There were reports of hidden cameras in some secluded beach areas of Qld in the recent past.
So take care where you drop your dacks and display your butt, Big Nana State may (er, make that 'will') be watching and without warning.
-- Edited by johnq on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 07:32:03 AM
PeterD said
07:28 PM Nov 18, 2014
Technically, lighting a cigarette can be prosecuted as lighting a fire in the open when we have total fire bans. It just happens that the police turn a blind eye toward the transgressor.
dorian said
07:16 AM Nov 19, 2014
Ontos45 wrote:
Maybe we should ban smoking and the Gov. loose billions in tax......you non smokers can pick up the tab, because the Gov. will get the tax another way.
I agree that it's hypocritical for the government to be profiting from people's vices/addictions, but are smokers really paying their way?
How much does tobacco related lung cancer, emphysema, cardiovascular disease, and cancer of the bladder, esophagus, larynx, lung, mouth, and throat cost the taxpayer compared to the revenue collected from tobacco excise?
Gerty Dancer said
07:55 AM Nov 19, 2014
dorian wrote:
Ontos45 wrote:
Maybe we should ban smoking and the Gov. loose billions in tax......you non smokers can pick up the tab, because the Gov. will get the tax another way.
I agree that it's hypocritical for the government to be profiting from people's vices/addictions, but are smokers really paying their way?
How much does tobacco related lung cancer, emphysema, cardiovascular disease, and cancer of the bladder, esophagus, larynx, lung, mouth, and throat cost the taxpayer compared to the revenue collected from tobacco excise?
That was the original excuse given for imposing such a high tax on tobacco products. In fact I read somewhere that this amount still doesn't cover the costs, not just for hospitals and healthcare, but also for time off work, loss of earnings etc
rockylizard said
08:09 AM Nov 19, 2014
Gerty Dancer wrote:
dorian wrote:
Ontos45 wrote:
Maybe we should ban smoking and the Gov. loose billions in tax......you non smokers can pick up the tab, because the Gov. will get the tax another way.
I agree that it's hypocritical for the government to be profiting from people's vices/addictions, but are smokers really paying their way?
How much does tobacco related lung cancer, emphysema, cardiovascular disease, and cancer of the bladder, esophagus, larynx, lung, mouth, and throat cost the taxpayer compared to the revenue collected from tobacco excise?
That was the original excuse given for imposing such a high tax on tobacco products. In fact I read somewhere that this amount still doesn't cover the costs, not just for hospitals and healthcare, but also for time off work, loss of earnings etc
Gday..
Don't forget that alcohol contributes to an even higher health cost to the taxpayer/community as well as the additional cost of involving the health and safety of others (cigarette smokers mainly only affect their own health) - as well as time off work and loss of earnings etc etc etc.
And .... include domestic violence - no-one ever had one too many ciggies and smacked the wife around ... or caused an accident driving home from having "just one more ciggy for the road" .
86% of lung cancer sufferers are smokers - but only 16% of smokers get lung cancer - so 84% of lung cancer sufferers didn't smoke. Makes ya wonder.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 19th of November 2014 08:10:50 AM
NSW National parks are smoke free due to litter and fire risk.
Sometimes the shiny bums just go too far with their imaginations.
http://www.9news.com.au/health/2014/11/16/00/14/smoking-banned-in-nsw-national-parks
Gday...
I guess it had to come eventually ... the cigarette is being banned from just about everywhere now. Still legal to be sold and provide tax to governments though.
However, when will they ban alcohol, disposable nappies, food wrappings, soft drink cans and plastic water bottles from National Parks as well.
Perhaps rather than banning "products" some thought should be given to "banning" humans.
Cheers - John
I love the way that line is used to justify a position.
The truth is, KK, you were never fighting for freedom. You were where you were to satisfy a politician's ego or protect the USA's oil rights.
The Phantom
As an ex smoker, (& ex Serviceman - indeed in that experience we were trained to leave as little indication of our presence as possible), I have difficulty with the disposal of dumpers or any other type of litter on the ground.
I know that in my youth we were not particularly mindful of rubbish pollution. Trips were described in terms of stubbies consumed (by the driver too) eg .. A six pack from A to B. Of course the empties were dispatched by throwing them over the top of the car to the roadside or trying to hit the passing road signs. Fag butts got the same treatment. We were expert in accurate long distance flicking of butts. There were even trucks & semitrailers all round the place making a good living picking up empties from the roadside.
But that happily is long past. On my first trip on outback roads after a break of many years I was struck by the lack of empties along the roadside.
We would not even think of dropping the smallest bit of litter anywhere in the town or bush thesedays. Our grand children would be quick to correct us if we did.
Having said that, I too shake my head at some of the regulations introduced by public service administrators. But then I had trouble with some OH&S zealots too. So often we all suffer under the hands of zealot do gooders because of the actions of an irresponsible minority.
ps. Unfortunately my Son still smokes but I have never seen him discard a butt onto the ground.
-- Edited by Cupie on Sunday 16th of November 2014 10:41:33 AM
About time should be Australia wide
We entered the First and Second World War way before the USA and if it wasn't for the USA Australia would of been in big trouble in 1942.
I served because it was something I wanted to do, just like my father and grand father before me. Vietnam had nothing to do with oil. It was about the spread of Communism, just like the domino effect the Nazis hoped for in 1939
At this time we are fighting a tyranny that we all hopes never succeeds. The fight against ISIL is an attempt to stop a Domino effect in the Middle East.
No doubt some will disagree with me but I am allowed to my opinion
Sorry got off topic
Yes I am a reformed smoker and yes I do believe the non smoking lobby have gone way over the top on this one. If smoking was to be banned in a National Park I would hope it was because many carelessly discarded butts have caused untold damage.
