Simple Relay Circuit to provide power to your Vans Fridge..
Blue said
08:48 PM Oct 31, 2014
Hi guys..
I'd like to address a questions that keeps on revolving to the top of this forum to help you guys save hundreds of dollars..
a lot of you guys do have the smarts to do this but just need a little help..
I know that this is raw, I tried to talk slower, it was off the cuff, but if you can understand what im saying then you'll save hundreds of dollars
please feel free to ask any questions..
ok, this is your basic relay circuit..
and this is an explanation of that circuit that will provide power to your vans fridge..
and remember.. this is only a 12v circuit.. your vans fridge has to be cold already... this is only to try and keep your fridge cold through a daily trip to your next stop.. it will NOT cool your fridge... only try to maintain already cold temperatures..
thankyou for listening..
oldtrack123 said
10:00 PM Oct 31, 2014
HI Now that looks like the same set up that was proposed, by PeterD & others in the now closed thread. that was claimed would destroy every thing [electronics, Alternater ETC} It is still simply picking up an ignition switched line to supply the coil with the fridge connected by the contacts to the tug battery!
But as I posted on the now closed thread IT does have one big disadvantage The fridge is turned on immmediately you turn the key to 'RUN",even before you start the starter. If the battery is sick or low on capacity ,the fridge load [15 <25A] could be the straw that breaks the camel's back & all that is needed to prevent the starter from turningthe motor over
This can be an even bigger problem with deisels & the preheaters
It also does not act as a low voltage cut out ,while the ignition switch is "ON" the fridge will draw power,the engine does not have to be running. I pointed that out in the closed thread & gave my preference to a VSR.[Voltage sensitive relay] Does not cut the fridge in until the tug battery reaches around 13<13.2 V , turns fridge OFF if the voltage drops below around 12.5>12.6V depending on brand & model. . But the model # of the 3way fridge is equally important as many do have an inbuilt voltage sensor which shall be connected to the D+ terminal of the tug [or a similar point] The correct operation & safety features depend on that connection with those models.
Depending on fridge model, MOST WILL COOL, not just hold while on 12v,IF,they are correctly installed
That means physically& electrically AND MOST ARE NOT
Very, very,few are wired with heavy enough cables from crank battery to fridge, resulting in excesive voltage drop & the fridge not getting its 'rated voltage['Min 12V]
even if only 1V is lost the fridge is only getting 84% of it's rated power
But Thanks for showing how to connect a common ignition controlled relay
ps Using exactly the same set up ,with a higher rated [current] relay is commonly used for direct charging of VAN /auxilary batterries.but with the same disadvantages as posted above Again A VSR is preferable
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 10:20:51 PM
Blue said
10:16 PM Oct 31, 2014
Hi oldtrack..
this IS NOT the same circuit as in the closed thread that I warned of..
peter dee's circuit was jacking directly into the "ignition" circuit of a 1968 Datus 1200 special.. or something like that..
mostly.. they don't exist anymore nor should that circuit that he put forward that would destroy a modern day electronic ignition system...
this system that I have put forward, is 100% accurate, to todays electrical systems.. there is no question... 100%
This is the Forums first Sticky,
if they want to grow up and become part of the modern world and not seen as silly old farts in Caravans as we are today..
Cindy needs to recognise this and join forces with other nomad forums to become a greater power.. to push for more free camping.. to push for our rights as Nomads, to travel this land without the hindrances of capitalists trying to force us into there worthless caravan parks!!!
oldtrack123 said
10:47 PM Oct 31, 2014
Blue wrote:
Hi oldtrack..
this IS NOT the same circuit as in the closed thread that I warned of..
peter dee's circuit was jacking directly into the "ignition" circuit of a 1968 Datus 1200 special.. or something like that..
mostly.. they don't exist anymore nor should that circuit that he put forward that would destroy a modern day electronic ignition system...
this system that I have put forward, is 100% accurate, to todays electrical systems.. there is no question... 100%
This is the Forums first Sticky,
if they want to grow up and become part of the modern world and not seen as silly old farts in Caravans as we are today..
Cindy needs to recognise this and join forces with other nomad forums to become a greater power.. to push for more free camping.. to push for our rights as Nomads, to travel this land without the hindrances of capitalists trying to force us into there worthless caravan parks!!!
IF this is typical of the Stickys, then GOD help all the readers
THere is nothing wrong with the pics you have posted & yes the wiper line is ONE of the good points to pick up a line that is switched by the ignition switch
I have,from time to time used that point myself, purely because it was more convenient!!
But it is the verbal claims you make that are the problem.
IT is NO different to making ANY conection to the load side of the run position of an ignition switch
That is basically what PeterD showed
A line from the load side of the ignition switch to the coil.
t
RE "mostly.. they don't exist anymore nor should that circuit that he put forward that would destroy a modern day electronic ignition system"
Please explain HOW it could destroy modern electronic ignition systems???
AND quote"peter dee's circuit was jacking directly into the "ignition" circuit of a 1968 Datus 1200 special.. or something like that.."
What makes you think it is only relevent to that model vehicle??
It is typical of all coil/distributer type systems,. but that makes no difference in the end it is doing EXACTLY the same as your wiper connection
He is Still connecting to Run side of the ignition switch.
That is where the wipers/relays are connected.
He has connected NOTHING to the ignition system
He has simply used that terminal as being a convenient point to get a direct connection to the load side of the ignition switch when it is in the run position, in the engine compartment
Anyone with an ounce of electrical knowledge would see that
Would you have been happier if he simply moved that connection to the back of the ignition switch?
Even Google can lead those with only a little knowledge astray.
then another old saying
"A liitle knowledge can be dangerous"
I do hope that Cindy does have the stickys vetted by QUALIFIED persons before they are allowed on the forum otherwise many many people will be led up the garden path.
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 11:01:44 PM
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 11:24:49 PM
aussie_paul said
10:57 PM Oct 31, 2014
On modern day cars does the ignition load side of the switch also power the ECU?
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Friday 31st of October 2014 10:58:04 PM
hako said
11:02 PM Oct 31, 2014
Good One Blue - exactly how mine is setup except I opened my beer before I started. I like the warnings about avoiding frying the ECU. Simple and unsophisticated but does the job.
Regards
oldtrack123 said
11:11 PM Oct 31, 2014
aussie_paul wrote:
On modern day cars does the ignition load side of the switch also power the ECU?
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Friday 31st of October 2014 10:58:04 PM
Paul
It does not matter what it powers .
If that common point can run the wipers, radio, ,.some lights window winders ,cigarette lighter socket etc, or THEIR operating relays, all those things that only come "on" with the ignition switch in the run position, it can certainly run an additional small relay coil.WITHOUT FRYING/ interfering with the"electronic" ignition system or any other system
but we should wait for Blue's explanation of why/ how it could.
One never knows, perhaps PeterD,myself & many other in the field have something to learn from Blue.
WE shall see!
PeterQ
-
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 11:47:40 PM
aussie_paul said
11:20 PM Oct 31, 2014
oldtrack123 wrote:
aussie_paul wrote:
On modern day cars does the ignition load side of the switch also power the ECU?
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Friday 31st of October 2014 10:58:04 PM
Paul
It does not matter what it powers .
If that common point can run the wipers, radio, ,.some lights window winders etc, or THEIR operating relays, all those things that only come "on" with the ignition switch in the run position, it can certainly run an additional small relay coil.WITHOUT interfering with the"electronic" ignition sysyem or any other system.
PeterQ
Understood Peter, that is how I imagined it would work. Just checking that there can be no interference with sensitive electronics from that point. Playing devils advocate here..Thanks.
Aussie Paul.
Blue said
11:21 PM Oct 31, 2014
hako wrote:
Good One Blue - exactly how mine is setup except I opened my beer before I started. I like the warnings about avoiding frying the ECU. Simple and unsophisticated but does the job. Regards
Excellent hako!!!
and so it should be something we can pass on to our fellow nomads to save our viewers a few bucks... !!
oldtrack123 said
11:32 PM Oct 31, 2014
Blue
and so it should be something we can pass on to our fellow nomads to save our viewers a few bucks... !!
NO, NO
If such a sticky exists it should show all the options with their advantages & disadvantages & errors/ incorrect info removed
NOT just a one eyed" this is what I have or done so it must be best!!!
Or something found on" Face Book", or some other" I did it this way"
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 11:52:58 PM
aussie_paul said
11:38 PM Oct 31, 2014
Blue said..
RE "mostly.. they don't exist anymore nor should that circuit that he put forward that would destroy a modern day electronic ignition system"
Maybe a better word Blue would have been could, instead of would.
Aussie Paul.
PeterD said
12:31 AM Nov 1, 2014
Well that's a bit rich. Blue canes me for wrong information in one thread and then posts the same solution on another thread. Be warned folks, this shows the value of Blue's advice. He does not seem to know what he is talking about.