-- Edited by NeilandRaine on Sunday 16th of November 2014 11:05:52 AM
"If smoking was to be banned in a National Park I would hope it was because many carelessly discarded butts have caused untold damage. "
I guess a bushfire would fit that description?.
Just because we the older Grey Nomads take care of our playground, doesn't mean everybody does. There's a lot of stupid filthy people out there who leave rubbish, nappies, excreta and paper behind, and empty cassettes into the Composting loos. Our taxes go to paying the clean-up bill, and I resent that a lot more than yet another ban on something that is thought a "Right" by some.
Even though it seems common sense to us, some folk just don't have any of that, nor care, and it seems the fall-back option is to ban. It grieves me they cant legislate for common sense.
The trouble with common sense GD is that it isn't very common.
The big issue for me is litter and the smell of smoking. If people want to smoke please do, its just the smell that makes me sneeze and wheeze etc.
If you must smoke be very aware of the mess you leave behind, its unsightly and very yucky.
Im done
Travel safely
Kooroorinya Kelpie wrote( in part )
<<and we the Returned Servicemen and Women genuinely believed we were fighting for our freedom. >>
A statement like that always gets the troops stirred up and there is a lot written about the concept. If anyone is really interested Google
I fought for your freedom or
I fought for freedom or
fought for freedom etc ,
-- Edited by cooee on Sunday 16th of November 2014 02:31:11 PM
To me it is just an extension of the Total Fire Ban . I dont see it as anything to do with keepong the NPs tidy or clean.
They are trying to protect property and lives so I dont mind.
Well, at least nobody will have to worry about a cigarette butt travelling at 20,000 kph.
I'm not sure wether this one got traction but the Glenelg Council was going to ban smoking from its beaches, but how do you determine where the councils property ends, so a solution put up by smokers is if you stand in the water you not in Glenelg.
I to am an ex smoker and an ex serviceman, yes we have and still do defend those who could not or cannot defend themselves, My father, myself and 2 of my sons have served this nation and swore to defend the constitution etc. etc. but the thought police are trying to piss me off.
Gundog said
<< I to am an ex smoker and an ex serviceman, yes we have and still do defend those who could not or cannot defend themselves, My father, myself and 2 of my sons have served this nation and swore to defend the constitution etc. etc. >>
I say thank you for that and I am sure others join me in doing so.
How many fires have been blamed on butts ?
Blame everything but the authorities !!
Our main cause of fires here (Rocky and Yeppoon) is lightning, bloody idiots burning off and letting it get away and of cause, fire bugs. I don't smoke much now but love a fag walking the beach or having a fish.
Maybe we should ban smoking and the Gov. loose billions in tax......you non smokers can pick up the tab, because the Gov. will get the tax another way.
I would put packaging, not just food and drink packaging either, as a far more bulky rubbish than cigarette butts.
Polystyrene packaging lasts for years and it just breaks down to smaller particles of the same stuff. Still the same quantity and still a problem, but not as noticeable.
I don't smoke, although in pre-political correctness days one could have a view without having to make such a declaration, or be labelled and dismissed accordingly.
<<< I'm waiting for farts to be banned, it'll happen one day.>>>
I wish they would <G>
Ive just finishing driving round regional WA and two many huge fires have been caused by smoke butts flicked out windows and its also interesting to notice that the roads that are densely populated by long haul truckies are decorated with tons of empty plastic drink or water bottles (you don't see the same thing on major roads not used by these truckies) and I seen to many of them just fire an empty bottle out their side window when other motorists are around (but see how much interest the local councils/police have if you try to report them for littering)
A warden behind every bush, perhaps? Compulsory vehicle/van searches? The mind boggles.
Tony
The serially annoyed will whinge until rangers are paid early morning overtime to pop out from behind a shrub at 6am while some old codger is enjoying his lung-buster and his heart-starter billy tea. Park fees will be upped accordingly.
BTW, there are cameras being used to ensure 'compliance' in national parks. Official line, "Surveillance cameras may be used to monitor visitor behaviour and movements throughout the park. On-the-spot fines may also apply".
There were reports of hidden cameras in some secluded beach areas of Qld in the recent past.
A Vic example from a newspaper,
http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/560915/parks-hidden-surveillance-cameras-found-in-daylesford-bush/
So take care where you drop your dacks and display your butt, Big Nana State may (er, make that 'will') be watching and without warning.
-- Edited by johnq on Tuesday 18th of November 2014 07:32:03 AM
I agree that it's hypocritical for the government to be profiting from people's vices/addictions, but are smokers really paying their way?
How much does tobacco related lung cancer, emphysema, cardiovascular disease, and cancer of the bladder, esophagus, larynx, lung, mouth, and throat cost the taxpayer compared to the revenue collected from tobacco excise?
That was the original excuse given for imposing such a high tax on tobacco products. In fact I read somewhere that this amount still doesn't cover the costs, not just for hospitals and healthcare, but also for time off work, loss of earnings etc
Gday..
Don't forget that alcohol contributes to an even higher health cost to the taxpayer/community as well as the additional cost of involving the health and safety of others (cigarette smokers mainly only affect their own health) - as well as time off work and loss of earnings etc etc etc.
And .... include domestic violence - no-one ever had one too many ciggies and smacked the wife around
... or caused an accident driving home from having "just one more ciggy for the road" .
86% of lung cancer sufferers are smokers - but only 16% of smokers get lung cancer - so 84% of lung cancer sufferers didn't smoke. Makes ya wonder.
cheers - John
-- Edited by rockylizard on Wednesday 19th of November 2014 08:10:50 AM