The information in that diagram is what I presented to the auto electrician that did my work. I have two relays like both in the Dometic diagram and Blue's recommendation. One relay is energised by the accessories circuit for the battery charging line. The other is operated when the ignition switch is in the run position and is for the fridge feed. These relays have been operating for 6 years without blowing any of the logic circuitry under the bonnet
A word of warning regarding connecting things up in the engine bay of your tug, it is easy to cook something if you are not familiar with auto electrics. If you get an auto electrician to do the work then it is his responsibility to cover any damage. That is why they charge a lot more than a tradesmans wages to do the work. As well as the overheads he has to cover for his workshop he has to cover the insurance part of his work.
03_troopy said
04:04 AM Nov 1, 2014
Load of rubbish Blue, you're connecting straight to the ignition switch Run terminal the same as PeterD's circuit. Which, by the way, is as it's still done on current model vehicles. And provided you use a relay with spike suppression (as has been stated by PeterQ) be it resistor or preferrably diode suppression, you'll have no probs.
dorian said
04:10 AM Nov 1, 2014
The only thing I would like to add is that there could be a small ballast resistor between the ignition switch and the coil's positive terminal. Therefore I would connect to the switch side of the ballast rather than to the coil.
03_troopy said
04:24 AM Nov 1, 2014
If it has one The schematic referred to should probably not have had the coil in it to save confusion, especially if you have a diesel.
wasn_me said
08:16 AM Nov 1, 2014
Redarc SB112 voltage sensitive relay is available for $106. Why would you stuff around trying to wire into the vehicle system, when you can fit a 100 amp "smart" relay, that doesn't require any tapping into the vehicle system. You have the advantage of battery power not being drawn by accessories until engine is running & charge voltage is above 13.2 volts. (as previously stated)
I don't know if the 12 pin plug has a heavier pin & socket for auxiliaries. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to wire a fridge through a 7 pin flat plug. Just not good enough.
Cheers Pete
dorian said
08:28 AM Nov 1, 2014
I agree that the VSR is probably the best solution, but at $106 I'd be very tempted to make my own. Surely it can't consist of much more than a comparator with hysteresis, plus a transistor driver.
wasn_me said
09:03 AM Nov 1, 2014
dorian wrote:
I agree that the VSR is probably the best solution, but at $106 I'd be very tempted to make my own. Surely it can't consist of much more than a comparator with hysteresis, plus a transistor driver.
Woo Dorian, you're talking way above my head there. $106, (a good bottle of scotch, tank of fuel !!!!) I've been a heavy equipment maintenance fitter most of my working life & done a fair bit of auto electrical work. If we wired something, we would go into the store & select a wire that looked big enough for the job & never thought any more about it.
It's only since I've been doing a bit of work on rv's that I've started looking at wire size required for current draw & distance. Life's always a learning curve.
Once again our "friendly" forum is descending into chaos, name calling and downright bullying. OH and look.. the same protagonists.
Im off to do some research and see just how many threads have been closed due to you lot, then I will raise a formal complaint with Cindy, as your attitudes are NOT what this forum is about or needs.
OMG cant you people get a dose of NICE!!!!!!
A very pissed off Phil C
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 1st of November 2014 09:55:23 AM
PeterD said
10:01 AM Nov 1, 2014
wasn_me wrote:
1. Redarc SB112 voltage sensitive relay is available for $106. Why would you stuff around trying to wire into the vehicle system, when you can fit a 100 amp "smart" relay, that doesn't require any tapping into the vehicle system.
2. You have the advantage of battery power not being drawn by accessories until engine is running & charge voltage is above 13.2 volts. (as previously stated)
3. I don't know if the 12 pin plug has a heavier pin & socket for auxiliaries. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to wire a fridge through a 7 pin flat plug. Just not good enough.
1. With a difference or $106 Vs $6 I will take the relay every time.
2. If you use the accessories circuit in stead of the run circuit, it is disabled while the starter motor is in operation. Problem solved. Also you have the option of getting a little extra power into your battery late at night if you have flattened thebattery. I had a battery that dropped its guts whilst in WA. If I put the ignition switch on the accessories position for 20 minutes before going to bed I would get enough battery if we needed to get up in the night. It would have been too much trouble to achieve the same result with a VSR.
3. The switched on vanners know that the the small round 7 pin and flat 7 pin plugs will not carry fridge power if your wiring is heavy enough to poser the fridge efficiently. We just need to convince the van manufacturers an auto electricians of this (I educated another auto sparkie only last week.)
wasn_me said
12:04 PM Nov 1, 2014
PeterD wrote:
wasn_me wrote:
1. Redarc SB112 voltage sensitive relay is available for $106. Why would you stuff around trying to wire into the vehicle system, when you can fit a 100 amp "smart" relay, that doesn't require any tapping into the vehicle system.
2. You have the advantage of battery power not being drawn by accessories until engine is running & charge voltage is above 13.2 volts. (as previously stated)
3. I don't know if the 12 pin plug has a heavier pin & socket for auxiliaries. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to wire a fridge through a 7 pin flat plug. Just not good enough.
1. With a difference or $106 Vs $6 I will take the relay every time.
2. If you use the accessories circuit in stead of the run circuit, it is disabled while the starter motor is in operation. Problem solved. Also you have the option of getting a little extra power into your battery late at night if you have flattened thebattery. I had a battery that dropped its guts whilst in WA. If I put the ignition switch on the accessories position for 20 minutes before going to bed I would get enough battery if we needed to get up in the night. It would have been too much trouble to achieve the same result with a VSR.
3. The switched on vanners know that the the small round 7 pin and flat 7 pin plugs will not carry fridge power if your wiring is heavy enough to poser the fridge efficiently. We just need to convince the van manufacturers an auto electricians of this (I educated another auto sparkie only last week.)
1. Fair enough. I must admit I'm a sucker for gadgets. This is my hobby/ past time, I figure some guys spend a couple of hundred dollars on an afternoons golf, I blow my dollars on camping.
2. I never considered the difference between accessory circuit & ignition circuit. A good point. A mate has his fridge wired through a relay powered from the wiper motor (ignition on). I must point out the difference to him.
I'm a bit paranoid about using start battery for any other purpose, if I stop in a remote location for a leak I'll leave the car running. I've had a couple of start batteries fail after a long run & stopping (both had some age on them) ?????
3. Is the 12 pin plug any different. ( I've only ever used andersen plugs)
Cheers Pete
SnowT said
12:19 PM Nov 1, 2014
Phil C wrote:
Once again our "friendly" forum is descending into chaos, name calling and downright bullying. OH and look.. the same protagonists.
Im off to do some research and see just how many threads have been closed due to you lot, then I will raise a formal complaint with Cindy, as your attitudes are NOT what this forum is about or needs.
OMG cant you people get a dose of NICE!!!!!!
A very pissed off Phil C
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 1st of November 2014 09:55:23 AM
Phil from an " A " Grade Electrician.. I 'm not about to jump down your Throat.. But It does cause me to wonder WHY A DIESEL MECHANIC is talking anything about Electrical of any form..
I'm not happy...
Juergen
Phil C said
12:40 PM Nov 1, 2014
SnowT wrote:
Phil C wrote:
Once again our "friendly" forum is descending into chaos, name calling and downright bullying. OH and look.. the same protagonists.
Im off to do some research and see just how many threads have been closed due to you lot, then I will raise a formal complaint with Cindy, as your attitudes are NOT what this forum is about or needs.
OMG cant you people get a dose of NICE!!!!!!
A very pissed off Phil C
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 1st of November 2014 09:55:23 AM
Phil from an " A " Grade Electrician.. I 'm not about to jump down your Throat.. But It does cause me to wonder WHY A DIESEL MECHANIC is talking anything about Electrical of any form..
I'm not happy...
Juergen
Hi Juergen
My rant has little to do with the technical content and correctness of posts. It is about how some are treated on this forum. We are like a bunch of year 12s I use to teach, always at each others throats with who is right and who is wrong.
There has to be a better way of correcting mistakes and expressing your opinion without the personal attacks and negative banter (I would think it borders on bullying). Perhaps Im being too sensitive over this. I was bullied as a kid and hate, with intensity, the way some people treat others.
BTW from experience military technicians of any trade receive a well rounded training and are often expert in many disciplines. I was cross trained in radio, instruments and industrial electronics before I finished my tour of duty. So Im cant support a Diesel mechanic only playing with engines.
I do appreciate you not jumping down my neck, my mental health is taking a beating today already.
Im sorry youre not happy, neither am I.
dorian said
02:08 PM Nov 1, 2014
This is the kind of circuit that comes to mind. The component values need refinement to achieve the desired cutin and cutout voltages.
What is needed is a separate 'parent' section on this forum restricted to 'handy types' to vet and comment within the parent forum on the pro's and cons of suggestions/methods etc. This section would receive suggestions from people like Blue, then within the group they would discuss and amend/correct anything dodgy. Once the suggestion is lodged with the 'parent' section, only persons within this section can amend/correct/reject the suggestion. The 'parent section' could be viewed by others but they could not post a comment.
Once it's been vetted and approved it is then made a sticky....and no correspondence will be entered into.
The ex military types on this forum would be familiar with such a system - if you're a corporal and have a great idea you do not disseminate it till it's been vetted and approved by those higher up. Probably no credit for the idea will be attributed to the corporal.
'Handy types' would be people with lots of experience and a fair technical knowledge. Common sense and compassion would also be required. Pieces of paper count for something but they can also mean nothing.
Bottom line is that it is all too hard. A mate of mine used to say "I'll be in anything but a s##t sandwich" - I'm a bit the same and happy to go with the flow.
Good Luck.
PeterD said
02:16 PM Nov 1, 2014
wasn_me wrote:2. I never considered the difference between accessory circuit & ignition circuit. A good point. A mate has his fridge wired through a relay powered from the wiper motor (ignition on). I must point out the difference to him.
I'm a bit paranoid about using start battery for any other purpose, if I stop in a remote location for a leak I'll leave the car running. I've had a couple of start batteries fail after a long run & stopping (both had some age on them) ?????
3. Is the 12 pin plug any different. ( I've only ever used andersen plugs)
Cheers Pete
2. There have been many threads on this and other forums asking where the best place to pick connect to a circuit controlled by the ignition switch. A favourite answer id the wiper motor power input, particularly on Toyotas.
If you have relay switched power feeds you don't have to worry about failing to start after a rest stop.
3. Have a look at the OP. You will see the different sized pins on the 12 pin connectors. Pins 1 - 7 are good for 7- 12 A depending on the manufacturer. Pins 8 - 12 will carry 30 - 35 A. The small round 7 pin connectors commonly used in WA have the same size pins as the flat 7 pin connectors.
Blue said
02:42 PM Nov 1, 2014
ok, if no ones got anything more constructive to add to this circuit, its 100% accurate, least two of us are using it in our cars already...
then I guess we could ask Cindy to remove the abusive, intimidating and dented ego posts and Stick it up as a sticky...
-- Edited by Blue on Saturday 1st of November 2014 02:43:32 PM
dorian said
03:03 PM Nov 1, 2014
My circuit is only a suggestion, and a very rough draft at that. I only intended to show that the principle is very simple. In fact there must be many ways to implement a "smart" relay.
SnowT said
03:21 PM Nov 1, 2014
phill Sorry it was not a Dig at you,,
It was Dig at the Diesel Mechanic..
- At least I know that You Are full qualified and have the experience behind you..
I have the A grade and the time in the field behind me..
- I also have over 6+ years of time spent doing various Different Courses related to My Trade Qualifications and Also time spent doing a series of Course related to Renewable energy..
- I'm very pedantic in the Research I do with regard to Solar and renewable as a general item to use in Life..
I have always admitted that I'm a dabbler in many fields of interest...
The one field where I have spent my money I have researched extensively..
SO PHIL C Sorry if I upset you..
Juergen
Blue said
03:55 PM Nov 1, 2014
im not sure why you are personally attacking anyone snowt, and what you think Diesel Mechanics actually do...
Auto electrical is a large part of our jobs as many many many breakdowns are due to electrical faults...
people were talking in your "sticky" thread about debating and being respectful to others knowledge whether they be a tradesman or enthusiast..
every single on of those people are now in here with verbal abuse, intimidation and bullying and trying to get the thread closed down..
you obviously have no problem with the above circuit diagram so you either agree that its 100% correct (which it is) or you don't understand it at all...
to be abusive for abusive sake is just extremely pitiful and any wonder why people are leaving the forum...
-- Edited by Blue on Saturday 1st of November 2014 03:56:32 PM
Hi guys..
I'd like to address a questions that keeps on revolving to the top of this forum to help you guys save hundreds of dollars..
a lot of you guys do have the smarts to do this but just need a little help..
I know that this is raw, I tried to talk slower, it was off the cuff, but if you can understand what im saying then you'll save hundreds of dollars
please feel free to ask any questions..
ok, this is your basic relay circuit..
and this is an explanation of that circuit that will provide power to your vans fridge..
and remember.. this is only a 12v circuit.. your vans fridge has to be cold already... this is only to try and keep your fridge cold through a daily trip to your next stop.. it will NOT cool your fridge... only try to maintain already cold temperatures..
thankyou for listening..
HI
Now that looks like the same set up that was proposed, by PeterD & others in the now closed thread. that was claimed would destroy every thing [electronics, Alternater ETC}
It is still simply picking up an ignition switched line to supply the coil with the fridge connected by the contacts to the tug battery!
But as I posted on the now closed thread IT does have one big disadvantage
The fridge is turned on immmediately you turn the key to 'RUN",even before you start the starter.
If the battery is sick or low on capacity ,the fridge load [15 <25A] could be the straw that breaks the camel's back & all that is needed to prevent the starter from turningthe motor over
This can be an even bigger problem with deisels & the preheaters
It also does not act as a low voltage cut out ,while the ignition switch is "ON" the fridge will draw power,the engine does not have to be running.
I pointed that out in the closed thread & gave my preference to a VSR.[Voltage sensitive relay]
Does not cut the fridge in until the tug battery reaches around 13<13.2 V , turns fridge OFF if the voltage drops below around 12.5>12.6V depending on brand & model.
.
But the model # of the 3way fridge is equally important as many do have an inbuilt voltage sensor which shall be connected to the D+ terminal of the tug [or a similar point]
The correct operation & safety features depend on that connection with those models.
Depending on fridge model, MOST WILL COOL, not just hold while on 12v,IF,they are correctly installed
That means physically& electrically AND MOST ARE NOT
Very, very,few are wired with heavy enough cables from crank battery to fridge, resulting in excesive voltage drop & the fridge not getting its 'rated voltage['Min 12V]
even if only 1V is lost the fridge is only getting 84% of it's rated power
But Thanks for showing how to connect a common ignition controlled relay
ps
Using exactly the same set up ,with a higher rated [current] relay is commonly used for direct charging of VAN /auxilary batterries.but with the same disadvantages as posted above
Again A VSR is preferable
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 10:20:51 PM
Hi oldtrack..
this IS NOT the same circuit as in the closed thread that I warned of..
peter dee's circuit was jacking directly into the "ignition" circuit of a 1968 Datus 1200 special.. or something like that..
mostly.. they don't exist anymore nor should that circuit that he put forward that would destroy a modern day electronic ignition system...
this system that I have put forward, is 100% accurate, to todays electrical systems.. there is no question... 100%
This is the Forums first Sticky,
if they want to grow up and become part of the modern world and not seen as silly old farts in Caravans as we are today..
Cindy needs to recognise this and join forces with other nomad forums to become a greater power.. to push for more free camping.. to push for our rights as Nomads, to travel this land without the hindrances of capitalists trying to force us into there worthless caravan parks!!!
IF this is typical of the Stickys, then GOD help all the readers
THere is nothing wrong with the pics you have posted & yes the wiper line is ONE of the good points to pick up a line that is switched by the ignition switch
I have,from time to time used that point myself, purely because it was more convenient!!
But it is the verbal claims you make that are the problem.
IT is NO different to making ANY conection to the load side of the run position of an ignition switch
That is basically what PeterD showed
A line from the load side of the ignition switch to the coil.
t
RE "mostly.. they don't exist anymore nor should that circuit that he put forward that would destroy a modern day electronic ignition system"
Please explain HOW it could destroy modern electronic ignition systems???
AND quote"peter dee's circuit was jacking directly into the "ignition" circuit of a 1968 Datus 1200 special.. or something like that.."
What makes you think it is only relevent to that model vehicle??
It is typical of all coil/distributer type systems,. but that makes no difference in the end it is doing EXACTLY the same as your wiper connection
He is Still connecting to Run side of the ignition switch.
That is where the wipers/relays are connected.
He has connected NOTHING to the ignition system
He has simply used that terminal as being a convenient point to get a direct connection to the load side of the ignition switch when it is in the run position, in the engine compartment
Anyone with an ounce of electrical knowledge would see that
Would you have been happier if he simply moved that connection to the back of the ignition switch?
Even Google can lead those with only a little knowledge astray.
then another old saying
"A liitle knowledge can be dangerous"
I do hope that Cindy does have the stickys vetted by QUALIFIED persons before they are allowed on the forum otherwise many many people will be led up the garden path.
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 11:01:44 PM
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 11:24:49 PM
On modern day cars does the ignition load side of the switch also power the ECU?
Aussie Paul.
-- Edited by aussie_paul on Friday 31st of October 2014 10:58:04 PM
Regards
Paul
It does not matter what it powers .
If that common point can run the wipers, radio, ,.some lights window winders ,cigarette lighter socket etc, or THEIR operating relays, all those things that only come "on" with the ignition switch in the run position, it can certainly run an additional small relay coil.WITHOUT FRYING/ interfering with the"electronic" ignition system or any other system
but we should wait for Blue's explanation of why/ how it could.
One never knows, perhaps PeterD,myself & many other in the field have something to learn from Blue.
WE shall see!
PeterQ
-
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 11:47:40 PM
Understood Peter, that is how I imagined it would work. Just checking that there can be no interference with sensitive electronics from that point. Playing devils advocate here..Thanks.
Aussie Paul.
Excellent hako!!!
and so it should be something we can pass on to our fellow nomads to save our viewers a few bucks... !!
NO, NO
If such a sticky exists it should show all the options with their advantages & disadvantages & errors/ incorrect info removed
NOT just a one eyed" this is what I have or done so it must be best!!!
Or something found on" Face Book", or some other" I did it this way"
PeterQ
-- Edited by oldtrack123 on Friday 31st of October 2014 11:52:58 PM
Well that's a bit rich. Blue canes me for wrong information in one thread and then posts the same solution on another thread. Be warned folks, this shows the value of Blue's advice. He does not seem to know what he is talking about.
The information in that diagram is what I presented to the auto electrician that did my work. I have two relays like both in the Dometic diagram and Blue's recommendation. One relay is energised by the accessories circuit for the battery charging line. The other is operated when the ignition switch is in the run position and is for the fridge feed. These relays have been operating for 6 years without blowing any of the logic circuitry under the bonnet
A word of warning regarding connecting things up in the engine bay of your tug, it is easy to cook something if you are not familiar with auto electrics. If you get an auto electrician to do the work then it is his responsibility to cover any damage. That is why they charge a lot more than a tradesmans wages to do the work. As well as the overheads he has to cover for his workshop he has to cover the insurance part of his work.
Redarc SB112 voltage sensitive relay is available for $106. Why would you stuff around trying to wire into the vehicle system, when you can fit a 100 amp "smart" relay, that doesn't require any tapping into the vehicle system. You have the advantage of battery power not being drawn by accessories until engine is running & charge voltage is above 13.2 volts. (as previously stated)
I don't know if the 12 pin plug has a heavier pin & socket for auxiliaries. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to wire a fridge through a 7 pin flat plug. Just not good enough.
Cheers Pete
Woo Dorian, you're talking way above my head there. $106, (a good bottle of scotch, tank of fuel !!!!) I've been a heavy equipment maintenance fitter most of my working life & done a fair bit of auto electrical work. If we wired something, we would go into the store & select a wire that looked big enough for the job & never thought any more about it.
It's only since I've been doing a bit of work on rv's that I've started looking at wire size required for current draw & distance. Life's always a learning curve.
Cheers Pete
Once again our "friendly" forum is descending into chaos, name calling and downright bullying. OH and look.. the same protagonists.
Im off to do some research and see just how many threads have been closed due to you lot, then I will raise a formal complaint with Cindy, as your attitudes are NOT what this forum is about or needs.
OMG cant you people get a dose of NICE!!!!!!
A very pissed off Phil C
-- Edited by Phil C on Saturday 1st of November 2014 09:55:23 AM
1. With a difference or $106 Vs $6 I will take the relay every time.
2. If you use the accessories circuit in stead of the run circuit, it is disabled while the starter motor is in operation. Problem solved. Also you have the option of getting a little extra power into your battery late at night if you have flattened thebattery. I had a battery that dropped its guts whilst in WA. If I put the ignition switch on the accessories position for 20 minutes before going to bed I would get enough battery if we needed to get up in the night. It would have been too much trouble to achieve the same result with a VSR.
3. The switched on vanners know that the the small round 7 pin and flat 7 pin plugs will not carry fridge power if your wiring is heavy enough to poser the fridge efficiently. We just need to convince the van manufacturers an auto electricians of this (I educated another auto sparkie only last week.)
1. Fair enough. I must admit I'm a sucker for gadgets. This is my hobby/ past time, I figure some guys spend a couple of hundred dollars on an afternoons golf, I blow my dollars on camping.
2. I never considered the difference between accessory circuit & ignition circuit. A good point. A mate has his fridge wired through a relay powered from the wiper motor (ignition on). I must point out the difference to him.
I'm a bit paranoid about using start battery for any other purpose, if I stop in a remote location for a leak I'll leave the car running. I've had a couple of start batteries fail after a long run & stopping (both had some age on them) ?????
3. Is the 12 pin plug any different. ( I've only ever used andersen plugs)
Cheers Pete
Phil from an " A " Grade Electrician.. I 'm not about to jump down your Throat.. But It does cause me to wonder WHY A DIESEL MECHANIC is talking anything about Electrical of any form..
I'm not happy...
Juergen
Hi Juergen
My rant has little to do with the technical content and correctness of posts. It is about how some are treated on this forum. We are like a bunch of year 12s I use to teach, always at each others throats with who is right and who is wrong.
There has to be a better way of correcting mistakes and expressing your opinion without the personal attacks and negative banter (I would think it borders on bullying). Perhaps Im being too sensitive over this. I was bullied as a kid and hate, with intensity, the way some people treat others.
BTW from experience military technicians of any trade receive a well rounded training and are often expert in many disciplines. I was cross trained in radio, instruments and industrial electronics before I finished my tour of duty. So Im cant support a Diesel mechanic only playing with engines.
I do appreciate you not jumping down my neck, my mental health is taking a beating today already.
Im sorry youre not happy, neither am I.
This is the kind of circuit that comes to mind. The component values need refinement to achieve the desired cutin and cutout voltages.
Acc + | .-. | | Acc | | + '-' | | | Acc +----+ ___|__ + | | | )|| | | Zener z | D1 - )|| | relay | 6V8 A | ^ )|| \ .-. | | |_____)|| | | | +---------+ === | IC1b | | | | | GND | | '-' | | | |\| | | | |\| | +--|-\ ___ |/ | +---|-\ | ___ | >--+----|___|----| Q1 | | >--+----|___|-+--|+/ | |> +--------|+/ | |/| | | | |/| 22K | | | | | ___ | === .-. IC1a +--|___|-+ GND | | | | 1M '-' | | === GNDOnce it's been vetted and approved it is then made a sticky....and no correspondence will be entered into.
The ex military types on this forum would be familiar with such a system - if you're a corporal and have a great idea you do not disseminate it till it's been vetted and approved by those higher up. Probably no credit for the idea will be attributed to the corporal.
'Handy types' would be people with lots of experience and a fair technical knowledge. Common sense and compassion would also be required. Pieces of paper count for something but they can also mean nothing.
Bottom line is that it is all too hard. A mate of mine used to say "I'll be in anything but a s##t sandwich" - I'm a bit the same and happy to go with the flow.
Good Luck.
2. There have been many threads on this and other forums asking where the best place to pick connect to a circuit controlled by the ignition switch. A favourite answer id the wiper motor power input, particularly on Toyotas.
If you have relay switched power feeds you don't have to worry about failing to start after a rest stop.
3. Have a look at the OP. You will see the different sized pins on the 12 pin connectors. Pins 1 - 7 are good for 7- 12 A depending on the manufacturer. Pins 8 - 12 will carry 30 - 35 A. The small round 7 pin connectors commonly used in WA have the same size pins as the flat 7 pin connectors.
ok, if no ones got anything more constructive to add to this circuit, its 100% accurate, least two of us are using it in our cars already...
then I guess we could ask Cindy to remove the abusive, intimidating and dented ego posts and Stick it up as a sticky...
-- Edited by Blue on Saturday 1st of November 2014 02:43:32 PM
phill Sorry it was not a Dig at you,,
It was Dig at the Diesel Mechanic..
- At least I know that You Are full qualified and have the experience behind you..
I have the A grade and the time in the field behind me..
- I also have over 6+ years of time spent doing various Different Courses related to My Trade Qualifications and Also time spent doing a series of Course related to Renewable energy..
- I'm very pedantic in the Research I do with regard to Solar and renewable as a general item to use in Life..
I have always admitted that I'm a dabbler in many fields of interest...
The one field where I have spent my money I have researched extensively..
SO PHIL C Sorry if I upset you..
Juergen
im not sure why you are personally attacking anyone snowt, and what you think Diesel Mechanics actually do...
Auto electrical is a large part of our jobs as many many many breakdowns are due to electrical faults...
people were talking in your "sticky" thread about debating and being respectful to others knowledge whether they be a tradesman or enthusiast..
every single on of those people are now in here with verbal abuse, intimidation and bullying and trying to get the thread closed down..
you obviously have no problem with the above circuit diagram so you either agree that its 100% correct (which it is) or you don't understand it at all...
to be abusive for abusive sake is just extremely pitiful and any wonder why people are leaving the forum...
-- Edited by Blue on Saturday 1st of November 2014 03:56:32 PM